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  • #81
    Originally posted by stovk View Post

    Although quite the dissertation, your valid point is way too far into the weeds. In respect to SW and Disney, 90% of the public consider Episodes IV, V, & VI as "Star Wars". Anything after that is pretty much supporting cast. When a Company announces "Star Wars Land" or a "Star Wars Hotel", people want to see Luke, Darth, Han Solo, R2-D2, etc. and that's the simple truth.

    It would be the same as announcing a "101 Dalmatians" Attraction, only to get some "Cruella" dark ride...sans Dalmatians.

    Leave the geeky Star Wars stuff to the Books and Comics. Just do Star Wars 101 at the Parks.
    I would like to see any sort of evidence that comes remotely close to showing "90% of the public" consider only the OT as "Star Wars." Among self selected Star Wars fans, there is not a statistically significant group of fans who only prefer the OT. From a dude who actually is a PhD:



    ...

    I came up with the name for each cluster by looking at the distribution for each film:
    • Prequel Skeptics. These fans love the original and sequel trilogies, with median ratings for each film being 8 or above, and they feel less warmly toward the prequel trilogy. However, they do not rate the prequels as negatively as the TLJ Disowners rate The Last Jedi, so I chose to call these fans only “skeptics” of the prequels.
    • Saga Lovers. These fans love everything, giving every movie a median score of at least 7. And while the prequels earn the lowest ratings in this cluster, Saga Lovers are still generally favorable toward them.
    • TLJ Disowners. These fans love the original trilogy (like the other clusters), but they feel middling toward the prequels and they are torn over The Force Awakens. This cluster’s defining characteristic, however, is just how poorly they rate The Last Jedi. The most popular response is 1—and the median is only 2. This is why I gave them the stronger word “disowners,” as opposed to the “skeptics” above.

    These were the three dominant clusters, according to the algorithm. But some readers might be surprised that there is no cluster of fans who only love the original trilogy. I tried forcing a fourth cluster (even though the optimal number was three), but, to my surprise, all this did was find a cluster we could call the “Super Saga Lovers,” where their scores for the prequel movies were even higher than the Saga Lovers above.

    Of course, this does not mean that people who only like the original trilogy and hate everything else aren’t out there. (I’m positive there are, and you might very well be one of them.) But we just don’t see this cluster of people among the thousands who took this survey. This is not a representative sample of every single person who has seen Star Wars, but it is a large snapshot of the fandom in 2019.
    Restore Walt's Disneyland: bring back the Aluminum Hall of Fame!

    Comment


    • #82
      Originally posted by JLee1226 View Post

      I would like to see any sort of evidence that comes remotely close to showing "90% of the public" consider only the OT as "Star Wars." Among self selected Star Wars fans, there is not a statistically significant group of fans who only prefer the OT. From a dude who actually is a PhD:
      The problem here is that "90% of the public" and "self-selected Star Wars fans" are not the same population. The group that is missing here is Disney parks fans. Some people who go to the Disney parks are Star Wars fans, some like Star Wars, but aren't really fans, and some couldn't care less about Star Wars. I think it's reasonable to ask how much should a new land in the Disney parks be focused on characters that appeal to self-selected Star Wars fans and how much should appeal to casual fans.

      Comment


      • #83
        Originally posted by stovk View Post

        Although quite the dissertation, your valid point is way too far into the weeds. In respect to SW and Disney, 90% of the public consider Episodes IV, V, & VI as "Star Wars". Anything after that is pretty much supporting cast. When a Company announces "Star Wars Land" or a "Star Wars Hotel", people want to see Luke, Darth, Han Solo, R2-D2, etc. and that's the simple truth.

        It would be the same as announcing a "101 Dalmatians" Attraction, only to get some "Cruella" dark ride...sans Dalmatians.

        Leave the geeky Star Wars stuff to the Books and Comics. Just do Star Wars 101 at the Parks.
        The simple truth is that Rise of the Resistance is popular even without the non-Disney characters. Earlier in this thread, someone who hated the ST professed that the ride was great. Thus, your point of “Star Wars 101” is completely invalidated with a real life example.

        Disney cares about money and people are paying top LL prices for the Disney trilogy ride.

        The cruiser so far doesn’t promise to be as engaging as ROTR. I don’t think shoving a Darth Vader meet and greet would satisfy those canceling their reservations.

        Most people want a good experience and don’t care about the whiny geeks war on Disney Star Wars.

        Comment


        • #84
          Originally posted by Jesser-pie View Post

          The simple truth is that Rise of the Resistance is popular even without the non-Disney characters. Earlier in this thread, someone who hated the ST professed that the ride was great. Thus, your point of “Star Wars 101” is completely invalidated with a real life example.

          Disney cares about money and people are paying top LL prices for the Disney trilogy ride.

          The cruiser so far doesn’t promise to be as engaging as ROTR. I don’t think shoving a Darth Vader meet and greet would satisfy those canceling their reservations.

          Most people want a good experience and don’t care about the whiny geeks war on Disney Star Wars.
          Adding the right characters can eke out some marginal improvement, but it's not going to dramatically change an already great experience. I'm less excited about Kylo Ren in Star Tours than I was when it was Darth Vader in the exact same scene, but at the end of the day I'd still probably give it about the same overall rating. The characters used in the rides are a small portion of the total experience. Changing out sequel trilogy characters for original trilogy on Rise is like changing the paint color on a Ferrari.

          Comment


          • #85
            Originally posted by JLee1226 View Post

            I would like to see any sort of evidence that comes remotely close to showing "90% of the public" consider only the OT as "Star Wars." Among self selected Star Wars fans, there is not a statistically significant group of fans who only prefer the OT. From a dude who actually is a PhD:
            I'm glad a someone with a PhD published what most of us SW fans know. I have no arguments with HIS point.

            It's not a preference, it's a perception. Your conflating "SW Fans" with "Park Guests" [sorry Co Foo , we must have been posting at the same time] and I am I'm talking about your average Guest. Not all Guests are steeped in the world of "Star Wars". It's a common misconception that people who are well versed in a topic, assume everyone else is.

            If Disney wants to bridge the gap between the OT, Prequels, and the Sequels, that's all fine. But they're doing a poor job of it and they're not reaching their average Guest effectively.

            That's why I said that when these things were announced, most people were thinking characters from OT. Nary one, I bet, said, "Oh yay! Can't wait to meet some non-descript-blue-looking-Kathleen-Kennedy-humanoid."

            :/

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            stovk
            Old School Disney
            Last edited by stovk; 01-05-2022, 09:58 AM.
            “Not the least hard thing to bear when they go from us, these quiet friends, is that they carry away with them so many years of our own lives.”

            DL Trips: '58, '59, '61, '65, '66, '67, '68x2, '69x2, '70x2, '71x2, '73x2, '74x2, '75x2, '76x2, '77, '78,x2, '79x2, '80x2, '81, '82, '83, '88, '89x3, '90x2, '91, '93, '94, '95x2, '96, '97, '98x4, '99, '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, '07x2, '08, '09x2, '10, '11, '13
            WDW Trips: '81
            EPCOT Trips: '93
            Tokyo DL Trips: '86

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by Jesser-pie View Post

              The simple truth is that Rise of the Resistance is popular even without the non-Disney characters. Earlier in this thread, someone who hated the ST professed that the ride was great. Thus, your point of “Star Wars 101” is completely invalidated with a real life example.

              Disney cares about money and people are paying top LL prices for the Disney trilogy ride.

              The cruiser so far doesn’t promise to be as engaging as ROTR. I don’t think shoving a Darth Vader meet and greet would satisfy those canceling their reservations.

              Most people want a good experience and don’t care about the whiny geeks war on Disney Star Wars.
              Valid point. That's why it was probably doomed from the start. It probably would be a success if they shoved in a Darth Vader meet-and-greet, but only if the concept wasn't developed so generic and amateurish.

              It's ironic, Disney is scampering for ca$h, but they are their own worst enemies. If they would develop something with quality (even if it costs more) they probably wouldn't be in this position.

              I wonder what the cost difference would be from spending more up-front, compared to lost revenue due to loss of sales? We'll probably never know. Like Tony Baxter said, "It's always more difficult to recover than it is to do the right thing at the beginning"

              “Not the least hard thing to bear when they go from us, these quiet friends, is that they carry away with them so many years of our own lives.”

              DL Trips: '58, '59, '61, '65, '66, '67, '68x2, '69x2, '70x2, '71x2, '73x2, '74x2, '75x2, '76x2, '77, '78,x2, '79x2, '80x2, '81, '82, '83, '88, '89x3, '90x2, '91, '93, '94, '95x2, '96, '97, '98x4, '99, '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, '07x2, '08, '09x2, '10, '11, '13
              WDW Trips: '81
              EPCOT Trips: '93
              Tokyo DL Trips: '86

              Comment


              • #87
                Originally posted by stovk View Post

                Valid point. That's why it was probably doomed from the start. It probably would be a success if they shoved in a Darth Vader meet-and-greet, but only if the concept wasn't developed so generic and amateurish.

                It's ironic, Disney is scampering for ca$h, but they are their own worst enemies. If they would develop something with quality (even if it costs more) they probably wouldn't be in this position.

                I wonder what the cost difference would be from spending more up-front, compared to lost revenue due to loss of sales? We'll probably never know. Like Tony Baxter said, "It's always more difficult to recover than it is to do the right thing at the beginning"
                You would think by now they would have learned for things like Hong Kong Disneyland and DCA to spend more to do it right first than spend even more to try to fix it. I think how absolutely cool the Galactic cruiser could have been, since we have mentioned Darth Vader, imagine Darth Vader and troopers walking through the halls of the star cruiser just a chance meeting as they are going to another area of the ship, but the issues I see is it feels like artificial activities and set up meet and greet rather than something authentic and they took ships quarters a little too far in their rooms and it looks way to cheap to justify the price point,
                BGood! It's not just my motto its my name!

                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by mickdaddy View Post

                  You would think by now they would have learned for things like Hong Kong Disneyland and DCA to spend more to do it right first than spend even more to try to fix it. I think how absolutely cool the Galactic cruiser could have been, since we have mentioned Darth Vader, imagine Darth Vader and troopers walking through the halls of the star cruiser just a chance meeting as they are going to another area of the ship, but the issues I see is it feels like artificial activities and set up meet and greet rather than something authentic and they took ships quarters a little too far in their rooms and it looks way to cheap to justify the price point,
                  Wouldn't that be awesome if your Dinner event got hijacked by the Empire? Guests getting interrogated? Luke Skywalker teaching the Lightsaber Training? Oh what could have been.
                  We need another Walt...and fast!

                  "It's always more difficult to recover than it is to do the right thing at the beginning" - Tony Baxter,
                  The Imagineering Story, Episode 4 "Hit or Miss"

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Originally posted by mickdaddy View Post

                    You would think by now they would have learned for things like Hong Kong Disneyland and DCA to spend more to do it right first than spend even more to try to fix it. I think how absolutely cool the Galactic cruiser could have been, since we have mentioned Darth Vader, imagine Darth Vader and troopers walking through the halls of the star cruiser just a chance meeting as they are going to another area of the ship, but the issues I see is it feels like artificial activities and set up meet and greet rather than something authentic and they took ships quarters a little too far in their rooms and it looks way to cheap to justify the price point,

                    I was intrigued by this project when I first heard about it and I imagined it would be expensive, but not outrageous. I mostly stopped tracking it or reading any updates after I heard about the cost. I'm not sure there is an actual set of experiences that I'd pay $5,000 for. The gap is so huge that it's hard to imagine exactly what it would be to justify $5,000. It's not going to be more actors with accurate costumes.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      It gets more interesting.

                      Why People Say They're Cancelling

                      "According to a thread on Reddit, a lot of people aren’t happy with what’s being offered, but particularly at the price point it’s being offered. One reddit user (who seemingly had not cancelled yet at the time he wrote on the site) summed up their feelings pretty concisely, noting:

                      'Absolutely cancelling. The price for this experience is STEEP, but we love Galaxy's Edge and figured they would be able to deliver. For 7k+ we get a few meals, alcoholic drinks aren't included, brought to Galaxy's edge early in the AM and hope that Rise isn't broken down, no lightsaber building, no droid building, the saber training looks, meh from what they've released, and the bridge training just doesn't look like a Star wars experience. I can't fathom where all my money is going for what's included. I feel like we got scammed by Disney here. Not sure if we'll be visiting Batuu and time soon after this.'
                      "
                      “Not the least hard thing to bear when they go from us, these quiet friends, is that they carry away with them so many years of our own lives.”

                      DL Trips: '58, '59, '61, '65, '66, '67, '68x2, '69x2, '70x2, '71x2, '73x2, '74x2, '75x2, '76x2, '77, '78,x2, '79x2, '80x2, '81, '82, '83, '88, '89x3, '90x2, '91, '93, '94, '95x2, '96, '97, '98x4, '99, '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, '07x2, '08, '09x2, '10, '11, '13
                      WDW Trips: '81
                      EPCOT Trips: '93
                      Tokyo DL Trips: '86

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by Co Foo View Post


                        I was intrigued by this project when I first heard about it and I imagined it would be expensive, but not outrageous. I mostly stopped tracking it or reading any updates after I heard about the cost. I'm not sure there is an actual set of experiences that I'd pay $5,000 for. The gap is so huge that it's hard to imagine exactly what it would be to justify $5,000. It's not going to be more actors with accurate costumes.
                        me neither (ok, maybe a Disney brothel...
                        L + L = R

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by skoolpsyk View Post

                          me neither (ok, maybe a Disney brothel...
                          This could be its own whole thread. Imagine the possibilities!

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by stovk View Post

                            Disney is scampering for ca$h, but they are their own worst enemies. If they would develop something with quality (even if it costs more) they probably wouldn't be in this position.

                            I wonder what the cost difference would be from spending more up-front, compared to lost revenue due to loss of sales? We'll probably never know. Like Tony Baxter said, "It's always more difficult to recover than it is to do the right thing at the beginning"
                            I AGREE-X2
                            imo

                            Soaring like an EAGLE !

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by Co Foo View Post


                              I was intrigued by this project when I first heard about it and I imagined it would be expensive, but not outrageous. I mostly stopped tracking it or reading any updates after I heard about the cost. I'm not sure there is an actual set of experiences that I'd pay $5,000 for. The gap is so huge that it's hard to imagine exactly what it would be to justify $5,000. It's not going to be more actors with accurate costumes.
                              I agree with this 100% since this thread started I have been trying to think of what would get me to pay that. The answer is literally nothing I would rather be in the parks.
                              BGood! It's not just my motto its my name!

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                The cancelations have possibly begun. That, or either they are eliminating some availability.

                                Availability as of December 25, 2021

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                                Availability as of January 05, 2022

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                                stovk
                                Old School Disney
                                Last edited by stovk; 01-06-2022, 09:22 AM.
                                “Not the least hard thing to bear when they go from us, these quiet friends, is that they carry away with them so many years of our own lives.”

                                DL Trips: '58, '59, '61, '65, '66, '67, '68x2, '69x2, '70x2, '71x2, '73x2, '74x2, '75x2, '76x2, '77, '78,x2, '79x2, '80x2, '81, '82, '83, '88, '89x3, '90x2, '91, '93, '94, '95x2, '96, '97, '98x4, '99, '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, '07x2, '08, '09x2, '10, '11, '13
                                WDW Trips: '81
                                EPCOT Trips: '93
                                Tokyo DL Trips: '86

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  The Star Wars hotel looks like a sterile hospital that’s being run by escapees from the insane asylum. The only people crazier are the ones actually paying $6000 for this galactic disaster.
                                  iAMiRONMAN
                                  Im just not the hero type
                                  Last edited by iAMiRONMAN; 01-09-2022, 09:29 PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    I am absolutely shocked that alcoholic beverages are not included. Give me a break. Even I offered everyone champagne at my wedding reception. Isn't that a typical format, to offer people beverage "tokens" or some such arrangement at all inclusive resorts/dinner shows? It's a better policy to "include" that cost, and then save the money on the inevitable teetotalers. What I would be even more suspicious of is the "in game purchases"... (see below, it was the fine print at the bottom of the WDW page.) Especially since they are now not including the fancy lightsaber holder thingies anymore in the parks. For this to be immersive, you HAVE to include everything. I find it hysterical that bad wi-fi could be what "breaks the frame" for this experience. A true fan experience would more likely make people leave their cell phones in lockers at the entrance, and use code words for when someone has a real emergency and has to communicate with the outside world. I'm pretty hard core and would LOVE that kind of experience.

                                    "Certain package experiences may be fulfilled by the Play Disney Parks mobile app. In order to obtain the full package experience, each Guest may need to use or wear a MagicBand (referred to as a databand in this experience), have access to a mobile device with a Wi-Fi or mobile carrier data connection with the Play Disney Parks mobile app installed, and be signed into the application with their Disney account. Message and data rates may apply. Availability subject to device limitations and features may vary by device or service provider. Some features may require the Guest (or the Guest’s parent or guardian, if applicable) to grant the Play Disney Parks mobile app access to the location of the mobile device, enable Bluetooth on the device, and/or enable/grant other settings/permissions. Data collected during Guests’ stay, including through the Play Disney Parks mobile app, may be used to personalize Guest experiences and for other purposes in accordance with our privacy policy.

                                    Please be aware that if you choose not to allow us to collect certain data, we may not be able to deliver certain experiences, products, and services to you, and some of our services may not be able to take account of your interests and preferences to create a personalized experience."

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      While I am, admittedly and desperately, hoping Disney somehow pulls off a miracle with this LARPing concept because I see the potential here, and Disney is (very long shot) trying to undersell this so when it does open, it far exceeds the expectations, I really doubt this the case.

                                      The reality is under the Chapek regime, you could see the same checklist formula at work here (from examples like Pixar Place retheme, WDW 50th, SW: GE, and Avengers Campus):

                                      1.) Release amazing, but purposely vague, concept art & buzz worthy D23 announcements
                                      2.) Start construction and release further interesting tidbits to build buzz
                                      3.) Set a higher price point (admission tickets, experience fees, etc.) and additional revenue experiences, but that gets overlooked because of the earlier building buzz (ex: I don’t care how much the costs is, I want to pay for Savi’s build my own lightsaber experience)
                                      4.) Start to aggressively budget engineer the heck out of the concept to save on remaining cap ex and ongoing expenses (maintenance, live entertainment, etc.), but add in some lower cost hashtag walls and ‘we are saving some of these announced concepts for phase 2’ spin)
                                      5.) Deploy first wave of pre-opening shill PR apologist spin ignoring what was cut and overhyping what is left
                                      6.) Open the concept with media friendly blitz, using Disney media friendly reporters and influencers who won’t call out the obvious cost cutting and overhype what remains

                                      At the end of the process, the public accepts a half baked, under delivered, but still high price result because of a mix of three things:

                                      1.) It has a FOMO, wants to be in on the conversation (like seeing a blockbuster film on opening weekend; kids pressure parents, etc.)
                                      2.) Believes the media hype / rose color glasses (ex: Web Slingers, which while understandably subjective, is inferior to even similar Legoland and Six Flags attractions
                                      3.) Believe the Disney experience today is still the gold standard and really is at the same level it was decades ago

                                      I think Anne Morrow, Scott and co. could have delivered at truly amazing LARPing / vacation extension experience (at less that two days, this is experience could, at the right pricing) be a fantastic add-on to a longer Disney Cruise or WDW vacation.

                                      But ultimately I believe it will likely fail because either:

                                      - Chapek and co. got cold feet and tried to over cut the remaining budget because they felt this project may fail

                                      - Chapek and co. think the ‘consumer’ will accept less regardless (McDonald’s hamburgers at a higher price with a Disney brand name)

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        [QUOTE=Jaygatzby;n8653160]While I am, admittedly and desperately, hoping Disney somehow pulls off a miracle with this LARPing concept because I see the potential here, and Disney is (very long shot) trying to undersell this so when it does open, it far exceeds the expectations, I really doubt this the case.

                                        I also wondered briefly about the undersell, but I have assumed that too many times with Disney and been disappointed. If there is ANYTHING to promote about a menu, party, hotel room they market it ALL. There are no delightful surprises with Disney experiences anymore. If it isn't listed in the Disney marketing, I don't think it will exist in this Star Wars Hotel. Like you, I would LOVE to eat my words. I really would. It would be so cool if this Hotel/Starcruiser really amazes the average disney guest. I just hope for the little kids that are going that it fools them just enough to make it inspire their imagination.

                                        I look at the promotional images of the restaurant scenes and I have to hand it to the artists, it looks great. How is this not false advertising, though? If they do not have android robots serving food and drinks, that will be a bummer. At least 1...???


                                        .

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by stovk View Post

                                          I'm glad a someone with a PhD published what most of us SW fans know. I have no arguments with HIS point.

                                          It's not a preference, it's a perception. Your conflating "SW Fans" with "Park Guests" [sorry Co Foo , we must have been posting at the same time] and I am I'm talking about your average Guest. Not all Guests are steeped in the world of "Star Wars". It's a common misconception that people who are well versed in a topic, assume everyone else is.

                                          If Disney wants to bridge the gap between the OT, Prequels, and the Sequels, that's all fine. But they're doing a poor job of it and they're not reaching their average Guest effectively.

                                          That's why I said that when these things were announced, most people were thinking characters from OT. Nary one, I bet, said, "Oh yay! Can't wait to meet some non-descript-blue-looking-Kathleen-Kennedy-humanoid."

                                          :/

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                                          A claim was made about "the public." I am challenging this claim based on the fact that a large sampling of SW fans did not respond in the same way. If you have evidence for your point, I am happy to reconsider my position. As has been pointed out in this thread more than once, ROTR continues to be a draw on both coasts. This also seems to go against the idea that 90% of the public only considers the OT as SW. To reiterate, I'm not saying a ST land was necessarily the best idea, but neither is it a complete failure based on the lack of OT content. Galaxy's Edge should be judged on how well it accomplishes its own goals of being an immersive world, rather than being graded on how it serves a given individual's preference for the OT.

                                          if people thought they were going to see OT characters in a land that was specifically advertised as being based on the sequel timeline, at a certain point, that's kinda on them.

                                          ETA: I'm fairly certain a good chunk of the MCU audience isn't necessarily 100% versed in every twist that happens in the comics...The MCU makes too much to be profiting off only people who read comics growing up. I am not so much assuming everyone to be well versed in SW, quite the opposite. I think most folks in the general public see SW as a media franchise the same way as the MCU. People will go see the latest Marvel movie because it's a Marvel movie. The general public are definitely not the ones griping about Luke in TLJ or Snoke's backstory. Why is it assumed that the "casual fan" is only into the OT? I don't think Iger was wrong when he said he didn't want folks to see the new movies and wonder why that wasn't in the parks. That's the the casual fan.
                                          JLee1226
                                          MiceChatter
                                          Last edited by JLee1226; 01-09-2022, 01:13 PM.
                                          Restore Walt's Disneyland: bring back the Aluminum Hall of Fame!

                                          Comment

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