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Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

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  • Asa
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Originally posted by HongKongDisneyland View Post
    according to earlier news reported by local media, nobody is interested in the short term lease on the phase 2 site, I wonder what they are going to do with this vacant undeveloped land.

    Why not use it for the 2nd gate ? open it on the 10th Anniversary of HKDL, that would be great idea.
    Oh really? I don't remember seeing that report. Actually that would be quite surprising since the infrastructure is already there. It would be a good place for open air concerts or drive-in movies.

    Second gate at this point is just too far away. The first gate isn't even complete even after the announced expansions. I don't see a second gate until maybe 2025, on the 20th anniversary.

    Leave a comment:


  • tasman
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Originally posted by TDR_Fan View Post
    The problem with a second gate so soon is that we will see a repeat of what happened in Paris. The main gate itself is not performing well enough to justify a second park, and the future of the resort is basically depending on the three-land expansion. I do not think they have the guests nor budget to support even the main park, let alone a second gate. If they had to leech money away from Hong Kong Disneyland for a second gate, you'd probably see something cheap like the Walt Disney Studios as a placeholder just so they can retain their rights to the land.
    And that would be disastrous, because at least in Paris, the first park was superb.

    I don't see why the hurry. Anaheim didn't get a second park for 46 years and lucrative just the same. Tokyo waited 18 years and Tokyo at least was successful from the start. I would recommend all parties concerned to focus with making HKDL a stellar park like the original in Anaheim and not think about a second gate for another couple of decades.

    Leave a comment:


  • TDR_Fan
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Originally posted by HongKongDisneyland View Post
    according to earlier news reported by local media, nobody is interested in the short term lease on the phase 2 site, I wonder what they are going to do with this vacant undeveloped land.

    Why not use it for the 2nd gate ? open it on the 10th Anniversary of HKDL, that would be great idea.
    The problem with a second gate so soon is that we will see a repeat of what happened in Paris. The main gate itself is not performing well enough to justify a second park, and the future of the resort is basically depending on the three-land expansion. I do not think they have the guests nor budget to support even the main park, let alone a second gate. If they had to leech money away from Hong Kong Disneyland for a second gate, you'd probably see something cheap like the Walt Disney Studios as a placeholder just so they can retain their rights to the land.

    Leave a comment:


  • PennysBayChronicle
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Originally posted by Asa View Post
    Yes, there is an agreement which states that Disney must build a second gate before a certain date, otherwise the phase 2 land will be used for something else.

    Right now the phase 2 land is on offer for a 5 year lease and tenders are invited, since Disney definitely won't be using it in the next 5 and maybe even 10 years. There is still enough room for expansion in phase 1 for sometime to come...

    The one thing that I think most HK people want to see is that the HK govt give up its share on HKDL. The govt simply is not up to running a business and the entire thing is better off in businessmen's hands, let them decide what is best for it in the future.

    Ocean Park is run by a businessman, Allan Zemen, and he is doing great things with it, and he isn't even paid! I am sure there are other equally capable businessmen in HK to run Disneyland, just not the stupid govt.
    according to earlier news reported by local media, nobody is interested in the short term lease on the phase 2 site, I wonder what they are going to do with this vacant undeveloped land.

    Why not use it for the 2nd gate ? open it on the 10th Anniversary of HKDL, that would be great idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • PennysBayChronicle
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Originally posted by OC2Epcot View Post
    This is almost exactly what I said in the other thread about Shanghai Disney and Hong Kong Disneyland a couple of days ago. I believed Shanghai would draw many more people than Hong Hong's park.
    In principle, yes. Mainland chinese do not need a travel permit/visa to go to Shanghai. but you have to assume that they are crazy for Disney Theme Park,otherwise you might see something like what happens to most of their local theme parks in mainland China, that is, they wither and fade.

    To call it a success, they need repeat business.
    Last edited by PennysBayChronicle; 11-06-2009, 04:38 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • OC2Epcot
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    This is almost exactly what I said in the other thread about Shanghai Disney and Hong Kong Disneyland a couple of days ago. I believed Shanghai would draw many more people than Hong Hong's park.

    Leave a comment:


  • PennysBayChronicle
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Originally posted by tasman View Post
    ^^ Shanghai has more history than HK IMO. I would also say that the art and culture scene in Shanghai is the most vibrant in China. Hong Kong is still tops overall now and of course will always have greater physical beauty - but in other aspects I feel that Shanghai is or will be at least an equal. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and see how history pans out .
    Yes, Shanghai has longer history than Hong Kong. wait a min....

    Hong Kong has just announced the opening of Hong Kong National GeoPark of China, which covers about 5,000 hectares, is made up of eight geo-areas distributed across the Northeast New Territories Sedimentary Rock Region and Sai Kung Volcanic Rock Region. The oldest rocks in Hong Kong date back 400 million to 360 million years!!!

    but if you look at the history of HSBC, Hong Kong has a little bit of longer history than Shanghai.

    HSBC, Europe's largest bank, and one of the biggest bank in the world. The HSBC Group is named after its founding member, The Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation Limited, which was established in 1865 to finance the growing trade between Europe, India and China.The bank first opened in Hong Kong in March 1865 and a branch in Shanghai a month later. If you look at the name of HSBC (it was previously refered as Hong Kong Bank), H stands for Hong Kong and S stands for Shanghai, the letter H is placed before letter S, due to the fact it was founded in Hong Kong first, and then Shanghai in that order.

    Regarding Art and Culture scene in Shanghai vs Hong Kong, Hong Kong gov is going to change that by transforming Hong Kong as the Culture Hub of Asia. Hong Kong is going to spend around HK$21 billion on WKCD (West Kowloon Culture District), by developing a prime harbourfront site into a mega cultural district.

    Don't forget, Hong Kong is the Pearl of the Orient.
    Last edited by PennysBayChronicle; 11-06-2009, 07:12 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ImagineerWaryur
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    I believe they have to make the decision on the second gate by 2013. Of course, they could pressure the HK Council for an extension. But hopefully the mistake of making another Walt Disney Studios Paris won't be made. Better to wait and build something worthy of the Disney name.


    ImagineerWarrior

    Leave a comment:


  • Asa
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Yes, there is an agreement which states that Disney must build a second gate before a certain date, otherwise the phase 2 land will be used for something else.

    Right now the phase 2 land is on offer for a 5 year lease and tenders are invited, since Disney definitely won't be using it in the next 5 and maybe even 10 years. There is still enough room for expansion in phase 1 for sometime to come...

    The one thing that I think most HK people want to see is that the HK govt give up its share on HKDL. The govt simply is not up to running a business and the entire thing is better off in businessmen's hands, let them decide what is best for it in the future.

    Ocean Park is run by a businessman, Allan Zemen, and he is doing great things with it, and he isn't even paid! I am sure there are other equally capable businessmen in HK to run Disneyland, just not the stupid govt.

    Leave a comment:


  • tasman
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    ^^ Shanghai has more history than HK IMO. I would also say that the art and culture scene in Shanghai is the most vibrant in China. Hong Kong is still tops overall now and of course will always have greater physical beauty - but in other aspects I feel that Shanghai is or will be at least an equal. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and see how history pans out .

    Leave a comment:


  • RandySavage
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Originally posted by tasman View Post
    Shanghai is destined to be China's top metropolis (just as it was a hundred years ago) - China's New York. Hong Kong is an incredible city and more developed today but the focal point for the coming century will be Shanghai. So Disney is right to focus there.
    Shanghai will be top in terms of population, commerce & finance (in mainland China), so, yes, Disney is smart to go there.

    But much, much more goes into making a great city than those things. In terms of geography, history, architecture, arts, culture, etc., Hong Kong will not be surpassed by Shanghai in terms of greatness, just as Sao Paulo, Brazil, while a bigger financial and population center, will never overtake Rio on the scale of great cities.

    A century of British and Chinese culture melding, the jaw-dropping physical geography, and the sheer energy make Hong Kong among the 3 best cities on Earth.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaliforniaAdventurer
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Paris' 2nd gate is a landfill, too.

    A step up from a place that instills nostalgia for the parking lot.

    Leave a comment:


  • RandySavage
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Originally posted by Dustysage View Post
    And I'd at least like to know they have aggressive plans for the 2nd park - something better thought out than Disneyland Paris' studios park.
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Euro Disney S.C.A. had contractual obligations to open a 2nd gate or they would forfeit certain rights under the original agreement with the French government. And so they built the second "theme park" as cheaply has they could. And it showed. I'm not sure ED S.C.A. would have gone forward with a 2nd gate as early as 2002 had it not been for this provision.

    From what I remember, HKITP has similar provisions with the government and could lose control of the 2nd Gate landfill if they do not build another park before a certain date (with some time-extension if attendance at HKDL meets specified levels).

    Leave a comment:


  • tasman
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Originally posted by RandySavage View Post
    As2. HKDL boasts the greater city around it. As a city, Shanghai is not on the same tier as Hong Kong, which is one of the one of very best cities on the planet (along with New York, London, Paris, Rome, Rio and handful of others). If you take away the theme parks, 9/10 first-timers would chose HK over Shanghai.
    I agree with most of what you say but the company is doing the right thing by having a long-term vision. Shanghai is destined to be China's top metropolis (just as it was a hundred years ago) - China's New York. Hong Kong is an incredible city and more developed today but the focal point for the coming century will be Shanghai. So Disney is right to focus there.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaliforniaAdventurer
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Rethink Downtown Disney before it's too late. There's no reason to dedicate space to a mall, IMO an arcade of shops within a hotel would be more elegant and exciting.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dustysage
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Originally posted by RandySavage View Post
    As usual, the media is mistakenly fixated on acreage of the resort rather than number/type of attractions in the park. We still don't know if/how much bigger and more filled out SDL (the park) will be in relation to HKDL (the park). No one is paying to visit the unused acreage of either (yet).

    We do know this:
    1. Once the expansion is completed, HKDL will be a significantly better park than it is now - and that will pre-date the opening of SDL.

    2. HKDL boasts the greater city around it. As a city, Shanghai is not on the same tier as Hong Kong, which is one of the one of very best cities on the planet (along with New York, London, Paris, Rome, Rio and handful of others). If you take away the theme parks, 9/10 first-timers would chose HK over Shanghai.

    Like mentioned above, this could be a win-win if HKDL gets in the competive spirit and speeds up/expands their growth over the next 5 years.
    Great points Randy! There is certainly a reason for HKDL to be worried but there is no reason to believe that these parks can not co-exist. They will serve different markets and will likely be very different in design.

    People forget that while technically Chinese, Hong Kong might as well be its own country. It isn't all that easy for mainland Chinese to get to Hong Kong, much less afford it. I really can't see Shanghai eating into Hong Kong Disneyland's business too much.

    All the more reason why the HKDL expansion plan is so important. They need more rides and attractions. They still don't have their own Downtown Disney style shopping district. And I'd at least like to know they have aggressive plans for the 2nd park - something better thought out than Disneyland Paris' studios park.

    Leave a comment:


  • RandySavage
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    As usual, the media is mistakenly fixated on acreage of the resort rather than number/type of attractions in the park. We still don't know if/how much bigger and more filled out SDL (the park) will be in relation to HKDL (the park). No one is paying to visit the unused acreage of either (yet).

    We do know this:
    1. Once the expansion is completed, HKDL will be a significantly better park than it is now - and that will pre-date the opening of SDL.

    2. HKDL boasts the greater city around it. As a city, Shanghai is not on the same tier as Hong Kong, which is one of the one of very best cities on the planet (along with New York, London, Paris, Rome, Rio and handful of others). If you take away the theme parks, 9/10 first-timers would chose HK over Shanghai.

    Like mentioned above, this could be a win-win if HKDL gets in the competive spirit and speeds up/expands their growth over the next 5 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dustysage
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Originally posted by tasman View Post

    But now, HK govt knows that nothing short of full commitment on their part will make the resort a success.
    I hope you are right. A good sign of that would be Disney canceling the Toy Story Land for something actually worth building.

    Leave a comment:


  • tasman
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    This is a good thing.

    Since Eisner left, Disney has been willing to invest more money in HKDL, but HK govt has prevented this because they themselves are unwilling to invest as much and they don't want Disney to increase its share of control in HKDL. The reluctance to invest more comes from the bad experience with Eisner-era Disney and with local politics - since refusing to invest more money in the park is popular with voters. This one reason why the more expensive arctic-themed area got replaced with the cheaper Toy Story Playland (the other being Ocean Park's own arctic-themed area and the government's stake in that competing park).

    But now, HK govt knows that nothing short of full commitment on their part will make the resort a success.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaliforniaAdventurer
    replied
    Re: Disney Shanghai: Good for China, Bad for Hong Kong, BusinessWeek

    Will Shanghai be mad if they get approval from Beijing for a third Disney resort?

    I know you guys will be mad. But it could happen!

    Leave a comment:

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