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  • Re: TDR's future!

    Originally posted by rushtest4echo View Post
    Seriously, what's with all of the gnashing of teeth over clones all of the time? They save money, they're usually superior rides to begin with and let's be honest- less than 1% of visitors will ever visit another international park that has a cloned version of a US ride. I'm so glad rides like the Haunted Mansion, Thunder Mountain, Small World and Pirates were cloned by "lazy WDI and penny pinching accountants" instead of new attractions. I'm glad that everyone around the world has those top notch attractions to enjoy. Here's hoping for more (good) clones. I want Mystic Manor, I want half of TDS's attraction lineup! Please rip out MILF for DCA or TDL's monsters! I like Seven Dwarfs (cloned from SDL). More clones, please.
    The irony is that Mystic Manor exists because they DID NOT clone Haunted Mansion to HKDL. HKDL opened its doors as a Disneyland clone and that was its largest problem. It paled in comparison and could never be a suitable copycat "on the cheap". Now that it branched away suddenly it went from an inferior clone to having the attraction that fans are frothing at the mouth over.

    There is no lack of ideas and creativity at WDI. Why aim for the known when you can get something new and unique? If all the parks are uniform across the Disney brand, what's the point in visiting foreign parks?

    Before you say that's not representative of the general public... we aren't the general public. We are arguing from the 1%-er vantage point of the fans. That's the reason for the teeth gnashing.

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    • Re: TDR's future!

      Originally posted by rushtest4echo View Post
      Seriously, what's with all of the gnashing of teeth over clones all of the time? .
      I have no idea? I would love for the new port to be a new venture such as Arendelle but I also wouldn’t mind if they attempted to bring a “version of Radiator Springs”which doesn’t necessarily mean a copy paste clone.

      I guess what should be taken into consideration is the improvement of the already amazing DisneySea, personally speaking the main two aspects where OLC can improve the park is
      1) Congestion
      2) Attractions
      The new port will address both issues, by having an extra port that means crowds will be more spread out and also of course this would entail the inclusion of new attractions in the new port, however in terms of existing attractions Port Discovery and Arabian Coast require some attention and something new.

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      • Re: TDR's future!

        Originally posted by Roger55 View Post
        Blue Bayou is part of Adventureland.

        Adventureland | Tokyo Disneyland
        I know. I just want to say that they try to keep the table service restaurants close to the entrance. I know World Bazaar and Tokyo Orleans Square is in Adventureland, but I still see it as a part of World Bazaar. )

        Same with DisneySea, All the table service restaurants stick to AW and Mediterranean Harbor

        Visit my pages (Nikkoap92) for lots of pictures from Tokyo Disney Resort ^_^


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        • Re: TDR's future!

          Originally posted by BrianLo View Post
          Before you say that's not representative of the general public... we aren't the general public. We are arguing from the 1%-er vantage point of the fans. That's the reason for the teeth gnashing.
          Understandable, all fan communities act this way. The good thing is that most of the time these communities are largely ignored by the company since the fans would have run the business into the ground long ago. Imagine what WDW's Magic Kingdom or Tokyo Disneyland would have looked like and cost if they had to do every attraction from scratch. Honestly I don't even know if they would have been built if that was a necessary step. The only truly unique Magic Kingdom was Paris, and we see what it cost for them to do so and it's killed them financially ever since.

          Of course I'm all for innovation and all for unique attractions. But it's just bad business to try and create unique experiences for that 1% of the people that will notice- especially when the parks are in different countries. I think Hong Kong's issues had less to do with having clones than the fact that the park was tiny, and only had 2-3 hours with of viable rides to go on when it opened. Unique or not, Grizzly Mountain, Toy Story Land and Mystic Manor are all fantastic additions- but throwing in Everest, Toy Story Mania and Phantom Manor probably would have been just as successful (if not more).

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          • Re: TDR's future!

            Originally posted by rushtest4echo View Post
            Understandable, all fan communities act this way. The good thing is that most of the time these communities are largely ignored by the company since the fans would have run the business into the ground long ago. Imagine what WDW's Magic Kingdom or Tokyo Disneyland would have looked like and cost if they had to do every attraction from scratch. Honestly I don't even know if they would have been built if that was a necessary step. The only truly unique Magic Kingdom was Paris, and we see what it cost for them to do so and it's killed them financially ever since.

            Of course I'm all for innovation and all for unique attractions. But it's just bad business to try and create unique experiences for that 1% of the people that will notice- especially when the parks are in different countries. I think Hong Kong's issues had less to do with having clones than the fact that the park was tiny, and only had 2-3 hours with of viable rides to go on when it opened. Unique or not, Grizzly Mountain, Toy Story Land and Mystic Manor are all fantastic additions- but throwing in Everest, Toy Story Mania and Phantom Manor probably would have been just as successful (if not more).
            I won't argue against the pragmatism or business sense of what you're saying, but it's interesting to note that Iger and Staggs have taken the opposite tack with respect to Shanghai. While DLP upped the ante in materials/detail/artistry and re-worked attractions like Pirates, Big Thunder and HM, the ride systems used were all proven. DLP was originally budgeted at $1.9 billion (in 2014 dollars), but exploded to $7.5 billion over its development.

            Shanghai could have been comprised of entirely clones (like TDL mostly was) - even skipping everything used in the competing HKDL - and been an impressive park. This likely would have been much less expensive and quicker to build. But not only is Shanghai installing new versions of classic attractions like Pan (as noted by Staggs in an interview), it's also introducing completely new ride systems, like the jetpacks and pirates water emv or ones never done by Disney (indoor bike launch coaster). It's initial budget was $4.3 billion (dwarfing DLP's) and that's already been increased by $0.8 billion. SDL will have its clones or near-clones (like Pooh, the spinners, Soarin), but also a lot of unique content.

            I'm glad Disney's apparently forgone the less risky, clone-dominant strategy (used in pre-opening HK and Tokyo) in Shanghai. Time will tell if it makes business sense in that market.
            Last edited by RandySavage; 11-13-2014, 10:55 AM.

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            • Re: TDR's future!

              I've been to WDW & DL to many times to start counting now. I've also been to Disneyland Paris 3 times and Tokyo Disney resort about 15 times. I've yet to visit Hong Kong- but hope to soon.

              I agree and love the fact that Shanghai is designing newer attractions and improving on existing ones.

              Yes, when the OLC approached the Disney Company, TDL originally was originally designed to have the best of WDW and DL attractions- and when it opened it was a hit in Japan and has hardly slowed down since. But back then it was, to me at least, just another Disney park in Japan. In the early years, I had no desire to travel around the world to visit something I could easily see in WDW or DL.

              I am really looking forward to the expansion of Fantasyland and hope they just don't just copy much of what they have already done in Florida.

              The only new thing that opened there was the Winnie the Pooh attraction which was one of the only original attractions added there. Then Disney Sea came along, which changed everything- an all new and original park with exclusive attractions & a few borrowed ones as well. This now gave a real reason to go to Japan to check it all out. I was somewhat excited when Toy Story Mania opened there recently- but after waiting a few hours to experience it there- only to find out there was no difference in the attraction itself, I don't even bother riding it there any more since I can ride it in WDW or DL. The same goes for Talk Turtle with Crush that was randomly dropped into the NY Waterfront area- I saw it the opening day & had no reason to ever go back again.

              I had no real desire to ever go to Hong Kong either when it first opened- the only real difference there was a newly designed Jungle Cruise. Not a real reason to want to go. Now it's more appealing with the 3 new areas that have opened. I am looking forward to visiting there soon now since there are newer things to see there that I can't see here. If all of a sudden they decide to drop a Mystic Manor in WDW or DL, I would have no reason to want to visit Hong Kong any more.

              These examples are why I am not too thrilled about cloning attractions in every park- and is why I think each park should be unique in it's own way. There is a reason to go and visit then.

              I like what they did in Paris, while most of the attractions were based on the original classics, they were different. They also added new attractions that were unique to it too. My gripe is that they need much better maintenance there.

              I'm looking forward to Shanghai as well since I'm sure will take things to a new level of Disney parks.

              So I still hope that all of the Disney parks around the world will eventually add unique attractions to keep things fresh and new and not having the need to have the same experience at every park.

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              • Re: TDR's future!

                I am all for unique attractions. In 2013 I went to TDR and I spent only 5 hours in TDL to ride Pooh's Hunny Hunt, Monsters Inc and Star Tours 2, we also saw the Electrical Parade. We did not care much about the other rides in the park. Then I spent the next day entirely in DisneySea for the unique experiences.

                In 2014 I went to California and I spent the entire day in DCA to try Cars Land and so on. I did not step into DL at all. Most of the rides there I've got back home in HKDL anyway. My relatives said they even found it hard to get a 1-day 1 park ticket for us.

                I only want the new ride experiences. My wife feels the same. I am not going to buy these expensive Disney tickets to ride clones.

                When HKDL first opened, it was not just small, it had a fatal flaw in that it did not have a signature attraction. All the attractions that opened with the park are run of the mill clones.
                Last edited by Asa; 11-13-2014, 11:47 PM.
                Jul 1992: Disneyland Paris
                Apr 2006: Hong Kong Disneyland
                Jul 2010: Disneyland and Disney's California Adventure
                Mar 2011: Hong Kong Disneyland
                Jul 2013: Tokyo Disneyland and Tokyo DisneySea
                Sep 2013: Hong Kong Disneyland
                Jul 2014: Disney California Adventure

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                • Re: TDR's future!

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                  Now this is what I am interested to experience.

                  Who knows, next time I visit California I might skip DLR altogether and visit Knott's Berry Farm instead.
                  Jul 1992: Disneyland Paris
                  Apr 2006: Hong Kong Disneyland
                  Jul 2010: Disneyland and Disney's California Adventure
                  Mar 2011: Hong Kong Disneyland
                  Jul 2013: Tokyo Disneyland and Tokyo DisneySea
                  Sep 2013: Hong Kong Disneyland
                  Jul 2014: Disney California Adventure

                  Comment


                  • Re: TDR's future!



                    The wait is killing me!



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                    • Re: TDR's future!

                      ^ Actually even more visitors are "local". 96% of TDR's visitors are from Japan. It's just such a poor argument to think that people on this forum, or any international visitors, would ever influence Tokyo Disney's decision making on whether or not to have "unique" new attractions or to simply use clones. If a unique ride costs twice as much to build, and the returns don't equal twice as much in the long run, then it's simply a poor business decision. Again, this isn't a WDW vs DLR "but I've already been on that ride" comparison, this is an isolated park in an isolated country with a populace that floods the parks simply to buy a new version of Duffy. I'm sure almost zero percent of their visitors would ever say "I'm not going to Tokyo Disneyland for their new attraction because Walt Disney World already has one". Which is why Potterland at Universal was a smash hit despite being a carbon copy of Orlando's not counting Dragons. I get that a couple of hundred dedicated Disney nerds in Japan or here in the US may not visit a park halfway around the world because the new attraction isn't unique, but I'm willing to guess that those specific visitors make up less than .01% of the visitors. Literally less than 100 Tokyo/US international visitors a day have the opinion some of the people here are expressing. I'm sure those numbers are different between Europe and WDW (especially in the UK), but between Japan and the US? Nobody...

                      TDS is a perfect example of why clones are totally fine. Their Tower of Terror makes DL/DCA's look like cheap impostor knock offs in comparison. Their Toy Story Mania is superb, their Indiana Jones is superior in every way and even Raging Spirits is a decent upgrade for Paris's piece of trash. Of course I adore Sindbad, 20k Leagues and Journey and I'm glad to have those top notch attractions, but does anyone honestly believe that Tokyo Disneysea wouldn't be just as popular if those attractions were brought here to the states? Would anyone be complaining if they just axed Avatar land at Animal Kingdom and built Mysterious Island instead? I'd be overjoyed for those "clones"! Heck, I'm still holding out hope that one day DisneySea will be brought to WDW (Indy's different enough from Dinosaur anyway- lots of rides use the same ride system around WDW). Replace Tower of Terror and Toy Story Mania with Mystic Manor and some other clone and I'm be a happy camper.

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                      • Re: TDR's future!

                        Whenever they clone a ride at the Tokyo Disney Resort, OLC always spends more money on it than the Walt Disney Company does in the parks it owns. All the audio-animatronic figures are plussed, or a higher level of figure with more fluid movement (such as Captain Barbossa in Pirates of the Caribbean at Tokyo Disneyland, who is the same level of AA as the Wicked Witch in The Great Movie Ride, and not the stiff dummy as in Anaheim). OLC always does everything better, so skipping rides because you think that they're the same is never a good idea.
                        Born in a shoebox and making the most of it.

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                        • Re: TDR's future!

                          I go to all parks and I ride all rides (ok I do not have plans to visit DLP ever again)... but the ones in Tokyo are best most of the time... even if they are clones.

                          But it is always nice to have a park full of rides one has never been on. MORE UNIQUE STUFF PLEASE!

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                          • Re: TDR's future!

                            I'm interested in the rendering of the relocated 'it's a small world'....this looks like a huge upgrade to Tokyo's version of the attraction. Its a radical concept to relocate it, but could have big advantages. I doubt the rumors of a restaurant there, since the press release promises there will be a new restaurant along the parade route...probably placing that in the current Tomorrowland Terrace space; a very sensible remodel, perhaps integrating a multi-princess meetNgreet? (And seriously, who could listen to that wonderful song several more times while eating?) But what IASW certainly shows is a huge glass roof! The Tokyo version of this charming ride has always been kinda dark and funky, particularly the long complicated entry/exit areas. Imagine the possibilities of brightening up the interior, while still providing enclosure from weather. More light, more water, better location. Disneyland's works delightfully, WDW's not so much...to me this looks like the Japanese owners vastly improving their old "clone" over the stale retread in Hong Kong, and apparent absence from Shanghai.
                            sigpic


                            "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money."
                            - - Walt Disney

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                            • Re: TDR's future!

                              I highly doubt the skylight roof you see will flood down into Small World. It's more likely that this will be the roof of a new restaurant on top of the ride, which would explain why the roof of the building is so high.

                              Re the new Alice thingy where Small World will have been: you can clearly see Alice's house among the pink flowers/trees, so it is not a multiple princess meet and greet. I'm getting on a really superior Alice ride. The Japanese are nuts for Alice.

                              The version of Small World in Hong Kong is not a "stale retread." It is as valid as the version of the ride at any Disney park. Most folks going to Hong Kong Disneyland are not visiting any Disney parks in the US, so it's not hugely likely they will have seen Small World.
                              Born in a shoebox and making the most of it.

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                              • Re: TDR's future!

                                Originally posted by jedimaster7313 View Post
                                I've been to WDW & DL to many times to start counting now. I've also been to Disneyland Paris 3 times and Tokyo Disney resort about 15 times. I've yet to visit Hong Kong- but hope to soon.

                                I agree and love the fact that Shanghai is designing newer attractions and improving on existing ones.

                                Yes, when the OLC approached the Disney Company, TDL originally was originally designed to have the best of WDW and DL attractions- and when it opened it was a hit in Japan and has hardly slowed down since. But back then it was, to me at least, just another Disney park in Japan. In the early years, I had no desire to travel around the world to visit something I could easily see in WDW or DL.

                                I am really looking forward to the expansion of Fantasyland and hope they just don't just copy much of what they have already done in Florida.

                                The only new thing that opened there was the Winnie the Pooh attraction which was one of the only original attractions added there. Then Disney Sea came along, which changed everything- an all new and original park with exclusive attractions & a few borrowed ones as well. This now gave a real reason to go to Japan to check it all out. I was somewhat excited when Toy Story Mania opened there recently- but after waiting a few hours to experience it there- only to find out there was no difference in the attraction itself, I don't even bother riding it there any more since I can ride it in WDW or DL. The same goes for Talk Turtle with Crush that was randomly dropped into the NY Waterfront area- I saw it the opening day & had no reason to ever go back again.

                                I had no real desire to ever go to Hong Kong either when it first opened- the only real difference there was a newly designed Jungle Cruise. Not a real reason to want to go. Now it's more appealing with the 3 new areas that have opened. I am looking forward to visiting there soon now since there are newer things to see there that I can't see here. If all of a sudden they decide to drop a Mystic Manor in WDW or DL, I would have no reason to want to visit Hong Kong any more.

                                These examples are why I am not too thrilled about cloning attractions in every park- and is why I think each park should be unique in it's own way. There is a reason to go and visit then.

                                I like what they did in Paris, while most of the attractions were based on the original classics, they were different. They also added new attractions that were unique to it too. My gripe is that they need much better maintenance there.

                                I'm looking forward to Shanghai as well since I'm sure will take things to a new level of Disney parks.

                                So I still hope that all of the Disney parks around the world will eventually add unique attractions to keep things fresh and new and not having the need to have the same experience at every park.
                                You're certainly not the average person. Most people have neither the means or desire to travel to all the Disney parks around the world. I do a lot of travelling but when I was in France and Japan I never even thought of going to a Disney park. So clones are fine as long as they are clones from outside of the country/region. In other words, I do not see the problem of cloning a ride from an Asia park in the states, or one from Paris being built in Asia or DLR. Since Paris and Orlando share some of the same market I wouldn't do there. But obviously, no one in Burbank asked me.

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                                • Re: TDR's future!

                                  There doesn't seem to be a huge overlap between Disneyland and Walt Disney World visitors. I wonder what the actual percentage is?
                                  Born in a shoebox and making the most of it.

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                                  • Re: TDR's future!

                                    Is peter pan in Fantasyland going to have the same new technology that is being developed in California remember Tokyo Disneylands Peter Pan is up for a long refurbishment i mean 7 months.

                                    Comment


                                    • Re: TDR's future!

                                      Originally posted by Fukai View Post
                                      There doesn't seem to be a huge overlap between Disneyland and Walt Disney World visitors. I wonder what the actual percentage is?
                                      I do not know what the percentage is, but almost everyone in the Northeast, Atlantic Coast, Southeast, and Midwest has been to Disney World, and those few who haven't will most likely eventually go. Europeans also like to go to Disney World. The majority of these people will never go to Disneyland because they see it as a smaller, harder to get to version of Disney World (and their point can be seen with all the ride clones and all). California and the surrounding West Coast states are the bulk of the Disneyland visitors, and the states in Great Plains area tend to be split on where they go. Disneyland visitors will probably also go to Disney World at least once because it is bigger in size and has more to offer. Disneyland therefore relies more on locals.

                                      So in conclusion, the majority of Disney World visitors will not go to Disneyland, but a good amount of Disneyland visitors will go to Disney World (at some point). This does not answer the percentage overlap, but I hope it helps.

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                                      • Re: TDR's future!

                                        As of Today OLC will have an announcement on Price increase and many announcements regarding their financial report. and some hints regarding the expansion and special entertainment offerings coming to the park.

                                        Comment


                                        • Re: TDR's future!

                                          You're going to pay a lot more for a 4-day passport starting in April! Fortunately, still a bargain compared to US park ticket prices.
                                          Born in a shoebox and making the most of it.

                                          Comment

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