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  • #21
    Originally posted by Karalora View Post
    But I would say the current steps taken by upper management demonstrate not merely an indifference to potentially losing the discerning guests, but a positive effort to drive them away.
    Yes, I think so -- though I'm sure management sees it as trading customers who want the real "Disney experience" (which is expensive and requires a lot of skill and effort to produce) versus customers who just want to see things branded with "their favorite IP" (which is incredibly cheap and easy to do if you already own the IP). I don't think it's a good idea, but I sort of cynically suspect it's the kind of bad idea that doesn't bite you in the rear until you are in it deep.

    Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post
    Iger's purchase of Star Wars and agreement with Marvel was a stroke of genius because it expanded the potential pool of consumers. The only problem is that those are very specific IPs and could trend downward at anytime.
    If they haven't already, to be honest.

    Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post
    It's inevitable, and I really wonder how Disney reacts when those Blue bayou reservations do likely start to fade a little.
    Yeah, you and me both...

    Comment


    • #22
      Disneyland feels different to me because of the construction going on at Toontown and the Tarzan Tree house being all boarded up. I was having lunch at the River Belle Terrance the other day and I had a nice spot outside to eat. Table was at the edge by POTC. And right in front of me was the boarded up tree house. Stuck out like a sore thumb. Totally killed the vibe .

      To me, its those things that make it feel slightly different. I understand that the CM sometimes aren't the friendliest. Or don't seem very helpful. I never judge them or come on her and bash them. I'm sure what ever they were/are going through, some of us have gone through something similar in our lives that was hard to brush off and put on a happy face...

      Comment


      • #23
        “Not the least hard thing to bear when they go from us, these quiet friends, is that they carry away with them so many years of our own lives.”

        DL Trips: '58, '59, '61, '65, '66, '67, '68x2, '69x2, '70x2, '71x2, '73x2, '74x2, '75x2, '76x2, '77, '78,x2, '79x2, '80x2, '81, '82, '83, '88, '89x3, '90x2, '91, '93, '94, '95x2, '96, '97, '98x4, '99, '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, '07x2, '08, '09x2, '10, '11, '13
        WDW Trips: '81
        EPCOT Trips: '93
        Tokyo DL Trips: '86

        Comment


        • #24

          ^ That is so beautiful. Brings a lump to the throat and a tear to the eye.
          "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
          it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
          together with every variety of recreation and fun,
          designed to appeal to everyone."

          - Walt Disney

          "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
          - Michael Eisner

          "It's very symbiotic."
          - Bob Chapek

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by mr wiggins View Post
            ^ that is so beautiful. Brings a lump to the throat and a tear to the eye.
            x2
            Soaring like an EAGLE !

            Comment


            • #26
              I was in DL today with my family, and noticed a lot of cast members being trained. We think there was recently a big hiring spree ahead of the holidays.
              Disney visits over the years:
              • Disneyland, December 2000 (plus Legoland)
              • Disneyland, Summer 2003 (plus Legoland, SeaWorld, San Diego Zoo, San Diego Model Railroad Museum, and Knott's Berry Farm)
              • Disneyland, December 26, 2004-January 2, 2005 (mom's 40th birthday at Plaza Inn; New Year's at Disneyland)
              • Disneyland, July 2005 (Pre-Disney Cruise visit)
              • Walt Disney World, December 15-25, 2006 (plus Kennedy Space Center)
              • Disneyland, August 2007
              • Disneyland, July 1-4, 2009
              • Disneyland, July 2011 (plus Universal Studios)
              • Disneyland, November 2011 (dad's 50th birthday)
              • Disneyland, June 2013
              • Walt Disney World, July-August 2013 (plus Universal CityWalk)
              • Disneyland, June 7-8 2014
              • Disneyland, December 27-31 2014 (mom's 50th birthday; my tenth visit)
              • Disneyland, Summer 2015 (plus Universal Studios)

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by linkeq2001 View Post
                ...As those two properties go so too does Disney go. What will be interesting to see moving forward is how the generation of streaming kids reacts to the parks and the Disney brand. It's going to be the first group of children that probably did not grow up on Disney movies, instead they grew up on Youtube and Netflix properties and shows. Disney+ is kind of late to the party, and while there have been lots of strong releases the stranglehold that Disney/Pixar had on childhood attention during the 90s and very early 2000s is long gone; there's just far more content out there. Moving forward I really wonder if the ubiquitous required childhood trip to Disneyland will still be a thing, and if it stops Disney will be in trouble.

                Iger's purchase of Star Wars and agreement with Marvel was a stroke of genius because it expanded the potential pool of consumers. The only problem is that those are very specific IPs and could trend downward at anytime.
                I don't really think investing in both Marvel and SW was as shaky a bet as some of the other strongest critics here seem to think.

                While Webslingers is maybe not the best theme park iteration of Spider Man, we are talking about a character introduced in 1962 (reminder: POTC opened 1967), as well as a character that has seen the release of 8 movies with 3 different actors in the past 20 years. Maybe not everyone thinks it's the best fit for Disney parks, but if one was tasked to pick a character outside of the traditional Disney canon to include in the parks, it's not that hard to see why Spider Man makes a lot of sense. Look, I like Indiana Jones, to the point of spending what many people would consider an absurd amount of money to get *the* hat from the original maker. But, setting aside the apples/oranges nature of the actual attractions - and timeline - in question; 'on paper,' if you present me with a character that has just concluded a film trilogy with no sequel in sight (Crystal Skull was not a thing in the early 90's), vs a character that has a decades long history in comics, TV, and film, I'm gonna think the latter is a safer bet for the park(s).

                Also of note, 3 of the top 10 grossing movies this year are Marvel movies. To the extent that folks are going back to theaters, Marvel movies continue to be a draw. Even in spite of the predictable commentary about how they're ruining cinema. I'm also a fan of westerns, so I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Marvel movies will retain popularity in perpetuity. But if nothing else, this will be the stuff that eventually becomes nostalgic for Millennials and onward.

                I'm a pretty unabashed SW fan and I probably carry a decent amount of bias, so feel free to take my comments with a grain of salt, but I would think SW is a safer bet than Marvel. Much has been said about how Disney has managed/mis-managed the franchise, particularly the last two films (though, Last Jedi is less controversial than the loudest section of the fandom would like you to believe). And to those people, I would point to Star Trek Nemesis. That poorly received film did cause studios to lose faith in the franchise, but in the end, it didn't kill the fan's desires to see those characters return (see: Picard), nor did it kill the franchise itself (see: the five Star Trek shows currently in production). Star Wars has just as much, if not more, cultural cache than Trek. To the point about younger generations not having seen much of the classic (and new classic) Disney films, I can only speculate, but SW has been much more present in the contemporary media environment. Particularly things like the animated shows on Disney xD.
                Restore Walt's Disneyland: bring back the Aluminum Hall of Fame!

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by BNSF1995 View Post
                  I was in DL today with my family, and noticed a lot of cast members being trained. We think there was recently a big hiring spree ahead of the holidays.
                  If one is lookg...there a lot of HIRE SIGNs around many Store's-Fast food-many other Business.
                  Look like good time ,to find a job...if one is looking IMO
                  Soaring like an EAGLE !

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    We were there all last week (Monday - Saturday), and didn't mobile order anything. Not pizza planet, not dole whip, not corn dogs, not pacific wharf....not a thing! Standby by lines were open and available for everything, and they were even shorter than normal, since others were mobile ordering. Maybe we just got lucky all week, but we didn't need to mobile order at all. Not defending Disney or denying anyone's else experience, just sharing ours. I definitely noticed more standby by lines available than there were in early September. Maybe as staffing returns, they will be even more plentiful? Fingers crossed.

                    Comment


                    • #30

                      A post from the reader's comment section of today's MiceChat Disneyland Update:

                      Originally posted by DustySage
                      ...I'm increasingly concerned that Disney has forgotten that WDW and Disneyland are VERY different operations with completely different target audiences. The more they try to force WDW-style operations on Disneyland, the worse things will get. WDW isn't about magic, it's all about efficiency and profit. Disneyland was always about quality, entertainment, and recapturing a local demographic. But that's all changing RAPIDLY and not for the benefit of Disney's brand, nor the enjoyment of guests. Very, very worried about this new trajectory which can no longer be denied. While there are certainly some good things on the way... Genie, Magic Bands, Mobile everything, price increases/quantity decreases are not good and will eventually erode the brand and potentially damage Disney's reputation for decades to come. Short term profit gains can cause long term damaging effects.
                      "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                      it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                      together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                      designed to appeal to everyone."

                      - Walt Disney

                      "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                      - Michael Eisner

                      "It's very symbiotic."
                      - Bob Chapek

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        ^ I can't find the thread where I first made this comparison, so I'll do it again here: The difference between WDW and DL is akin to the difference between epic fantasy and urban fantasy. One subgenre focuses on vast alternate worlds that are not and never were Earth as we know it. The other focuses on cozy alternate worlds hidden right in plain sight in the world we are familiar with. You get to one sort of world by undertaking a long journey during which the author explains the salient points, whereas you might find the other by turning down an unassuming alley and crossing an invisible boundary...and even then, you haven't left the real world, you're just seeing a hidden side of it.

                        You couldn't do Lord of the Rings as urban fantasy--the plot and characters presume an epic fantasy setting. And Disneyland will never succeed as a vacation destination for world travelers in the same way that WDW does. It's an oasis of magic within the mundane, not a faraway fantasy kingdom. It inherently attracts a different sort of market.
                        Like this post? Read more like it at The Disneyland Dilettante!

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Karalora View Post
                          ^ I can't find the thread where I first made this comparison, so I'll do it again here: The difference between WDW and DL is akin to the difference between epic fantasy and urban fantasy. One subgenre focuses on vast alternate worlds that are not and never were Earth as we know it. The other focuses on cozy alternate worlds hidden right in plain sight in the world we are familiar with. You get to one sort of world by undertaking a long journey during which the author explains the salient points, whereas you might find the other by turning down an unassuming alley and crossing an invisible boundary...and even then, you haven't left the real world, you're just seeing a hidden side of it.

                          You couldn't do Lord of the Rings as urban fantasy--the plot and characters presume an epic fantasy setting. And Disneyland will never succeed as a vacation destination for world travelers in the same way that WDW does. It's an oasis of magic within the mundane, not a faraway fantasy kingdom. It inherently attracts a different sort of market.
                          Well said! It is becoming increasingly obvious that Chapek's management regime is ignorant of (and/or dismissive of) the differences.

                          "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                          it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                          together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                          designed to appeal to everyone."

                          - Walt Disney

                          "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                          - Michael Eisner

                          "It's very symbiotic."
                          - Bob Chapek

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                            A post from the reader's comment section of today's MiceChat Disneyland Update:

                            Originally posted by DustySage

                            ...I'm increasingly concerned that Disney has forgotten that WDW and Disneyland are VERY different operations with completely different target audiences. The more they try to force WDW-style operations on Disneyland, the worse things will get. WDW isn't about magic, it's all about efficiency and profit. Disneyland was always about quality, entertainment, and recapturing a local demographic. But that's all changing RAPIDLY and not for the benefit of Disney's brand, nor the enjoyment of guests. Very, very worried about this new trajectory which can no longer be denied. While there are certainly some good things on the way... Genie, Magic Bands, Mobile everything, price increases/quantity decreases are not good and will eventually erode the brand and potentially damage Disney's reputation for decades to come. Short term profit gains can cause long term damaging effects.

                            I Fully AGREE

                            Soaring like an EAGLE !

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              It's not new. It started when they built DCA and let Tomorrowland go to pot. The "Disneyland Resort" is a mistake. It is unfortunate that the park is owned by a massive publicly held corporation.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by JLee1226 View Post

                                ,,, Spider Man, we are talking about a character introduced in 1962 (reminder: POTC opened 1967)....

                                ....And to those people, I would point to Star Trek Nemesis. That poorly received film did cause studios to lose faith in the franchise, but in the end, it didn't kill the fan's desires to see those characters return (see: Picard), nor did it kill the franchise itself (see: the five Star Trek shows currently in production)....
                                I don't have much to add, just that ...I LOVED Nemesis!!!! Just because I was sad that Data had to die, doesn't mean I couldn't still love it. Fans are fans, they're going to want to get their "fix". I, too, think Star Wars was a good bet for the parks, but they messed up with not giving the majority of casual fans what they want, which is Vadar, storm troopers, Chewbacca, Han Solo, the 'droids. Trying to make a realistic or canon-accurate "land" was pfffft!!!! (I am blowing a raspberry) No fun! boooo!!

                                I grew up watching the original Spider Man TV cartoons, (in reruns) and that is the ONLY Marvel character I knew anything about. I technically had heard of Captain America, but none of the others. More power and credit to the writers and filmmakers that I now feel compelled to watch every stinking Marvel movie that comes out. And they inevitably entertain me! Feige (Waititi, Favreau, etc) knows movies...

                                .... but whoever is running the parks does NOT know the parks. I never knew their names before MiceChat so I don't feel I can call them out by name. I do scratch my head about the decision to try to make the parks into malls and to .....well, do all the stuff we complain about.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  It's definitely disappointing that service continues to slip, but it's not at all unexpected. It's just no longer realistic to hire good people at the wages that Disney pays cast members. COVID has changed the labor market and created a massive backup of people who want to visit the parks so they're going to be packed for years to come in spite of the poor service. Disney will probably raise the wages a bit but not nearly enough to attract good people these days and regardless, the parks will be packed. There are so many people who still want to see Star Wars Land and Marvel Land that haven't yet it will be busy no matter how bad the service is. The smart thing that they've done for the last decade is continue to invest in improving the parks, that's paying off so much that it's making the service problems worse and but it won't really matter to most people. It's easy not to notice of you only visit every few years.
                                  Please check out my website, UncleBobDisneyGuy.com!

                                  Thanks for your support!

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Golden Zephyr View Post

                                    So true, and again I ask, why do people pay for this? (I say that as a former decade+ long Premium/Sig+ AP)

                                    I am astonished that people will pay money to be treated poorly

                                    I think if more people followed Eagleman Mr Wiggins and others advice, the company might listen.
                                    Yu mean the advice of two people o just bag on everything Chapek. And one of them who doesn't even go to Disneyland?

                                    I agree though that things are not the same. That is why I have not bought a pass.
                                    "And yes, we implore EVERYBODY to follow the park rules. Having off-ride footage is great, but any still photo's or video's taken ON the coasters at SFMM are strictly against the rules. They are there for your (and everybody's) safety." "Six Flags doesn't allow ANY loose articles on their coasters, and they don't allow video taping on their coasters. " BUT, "​ This is not true. Six Flags does not allow ANY On-Ride video or pictures on the rides. The ONLY way is if you get explicit permission from Park Management." ???

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Mr_IvanStark View Post
                                      Disneyland feels different to me because of the construction going on at Toontown and the Tarzan Tree house being all boarded up. I was having lunch at the River Belle Terrance the other day and I had a nice spot outside to eat. Table was at the edge by POTC. And right in front of me was the boarded up tree house. Stuck out like a sore thumb. Totally killed the vibe .

                                      To me, its those things that make it feel slightly different. I understand that the CM sometimes aren't the friendliest. Or don't seem very helpful. I never judge them or come on her and bash them. I'm sure what ever they were/are going through, some of us have gone through something similar in our lives that was hard to brush off and put on a happy face...
                                      Yeah, God forbid they actual refurb anything at the park. Sorry that happened to you.
                                      "And yes, we implore EVERYBODY to follow the park rules. Having off-ride footage is great, but any still photo's or video's taken ON the coasters at SFMM are strictly against the rules. They are there for your (and everybody's) safety." "Six Flags doesn't allow ANY loose articles on their coasters, and they don't allow video taping on their coasters. " BUT, "​ This is not true. Six Flags does not allow ANY On-Ride video or pictures on the rides. The ONLY way is if you get explicit permission from Park Management." ???

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by JLee1226 View Post

                                        I don't really think investing in both Marvel and SW was as shaky a bet as some of the other strongest critics here seem to think.
                                        Neither do I (though I'm sure I come off that way sometimes), I think it's more than those golden geese can't keep laying eggs forever and I'm not sure what happens to the company when they stop.

                                        And to be clear by "stop laying the golden eggs" I don't mean Marvel and Star Wars will outright lose money, I mean that they will start performing like 'regular' blockbusters, whereas Disney needs them to be more-than-regular blockbusters.

                                        Originally posted by JLee1226 View Post
                                        I'm a pretty unabashed SW fan and I probably carry a decent amount of bias, so feel free to take my comments with a grain of salt, but I would think SW is a safer bet than Marvel. Much has been said about how Disney has managed/mis-managed the franchise, particularly the last two films (though, Last Jedi is less controversial than the loudest section of the fandom would like you to believe). And to those people, I would point to Star Trek Nemesis. That poorly received film did cause studios to lose faith in the franchise, but in the end, it didn't kill the fan's desires to see those characters return (see: Picard), nor did it kill the franchise itself (see: the five Star Trek shows currently in production).
                                        Marvel has been performing great a lot longer than SW has, though. I think the future of Star Wars is unknowable, we'll just have to wait and see. For what's it's worth, I think the biggest hurdle is them being able to find original, exciting stories to tell that aren't just 'remixes' or 'updates' of what they've done before.

                                        I do agree that TLJ is less concerning than Rise of Skywalker; controversial or not TLJ was at least very much talked about and made a memorable impact. Maybe I'm letting my biases get the best of me here, but how many people actually remember anything that happened in Rise of Skywalker?


                                        Comment

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