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  • #16
    I'm with the majority here on the PM. But as ttrocc7007 stated its so much more than the PM. The optimistic vision for the future that TL once held is missed more I think. At least to those of us who got to experience it. I would love to see that vision re-imagined with today's technology and put into place. Hopefully one day we'll see that happen.

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    • #17
      Tower of Terror. Losing TOT kind of deflated that half of the park and my ultimate draw to DCA. Guardians is okay, but its no TOT.

      Women, they make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by sbk1234 View Post
        One thing I feel about both People Mover and Mine Train (and the Pack Mules, for that matter) is even if you didn't ride them, they still enhanced your Disneyland experience, but enhancing the overall ambiance (ie. the immersion) of the place. All of them pulled you deeper into the story of each land.
        I agree with this. For me it wasn't the loss of one ride or theme within a ride, but an overall loss of immersion. For example: I understand the reasons why Cascade Peak needed to be removed, it had basically rotted from water damage. But the loss of features like Cascade Peak was a loss of the dramatic ambiance I think you are talking about. Every sight, sound and smell of the park--- most of which didn't have to include actual rides has changed too much over the years. The sound of the organ in the Swiss Family Robinson Treehouse, the flames of the burning settler's cabin and the thought that you had to be on the look out for Indian attacks, to the smell of the diesel fumes from the Navy Grey painted NUCLEAR WAR submarines in the lagoon.

        The push for more plush toys and rolling food carts over the little details is the largest loss. We could talk all day about POTC scenes, but it is the little details of sights, sounds and smells which younger people will never experience, but I think older people remember fondly.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Whipland View Post
          I agree with this. For me it wasn't the loss of one ride or theme within a ride, but an overall loss of immersion. For example: I understand the reasons why Cascade Peak needed to be removed, it had basically rotted from water damage. But the loss of features like Cascade Peak was a loss of the dramatic ambiance I think you are talking about. Every sight, sound and smell of the park--- most of which didn't have to include actual rides has changed too much over the years. The sound of the organ in the Swiss Family Robinson Treehouse, the flames of the burning settler's cabin and the thought that you had to be on the look out for Indian attacks, to the smell of the diesel fumes from the Navy Grey painted NUCLEAR WAR submarines in the lagoon.

          The push for more plush toys and rolling food carts over the little details is the largest loss. We could talk all day about POTC scenes, but it is the little details of sights, sounds and smells which younger people will never experience, but I think older people remember fondly.
          Exactly right. All those lost elements added to the immersive story of each of Disneyland's lands and the Park as a whole. The Pressler/Eisner/Iger push for brand marketing and IP promotion diminishes and distracts from the story by interrupting it with elements of retail mall sensibility -- a retail sales approach that brings the outside world inside the berm.

          "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
          Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
          imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

          - Neil Gabler

          "I didn't know the story of baby Jesus could be any better,
          until Thor told it to me."
          -
          Young girl at Disneyland's 2017 Candlelight Ceremony

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

            Exactly right. All those lost elements added to the immersive story of each of Disneyland's lands and the Park as a whole. The Pressler/Eisner/Iger push for brand marketing and IP promotion diminishes and distracts from the story by interrupting it with elements of retail mall sensibility -- a retail sales approach that brings the outside world inside the berm.
            RIGHT......Disneyland Now......Disney , let it become more retail mall , with more to marketing and IP promotion ,
            and every thing have gotten more expensive for less ..... immersive story of Lands that had Theme , now become Brand land.
            Park have become more , more ,of the outside world , inside the berm !
            Soaring like an EAGLE !

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

              Exactly right. All those lost elements added to the immersive story of each of Disneyland's lands and the Park as a whole. The Pressler/Eisner/Iger push for brand marketing and IP promotion diminishes and distracts from the story by interrupting it with elements of retail mall sensibility -- a retail sales approach that brings the outside world inside the berm.
              Having had worked in retail for some years I understand the point of sale impulse purchases; however, it has gone too far when as you say, it disrupts the

              I may be wrong about this, but I thought as a kid I remember days where you could go to the park and there was free parking available and you could shop on Main Street without paying park admission. I could be mistaken, but I know there were days during the off season where they didn't operate rides to save on overhead operating costs, but I though Main street stores were still open.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Whipland View Post
                I may be wrong about this, but I thought as a kid I remember days where you could go to the park and there was free parking available and you could shop on Main Street without paying park admission.
                Yep. There used to be a Shopping Pass that let you in for two hours (later reduced to one hour). You gave 'em your credit card number as a deposit, and if you didn't come back on time you got charged (I don't remember if it was an automatic full-day-ticket charge or prorated sliding scale; I think the latter). It was discontinued about the time Downtown Disney opened, IIRC.
                "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
                Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
                imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

                - Neil Gabler

                "I didn't know the story of baby Jesus could be any better,
                until Thor told it to me."
                -
                Young girl at Disneyland's 2017 Candlelight Ceremony

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                  Yep. There used to be a Shopping Pass that let you in for two hours (later reduced to one hour). You gave 'em your credit card number as a deposit, and if you didn't come back on time you got charged (I don't remember if it was an automatic full-day-ticket charge or prorated sliding scale; I think the latter). It was discontinued about the time Downtown Disney opened, IIRC.
                  Interesting .....I know Knott's had same kind of pass, they like wise discontinued as well.
                  Soaring like an EAGLE !

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Eagleman View Post
                    Interesting .....I know Knott's had same kind of pass, they like wise discontinued as well.
                    I'm guessing it doesn't make business sense for either company to offer a free shopping pass that would be used primarily by locals, when locals are also their primary market for Annual Passports.
                    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
                    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
                    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

                    - Neil Gabler

                    "I didn't know the story of baby Jesus could be any better,
                    until Thor told it to me."
                    -
                    Young girl at Disneyland's 2017 Candlelight Ceremony

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                      I'm guessing it doesn't make business sense for either company to offer a free shopping pass that would be used primarily by locals, when locals are also their primary market for Annual Passports.
                      I bet the key .....why they discontinued shopping pass.
                      I bet we are talking about - over 30ty years ago....lol
                      Last edited by Eagleman; 01-03-2018, 10:52 PM.
                      Soaring like an EAGLE !

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Whipland View Post
                        Having had worked in retail for some years I understand the point of sale impulse purchases; however, it has gone too far when as you say, it disrupts....
                        Spot on. As a DL collector as a child, teen and adult, I'm all for DL merch sales, and loved impulse buying at DL. The essential difference in the pre-Pressler years was that while the usual Disneyland branded souvenirs were in every store (and I've got boxes of 'em!), and were featured at souvenir kiosks, in the main stores they were cast as thematic "background players" (especially around the register counters). Main-push merch was like featured performers in each land's "show" that the stores were part of. ODV merch carts were few and far between. There was a movie-set-design sensibility that informed the selection and in-store placement of merch for each store depending on what land it was in. It wasn't a hard-and-fast rule so much as a sensibility -- an awareness of the "story of the land" -- the famous "only in Disneyland" mix of brand marketing, retailing, and showmanship that informed what items DL's buyers supplied to which stores and how they were displayed, and made the Disneyland shopping experience so unique and memorable.

                        All that changed when Eisner gave Pressler the Keys to the Kingdom. The sales-record-setting guru of Disney Stores and an expert mall retailer, Paul rejected the concept that DL stores were part of the show, dumped DL's longtime buyers, brought in the all-things-in-every-store approach of the Disney Stores, and left key decisions on what merch should be pushed to Disney Consumer Products -- who themselves followed the Studio's, Channel's, and Home Entertainment's marketing (DCP later moved to the marketing forefront, dictating Disney TV Animation direct-to-video product that was synergized at DL).

                        Post-Pressler, Jay expanded Paul's practice of filling ODV carts with generic county fair glow-merch, and brought in One Disney, the initiative that rebranded Disneyland as just another of the many Disney Parks. After Jay, Tom, and now especially Bob, continued the fragmentation of merch theming by turning more stores into platforms for pushing a motley mix of whatever was currently hot at DCP. The result was skyrocketing merch sales for DLR and heartbreak for us oldtime DL merch fans.
                        Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 01-03-2018, 11:48 PM.
                        "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
                        Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
                        imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

                        - Neil Gabler

                        "I didn't know the story of baby Jesus could be any better,
                        until Thor told it to me."
                        -
                        Young girl at Disneyland's 2017 Candlelight Ceremony

                        Comment

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