[Chat] Toy Story Land low Capacity !

[Malin]

A Disneyland Paris website is reporting via its Twitter page some rather concerning details about the new Toy Story Land which will also have an impact on the Hong Kong version too. It involves how many Guest each new ride in the land will get though in one hour. Slinky Dog ZigZag Spin has an hourly capacity of only 874 guests per hour, while RC Racer is even worst with an hourly count of just 600 Guest. Source WDSfans (wdsfans) on Twitter

Hong Kong Disneyland is hoping this new land will not only increase attendance but keep Guest entertained inside the park for longer. But attractions with a low capacity count usually mean longer lines and will Guest appreciate having to queue for so long for what is a carnival ride with some cute Toy Story theming attached. I feel Disney are seriously overlooking the bigger picture here and longer waits are only going to prevent people from spending more money on food and merchandise.

[Hathaway Browne]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

I don't see it being a huge problem. Sure it will cause lines but its not as if Playland is the only addition to the park. There will be plenty of other attractions to try.

[Malin]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

But if the Guest see the wait times to long for the three attractions at Toy Story Land and do decided to skip Toy Story Land, than what is the point in building it in the first place?

Toy Story Land is a horrible concept that is going to add very little value to the Guest experience and in some ways will actually end up making the Guest frustrated at having to wait so long to ride something that spins you around for a about a minute and a half. This is not the way to run a themepark !

[Casey Jr]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

Hong Kong Disneyland isn't even too crowded in the first place, I don't think a 15 minute line is that bad really. it's just like Dumbo or the Teacups, and those are wildly popular.

[Malin]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

Hong Kong Disneyland is not too crowded at the moment, but is the whole purpose for Toy Story Land not to increase attendance. Big Grizzly Mountain and Mystic Point will be able to handle the extra crowds who are turning up to see the new lands. But Toy Story Land and its attractions will unlikely be able hold its own here and with RC Racer only having a capacity of 600 per hour, its going to mean most Guest will end up leaving the park without having the chance to ride it.

[Hathaway Browne]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

But if the Guest see the wait times to long for the three attractions at Toy Story Land and do decided to skip Toy Story Land, than what is the point in building it in the first place?

I know this is splitting hairs, but by that same argument some guests might as well skip Mystic Manor if there is a queue.

Toy Story Land is a horrible concept that is going to add very little value to the Guest experience and in some ways will actually end up making the Guest frustrated at having to wait so long to ride something that spins you around for a about a minute and a half. This is not the way to run a themepark !

Toy Story Land is never going to be the next big thing at Hong Kong Disneyland, its just a few extra attractions to make it seem like you get more for you HK-Buck.

and with RC Racer only having a capacity of 600 per hour, its going to mean most Guest will end up leaving the park without having the chance to ride it.

Some how I don't think that's a deal breaker, neither for Hong Kong nor any other park in the World.

If Toy Story Land was the only addition to the park then we'd have big problems, but seeings as its a pickle on the burger (some don't mind it, some could do without) then its no problem.

[Malin]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

I know this is splitting hairs, but by that same argument some guests might as well skip Mystic Manor if there is a queue.

Not really because Mystic Point is an E Ticket attraction that Guest will not mind waiting for, also chances are the lines will move much faster because it can handle more people each hour and it will also likely offer Fast Pass. Non of which the Toy Story Land rides will be able too !

Toy Story Land is never going to be the next big thing at Hong Kong Disneyland, its just a few extra attractions to make it seem like you get more for you HK-Buck.

I quite agree but unfortunately its not being billed by the park as just a little something more for your money, its being billed as something Disney and the HK Govement hope you visit the park to see.

Some how I don't think that's a deal breaker, neither for Hong Kong nor any other park in the World.

I Think that really depends if your visiting the park with kids who love Toy Story or not. You may be able to do without riding RC Racer but not everyone visiting is going to want to give it a miss, especially for attractions that the visitor has probarely repeated on several trips in the past.

[Hathaway Browne]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

Not really because Mystic Point is an E Ticket attraction that Guest will not mind waiting for, also chances are the lines will move much faster because it can handle more people each hour and it will also likely offer Fast Pass. Non of which the Toy Story Land rides will be able too !

But on an attraction level that's apples and oranges. Or E-Ticket vs. C-Ticket.

Both will have lines, FastPass or not. What I was trying to say in the first reply, (admittedly deliberately splitting hairs for the sake of discussion) is you can't argue against building RC Racer just because it will have lines. OK, the per hour is not great but its still added capacity.

If its a walk on on opening day, then you've got a problem.

I quite agree but unfortunately its not being billed by the park as just a little something more for your money, its being billed as something Disney and the HK Govement hope you visit the park to see.

Of course it is. They're not going to pretend otherwise, they have a vested interest in getting people through turnstiles and stating that Toy Storyland is anything less defeats the object.

But on the flip side its not the sole addition that they are going to promote, just one of three, and the other two are big deals for the park.

I Think that really depends if your visiting the park with kids who love Toy Story or not. You may be able to do without riding RC Racer but not everyone visiting is going to want to give it a miss, especially for attractions that the visitor has probarely repeated on several trips in the past.

Perhaps this sounds cynical but it could be seen as a good thing. Its a reason to visit again - particularly in one of the quieter seasons.

[Semiquaver]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

There might be a quick service restaurant or something added in the future.

Look towards the bottom (which is really the northern end) of the model shown at the expo.

Note: I found the pic through google and is from dlfreak on another Disney fan site.

It says "Future 200 Seat QSR." The imagineer I talked to had no clue about the land since it wasn't his project, but thanks to Randy we know it means a new restaurant. Keep in mind it is on the border of the land, so it could reasonably be a part of another land from some future expansion.

Otherwise, yeah, the land doesn't have much. Nothing to really draw people back there.

[Malin]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

Both will have lines, FastPass or not. What I was trying to say in the first reply, (admittedly deliberately splitting hairs for the sake of discussion) is you can't argue against building RC Racer just because it will have lines. OK, the per hour is not great but its still added capacity.

But here's the thing you can argue against it because Hong Kong Disneyland is wanting to attract millions of Guest to its gates each year, and by building crap like RC Racer its failing to meet that demand. Providing RC Racer doesn't go down during the day you could if your lucky maybe get though 6000 Guest over a 10 hour period. Its A Small World can acheive that figure in about 2-3 hours. That means the majority of Guest are unlikely to even ride this attraction during a day trip, so does the park need it. Don't get me wrong I see no problem with them wanting to add capacity to this park, but for only 600 Guest an hour is it worth it, when you have 30,000 Guest in the park that day ?

If its a walk on on opening day, then you've got a problem.

So you don't see a problem with Guest having to wait 1-2 hours for these attractions, where there time could be better spent spending money. If these rides are anything like the ones in A Bugs Land at DCA your ride time will be 1-2 minutes, how are you going to feel waiting in line for so long for it to be over in a matter of seconds. At least with attractions that use Fast Pass you can go off and do something else, but these TSL rides have such a silly capacity rate, that its unlikely any of them will offer FastPass.

Of course it is. They're not going to pretend otherwise, they have a vested interest in getting people through turnstiles and stating that Toy Storyland is anything less defeats the object.

Unfortunately hyping it up is only going to put people off visiting it even more. How do you think Guest will react standing in line on a hot summers day for up to an hour's wait for a ride that you can find in any Six Flags style themepark. Do you think they are going to leave the park and recomend it to everyone else.

But on the flip side its not the sole addition that they are going to promote, just one of three, and the other two are big deals for the park.

Sadly TSL is opening first and with its potential issues that I have pointed out, bad word could get out and like before during its opening year, will put people off visiting. I would actually be interested to know from any Hong Kong Members out there what the general sort of impression is in regards to TSL.

Perhaps this sounds cynical but it could be seen as a good thing. Its a reason to visit again - particularly in one of the quieter seasons.

Or the Guest may just decide that the three TSL rides don't seem worth the wait and decide not to visit again. Because if I have to wait more than 5 minutes to ride Toy Soldiers Parachute Drop, I too would probarely not come back. And this is the main point you may not see a problem with these attractions having low capacity but from a parks perspective its going to be an operations nightmare and will make for a very unpleasent experience for the Guest.

[Witches of Morva]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

ORDDU: My sisters and I agree with you, Malin, duckling. If Hong Kong Disneyland is going to expand--as it should--it needs to expand with a major attraction first. It's too bad they didn't build ToyStory Mania instead of all these side dish attractions that don't really do much for the guest experience. It's as though they're afraid to spend any real money very soon on the expansion. By the time they get around to doing what they should, the park's reputation will become worse than it already is.

[RandySavage]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

It says "Future 200 Seat QSR." The imagineer I talked to had no clue about the land since it wasn't his project, but we agreed that it probably meant a venue for a 3-D film. Keep in mind it is on the border of the land, so it could reasonably be a part of another land from some future expansion.

In blueprint jargon, QSR stands for "Quick Service Restaurant" (i.e. a fast food place). Nice find, though.

[HKDLFAN]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

I live in HK and I am an AP at both Ocean Park and HKDL. The most popular rides in Ocean Park are in the stupidly babyish carnival land with wait times for each ride on average ranging from 1 hour to 3 hours for stuff like a giant swing and other stupid things. I see no problem with TSL if this situation presents itself at HKDL. All TSL is meant to do is to KEEP THE GUESTS INSIDE and GET MORE PEOPLE, It isn't meant to make huge newspaper articles or break records or anything. This is pure business.

Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Manor are already generating hype in Hong Kong with all local newspapers chinese or english, raving about their high-tech state-of-the art technology. I believe i posted that article in a thread a few months back on MC.

[ni_teach]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

ORDDU: My sisters and I agree with you, Malin, duckling. If Hong Kong Disneyland is going to expand--as it should--it needs to expand with a major attraction first. It's too bad they didn't build ToyStory Mania instead of all these side dish attractions that don't really do much for the guest experience. It's as though they're afraid to spend any real money very soon on the expansion. By the time they get around to doing what they should, the park's reputation will become worse than it already is.

I with the witches on this one. I can't believe that they do not want to build a ToyStory Mania along slide these others attractions.

[Semiquaver]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

In blueprint jargon, QSR stands for "Quick Service Restaurant" (i.e. a fast food place). Nice find, though.

Thanks for the info! That is one massive quick service restaurant on prime location though. One thing I've noticed on all recent concepts coming out of WDI lately is the immense waste of real estate going on. For parks in WDW it's almost forgivable since they have so much land, but in HKDL it's not. The other big rectangle of land with nothing on it in that photo I posted earlier says "Future Merchandise Shop." More wasted space...

[Baloo]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

considering the info you posted:


-Slinky Dog ZigZag Spin has an hourly capacity of only 874 guests per hour.

-C Racer is even worse with an hourly count of just 600 Guest.

that is a total of 1474 guests per hour for the land and that does not include the parachute drop.
For the sake of discussion will probably also have a capacity of 600 guests per hour.

giving the land a total of 2074 guests per hour.


compared to other major attraction additions the hourly capacity of this addition is not bad at all.

both mystic point and grizzly gulch will have one attraction and i am sure that their capacity will be around the high 1900 to 2000 per hour on those single attractions.

The thing you need to realize is that all three lands will have other activities to entertain the guests besides the attractions.

the area should be pretty much in the same category as mermaid lagoon and bugsland. both of those lands have attractions with low capacity that add to the overall parks capacity and things for guests to do. it does not matter if the attraction last 1 or 2 minutes and have a 30 minute wait. There are many other attractions that sometimes have huge lines eventhough the attraction last only a couple minutes.

But here's the thing you can argue against it because Hong Kong Disneyland is wanting to attract millions of Guest to its gates each year, and by building crap like RC Racer its failing to meet that demand. Providing RC Racer doesn't go down during the day you could if your lucky maybe get though 6000 Guest over a 10 hour period. Its A Small World can acheive that figure in about 2-3 hours. That means the majority of Guest are unlikely to even ride this attraction during a day trip, so does the park need it. Don't get me wrong I see no problem with them wanting to add capacity to this park, but for only 600 Guest an hour is it worth it, when you have 30,000 Guest in the park that day ?

not every attraction is intended to be ridden by all guests in one day. That is the whole point of Disney adding hotels to their properties.
If you want to argue that not everyone will be able to ride rc racers because of its low capacity then you need to look at every attraction built. Not all attractions allow every guest to ride it during the day of their stay.

Does the lion king show allow all guests to see it during a busy day?

or lets look at a major lure for guests at the state parks - Fantasmic.
In WDW capacity for that show according to their site is 1500 seats plus a few thousand more standing room. (although i have heard that the theater could hold up to 7000). They offer one maybe two showings per day that leaves thousands of guests that will not be able to see it.

So i really doubt that capacity will be an issue as long as there are other activities for guests to be entertained with

[Hathaway Browne]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

^I agree with all that.

I'll admit, TSL is not the best and we know they can do better, but given the circumstances (coupled with the ability to "co-produce" with Paris) means that unfortunately its what we've ended up with.

And as I've said, its not as if TSL is the only addition to the park. There will be two other lands to make up for TSL's short comings. (Just look at WDS - its going to be the sole addition for a while).

So what if its capacity is not huge. Just by being there it should help stop some of the "lack of things to do" brigade.

In blueprint jargon, QSR stands for "Quick Service Restaurant" (i.e. a fast food place). Nice find, though.

Uh-oh. You know what that means then....

Pizza Planet.

[Malin]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

I live in HK and I am an AP at both Ocean Park and HKDL. The most popular rides in Ocean Park are in the stupidly babyish carnival land with wait times for each ride on average ranging from 1 hour to 3 hours for stuff like a giant swing and other stupid things.

Do you not think the reason for the long wait times on these attractions is down to popularity or low capacity. Exactly the point I've been making though out this thread and that most don't seem to understand. Disney Parks appeal to millions of Guest every year and you need to provide these people with attractions that can handle millions of Guest every year, not just a few thousand per day.

that is a total of 1474 guests per hour for the land and that does not include the parachute drop.
For the sake of discussion will probably also have a capacity of 600 guests per hour.

giving the land a total of 2074 guests per hour.


compared to other major attraction additions the hourly capacity of this addition is not bad at all.

Thats an unfair comparrison really, because if your using land capacity as a discussion point, that 2074 Guest per hour would still be poor when its matched against the park's other land's like Adventureland, Tomorrowland or Fantasyland. And the hourly capacity doesn't take into account unseen circumstances like ride shutdown's.

The thing you need to realize is that all three lands will have other activities to entertain the guests besides the attractions.

Yes I'm aware these lands will have additional components to the listed attractions, but lets be honest with ourselves water play areas are not what the average park visitor has come to see!

the area should be pretty much in the same category as mermaid lagoon and bugsland. both of those lands have attractions with low capacity that add to the overall parks capacity and things for guests to do. it does not matter if the attraction last 1 or 2 minutes and have a 30 minute wait.

Bugs Land and Mermaid Lagoon can not be considered the same as Toy Story Land because at least the other two hold more attractions than the three listed for Toy Story Land. Also Mermaid Lagoon stages a very impressive theatre show, and Bugs Land has Its Tough To Be A Bug. If Hong Kong Disneyland had built TSL with something like Toy Story Mania, and a couple of additional carnival rides I would not have such an issue with regards to capacity.

not every attraction is intended to be ridden by all guests in one day. That is the whole point of Disney adding hotels to their properties. If you want to argue that not everyone will be able to ride rc rcaers because of its low capacity then you need to look at every attraction built. Not all attractions allow every guest to ride it during the day of their stay.

Does the lion king show allow all guests to see it during a busy day?

or lets look at a major lure for guests at the state parks - Fantasmic. In WDW capacity for that show according to their site is 1500 seats plus a few thousand more standing room. (although i have heard that the theater could hold up to 7000). They offer one maybe two showings per day. that leaves thousands of guests that will not be able to see it.

So i really doubt that capacity will be an issue as long as their is other activities for guests to be entertained

Agreed not every Guest is going to ride every attraction at the park on the one day, but if you want to ride RC Racer you should be able to do so without having to queue for ever. Not every Guest picks to watch the Lion King but chances are if you turn up shortly before show time your likely to get into that performance, why because this show is set up to handle the strong demand. What happens if 2,000 people all decide to ride RC Racer at the same time, the answer a long wait.

And as I've said, its not as if TSL is the only addition to the park. There will be two other lands to make up for TSL's short comings. (Just look at WDS - its going to be the sole addition for a while).

But is it right to expect the Guest to walk off and see something else. Oh and TSL is going to be the first to open, so like the Studios it will be the sole addition for some time.

[Hathaway Browne]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

^I seriously doubt two thousand people will converge on RC Racer at once. Even on rope drop when it has its first public day of operations.

And yes I appreciate that the land will be on its own in HKDL for a while, but at least its got something else backing it up in subsequent years unlike Paris which might get a Ratatouille attraction at some point.

As I've said, I admit that the land is not the best, but its what they're getting, there's no use bemoaning it - especially on grounds of limited capacity which cannot be helped due to the nature of the attraction.

[toonaspie]

Re: Toy Story Land low Capacity !

Isnt Toy Story Land supposed to be a land for mostly smaller children anyway? Like A Bugs Land in DCA or maybe ToonTown?

They probably dont expect this land to draw much crowds unless theyre families with small children. That could explain the low capacity.