Toky Disney 3rd theme park

[hakjie11]

Hey Guys,


3rd theme park announced

https://nerdist.com/new-disney-theme-park-tokyo/

[Asa]

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201711/5844/

Despite some mistranslations appearing now in U.S. press, Oriental Land has not announced that it will build a third gate at the Tokyo Disney Resort. In fact, Japanese reporting seems to indicate the OLC sources said the expansion could be the equivalent of adding another park's worth of content to the resort, not that it would be an actual third park.

[hakjie11]

Too bad, a 3rd one would certainly be great, but an expansion is certainly not bad.

Although I am not sure whether Oriental Land would get all the good stuff this time. They use to be the only Asia Disney park around.
Now WDC owns almost half of HKDL and SHDL, but TDL is owned by Oriental Land which is only paying licensing fee and design-build to WDC.

I like the Japanese theme they are aiming for, TDL is trying to distinguish themselves from the rest of the Disney parks.
So it would probably mean they would have special custom designed rides to fit into this Japanese theme and other parks would not be able to use its design without adjusting it.
So their version of the ride and its merchandises would always remain exclusive to Tokyo Disneyland in some way.
Very smart move coz they understand WDC is just using the same story-ride design and copy-paste it somewhere in an other Disney park after a certain time, so meaning that investments would become less attractive when multiple copies of the rides exists.
Maybe HK Disney should consider a Hong Kong theme to make its 2nd gate more exclusive.

[Asa]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/tokyo-disneyland-planning-27-billion-expansion-1062921

Hollywood Reporter confirms it is an expansion of 30% from its current size which will cost $2.7 billion.

An attraction based on Frozen, which took in around $250 million at the local box office, is one idea being proposed. That's bad news for HKDL.

[hakjie11]

It will eventually happen as we all know, WDC is not going to give any park an exclusivity especially on such a big IP. But even if the Tokyo expansion is approved it is going to be build starting around 2025 and takes at least 2 years to complete if not more. HKDL will have it at least 7 years by then and that is quite a long time. If everything is going smoothly HKDL probably would have announced plans for Gate 2 and we will forget about Frozen.

If I was WDC I would certainly favor my own parks first compared to a licensed park on the long term. I don't think WDC is happy that their own Licensee is taking the most profit using their own assets and enjoying the name as the best Asian Disney Park while their own invested parks are not living up to their expectation yet. Let's be honest, I think HKDL expansions lineup (Frozen, Marvel,...) are far better than TDL announced ones (Beauty Beast, Big Hero 6,...).

If you still remember, TDL initial expansion announcement originally included Frozen, but this was given to HKDL at the end. People say that it was because Oriental Land's parent company had to spend a lot of money building infrastructure for Olympics related works and therefore opted not to build Frozen, but clearly money has never been the issue here. Oriental Land wants everything WDC wants to give, but WDC is clearly reserving some good stuff for their other parks.
With Disney owning all parks partially or fully, I think Disney would secretly wish to buyout Oriental Land or take up majority of the ownership of it.
I think WDC is also using HKDL and SHDL to gradually pressure a deal with Oriental Land.

A recent example would be the ownership of Paris Disney.
Disney does not want to invest unless they bought out the park from the other shareholders.
They do not want other shareholders to benefit from the future improvements they are doing for the park and undoubtedly increase the Parks value.
WDC is seeking majority control in its parks to gain the most profit out of it.

If you think about it, WDC has used billions to buy Marvel and Star Wars. No way they are going to let a licensee enjoy its profits without bargaining for more and I seriously doubt Oriental Land original license contract includes rights to Marvel or Star Wars or any other recently acquired IP, more likely only Pixar and original Disney rights.

[Asa]

I think there are some wrong info in your post.

Disney does not invest in Paris because if WDC invests, then ALL investors, including all the little shareholders, must invest in equal share. That is very hard to do for a floated public company, additionally nobody wanted to invest in Disneyland Paris. It was and still is a loss making resort. Nobody wanted to own the shares they just wanted to get rid of them at a good price. That's what Bob Iger did, offered them a good price and took control of the whole thing.

Didn't you see that when WDC invest in HKDL, HK govt must invest as well? Because both are shareholders and to maintain the shareholding both parties must invest according to the % of their shares.

Oriental Land uses Disney license means they pay royalties regularly for the rights to the characters that they use. That means they can take any character in the Disney library as long as they want to use it, they just need to pay royalty. As long as the money is right Disney will license any character to Oriental Land. Star Tours and Indiana Jones are already being used in Tokyo. Marvel cannot be used in Tokyo because Universal already owns the right to all Marvel characters in Japan, when USJ opened Spider-man Ride.

WDC buys Oriental Land? I think it is not going to happen. WDI makes a lot of money from designing rides for TDR and WDC just sits there and collect royalties. The bigger TDR is, the more rides they need and the more money WDI makes and more royalties for WDC to collect, all the time promoting the Disney brand. Why would anyone want to change that? Hell, if I were Bob Iger then I would push for Oriental Land to build Arendelle, Star Wars Galaxy's Edge, Pandora (Avatar), new Toy Story Land and Cars Land and give me all your money.

[hakjie11]

Marvel cannot be used in Tokyo because Universal already owns the right to all Marvel characters in Japan, when USJ opened Spider-man Ride.

WDC can still use Marvel in Japan, only Spiderman is off limits.


Why WDC would want to buy Oriental Land?
Because it is good investment. Japan has proven to be a solid source of income and Disney is only getting 1/3rd of it.
International Park Royalties only make up 5-10% of the revenue depending on the type (food, merchandise, tickets,..) for TDL this was an average of 6.1% which equals to around 250M usd, which is of course a huge revenue just for licensing operation.
Design and Build payment, while contributing to the research of new rides for WDC, is a one time revenue for a ride of a brand that is there to stay for a very long time.
TDL resort made 500M usd "NET profit" this year for Oriental Land. Any multi-billion bid to take over the park is rectified.

[Asa]

WDC can still use Marvel in Japan, only Spiderman is off limits.

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201307/3558/.

I don't know what your sources are. But Theme Park Insider said Disney cannot use Marvel in Japan until 2020s at least. Universal probably has the option to extend it and Comcast/Universal will not be afraid to sue if Disney breaches it.

Why WDC would want to buy Oriental Land?
Because it is good investment.
Japan has proven to be a solid source of income and Disney is only getting 1/3rd of it.
International Park Royalties only make up 5-10% of the revenue depending on the type (food, merchandise, tickets,..) for TDL this was an average of 6.1% which equals to around 250M usd, which is of course a huge revenue just for licensing operation.
Design and Build payment, while contributing to the research of new rides for WDC, is a one time revenue for a ride of a brand that is there to stay for a very long time.
TDL resort made 500M usd "NET profit" this year for Oriental Land. Any multi-billion bid to take over the park is rectified.

It is good investment only at the right price. Also it does not mean Oriental Land will sell to Disney. Oriental Land will not sell itself off cheaply, why should they? If the price is too high then it stops to make sense for WDC. Hopefully you are not the type who buys stuff you want without looking at the price.

Anyway nobody wants Disney to buy OLC because OLC does a better job of running theme parks than Disney does. What makes you think WDC want to buy OLC anyway? I'd hate it if WDC took over OLC.

I don't even think Disney gets 1/3rd from Tokyo. Again, where is your source? AFAIK WDC don't get anything out of Tokyo except royalties.

Design and Build payment, while contributing to the research of new rides for WDI. It is good one time payment on the surface it seems. But the Tokyo resort has never actually stopped expanding, so it is actually a steady revenue stream.

Anyway I am not going to argue about this anymore. I think you are confused about why WDC bought Disneyland Paris. If you still think WDC will buy OLC then I will leave you there to hope and dream about it. I will not be holding my breath.

[hakjie11]

Hey Asa,


Its not an argue at all, any discussion to share with others is better than nothing, this is what this forum is made for right?
HKDL is seriously lacking in online activity forum-chatting on Micechat etc... so I hope others would join or create a topic to keep the forums for HKDL alive.

As for the info from my previous reply, I am not sure where exactly I read it for sure, but it was a website going through the Universal Park agreement and its wordings about the rights and limitations of using Marvel characters in its parks. It was a while ago, but it think this is the website where I got the info from or some other website talking about the same, anyway here is the link :
https://www.insideuniversal.net/2016...nd-disney-own/
( I am not sure whether this is a respectable website, but it seems to focus on Universal Parks in details)

The financial info (profit/revenue/% royalties) you can google on the financial websites if you are interested to dig deeper.

Of course nobody is willing to sell and buy at this moment. I was just sharing my "thoughts" about the possible relationship between WDC and OLC.
I agree that OLC is managing the park much better than WDC themselves. WDC could still learn a lot of things from OLC.

[manifest]

I agree that this forum is dead, which sucks.

My wife and I went here last year and fell in love with this place so I always come here hoping to read about the park (new/rumors/lore/trip reports) and get disappointed when there’s nothing new.

Seriously, post as much as you’d like...I’m reading it!

[hakjie11]

Thank you Manifest,

That is very encouraging for everyone who has ever contributed to HKDL forums.

I hope HKDL would release some more info/concept art of the other themed expansions soon so that we can discuss it again here.