Why oh why???

[TDLFAN]

Why build yet another unneeded DL park in Asia?? Boo hoo!!!

Why not call it SuperDL and add a supermarket to it, and pharmacy.

Did they not learn from the European fiasco?

[DisneySea_Fan]

Re: Why oh why???

The more the better

I do get your point though...

[dmtnt55]

Re: Why oh why???

It is going to be successful still!

[dead_Mau5]

Re: Why oh why???

I'm with TDLFAN on this one, all of this money should be going to poor baby HKDL.
Disney should instead,as its been said a millionth and one times before, build upon the parks they have and save up for the next big thing. And,mind you, the next big thing should be original and out of the box like a Disneyland Rio de Janeiro.

[tasman]

Re: Why oh why???

Disagree - IMO Shanghai DL will be the best thing Disney has done in a while.

It is probably also going to be the savior of HKDL, by giving the execs there the kick in the proverbial rear that they needed.

Ignoring the heart of what in a few decades will be the world's largest economy would be plain dumb on Disney's part.

[Asa]

Re: Why oh why???

Disney always wanted to build SHDL. Tung Chee-Hwa saw that and put a huge carrot in front of them to build HKDL. But the stupid thing was he never made any demands for HKDL's size, development plan, exclusivity...etc. So Disney built him a replica of Anaheim minus most of the attractions.

Disney has now got what it truly wanted in the first place.

[PennysBayChronicle]

Re: Why oh why???

Disney always wanted to build SHDL. Tung Chee-Hwa saw that and put a huge carrot in front of them to build HKDL. But the stupid thing was he never made any demands for HKDL's size, development plan, exclusivity...etc. So Disney built him a replica of Anaheim minus most of the attractions.

Disney has now got what it truly wanted in the first place.

IMHO, it was really a timing issue. It was a different scenario now than in 1999 when they (HK Gov and WDC) made an agreement on building HKDL Resort. The design and the pre-planning of HKDL was way back in late 1990's and early 2000's, and their forecast was based on previous visitors data. They never knew that Central Gov China relaxed the travel restrictions on mainland chinese to Hong Kong SAR after the 2003 SAR Crisis.Visitors to Hong Kong almost doubles over the past 10 years. Now it's almost 30 million per year. It was a miscalculation on their part and they have to pay a price for building it so small. Hong Kong has a huge foreign reserve now, in a much better financial position than they made the agreement with WDC in 1999. If they build HKDL now, the situation would definitely be different.

would history repeat itself, we'll have to wait and see.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Re: Why oh why???

And,mind you, the next big thing should be original and out of the box like a Disneyland Rio de Janeiro.

Mickey doesn't want the competition from pickpocketers.

[Orez]

Re: Why oh why???

I bet this is what many people thought of Tokyo Disney being built. Though at the end look where we have went with the brilliance and technology we have adapted from this Disney creation.

[ryno1986]

Re: Why oh why???

I don't know, I'm kind of excited. HKDL is not unique in any way. Even if it has charm and a good location, the design is all derivative or copied. I feel that Shanghai will be the true successor to Disneyland Paris, the next evolution of the Disneyland concept.

[DisneySea_Fan]

Re: Why oh why???

This new park certainly has potential! They have a good amount of space and money, and I'm sure they will think up some great ideas! The pollution will be a problem, though...

[TDR_Fan]

Re: Why oh why???

I don't know, I'm kind of excited. HKDL is not unique in any way. Even if it has charm and a good location, the design is all derivative or copied. I feel that Shanghai will be the true successor to Disneyland Paris, the next evolution of the Disneyland concept.

To be honest, I'm not sure if they will ever improve the Magic Kingdom model beyond what they designed in Disneyland Paris. That park was created when the WDC was unafraid to needlessly pour money over the smallest details. Until Tokyo DisneySea, Disneyland Paris was the most elaborate and lavish Disney park ever built. Both of those parks used only the finest materials (stone, marble, Italian tile, etc) during their construction and an incredible emphasis was placed on architecture and craftsmanship (especially in the case of Tokyo DisneySea).

That kind of spending just for the sake of theming is something we will probably never see in a Disney park again, and I believe even the OLC has regretted spending that much money just on the ornate architecture/design of their second gate. I have no doubt that Shanghai Disneyland will be impressive among the Magic Kingdoms, but I don't think it will top the visual richness and elegance of Disneyland Paris.

[tasman]

Re: Why oh why???

^^ I don't think a Disney park has to use such expensive materials to be great. The original in Anaheim doesn't...any theming which matches the quality of that park (except for current Tomorrowland) is just fine by me. Not that I mind the more expensive materials...

[Hathaway Browne]

Re: Why oh why???

OK, so its not great that they're going to expand in China while HKDL still has issues, but if SDL is its own park, (with its own visual style like Paris or completely unique theme like TDS) then surely its not a bad thing?

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Re: Why oh why???

I have no doubt that Shanghai Disneyland will be impressive among the Magic Kingdoms, but I don't think it will top the visual richness and elegance of Disneyland Paris.

What do you generally find in common in all products made in China?

Compared to items made in France, for example.

[WorldDisney]

Re: Why oh why???

I guess I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, sure I agree with TDLFAN and people in general that builing yet ANOTHER park when every last one they built in the last 8 years, minus TDS, is in trouble now and all needs serious attention is ludicrous to me. Have they NOT learned their lesson with the last few parks?? Especially since the one that is failing now is the one that is already in China now?

That said, IF the rumrs are true and they are really building a world class theme park like DLP, TDS, etc, then yes it could be a different story. I personnally have no problem if they build a Disney theme park in every country as LONG as they are built with the same care, craftmanship and innovation that they USE to build these parks. I never bought the argument that Disney parks are too special that only a very small minority of people deserve to have and enjoy them. That feels a little elistist to me (although its funny no one else would ever put elitist and theme parks in the same sentence lol) and I been to all the resorts multiple times. If they can give quality parks to the masses anywhere in the world, then great!!! I dont know how that makes park like the original, Epcot, TDS, etc less special just because there are similar ones in Latin America somewhere.

But what the real problem and what the OP alluded too, that these parks (and especially HKDL IMO) are just cheap cookie-cutter parks and it dilutes the brand in general. They are building them like you build Ikea furniture basically and IF thats what Shanghai is getting here, then I would be bothered with this too.

But I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until we find out more and yes if done right, then it could be a good thing, not just for China or Disney, but for us as well. What I mean by that is if SDL is an expansive, full day park from the outset again and this it turns out to be a hit, then maybe other parks from this point on will get the same treatment. They might finally realize the horrible half-day-make-it-worth-paying-full-price-for-10-years-later model is simply not the way to go since those are all failing and they will have one that is sucessful and thriving from the outset.

But, if this one flops too and big time, I suspect we wont see another Disny park built again for a very long time to come anyway.

[ChrisFL]

Re: Why oh why???

I disagree....simply due to the fact that it is going to be in a very different area than Hong Kong and Tokyo...despite their relative closeness, their potential audience is very different.

I do believe it's ironic though that HKDL is going to now move faster with its own plans in response to what is basically another park in the same company

[toonaspie]

Re: Why oh why???

My debbie downer view on this:

HKDL is already ruined. It's been ruined since it's opening and worst yet they planned and designed the park in such a way that would make serious expansion or improvements to the park very difficult. It's reputation will be downsized by the major plans for the major Shanghai park but they kinda brought it upon themselves. I guess it wont be so bad though. Now Hong Kong Disneyland will be kinda like a mini Disneyland. And the additional of a Shanghai park could ease crowded times (like holidays) at HKDL as chinese tourists spread out between the two or will even go to Tokyo Disney.

[tasman]

Re: Why oh why???

My debbie downer view on this:

HKDL is already ruined. It's been ruined since it's opening and worst yet they planned and designed the park in such a way that would make serious expansion or improvements to the park very difficult. It's reputation will be downsized by the major plans for the major Shanghai park but they kinda brought it upon themselves. I guess it wont be so bad though. Now Hong Kong Disneyland will be kinda like a mini Disneyland. And the additional of a Shanghai park could ease crowded times (like holidays) at HKDL as chinese tourists spread out between the two or will even go to Tokyo Disney.

I see where you're coming from but don't feel as pessimistic. Imagineers, when building HKDL, were faced with an el-cheapo budget, and decided to sacrifice quantity but not quality. Also, they maintained the coherent layout (hub and spoke) of the original Disneyland. There was sufficient room left for expansion and the expansion pads could connect to each other to the existing park in a meaningful way. Comparatively, in my opinion:

Disney-MGM - another park that initially sacrificed quantity but not quality. However, the layout is incoherent and there can be no expansion without tearing up existing structures.

Disney's California Adventure - initially sacrificed quality but not quantity. Now making up for quality but still with a poor layout and overall theme.

Walt Disney Studios Paris - built without quantity and without much quality, and hasn't improved a whole lot in either count. The layout is fatally flawed.

Compared to these three parks I think HKDL is much more well thought out and has much more potential for the future. The park that HKDL strikes me as being most similar to in all these respects is Animal Kingdom, my favorite park in Orlando.

If, in addition to Mystic Manor, two other unique and exceptional E-tickets are added in the next 10 years or so, and if in the next 10-15 years they build a truly exceptional second gate without any of the compromises that we saw with the first park, then I feel HKDLR can be salvaged and can hold its own again SHDLR.

[TDR_Fan]

Re: Why oh why???

I see where you're coming from but don't feel as pessimistic. Imagineers, when building HKDL, were faced with an el-cheapo budget, and decided to sacrifice quantity but not quality. Also, they maintained the coherent layout (hub and spoke) of the original Disneyland. There was sufficient room left for expansion and the expansion pads could connect to each other to the existing park in a meaningful way. Comparatively, in my opinion:

That may be true, but there is very little in Hong Kong Disneyland that stands out from a design/theming perspective. It may have copied many elements from the original Disneyland, but all the current lands are very ho-hum and forgettable in my opinion (including the very dated and unoriginal castle). Compared to say Disneyland Paris, where all the lands have their unique differences and charm. I know this will change somewhat with the upcoming expansion, but the current park holds neither amazing E-ticket attractions (like Disneyland and Tokyo Disneyland), nor superb theming and attention to detail (like Disneyland Paris).