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China Trip Report: Beijing-Shanghai 2011


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  • China Trip Report: Beijing-Shanghai 2011

    I'm currently in Beijing for six weeks for a study tour with my students. We're already on our 4th week, so I've got quite a bit to share. Nope, there's not SDL yet of course, but apart from the usual sights, I've tried to find traces of Disney in both cities.

    You see I don't speak Chinese, so I'm guessing on some of these things. We arrived late in the afternoon in late October after being delayed on the tarmac in Xiamen due to heavy dog in Beijing. Now, I knew Beijing would be foggy, hazy or smoggy, but I was not prepared for the extremely low visibility as we stepped out of the airport. It felt straight out of a Stephen King novel.

    The following day at Tiananmen Square proved to be equally grey.

    We took the subway to the very touristy Wangfujing, where I spotted this counterfeit Doreamon hawking...something. I couldn't tell what it was so I just snapped a picture of him.

    Wangfujing at night.

    Steamed buns!

    On the first night out, a mandatory Beijing feast!

    The fabled Beijing kao ya (a.k.a. Peking duck)!

    Outside, hawkers are hawking overpriced "exotic" snacks.

    These might be more up most people's liking, but apparently they're everywhere and cheaper too!

    We didn't know that at that time! Starfish tasted good! Fish and crunchy and spongy. Until I got to the center, which was rough, gritty, and sandy.

    Walking around the dorm, escaping our students.

    Some late night street food is in order!

    Pan grilled meats and vegetable skewers.

    Our first trip to the outskirts of Beijing was quite...revealing, especially this segment of the Great Wall at Mutianyu.

    Not quite as touristy as the more popular (and heavily "restored) Badaling, Mutianyu is pretty well-preserved and convenient for those who don't want to hike up. Hence the slightly crude lifts. Be careful as you disembark because it will not slow down. Still, I wouldn't recommend buying things there. A Chinese pancake called jian bing, which I buy for breakfast on the streets of Beijing for 4 RMB, sold for about 6 RMB at Mutianyu to my Chinese friend, but the hawker tried to charge me 45 RMB for mine! I promptly walked away in a huff. Although that was my only experience of a hawker trying to rip me off thus far. Everyone else has been really nice.

    Ah...the Great Wall! And the toboggan ride down on the left.

    The autumn leaves are bursting with color.

    Much more breathtaking than I could have imagined. I think he crisp autumn weather helps a lot.

    Peek-a-boo! That's me!


    Since we don't have autumn back at home, I'm still fascinated with the leaves.

    [ IMG] 2011/P1040374.jpg[/IMG]

    The way down. The ride was fun, but a little painful if you've got a backpack like me because you'll be stuck in an awkward position as you push down on the lever that speeds you up. There are people to help you along the way but they weren't very helpful. They'd shout at you to push, and weren't very friendly. Surprisingly, and disturbingly, they'll tell you to push and go faster even if the signs say slow down.

    For lunch, we moved down a bit near the foot of the Great Wall to a cluster of vacation homes, guesthouses, canteen, art space called The Schoolhouse. And it was beautiful. They used existing architecture and promoted sustainable tourism and business practices.

    A wild kitty.

    The American culture of the owners shine through in these beautiful jack-o'lanterns.

    On some days, we'd break up into small groups and let the students explore Beijing and I'd just tag along. We went to the Olympic Park, another definite must see.

    Model Bird's Nest at the visitor's center

    A new (?) temple

    Boys goofing off, hiyaah!

    Water Cube.

    Me in my HKDL shirt and my student in his favorite Buzz Lightyear shirt (seriously, he wears that a lot!).

    However, someone strange yet familiar caught my eye.

    It's fake Mickey!

    And fake Minnie!

    I got her to pose with me.

    After which she promptly charged me 10RMB. Minnie, those jeans aren't flattering on you.

    Streetwalker Minnie nabs another customer.

    And gets her fee, which she stuffs into her costume.

    Seeing double, two Minnies! Mickey's got a harem!

    Mickey noticed. Seems proud.

    We moved to San Li Tun, aka the Village, which is a high-end shopping area.

    With a huge Armani store.

    And a real Apple Store.

    On another day, we took another trip to another section of the Great Wall, we passed by a something I had seen before online, but did not expect to ever see in real life.

    Wonderland! The MK style theme park that never got finished!

    And yes, another one, Juyongguan. This one was very steep, and I didn't bother to climb all the way up.

    Yet another trip, we visited the Beijing Urban Planning Center.

    Another model of the National Stadium.

    They had a huge model of the entire city, complete with lights and narration and AR binoculars on the side.

    The outer part of Beijing not part of the model itself were represented through satellite/aerial photos aligned perfectly with the main model. Kinda makes one feel you're in an outlandish briefing room in spy movie or something.

    Stopped for lunch (more Kao Ya) and Jasmine Ice Cream at Qianmen!

    This it, the the Forbidden City!

    Um... a car entering the Forbidden City?

    I love that last line.

    The Science Museum had some nice mouse-y surprises.

    The DNA of humanity?

    Ancient Chinese contributions to science.

    Woohoo, some legit Mickey food products!

    Trash thrown into the display.

    Amazingly precise water jets writing/drawing patterns in the air.

    Maglev demonstration

    Chinese dinos.

    Passing the Olympic torch.

    Beijing Olympics, hiyaaah!

    An amazing cursor.

    M-I-C-K-EY M-O-U-S-E! I don't think this was part of the SDL deal.

    It was hazy at the National Stadium that day.

    Temple of Heaven! This ain't the China Pavilion at Epcot!

    I still want to go back to Epcot!

    I'll give updates next time, with Happy Valley Theme Park and Shanghai!
    Last edited by SirEdge; 11-26-2011, 05:58 PM.

  • #2
    Re: China Trip Report: Beijing-Shanghai 2011

    Cool pics. Thanks for the preview, I'll be there in about 10 days. How are the food prices, like comparing street food to restaurants?


    • #3
      Re: China Trip Report: Beijing-Shanghai 2011

      Great to see!

      How much time is needed to visit the wall if staying in central Beijing?
      Does it it take much time to get to the wall?


      • #4
        Re: China Trip Report: Beijing-Shanghai 2011

        Originally posted by 1Disneylandfan View Post
        Cool pics. Thanks for the preview, I'll be there in about 10 days. How are the food prices, like comparing street food to restaurants?
        Ten days? Where will you be staying? Food is really cheap. I'm Filipino and the peso has low buying power, but even I find the food here ridiculously cheap (unless you go to a fast food restaurant). But I imagine it's even cheaper if you're coming from dollars. Our favorite is yang rou chuan, the lamb kebabs. The real street food is 1 RMB (approx US$ 0.15). They're tiny and not filling, but you can easily get a dozen of them. There are more upscale versions of it I'm sure 3 RMB for a longer one at more established stores to about 35 RMB at a cantina type place. Ice cream mochi, plain vanilla at the corner store from the dorm, 0.5 RMB each (US$0.08). McDonald's is about 7 RMB for a cheeseburger and the burgers are small. Coldstone's basic Like It is at 30 RMB, Love it at 40 RMB, and Gotta Have It at 50 RMB. Peking duck is about 100 RMB for a decent restaurant to about 200-300 RMB at the more famous ones. My advise, go for the cheap one first and then see the difference, but most of us are happy with the cheaper ones.

        ---------- Post added 11-27-2011 at 02:08 AM ----------

        Originally posted by TimmyTimmyTimmy View Post
        Great to see! How much time is needed to visit the wall if staying in central Beijing? Does it it take much time to get to the wall?
        The wall is about a half day trip or so. Depending on which site you choose. It's about an hour and a half to about two hours. They're about 40-50 miles from Beijing. My favorite was obviously at Mutianyu. We left at 8:30 AM got there before lunch. Spent a couple of hours at the wall. Went down for lunch at the Schoolhouse (wonderful food by the way). Spent the rest of the afternoon there so the boys could interact with the one of the owners, an American named Julie, and the locals. The Schoolhouse - Home It's a little pricey, but I imagine many would find it worth the price. I'd definitely go back just to spend a night or two in one of their restored houses.
        Last edited by SirEdge; 11-26-2011, 05:16 PM. Reason: Removed double post.


        • #5
          Re: China Trip Report: Beijing-Shanghai 2011

          Originally posted by SirEdge View Post
          Ten days? Where will you be staying? Food is really cheap. I'm Filipino and the peso has low buying power, but even I find the food here ridiculously cheap (unless you go to a fast food restaurant). But I imagine it's even cheaper if you're coming from dollars. Our favorite is yang rou chuan, the lamb kebabs. The real street food is 1 RMB (approx US$ 0.15). They're tiny and not filling, but you can easily get a dozen of them. There are more upscale versions of it I'm sure 3 RMB for a longer one at more established stores to about 35 RMB at a cantina type place. Ice cream mochi, plain vanilla at the corner store from the dorm, 0.5 RMB each (US$0.08). McDonald's is about 7 RMB for a cheeseburger and the burgers are small. Coldstone's basic Like It is at 30 RMB, Love it at 40 RMB, and Gotta Have It at 50 RMB. Peking duck is about 100 RMB for a decent restaurant to about 200-300 RMB at the more famous ones. My advise, go for the cheap one first and then see the difference, but most of us are happy with the cheaper ones.
          I'm actually doing a tour so my accommodations are already taken care of but not all meals are included so I wanted a general idea of what things cost. I'm coming from the USA so I'll order some RMB currency before I leave so that I'll have some available when I first get there. I love lamb, so I'll definitely try out the kebabs. Thanks for the info and help. Also I'm assuming that ATM machines are easy to come by?


          • #6
            Re: China Trip Report: Beijing-Shanghai 2011

            Yup, they're pretty commonplace in Beijing. Credit cards are little more selective because UnionPay seems to be more widely accepted.

            Even people who don't like lamb because they can taste gamey, love the lamb kebabs here.


            • #7
              Re: China Trip Report: Beijing-Shanghai 2011

              ORDDU: Very nice trip report and I just LOVE your pictures. I still haven't looked at them all but will do so in time. For now I have to say I was very impressed with your steamed buns...


              • #8
                Re: China Trip Report: Beijing-Shanghai 2011

                Great TR! I loved that model of Beijing!


                • #9
                  Re: China Trip Report: Beijing-Shanghai 2011

                  I love scale models, I would have been staring at the city one for hours I bet!

                  Nice photos.
                  My Blog:

                  Parks Visited: MK - EPCOT - DHS - DAK - DL - DCA - HKDL - TDL - TDS


                  • #10
                    Re: China Trip Report: Beijing-Shanghai 2011

                    I've been to Beijing several times: you can't convey to someone who's never been there, or Mexico City, or any other horribly polluted place how awful the air is. It is almost always hazy and grayish/green. The air burns your throat and sinuses.

                    And the traffic jams are genuinely horrific.

                    If you can deal with those issues, you'll eat well and see some great sites. But, boy oh boy, am I glad they're building Disneyland in Shanghai instead of near Beijing.
                    Born in a shoebox and making the most of it.


                    • #11
                      Re: China Trip Report: Beijing-Shanghai 2011

                      Here's the second and last part of my Beijing-Shanghai trip. Have to rush this out so I could churn out part one of my Hong Kong Trip.

                      Midway through our six-week stay, we took a 5 day trip to Shanghai via train.

                      This is my cabin number in Sleeper car 2. I'm on bunk 29.

                      It was great 9 hour or so trip. The boys played cards all night.

                      This is my friend, Jake, after we had some early morning cupcakes and tea. We had just passed by Nanjing which means Shanghai's about an hour's ride away.

                      Nanjing Road, the famous shopping street of Shanghai. Looks like any pedestrian shopping district I've seen in Europe, except for the Chinese bits.

                      The architecture is definitely European. No surprises there given Shanghai's history.

                      Hey, I know that red bus!

                      After the boys went on a truncated shopping spree, and they would insist on coming back for H&M, we went to the Pearl Tower.

                      Inside the lobby was cavernous, and a little oddly kitschy in aesthetics, but that lion statute guarding the high-speed elevators was pretty dang impressive.

                      Alas, we picked the wrong day to go up.

                      Hong Kong is that way.

                      And Beijing is a thousand kilometers north.

                      And the highlight was the glass viewing deck, and it was not for the acrophobic.

                      I, however, am mildly acrophobic, so I was able to overcome my fear by initially closing my eyes while I let my feet confim that the floor was indeed solid. However, once I opened my eyes I either grabbed onto the railing and then scampered off to the center onto the more concrete surface.

                      As time went by, I became more courageous and stepped onto the platform again and again. This time with my eyes wide open, and had the time of my life.

                      When we were about to leave, I grabbed three students so we could snap this one last shot. No real time to focus, just looked down and got this.

                      Back at the lobby there was a wax museum on the history of Shanghai. It did not interest our teenage wards who pretty much briskly walked to toward the exit, while the teachers drunk in the atmosphere of old Shanghai.


                      I don't think that English bit is historically accurate, but then again I could be wrong.

                      Multicultural court.

                      The assimilation of Western painting techniques.

                      How do you solve a problem like...

                      ...the red light district.

                      Nanjing Road of old.

                      Beijing opera in Shanghai.

                      Outside the giant kitschy Pearl tower. I have to stop myself from making inappropriate comments about it.

                      Ah. My biggest frustration. Behind the rain-spattered window of the bus is a high end shopping mall (like Apple Store high-end), is the a faux-Cinderella castle put up for Christmas. Alas, you'll have to take my word for it.

                      The next day, the temperature dropped by about 10 degrees, and now hovered for the rest of the trip at about 15 ℃ (59 ℉ )

                      Breakfast in the hotel was heaven-sent. We stayed in a 4-star hotel so it had both Chinese and Western breakfasts available. While the food in Beijing is wonderful, breakfast usually consisted of fried bread, fried rice, and Chinese cabbage. While we Filipinos prefer our breakfast heavy and with rice, we also love our processed meat. Ham, hotdogs, bacon and the like. Shanghai allowed us to have bacon, eggs scrambled or sunny side up, two kinds of breakfast sausages, and cereal.

                      In the next few days, we went to the water village of Zhujiajao. Apparently famous among reality TV nuts, as I am told, as a pitstop for the Amazing Race. I didn't really care about that, but more for the charm that the town exuded. Although it is currently developing into a more touristy area with waterside cafes with free Wi-Fi.

                      It was still slick.

                      Everyone loves a boat ride!

                      That's not the Rialto Bridge, but close enough.

                      We also visited the Shanghai Urban Planning Center.

                      Still impressive. Not as massive as Beijing, but less kitschy as well.

                      Guess who I saw on the way up the escalator?

                      I immediately went up to see Shanghai's plans for tourism and while there was no explicit mention of Disneyland, I did find a couple of hints here and there.

                      FIrst, CATS! Yeah, it had an Asian tour a couple of years back, and there's definitely a market for Western entertainment in Shanghai and there is a solid government initiative to bring such entertainment over.

                      And look at section B. "Working energetically for the settlement of world-class theme parks in Shanghai."

                      Bingo! And how could miss that picture they chose to display.

                      We also had a surprise tour of the Shanghai branch of
                      Madame Tussaud's wax museum. The surprise bit was because it wasn't in our budget, but either our host school in Beijing or the Shanghai organizers threw it into our itinerary anyway.

                      One of our administrators testing if Yao Ming's hair was real...


                      I couldn't resist trying to take Madge's bling. Although at first I though she was a long-haired Sue Sylvester.

                      Ever the glamorous Nicole.

                      I think I was posing with the wrong figure.

                      I never got to inappropriately hug a president before.

                      I don't think that Lady Di was too pleased with me.

                      It's Prince William...with hair!

                      Aaron Kwok, he's famous. I see his posters everywhere in Hong Kong.

                      Once the kids were settled in their hotel rooms, because the lobby's Wi-Fi was no longer free after a specific time, some teachers went out for a late night Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf at the high-end shopping & entertainment district Xintiandi, which is filled expats and locals alike.

                      But apparently, not on a Saturday night.

                      The following day started with a trip to the Shanghai Science museum, which was not as big as Beijing, but more more intelligently and tastefully themed.

                      The lioness pounces for the kill.

                      The rainforest area.

                      Human ear cloned on the back of the mouse.

                      Car factory robots dancing.

                      We followed it up with a trip to the tomb of the imperial scientist that our school got it's Chinese name from, Xu Guangqi.

                      Here with his Jesuit friend and scientist, Matteo Ricci.

                      Xu Guangqi.

                      And since it's Sunday, we went to church.

                      Not sure if you can see it but there were a lot of Chinese couples having their pre-nuptial pictures taken in front of the Catholic church. Most of them are not Christians, but it's fascinating how Western culture, in this case the icons of Western weddings - the white wedding gowns and the churches or chapels, have made their way into modern Chinese sensibilities.

                      We visited a successful Filipino snack food company so that our kids can learn how to penetrate the Chinese market. Here I am with my loot.

                      We took the train back to Beijing later the evening. And we were happy to be back to the much colder climate (and free Internet access in the dorms).

                      Our last weeks in Beijing were spent with more exploration days, with the 798 Art District being one of the highlights.

                      For one, European style restaurants and pubs abound. I chose Timezone 8 where I had a nice breakfast with eggs, bacon, and black coffee, which actually became brunch for me.

                      Free Wi-Fi helped make the meal even better.

                      Around the former industrial area, art installations from the zany to the political and from to the realistic to the abstract line the streets, pop out from corners, and inhabit the galleries.

                      You'll notice that red, unsurprisingly, is a common motif used and re-appropriated, by the artists.

                      Mickey, I didn't expect to see you...


                      Junk Transformers sculpture.

                      Keeping the wolves at bay.

                      A Korean artist's war installation

                      Venus de Milo in red.

                      We were invited by one of our school's alumni, who is (or was) the Thomson Reuters bureau chief in Beijing, to their office.

                      Picture taking is not allowed in the lobby, but not inside the office itself.

                      I can't read Chinese.

                      Another place we frequented in the last two weeks was the Houhai area, which is a lakeside recreation, restaurant, and shopping area popular with tourists by day, and locals and expats by night.

                      Which by day, is where apparently a Disney character sidelines for a churrasco resident with a friend that I cannot determine who.

                      Tigger! Why has it come to this?

                      These lakes are beautiful and you can rent bikes to ride through the hutongs (old courtyard homes of Beijing). Unfortunately, many of these hutongs are not original anymore because the government, in an attempt to preserve and improve their culture, razes the old ones down and raises new ones in the old style.

                      Houhai by day. Water's pretty cold.

                      In one of the side streets is the terrific Hutong Pizza. The boys loved the calzone.

                      Houhai at night.

                      Restaurant rows.

                      On our last two weeks, the lake was already largely frozen, save for some areas in the middle.

                      Street vendors sell novelty toys to unsuspecting tourist. While uh creepy, harassing men, push their female wards on you.

                      In early December, on our way to the Summer Palace, I received a call from a friend who now teaches in a city 300 km south of Beijing. She said it was snowing. Now, I know for most people snow is no big deal, but as Filipinos we don't get that. And after almost a century of indoctrination from Hollywood, we have come to relate snow with Christmas. So yeah, it was big deal. My only previous experience of it was seeing it afar on the Bavarian alps, and outside of my train window as it fell in the Rocky Mountains.

                      Alas, I didn't snow that day, but it was still consistently below zero.

                      The Summer Palace with its sheer size is probably best explored in the spring or summer, and not in the late autumn/early winter, but it had its charms. Primarily it not being too crowded.

                      Imperial yellow-roofed boats rest during the winter.

                      The famous stone boat. Money for China's army/navy was used to construct this imperial symbol of power and frivolity. Yes, it's just a building in the shape of a boat.

                      We took the bridge to cross to an island at 4pm.

                      And it soon got too dark to take decent photos.

                      The Military Museum is wall to wall military paraphernalia, war machines, propaganda, crammed into a Soviet style government building. It's free to enter. Not my cup of tea, but provides great insight into China.

                      Mao welcomes you.

                      I like the Communist art more than the actual artifacts within.

                      On our last full Sunday in Beijing, we went out for a steak dinner.

                      That's steak with cheese, egg and macaroni. Chinese-style.

                      I dug it anyway since there isn't much cheese in China. Apparently it's not a very popular flavor even among snack foods.

                      We visited some retired priests and nuns in their nursing home, and it began to snow!

                      I finally got to use my camera's snow mode!

                      That's their building at the back of the church.

                      It was also my first time to see a snow dusted pile of garbage.

                      Speaking of Christmas, right beside our school is a shopping building called Tian Yi. It's a bargain type shopping building with stalls instead of proper stores, but it's much cheaper than the touristy Pearl or Silk markets. You won't find China/Beijing souvenirs here because this is where locals shop for bargains.

                      What's so special about it is that it's themed to Christmas, or at least one Chinese interpretation of Christmas.

                      Let me illustrate.

                      Christmas tree? Check.

                      Santa? Check. Nutcracker? Check.

                      Stars? Check.

                      Frozen moon? Fair enough. Check.

                      Reindeer? Check.

                      Cow? Check.

                      Scary Santa? Check.

                      Chinese pig deity? Check. Karaoke tiger? Check.

                      Nutcrackers? Check. Bunnies? Check.

                      Animal heads? Check.

                      Tiger, polar bear, American bald eagle? Triple check. Don't forget the ribbon and bells.

                      Chinese deities? Check. Monkey king? Check.

                      I can't say much more about it.

                      Just before we left, I sent the kids on a wild goose hunt at The Beijing Center, a Jesuit run library in Beijing which has the largest collection of English language books in China, and home to many priceless artifacts, manuscripts, and banned books.

                      And I saved the best for last.

                      Beijing Happy Valley!

                      Happy Valley is a series of amusement parks in China like Six-Flags. They invest in the same kinds of coasters that other theme parks do. For example their flying coaster is made by Bolliger & Mallibard, the same company that made Superman Ultimate Flight, and is in fact the same coaster minus the Superman theme.

                      Here's full-size map of Happy Valley.

                      The park itself is pretty impressive. Some parts are adequately themed with some nice details, but it's really the coasters that shine.

                      Especially their newest one, the Extreme Rusher, which is a launch coaster which hurls its passengers at more than 80 mph.

                      That's me with the my hands up. It was a struggle to keep them up.

                      In the Antland, which is poorly executed attempt at a Bug's Life, costumed characters gambol about.

                      Including the devil.

                      On top of the trash can. I don't undersand why.

                      The ladies can't seem to be bothered to put out their cigarettes when posing with that..thing.

                      But best of all, all this excitement happens to the tune of a happy song.

                      During summers apparently they have parades.

                      Which includes a nighttime parade with glowing vehicles with electric bug floats. No comment.

                      Crystal Wings in Atlantis as seen from the Ant Kingdom or whatever it's called.

                      The boys and I had tons of fun nonetheless.

                      I'm happy to report that everyone locals and foreigners alike lined up properly for everything. No line cutting incidents at all during our visit.

                      Some yellow-purple hanging coaster which made my head hurt.

                      As opposed to failing spelling I suppose.


                      Um Mayan land I think?

                      Mayan and Atlantis. I think the pyramid spouts water in the summer.

                      Atlantis's mountain, which is a hint of a very nicely themed land.

                      I suppose that's like a Virgin Cafe.

                      Wait, what was that?

                      It's the Flight of the Phoenix coaster!

                      The queue has themeing!

                      On the unused part of the tracks lies a jacket and a spray can.

                      Uh. Well. Thunder Mountain much? Then again, BTM wasn't the first mine train ride anyway, right?

                      Just before the loading area, a little girl left her sticker on the floor.

                      Likely a counterfeit Belle sticker.

                      Some Chinese ethnic group. I apologize for my lack of knowledge in this matter.

                      The gods must be crazy.

                      Or angry.

                      At this lackluster and senseless show. At least it had lots of water.

                      Crazy signs.

                      More crazy signs.

                      The Acropolis in the distance. I sense Greeks on the horizon for later in the day.

                      I hope Dora lives there.

                      I don't have Twrty yuan.

                      Speakers in an open trunk.

                      Ah Atlantis at last.

                      Why is Atlantis a mountain? Why does it have a flying coaster? Maybe it was before it sunk?

                      Either way, wonderful details are scattered about this central hub of the park.

                      It'a a little empty, but the details that are there are beautiful.

                      On to Greece!

                      But first, a toiled break.

                      That UFO thing, I think is part of Atlantis.

                      That's the Trojan horse's butt.

                      A crazy ride I didn't dare try.

                      A half-themed flume ride...

                      The Journey of Odyssey. Uh, okay.

                      Empty queue with partial themeing.

                      Inside the boats.

                      The start of the ride as seen from the boats.

                      I don't know why people would do that.

                      And we were soaked. Not kidding. The splash is not a splash. It's a huge ball of water that envelopes you and then drenches you to your underwear, even when we were wearing ponchos. And at 3

                      Overall, Happy Valley was a blast. It showed that the Chinese have a relatively deep appreciation for theme parks already. Themeing is not quite as sophisticated as Disney or Universal, but it's certainly much better than most, especially when they want to.

                      Last edited by SirEdge; 12-30-2011, 09:26 PM.


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