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  • #21
    Originally posted by Brian PieGuy View Post

    But there is actually evidence that the threat of outbreak is exaggerated. In the debate lounge, you posted this article explaining how people were exaggerating the threat for politically charged reasons. And now you're saying the opposite in the main forum.

    Perhaps I'm arguing from ignorance, as you suggest, but then again, I'm just reposting an article you put up🤷‍♂️
    Love it Brian!!!!!! Good find.
    "And yes, we implore EVERYBODY to follow the park rules. Having off-ride footage is great, but any still photo's or video's taken ON the coasters at SFMM are strictly against the rules. They are there for your (and everybody's) safety." "Six Flags doesn't allow ANY loose articles on their coasters, and they don't allow video taping on their coasters. " BUT, "​ This is not true. Six Flags does not allow ANY On-Ride video or pictures on the rides. The ONLY way is if you get explicit permission from Park Management." ???

    Comment


    • #22
      I think if people just used common sense we'd be out of this mask nonsense a lot quicker. There is strong evidence to support COVID having a very low transmission rate while outdoors, hence, no mask requirement outside. However, there is very strong evidence that it spreads significantly more easily indoors (Looking at you Space Mountain queue death tunnel). Since I'm vaxxed I don't have any real fears of getting COVID, I didn't really to begin with but even more so now.

      While waiting in line for Indy I had a parent of a young child turn around and yell at me for making fun of mask requirements outside, while indoors... wearing my mask... His exact words were "You got a problem with masks? I'm just trying to protect my kid from COVID!" so I calmly replied "So why did you bring him to a crowded theme park with a mix of vaxxed and unvaxxed people in the middle of a pandemic?"

      Common Sense everyone, please just use it. It'll save us a lot of trouble this holiday season.

      Comment


      • #23
        i feel like people think that just because something's open, it gives them the right to forget about masks and go back to how things were. we're never going to get out of this if people aren't going to be aware of their surroundings.

        Comment


        • #24
          Got all my shots.......get the boaster in Feb- 22
          I still wear a mask in public indoor and outdoor......
          We still in middle of a pandemic....Try play it safe.....the best I can
          ,nor matter were I'm at .
          Soaring like an EAGLE !

          Comment


          • #25
            I cannot believe how many people are still brainwashed by this covid BS.

            Comment


            • #26
              With this type of topic, I agree, it is more a matter of common sense and social care. Sadly some people see this as a matter of politics rather than public health, so nearly any response on this is likely going to offend someone(s) based on their political preferences.

              For myself and most of my family that are eligible, we’ve done our shots earlier this year and got the booster recently (I’ll admit, I felt relatively fine after my booster, but I knew a couple others that had a tougher initial reaction for about the first 12-24 hours before they felt better).

              My take is if/when I am outside in nature, with enough distance, or with those I know are vaxxed, I don’t wear a mask. But when I am inside a department store or high traffic area like Krogers on the weekend, I mask up out of respect to other shoppers and those that might not be vaxxed.

              To me, wearing a mask shouldn’t be a open invitation for a political debate.

              The only mask debate I welcome is if Disney won’t let me wear my ‘Fire Bob’ mask the next time I visit the Magic Kingdom or Epcot.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by TacAlert View Post

                One less person in the park then. It's always clearly been said, that if you don't feel comfortable, then stay home. But no masks are required outside at DL. Distancing isn't even required. And lo and behold, there have been no outbreaks at DL.
                Jaymi - my apologies on behalf of this person. The "Good riddance" spirit of this message hit me like a kick in the gut, and I didn't even post the question!

                This was a very appropriate question, I feel. There is nothing wrong with checking in with micechat regarding the current state of the park, and expressing regret and wistfulness that you won't be going back soon. You love something and have accepted you can't experience it for a while. I sympthize. Keep coming back and sharing your memories until you feel safe creating more! Don't let bullies get you down.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by nostalgic View Post

                  Jaymi - my apologies on behalf of this person. The "Good riddance" spirit of this message hit me like a kick in the gut, and I didn't even post the question!

                  This was a very appropriate question, I feel. There is nothing wrong with checking in with micechat regarding the current state of the park, and expressing regret and wistfulness that you won't be going back soon. You love something and have accepted you can't experience it for a while. I sympthize. Keep coming back and sharing your memories until you feel safe creating more! Don't let bullies get you down.
                  thank you for the support. i was just thinking about it and talking to friends about it when they asked if i was planning on going anytime soon. since i'm in Canada and i have to fly just to get to Disney. its more then being comfortable in the park, but having the anxiety of being on a plane with people who you don't know and not knowing where they've been and who've they've been with. it feels like the same way about being at Disney. people come from all over so you don't know who your standing beside. even with masks and vaccines, you never know. everyone's at risk no matter what you do and how safe your being.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Jaymi View Post

                    thank you for the support. i was just thinking about it and talking to friends about it when they asked if i was planning on going anytime soon. since i'm in Canada and i have to fly just to get to Disney. its more then being comfortable in the park, but having the anxiety of being on a plane with people who you don't know and not knowing where they've been and who've they've been with. it feels like the same way about being at Disney. people come from all over so you don't know who your standing beside. even with masks and vaccines, you never know. everyone's at risk no matter what you do and how safe your being.
                    Just let you know-You also have my support, and want you to know!
                    I have anxiety attack also...so I know what saying......

                    TRY to use wisdom....that you have , and do best as you can ....One Day at a Time
                    Nor Matter it is social care or hoping a transportation(such as a plane)
                    and TRY be Safe ,matter what.....When you feel Comfortable !
                    Again you have
                    support from me and from others.......

                    Originally posted by nostalgic View Post

                    Keep coming back and sharing your memories until you feel safe creating more! Don't let bullies get you down.
                    I agree my Friend .......
                    And HAPPY THANKSGIVING
                    Last edited by Eagleman; 11-25-2021, 08:41 PM.
                    Soaring like an EAGLE !

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by nostalgic View Post

                      Jaymi - my apologies on behalf of this person. The "Good riddance" spirit of this message hit me like a kick in the gut, and I didn't even post the question!

                      This was a very appropriate question, I feel. There is nothing wrong with checking in with micechat regarding the current state of the park, and expressing regret and wistfulness that you won't be going back soon. You love something and have accepted you can't experience it for a while. I sympthize. Keep coming back and sharing your memories until you feel safe creating more! Don't let bullies get you down.
                      You don't need to apologize for me. I was not trying to be mean to the OP in any way. Just saying one less person in the park. I don't live in fear and go out and enjoy my life.
                      "And yes, we implore EVERYBODY to follow the park rules. Having off-ride footage is great, but any still photo's or video's taken ON the coasters at SFMM are strictly against the rules. They are there for your (and everybody's) safety." "Six Flags doesn't allow ANY loose articles on their coasters, and they don't allow video taping on their coasters. " BUT, "​ This is not true. Six Flags does not allow ANY On-Ride video or pictures on the rides. The ONLY way is if you get explicit permission from Park Management." ???

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by TacAlert View Post

                        One less person in the park then. It's always clearly been said, that if you don't feel comfortable, then stay home. But no masks are required outside at DL. Distancing isn't even required. And lo and behold, there have been no outbreaks at DL.
                        I love seeing ignorant posts like yours. You add NOTHING to the discussion and concerns the poster had.

                        That said: Other posts here are helpful. I personally didn't know the cast members were asking people to fill in all space in lines (meaning asking people to NOT distance themselves from others). And right now there is NO way to know if cases are traced back to Disneyland since only 5% of people per the CDC answer the tracing questions accurately.

                        Personally I'm staying away from large crowds where the employees ask them to NOT distance. But Downtown Disney is OK as it IS practised there.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by MychaelP View Post

                          I love seeing ignorant posts like yours. You add NOTHING to the discussion and concerns the poster had.

                          That said: Other posts here are helpful. I personally didn't know the cast members were asking people to fill in all space in lines (meaning asking people to NOT distance themselves from others). And right now there is NO way to know if cases are traced back to Disneyland since only 5% of people per the CDC answer the tracing questions accurately.

                          Personally I'm staying away from large crowds where the employees ask them to NOT distance. But Downtown Disney is OK as it IS practised there.
                          It is practiced on DTD? Ok, if you say so. But again, I don't live in fear. Sorry you do. I hope you can overcome it soon. Not going to get in a COVID argument. Just saying live life how you have to. Don't try to convince others to follow your lead and allow each person to live how they want. Take care. Be safe.
                          "And yes, we implore EVERYBODY to follow the park rules. Having off-ride footage is great, but any still photo's or video's taken ON the coasters at SFMM are strictly against the rules. They are there for your (and everybody's) safety." "Six Flags doesn't allow ANY loose articles on their coasters, and they don't allow video taping on their coasters. " BUT, "​ This is not true. Six Flags does not allow ANY On-Ride video or pictures on the rides. The ONLY way is if you get explicit permission from Park Management." ???

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by nostalgic View Post

                            Jaymi - my apologies on behalf of this person. The "Good riddance" spirit of this message hit me like a kick in the gut, and I didn't even post the question!
                            Seconded -- this person is either a conscious troll or else not capable of behaving in a way distinguishable from a conscious troll, best to just ignore if possible.

                            Originally posted by nostalgic View Post
                            This was a very appropriate question, I feel. There is nothing wrong with checking in with micechat regarding the current state of the park, and expressing regret and wistfulness that you won't be going back soon. You love something and have accepted you can't experience it for a while. I sympthize. Keep coming back and sharing your memories until you feel safe creating more! Don't let bullies get you down.
                            Yes. My experience has been that most people at DLR do the kind and responsible thing and follow mask guidelines, but these only apply in indoor spaces, and there are still plenty of people (I know the type, you know the type, we all know the type) who either take it off as soon as a CM is not looking or do the wear-it-like-a-chinstrap maneuver, so if this is a deal breaker for you, or at least would noticeably negatively impact your experience, I would avoid DLR for a while.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Fenix View Post
                              For those interested in the latest mask science, I highly recommend reading this excellent 60+ page summary of what we know at this time: https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/...g-paper-64.pdf
                              It seems just a tad bit underhanded to post this without the context that the Cato Institute, who put together and published this study, is an organization which exists entirely and explicitly to promote a very specific political agenda:

                              Originally posted by WIKIPEDIA
                              The Cato Institute is an American libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C. It was founded in 1977 by Ed Crane, Murray Rothbard, and Charles Koch,[6] chairman of the board and chief executive officer of Koch Industries
                              If you're going to post stuff from a very, very partisan sources, you should at least be explicit about that being what you're doing, and not dress it up as objective, apolitical science.

                              To the larger topic at hand: while the science behind masking is not yet complete and there is always room for doubt when it comes to in-progress science, there is a wealth of large-scale, respectable studies and literature reviews from people and organizations whose objective and qualifications are primarily medical, not political, to the effect that masks and masking requirements do work. For example:

                              https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...d-spread-study

                              https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

                              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7883189/

                              One imagines this is why masking is recommended by institutions that exist to save lives, not to promote a political agenda:

                              https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...k/art-20485449

                              And one imagines that this is part of the reason why there is such a disparity in COVID death percentages among communities with different political outlooks (as masking has obviously become very political), though obviously other factors like vaccine hesitancy are at play as well:

                              https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/b...cinations.html

                              This doesn't mean that there is no data pointing in the other direction, but at least as far as I am concerned the difference in quantity and quality is enough that the only way to support an anti-mask point of view is to be really selective about cherry picking which data and which sources you choose to look at. Even the Cato study doesn't conclude that masking isn't a good idea, it only concludes (or more accurately suggests in a pointed way) that it's not a good idea if the choice is between masking and other measures such as getting vaccinated, which is very obviously a false dichotomy and underscores the political priorities of the institution..

                              Comment


                              • #35

                                ^ BasilOregano's posts are spot-on. In addition, there's this:


                                CNBC: WHO says fully vaccinated should wear masks and physically distance as Covid infections surge

                                The World Health Organization is urging the public to practice Covid mitigation tactics – including masking and distancing – regardless of vaccination status as cases surge across Europe heading into the holiday season.

                                Some countries and communities have been lured into a “false sense of security” that the pandemic’s over and the vaccinated are fully protected against Covid, WHO Director-General Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus told reporters during an update Wednesday in Geneva.

                                He noted that Covid vaccines “save lives” and lower the risk of severe disease and death, but the vaccinated can still contract and spread the virus as social mixing returns to pre-pandemic levels.

                                “Even if you’re vaccinated, continue to take precautions to prevent becoming infected yourself, and to infecting someone else who could die,” Tedros said. “That means wearing a mask, maintaining distance, avoiding crowds and meeting others outside if you can, or in a well-ventilated space inside.”


                                "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                designed to appeal to everyone."

                                - Walt Disney

                                "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                - Michael Eisner

                                "It's very symbiotic."
                                - Bob Chapek

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                                  “Even if you’re vaccinated, continue to take precautions to prevent becoming infected yourself, and to infecting someone else who could die,” Tedros said. “That means wearing a mask, maintaining distance, avoiding crowds and meeting others outside if you can, or in a well-ventilated space inside.”[/I]
                                  And this what I do.....best as I can......agree

                                  Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by BasilOregano View Post

                                    It seems just a tad bit underhanded to post this without the context that the Cato Institute, who put together and published this study, is an organization which exists entirely and explicitly to promote a very specific political agenda:

                                    If you're going to post stuff from a very, very partisan sources, you should at least be explicit about that being what you're doing, and not dress it up as objective, apolitical science.
                                    The review of the current evidence surrounding masks I shared is absolutely objective, apolitical science. The main author, Dr. Vinay Prasad, is as sharp and balanced as they come. The CIDRAP summary shared very similar information, just not nearly as comprehensive. 58 citations vs 371.

                                    You linked the Yale/Stanford Bangladesh RCT mask study. Yes, that is considered one of the highest quality & largest mask studies we have to date. It has been reported as definitive proof that masks work ("Large Study Confirms Masks Work..."). You're aware that cloth masks failed in the study right? They had no statistically significant benefit and the study participants were wearing higher quality cloth masks than most people wear. The authors released the underlying data to that study just this week. In a study with over 342,000 participants, apparently there was a difference of only 20 cases in the mask vs control groups (2 cloth / 18 surgical)! Clearly when you look at such a tiny effect size, it seems the conclusions made from that study may need to be revisited along with the headlines to many articles. (this data came out after Prasad's review) - http://www.argmin.net/2021/11/23/mask-rct-revisited/

                                    The other studies you shared were from January 2021, and likely every study they referenced is also covered by Prasad's report (most I checked were). I found Prasad's summary very balanced and objective. To suggest he's promoting a political agenda in this review is nonsense I'm sorry. One of his specialties is the appraisal of medical evidence. If he has any agenda, it's to tell the truth to people. He's not going to overstate the evidence.

                                    Original post:
                                    "i've seen recent videos of people at Disneyland and i see that a lot of people are not wearing masks even when they literally standing right next to someone. are masks not unforced at any point? if i want to feel comfortable being at the park, i want to be sure that the people around me are staying safe."

                                    For someone concerned about COVID, I hope you see the data to support cloth masking is relatively low quality. Do not let your guard down and feel safe just because you see people in Disney cloth masks. If you're concerned about protecting yourself, definitely upgrade your mask and keep your distance. With as transmissible as the virus has become, I would consider someone with a cloth mask not much different than someone wearing no mask at all.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Fenix View Post

                                      The review of the current evidence surrounding masks I shared is absolutely objective, apolitical science. The main author, Dr. Vinay Prasad, is as sharp and balanced as they come.
                                      Originally posted by Fenix View Post
                                      I found Prasad's summary very balanced and objective. To suggest he's promoting a political agenda in this review is nonsense I'm sorry. One of his specialties is the appraisal of medical evidence. If he has any agenda, it's to tell the truth to people. He's not going to overstate the evidence.
                                      Back in the real world, Vinay Prasad is a "professional contrarian" who most recently made headlines for comparing the COVID masking policies to Nazi Germany and suggesting that they may be groundwork for fascism in the United States, which lead to his widespread condemnation as a complete clown from both the medical and historian expert community. In his spare time he maintains a Twitter account where he, a person with no background in pediatrics, apparently encourages parents to disregard the advice of the American Academy of Pediatricians when it comes to their child's health, and block the heck out of actual pediatricians who tell him he has no idea what he's talking about. He also runs what's essentially a soft COVID-truther Youtube channel and substack, both popular in right-wing anti-mask, conspiracy circles, and occasionally guests starring on various other right wing propaganda Youtube channels. So it's no surprise that the institution that published his study is the freaking Cato Institute, an institute founded by Charles Koch explicitly to push Charles Koch's political agenda, rather than an institution which is at least minimally devoted to actual medicine, all of which support the efficacy of masking.

                                      Only a complete fanatic or an exceptionally gullible idiot would find this to be 'balanced, objective, apolitical science.' Every or nearly every nationally or internationally recognized and respected scientific body with subject matter expertise agrees masking mandates are an effective and reasonable measure to take in the fact of the pandemic, as does the government of every or nearly every modern first world country to one extent or another, and yes, these assessments are both thorough and current. They also have the benefit of coming from the a consensus of serious scientists and experts actually working in the field, not a wanna-be Youtube celebrity oncologist. If you want to disregard all of this in favor of Dr Contrarian Who Tells Me What I Want To Hear and I Can Tell He's Really Smart Even Though I Don't Know Anything About Medicine or Public Health Myself, go for it, but don't come on here and try to pass this nonsense off as listening to the science.

                                      Originally posted by Fenix View Post
                                      You linked the Yale/Stanford Bangladesh RCT mask study. Yes, that is considered one of the highest quality & largest mask studies we have to date. It has been reported as definitive proof that masks work ("Large Study Confirms Masks Work..."). You're aware that cloth masks failed in the study right? They had no statistically significant benefit and the study participants were wearing higher quality cloth masks than most people wear. The authors released the underlying data to that study just this week. In a study with over 342,000 participants, apparently there was a difference of only 20 cases in the mask vs control groups (2 cloth / 18 surgical)! Clearly when you look at such a tiny effect size, it seems the conclusions made from that study may need to be revisited along with the headlines to many articles. (this data came out after Prasad's review) - http://www.argmin.net/2021/11/23/mask-rct-revisited/
                                      Cool, a single rando computer scientist with no public health or medicine background or qualifications has a personal blog that quibbles with the methodology of the study. I'm still going to go with the overwhelming consensus among actual experts, thanks.
                                      Last edited by BasilOregano; 11-27-2021, 02:34 PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        You have a masterful ad hominem attack style! Truly black belt level.

                                        He did not compare COVID masking to Nazi Germany. That's a complete misrepresentation of what he said, shame on you for spreading such nonsense. For anyone who values truth, his opinion article is here https://vinayprasadmdmph.substack.co...democracy-ends There's not a single mention of masking, you either didn't read it or you're lying. There's an 8 minute video at the bottom where he explains his opinion in his own words. Why not listen to him directly and draw your own opinion? Really shameful smear of him, uncalled for really.

                                        Yes you are correct he challenges the evidence and policy of masking young children. Guess what? So does the WHO, European CDC and UNICEF along with many countries around the world. Very few places find it appropriate to mask 2-5 year old children. How crazy, right wing, and contrarian of him to ask questions about this!

                                        No idea what we're even arguing about here. The evidence to support cloth masks is low quality, and their effectiveness is limited at best. People need better masks. Is this even debatable?

                                        You do realize cloth masks failed in the Bangladesh RCT right? 👍

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Fenix View Post
                                          You have a masterful ad hominem attack style! Truly black belt level.

                                          He did not compare COVID masking to Nazi Germany. That's a complete misrepresentation of what he said, shame on you for spreading such nonsense. For anyone who values truth, his opinion article is here https://vinayprasadmdmph.substack.co...democracy-ends There's not a single mention of masking, you either didn't read it or you're lying.
                                          OK sure, if you want to do a deep dive into his gibbering insanity, he doesn't directly compare masking and social distancing (which he euphemizes as "the use of force" and "severe restrictions on commerce and movement" in his article, because of course he does) to Third Reich, but rather to the conditions that lead to the Third Reich. More specifically, he predicts that the current COVID policies will be used as a predicate for a future politician to seize control of the government and destroy American democracy, just like Hitler did, and then he details an elaborate fantasy future which he completely made-up where this happens. You know, as any serious, apolitical scientist would do.

                                          Highlights include:


                                          The pandemic events of 2020-2021 outline a potential pathway for a future democratically elected President of the United States to systematically end democracy ...

                                          A future US president may declare that the crisis in the region from influenza is unprecedented. Too many children are dying, and hospitals are near capacity. Citing the lessons of COVID19—that if anything we acted too late—the President may call upon the governor to issue a shelter in place warning. A week later, citing a continued rise in case, and “non-compliance” of the local people, the President could order the national guard or army troops in to secure the region...

                                          A future leader can seize this opportunity for a forced takeover of media or social media companies. ..

                                          As elections approach, a future leader may announce that safety is a key concern and exigent circumstances call for exigent responses. As such, elections will be suspended, pending a safer time. ...

                                          Accordingly, further tracking of movement may be justified. A leader can ask or mandate citizens to carry apps on their phone tracking their location. Random spot checks (such as those faced by parolees) may be applied. Non-compliance can be treated with ankle monitors or imprisonment....

                                          A future leader may coerce states into deferring elections, and hand pick electors instead. And with that, the end of democracy will have begun....

                                          Indeed, this was the case with Germany in the years 1929-1939, where Hitler was given a chance at governing, the president subsequently died, a key general resigned after a scandal and the pathway to the Fuhrer was inevitable.
                                          All of this, including the Fuhrer, just because people were asked to put on a mask and try to socially distance during COVID!

                                          So, you know, a very reasonable and serious person. Not a complete clown or a right wing conspiracy theorist/fantasist at all, and definitely your go-to guy for an objective, nonpolitical, just-the-facts analysis of whether or not masks work. I can definitely see why you would take his word over the entire international scientific consensus. He's just so credible, and so objective, and so smart!

                                          Originally posted by Fenix View Post
                                          No idea what we're even arguing about here.
                                          That you presenting the findings of a completely out-there masks-and-social-distancing-will-lead-to-Hitler Youtube celebrity doctor, funded by a openly and extremely partisan institute, as "objective science" is very dishonest! If you're going to cite a political quack be honest that this what you are doing.
                                          Last edited by BasilOregano; 11-27-2021, 06:38 PM.

                                          Comment

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