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  • DsnyFvr
    replied
    Re: Setting up for the Third gate

    Originally posted by Jspider
    gate=park

    DCA is the second gate
    DCA is not a second gate..its waste of real estate !! Disney needs to build a decentsecond gate before they consider a third !!

    Leave a comment:


  • Disney Vault
    replied
    Re: Setting up for the Third gate

    Originally posted by JoeCool
    The third gate needs all the land possible...so does anyone think the Anaheim Garden Walk land which about 19 acres even land in Disney's hands?
    I wouldn't be surprised if Disney got that land. Then need to just give up on Garden Walk. Businesses don't want to build there because it just doesn't seem like a stable investment. It has been having problems for too long and that scares businesses away.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom319
    replied
    Re: Setting up for the Third gate

    Disney could do so much with the land they already have. Although a waterpark doesn't seem to popular on this thread I think its essential to making the park a multi day resort, and it would fit in perfectly in zone one. Not to mention all the flat ground parking around the existing hotels. As for more parking I'm for building another parking garage next to the existing one and consolidating all restort parking in to one area. Close the resort entrance on Harbor blvd. to expand DCA. Finally when the resort is fully functioning start with the The third gate at the strawberry fields, which has more than enough space for building a world class theme park.

    Leave a comment:


  • Spalding
    replied
    Re: Setting up for the Third gate

    Perhaps focus on DCA and attracting a decent crowd there before a third gate. This proposed third gate area seems far more complex than DCA was to build in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I think its a great idea, but the amount of money put into a third park would be enough to give DCA the attendance it was meant for. Why put fourth such an enormous effort for another park when there already is one that just needs a little more attention?

    As far as tunnels, this does not sound economically feasible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Baloo
    replied
    The third gate is not a dead subject. Although the first phase was pushed back from 2003, Disney continue to work on the expansion of this park. Permits have continualy been adquired and meeting with surrounding residents continued.

    Before the third park does get started the plans do require that the second parking structure be built. this parking structure will be buil on Disney way which will have a direct access road from the freeway. This parking structure will be connected to the now timon tram laoding area which will eventually be removed via a peoplemover style overhead transportation device. The new parking structure will also be connected south to the third gate main entrance. Sadly the large piece of land between DCA?Disneland and the third gate is supposed to be used for gardenwalk if it ever gets built. Hopefully it never does and Disney decides once again to purchase the land fo further hotel and entertainment district. This would leave the land where the third gate will be built just for the park. Plans as of right now have the land being used for a third gate and hotel. I would not mind this if it is built similiar as Paris and TDS and the hotel is used as an entrance gate/berm.

    I also expect Disney to start considering stating the gate within the next five years or so. DCA will continue to evolve during the construction of the third park and with the recovery of tourism Disney should be ready to finally fullfill its plan to fully transform the area into a resort with anothergate and third park.

    Leave a comment:


  • nsxdrift_89
    replied
    ok, this was posted before, but why not a EPCOT/DisneySea park. My idea to theme and market the two parks would be to start making subtle changes to DCa, slowly making it into WALT DISNEY'S AMERICA (Hollywoos, Yellowstone, The Eastern Boardwalks, etc.). During these changes, which would include new C/D/E ticket rides all over the park, construction would be progressing on the new park. THese new rides and changes in DCA would keep consumers and visitors satisfied while construction was progressing. Then the new park would be unveiled as DISNEY'S INTERNATIONAL ADVANTURE. It wouls include a world showcase and future world, combined with the DisneySea theming to create an experience for all people of all ages. Thats just my modest little idea, tell me what you think.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ride Warrior
    replied
    DCA is fastly becoming a joining of Disney and Pixar-based attractions. Even though it still goes by the name Disney's California Adventure, it is gradually becoming Disney-Pixar Studios. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they formally title it as such in the future.

    What? Disney and Pixar are breaking up. Well, all that I see is another big money maker, "Cars", that each of them are going to bankroll. Eisnerd's practically gone. Iger, Jobs and Lassiter are warming up to eachother. There's a good chance that they will announce a new working relationship shortly after Cars is marketed.

    I must confess that I would find the idea of a Disney-Lucasfilm Studios as well. DCA blows as a theme, and it's gotta go! Mark my words, Disney will keep adding to and changing this half-assed park until it becomes a full-fledged winner.

    A third gate is definitely on the horizon, and they may start constructing it as early as 2009 or 2010. Why give a care?...because it's liable to be a hybrid between Epcot / Disney Sea, essentially...with plenty of unique rides and attractions as well. Walt Disney had originally planned to build WDW in the Golden State. California got greedy (no breaks on taxes, permits, regulations, etc.) and blew it. Perhaps, the Disneyland Resort will become more than what Walt could have ever hoped for.

    Walt wanted Dineyland to keep growing because he realized that it would otherwise become a museum.
    Last edited by Ride Warrior; 06-13-2005, 11:17 AM.

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  • Jspider
    replied
    Originally posted by Athlonacon
    I think the question people need to ask before all others is "Why does Disneyland need another gate?" That's not supposed to be taken to mean it doesn't need one, it's just a question that I think a lot of people don't consider. Most people question what kind of park is needed or what it should be like, but if you take a step back there's a more important question.

    Disneyland was built because Walt wanted a park that adults could enjoy with their kids. There was a reason and a need for that park at the time. But California Adventure has shown us what a theme park looks like when it's opened for no other reason than to make money. Few (if any) people looked at Disneyland's old parking lot and mentioned, "Hey, you know what would go good here...". In other words, everyone seemed content with Disneyland by itself and no one seemed to want anything more outside the park. California Adventure is an answer to the question no one asked and it was motivated by nothing more than money.

    There is no need for another gate on Disneyland property because people don't leave Disneyland begging to go to another park. Walt Disney World was built from the ground up to be a destination resort so the parks are built accordingly: huge and not very intimate. Disneyland on the other hand has the unique honor of being built mostly by Walt Disney and feels a lot smaller and more special. It's not a place leaving you wanting more when you leave the gate.

    I think ultimately the "resort" mentality will kill Disneyland's uniqueness. Because the resort mentality is so new, Disneyland has not had a chance to be fully effected by it yet. But as the years and decades pass, and Disneyland starts to evolve into a pseudo-resort, the focus of the park will become different. If you look at Disney World in 1972, what did you think of back then? The Magic Kingdom...but now if you mention Disney World, you think of all 4 theme parks together. In time, Disneyland will mesh with California Adventure (or whatever it is called in the future) and will no longer have its own unique identity. Personally, I feel the *worst* thing we could do is open a 3rd gate next to the park.
    people didn't look at the parking lot and wonder what would go three but people have ALWAYS wondered what the next big adventure might be

    people may have not left Disneyland begging to go to another park but they did leave begging for another day at the magic kingdom people always want more they want another ride or a longer stay

    I dissagree if people didn't leave Disneyland wanting more then why would they ever come back? the whole reason I return again and again is because I DO want more because it's great and it's something you can't get anywere else

    yes Disneyland has more intricate detail and I want more of that too DCA has a largue group of themes specificaly for that it needs to accomplish in a single area things that WDW parks accomplish with a huge expanse of space in time DCA will grow just as smushed together as Disneyland is

    a third gate is the last gate we'll ever get and it's the last large expanse for the whole park for a while (well at least as long as an earthquake or some other sort of appocalipse doesn't whipe out all the urban developement around the park but somehow manages to miss the Parks themselves o_o)

    Disneyland will never be WDW it will be a different kind of resort experience and since the park itself is still going to be called "Disneyland" and not "the Magic Kingdom" I don't see how people will get confused Disneyland will always be Disneyland to them

    their is a desire for this especialy since not everyone can afford to travel accross the entire United States to go to WDW that often it's more practical for people from say Washington (like myself) to visit Disneyland once a year for our vacations and many would love to stay a couple more days at DIsneyland while experiencing all of California

    the consumers have been desireing a longer stay for a while I don't see why it should be denied they just need to do a better job in balancing out park offerings and developing a good system

    Disneyland will always have a on season and an off season

    Summers are for the Tourists and possibly a small bit of Christmas is too but Fall and Spring are deffinatly times when it's a locals park

    this allows it to keep itself up with high maintenance and gives us the benifits of both tourists parks and locals parks

    Leave a comment:


  • Athlonacon
    replied
    I think the question people need to ask before all others is "Why does Disneyland need another gate?" That's not supposed to be taken to mean it doesn't need one, it's just a question that I think a lot of people don't consider. Most people question what kind of park is needed or what it should be like, but if you take a step back there's a more important question.

    Disneyland was built because Walt wanted a park that adults could enjoy with their kids. There was a reason and a need for that park at the time. But California Adventure has shown us what a theme park looks like when it's opened for no other reason than to make money. Few (if any) people looked at Disneyland's old parking lot and mentioned, "Hey, you know what would go good here...". In other words, everyone seemed content with Disneyland by itself and no one seemed to want anything more outside the park. California Adventure is an answer to the question no one asked and it was motivated by nothing more than money.

    There is no need for another gate on Disneyland property because people don't leave Disneyland begging to go to another park. Walt Disney World was built from the ground up to be a destination resort so the parks are built accordingly: huge and not very intimate. Disneyland on the other hand has the unique honor of being built mostly by Walt Disney and feels a lot smaller and more special. It's not a place leaving you wanting more when you leave the gate.

    I think ultimately the "resort" mentality will kill Disneyland's uniqueness. Because the resort mentality is so new, Disneyland has not had a chance to be fully effected by it yet. But as the years and decades pass, and Disneyland starts to evolve into a pseudo-resort, the focus of the park will become different. If you look at Disney World in 1972, what did you think of back then? The Magic Kingdom...but now if you mention Disney World, you think of all 4 theme parks together. In time, Disneyland will mesh with California Adventure (or whatever it is called in the future) and will no longer have its own unique identity. Personally, I feel the *worst* thing we could do is open a 3rd gate next to the park.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jspider
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeCool
    The third gate needs all the land possible...so does anyone think the Anaheim Garden Walk land which about 19 acres even land in Disney's hands?
    right now I don't think so, it seems that the city itself is dedicated to opening it as a Garden Walk (almost as dedicated as the city was to paying for Disney's expansion)

    I do think that if it fails or if Disney can simply run Downtown Disney strategicaly to MAKE Garden Walk fail then Disney "could" claim the land

    Disney's stratagy would be simple, NOT build the third gate for a while so guests arn't enticed to go through Garden walk because it doesn't lead to anywere, and they continue to exapand DTD will lead buisnesses to want to open shop in Disney's location over a competitors and if Disney's location is better then Garden Walk that will hurt Garden Walk even more

    Leave a comment:


  • ah schucks
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeCool
    The third gate needs all the land possible...so does anyone think the Anaheim Garden Walk land which about 19 acres even land in Disney's hands?
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Dream on kid- the world needs more dreamers! *Does Grocho Marx impression

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeCool
    replied
    The third gate needs all the land possible...so does anyone think the Anaheim Garden Walk land which about 19 acres even land in Disney's hands?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jspider
    replied
    that's actualy a pretty good plan, basicaly takes some of the ideas already discusses here but focas's all the land on the parks

    the third gate deffinatly needs all the land possible though

    Leave a comment:


  • dshimel
    replied
    Originally posted by pyrateslife4me84
    I like your ideas, although they don't seem particularly practical. I think they should just have Harbor and Katella have tunnels under what you are proposing,
    Hmmm.. I see tunnels as WAY, WAY less practicle than moving the roads.

    By far, the number one issue with moving the road is the business that lose street access.... that problem occurs whether you tunnel or reroute....

    But that issue is resolved by the REAL issue. Billion(s)? of dollars to buy up all the current businesses along Harbor.


    The tunnel is WAY more expensive. I'm talking about 4 overpassess at a $3-4 million each and rerouting current surface streets... couple miles of roadway at $3-4 million a mile max. What, $30 million total construction cost.

    You're talking a couple miles a tunnel at a good $40 million a mile minimum.. PLUS rerouting water, gas, sewer, power, drainage.... And you're talking a MAJOR blind intersection of two major roadways, underground.

    This study says you can't even accruatly guess the prices:
    http://www.jacobssf.com/articles/Too%20Dangerous%20To%20Guestimate.pdf#search='unde rground%20highway%20construction%20cost'

    Boston burried a 3.5 mile long road in tunnel in downtown..... Guess the cost! $6.5 BILLION... Yes, that was a much more traveled road, and many more concerns about utilities in downtown Boston, but the issues are still there.

    My guess is that burring 2 miles of Harbor and over a mile of Katell would have to cost in the hundreds of millions... 10 times the cost of rerouting.... 1/10th the cost of similar length of roadway as in Boston.

    Leave a comment:


  • pyrateslife4me84
    replied
    I like your ideas, although they don't seem particularly practical. I think they should just have Harbor and Katella have tunnels under what you are proposing, and then just have exits that head right into parking garages that include a couple underground levels (they would feed into your large parking structure as well as a smaller one that the 5th hotel would necessitate). This would decrease any annoyances for locals, since the roads would still be where they always were, and it would allow Disney to expand right on top of the roads. Any problems that could occur due to evacuations if there were problems in the tunnels could be easily alleviated--the part of Katella that would go under your blue property for the 3rd gate, you could just have the water park and miniature golf north of the tunnel, with exits from the tunnel feeding right into the ticket booths for the water park, golf, and 3rd park (i.e. a 2nd Esplanade). For Harbor, have escape tunnels leading to the west in the section below the 3rd gate, and just have the parking garage for the new 5th hotel line the east side of Harbor under the new hotel, with exits there. Of course expand the monorail into a loop with a stop at the 4th resort with access to Paradise Pier (a new, large 2nd entrance), a stop at the 2nd esplanade, with access to the 5th resort, mini golf, water park, and 3rd gate, and a stop at the 6th hotel, with direct access to the original esplanade, as well (it would be a very quick walk). This would create a 5-station monorail system, very similar to WDW's Magic Kingdom loop. Transport from the 2nd Mickey and Friends Parking Garage would involve a moving walkway to the 6th Resort's monorail station, providing direct access to all other stations. I am envisioning a new monorail system similar to what Las Vegas now has, capable of transporting a lot of people quickly.

    Leave a comment:


  • ah schucks
    replied
    Dshimel- we have fiercly debated a lot of subjects but this plan is really pretty awesome. I like how you lay out a solid timeline, I suspect Disney managment have begun formulating something similar, or at least I would hope they have.

    As far as the road ways are concerned, I always kind of hoped that the city and Disneyland could share the exspense of actually burying the roads, build tunnels and or raise them up somehow, it would be pretty sweet if the roads were 20-40 feet up and you looked into DCA as you drove by. These suggestions have less chance of seeing the light of day then your suggestion of rerouting traffic.

    Anywho- looks good bud!-Tom

    Leave a comment:


  • dshimel
    replied
    MiceMan was kind enough to host my map of my dream DLR-2015.

    So, here we go:

    http://kidaftersunset.smugmug.com/gallery/439332


    Expand DTD north as planned, and add a fairly small DLH/DTD parking garage just North of DLH.

    Add another Moderate Priced resort (4th resort hotel) in the parking lot behind Paradise Pier, and another small parking garage for the new resort, PPH and GCH self-service.

    This woud all be complete late 2006/very early 2007 along with the opening of subs and something on PM tracks.

    2008: E-Ticket and D-ticket in Timon as a DCA expansion.

    2009: DCA gets new land with 3 or 4 C/D type attractions. 2010 we get the 6th and final (for a while) E-Ticket for DCA.

    2010: Major work starts on rerouting Harbor and katella around the resort.

    The intersection of Harbor and Katella is moved a block West and South. Harbor moves to Clemintine and Katella moves through the Strawberry patch and south of the Convention Center.

    I actually screwed up my map of where Harbor goes, but I'd already flattened it and couldn't undo. Harbor would go East of the new garage (under overpasses connecting the new garage then back to it's current course north of here I have the 6th hotel marked. (So pretend that the pink line that goes East/West between 3rd gate and 6th hotel/garage is actually north of the 6th hotel/garage..... even with Space Mt instead of Hyperion entrance)

    So....
    Going south on Harbor, Harbor bends left at Space Mountain, goes a bit over a quarter of a mile east to Clemintine where it bends back south. It passes west of, and has access to, the new parking garage. It continues South about a half mile where an overpasses lets you onto east-bound Katella without a light, or if you want south-bound Harbor or east-bound Katella, you continue south into the strawberry patch...

    West bound Katella goes up and over and merges in on the left of south bound Harbor.

    When we reach the back of the strawberry patch, Katella/Harbor turns west and travels 1/4 mile back to the the old Harbor route. Here the roads divide again, with Katella continuing now on the south side of the convention center. Past the convention center, it turns back north and resumes its old course.

    The point is to reroute the major roadways out from between the 2nd and 3rd gates. We can connect all the garages and parks and hotels and even the convention center and its hotels with trams and monorail(s) without ever having to cross over or under a real major roadway.

    This also requires major land purchases.....

    But, we open up HUGE chunks of now-connected land for a 3nd gate.... Even if they use a portion of this land for water park and mini-golf, there is still plenty of room for an awesome 3rd gate...

    The 3rd gate is isolated from neighborhoods a bit by Harbor/Katella being a buffer at the back of the strawberry patch. Local traffic is much eased by having overpasses instead of stop lights and slow moving tourists in crosswalks. The convention center feels much more "a part of" the resort.

    Okay, back on plan.

    2010-2012... major roadwork paid for by the city of Anaheim. Major demolition inside the new resort zone.

    2012: Construction of 3rd gate starts.

    2015: 3rd gate, 5th hotel, 2nd major garage open

    2015-2025, 3rd gate grows and 6th hotel is added as needed for demand.




    Okay, rip the plans apart.....
    Last edited by dshimel; 03-17-2005, 08:30 AM.

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  • michael eisner
    replied
    Your ideas will be forwarded

    Leave a comment:


  • Jspider
    replied
    Originally posted by dshimel
    As long as we're dreaming about a 3rd gate.....

    Can someone host a 1 meg JPG for me if I email it to you? My dream DLR 2015.... Probably about $5 billion, but WOW! Private message me if you can host my file.
    have you tried opening a photobucket account? (just curious)

    Leave a comment:


  • dshimel
    replied
    As long as we're dreaming about a 3rd gate.....

    Can someone host a 1 meg JPG for me if I email it to you? My dream DLR 2015.... Probably about $5 billion, but WOW! Private message me if you can host my file.

    Leave a comment:

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