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What was wrong with Main Street?

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  • What was wrong with Main Street?

    Why did they feel they had to name it "World Bazaar". Just because they had it covered? I know there are no curbs, and no vehicles, but still...and what's so "worldly" about it?

  • #2
    World Bazaar is not just another "Main Street USA". It incorporates some added facades from other eras. I don't have the answer to your questions but I have never seen this area of TDL in the same light as Main Street. When you enter TDL, it's like entering a victorian shopping arcade reminicent of the turn of the century. I don't prefer it over the classic Main Street, but I can appreciate it's uniqueness. The victorian-style ceilings do create an odd feel, but they are redeemed as soon as you see how strategically they frame the Castle in the background, creating an illusion of a castle canvas at the end of the Arcade. Also understand that there are things in World Bazaar that would not look right on other Main Street USAs... the Japanese restaurant for example, or the retro looking Central Street Coffeehouse with it's neon lights.

    Still...the feel and spirit of Main Street in World Bazaar is there. I can understand the Imagineers trying to come up with a different appeal anf look for TDL's "Main Street" since back then, they had no clue how the Japanese guests would accept the park's americana. Plus, given the location of TDL in an area where concerns about typhoons in the fall, heavy rains in late spring, and even ocasional snowfalls in the winter...the Imagineers felt they had to provide some protective element to the crowds who might be there on days when the local weather was not all that "outdoorsy". Remember, this was the first time they built a park outside of your average sunshiney weather such as Florida's and SoCA's.

    To me, World Bazaar was an experimental thing... It gave TDL a very exclusive feel, but I dare say that even after the end result, some imagineers may have had 2nd thought.... The lesson here? How to make it better and keep Main Street USA pure. Enter DLP's indoor arcades without sacrifycing the integrity of Main Street USA.

    As you may imagine...the purists will always have a displeasure of World Bazaar. I don't find it better or worst, but it certainly is NOT Main Street USA, but I do appreciate and enjoy it's uniqueness. Again...it's a matter of personal taste.

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    • #3
      Techincally speaking, the Plaza (central hub) is part of World Bazaar and there is a vehicle attraction (Omnibus) and there are curbs there along the parade route.

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      • #4
        That may or may not be the case, I don't know, but TDL's hub is so expansive, it could even be concidered a whole land altogether! Hehehe!!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TDLFAN
          I can understand the Imagineers trying to come up with a different appeal anf look for TDL's "Main Street" since back then, they had no clue how the Japanese guests would accept the park's americana.
          Hmmm, well I think that's an interesting assertion since post war Japan became *fascinated* with America..that's one of the reasons Disneyland and Disney characters were so popular with the Japanese in the first place and why they wanted one of their own.

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          • #6
            You know... That is correct since the japanese society of today is facinated with americana and brand names (not necesarily American BTW...) But whether the japanese wanted Disney in their land, I am not all that sure about....

            You see... Oriental Land Co. had made an investment in creating a new town in their newly developed reclamation project. I think they were very smart to knock on Disney's door and to create this project and have some type of magnet that would be beneficial to their residential plans for the area. I think the reason why we have TDL today was driven more by OLC's desire to see a profit in regards to their newly created real estate on the reclamation area. The japanese may have been interested in Disney as a product but I don't think the japanese society as a whole was clamoring OLC to build this project in conjunction with WDC. Does that make sense to you??
            I know OLC was interested in creating some kind of entertainment enterprise on the newly reclaimed land, and they went to the best entertainment company there was, and got lucky.

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            • #7
              Well my original impression was that, Tokyo Disneyland being the first outside-the-US theme park, they wanted to create a much more worldwide feel to the place. Then again I haven't been. You can put the Victorian conservatory roof down to Japanese weather.
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              • #8
                Center Street Coffeehouse:

                It does look a bit un-Main Street-ish. But then I'm guessing that was the point. It looks nice anyway, just hard to put my finger on. Well, it's art deco, but then look up too see "1892".

                I just wonder if this was what they initially aimed for. It just seems odd to imagine the theme-savvy Imagineers coming up with a concept that instead of being a solid representation of something is a mish-mash of things gathered all over the place, labeled with a name that makes it even more confusing. Unless I'm missing something. But for instance, did Victorian shopping centres really feature entire building facades like normal outdoors ones but with a glass roof on? Did the Victorians even have shopping centres? Well, they probably did, but it's still hard to imagine anyone in Dickens's books going by plastic plants and headed for a Starbucks, haha.
                Last edited by pussnboots; 05-10-2005, 12:02 AM.

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                • #9
                  WOW! I wonder when Chris took that photo. There is usually a line to get into the Coffeehouse and I see no one there. Plus, notice how nice the cms look and how well staffed the entrance is! Doesn't TDL look nice and clean???

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                  • #10
                    Oh yes, very very clean. I'd probably have trouble setting foot there without taking off my shoes, haha.

                    But I do think I prefer charm over immaculate Bree Van De Kamp-style decontamination. Which is why I'm just not the world's biggest fan of the place... I mean, they spend all that money on scrubbing and gum removal, but Fantasyland is still a medieval fair and Tomorrowland is so out of style it's now hip and retro. It seems they don't look at "style" as much as they look at preserving what was already there in 1989. I tend to look at things from an artistic point of view, not a Clorox ad one.

                    I realise my opinion isn't the consensus, but I'm just being honest here people.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pussnboots
                      Oh yes, very very clean. I'd probably have trouble setting foot there without taking off my shoes, haha.

                      But I do think I prefer charm over immaculate Bree Van De Kamp-style decontamination. Which is why I'm just not the world's biggest fan of the place... I mean, they spend all that money on scrubbing and gum removal, but Fantasyland is still a medieval fair and Tomorrowland is so out of style it's now hip and retro. It seems they don't look at "style" as much as they look at preserving what was already there in 1989. I tend to look at things from an artistic point of view, not a Clorox ad one.

                      I realise my opinion isn't the consensus, but I'm just being honest here people.
                      Unfortunately Fantasyland is still a Medieval fair in the MK at WDW too..blah..

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Adventurer
                        Unfortunately Fantasyland is still a Medieval fair in the MK at WDW too..blah..
                        ..and quite dirty and untidy and tree/flower-less, unlike TDL's..

                        But Puzz' opinion is valid as well. Different strokes for different blokes I guess. I like my parks clean because that how Walt wanted his parks and told Lillian his Disneyland would be clean...some ideal that is missing in today's management team at WDW and DLRP. I feel however that is it unfair to judge TDL just because of it's two less appealing lands. There are many other areas of TDL that are just as charming as can be. DL happens to have the advantage of age and concentrated space. Sadly we don't have that at TDL, but what we have is quite nice in my book because it is not allowed to get run down as Cynthia and Paul allowed DL to get, which didn't help the "charm" at all. But that is only my opinion.

                        >>I'd probably have trouble setting foot there without taking off my shoes<<

                        You know the old saying..."when in Japan, do as Japanese do!"

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pussnboots
                          Oh yes, very very clean. I'd probably have trouble setting foot there without taking off my shoes, haha.

                          But I do think I prefer charm over immaculate Bree Van De Kamp-style decontamination. Which is why I'm just not the world's biggest fan of the place... I mean, they spend all that money on scrubbing and gum removal, but Fantasyland is still a medieval fair and Tomorrowland is so out of style it's now hip and retro. It seems they don't look at "style" as much as they look at preserving what was already there in 1989. I tend to look at things from an artistic point of view, not a Clorox ad one.

                          I realise my opinion isn't the consensus, but I'm just being honest here people.
                          They have no need to fix what aint broken yet....
                          Sure they removed their Circle vision attraction and installed buzz lightyear...

                          and have a Carasel theater empty.... but their isn't much need to fix themes that was already classic when they installed it....

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Adventurer
                            Why did they feel they had to name it "World Bazaar". Just because they had it covered? I know there are no curbs, and no vehicles, but still...and what's so "worldly" about it?

                            I could be wrong here, but it looks to me like the Imagineers may have evolved "World Bazaar" in that i recall seeing early Herbert Ryman sketches that made the architecture (onion dome?) look more international and less american. I wonder if they got cold feet or cheap and did the Main Street under a roof thing. I went there and the acoustics are horrible. That roof destroys any charm it may have had. I read that the reason they did those arcades in Paris was to avoid doing another roof like that. The Imagineers must have learned something from doing the TDL thing. Well, for what its worth, that what i gathered.
                            "As usual he's taken over the coolest spot in the house"- Father re: Orville 1963

                            [FONT=Arial Narrow]

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                            • #15
                              Yes, but doesn't the Japanese Imagineering department have stylists? People who look at the possibilities of renewing things for the sake of artistic improvement? People who look at the place and consider a makeover here and there. Take TDL's logo alone. Completely out of style.

                              Of course, I realise I may be implementing a trivial, western way of thinking in a completely different culture, but from my western point of view, TDL lacks a little in the artistic department. In some (nonetheless quite pivotal) areas at least. And TDS is quite delicious looking, I might add. And I always drool over the TDL hub displays. It's better than Macy's at Christmas.

                              Also, about that logo, I just realised that perhaps it has that horrible font because the Japanese aren't as used to western letters as it would take to decypher a font such as the one that resembles Walt's handwriting.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by pussnboots
                                Take TDL's logo alone. Completely out of style.

                                NO NO NO leave TDL's logo/title style ALONE. Every park/resort should have a unique logo. I HATE the fact that the old Walt Disney World logo that the park opened with in 1971 (the one with the kind of squarish letters with rounded corners and the Mickey globe head) disappeared. I want them to BRING THAT BACK!!! Now they use the stupid Walt Disney signature (I just say stupid because I don't like it's implementation here). That's DLP's thing, and I was quite pleased with it when I saw DLP's title style when that park opened, but very UPSET when they made WDW's title style like that. I'm so happy that they have brought back the original Disneyland title style for the 50th.

                                P.S. And while they're at it BRING BACK EPCOT's original font style!!!!

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                                • #17
                                  *disclaimer: the following opinion is merely an opinion, and to make it worse, one by an obnoxious graphic designer who thinks he knows everything*

                                  Well, the Disneyland logo is timeless... As is the Coca-Cola logo, and the Walt Disney logo (rendering DLP's and WDW's current logo's timeless as well). But those '70s/'80s logos they slapped on WDW ands TDL? More in the same category as Wham! and Miami Vice. So naturally, they changed WDW's as soon as Dynasty got cancelled. But TDL still carries that old thing. The font just doesn't say anything about Disney, and doesn't carry any of the things Disney is associated with, as opposed to all the other logos. It's merely a dead giveaway of the decade the park came to be. I also don't think the "retro" argument holds water here.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by pussnboots
                                    Take TDL's logo alone. Completely out of style.
                                    I just realised that perhaps it has that horrible font because the Japanese aren't as used to western letters as it would take to decypher a font such as the one that resembles Walt's handwriting.
                                    Most japanese can read western font just fine so that would not be a problem at all. But About the TDL logo, around the time of the 15th anniversary, the logo was changed to look like the "Disney Signature logo" style that was similar to WDW's and DLP's. The reaction was adverse to say the least. many fans complaint to Guests Realtions and the old font was officially restated minus the enclicled D logo that went with no. Now we have a plain Castle instead with the old font. Personally, I agree with Adeventurer...every park shouls have an unique signature logo. Ouimett has returned the classic Disneyland logo back after Pressler and Cynthia screwed things around. Personally I would love to see the old classic WDW logo be revived as it was unique and projects the era when the park debuted. Retro is not a bad thing, and proof is in the amount of merchandise being sold at DL that is concidered "retro" now.

                                    Also...Pussnboots.. you dont' like the look of TDL and I respect that (have you been there by chance? You have not told us) , but keep in mind that when TDL was designed, it was to be the "best of" of the Disney parks at the time, incorporating the best features of both DL and WDW's MK. TDL may not be the best looking of the Disney Parks cosmetically but walking thru it, it reminds me of the good old days of our Disney parks in the USA... My only gripe about TDL is how much similar it is to WDW's MK. But with a New Orleans area, DL's Toontown, and unique areas all it's own like Critter Country and World Bazaar..TDL is a cut above in my book. It's too bad you seem to dismiss it just because it has a classic look, but that is your opinion and I respect it.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      No, I haven't been, and I'm sure that once I go I'll love every inch of it, but until then my impression remains that I don't like the parks sense of style. I keep seeing parts of it as "befores" on a TV makeover programme. Also, "unique" isn't synonymous with "good" and retro is only retro when it was designed to be retro, not when slothful designers fail to stay up to date. I realise I have an odd obsession with this, and I don't mean to ruin anyone's fun. And I do really appreciate the enormous effort they put in other aspects of that park. To each his own, I guess.

                                      And I never knew they had a different logo for a while. It strikes me as odd that half the world held that against them. Well, fans are nostalgic...

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by pussnboots
                                        *disclaimer: the following opinion is merely an opinion, and to make it worse, one by an obnoxious graphic designer who thinks he knows everything*

                                        Well, the Disneyland logo is timeless... As is the Coca-Cola logo, and the Walt Disney logo (rendering DLP's and WDW's current logo's timeless as well). But those '70s/'80s logos they slapped on WDW ands TDL? More in the same category as Wham! and Miami Vice. So naturally, they changed WDW's as soon as Dynasty got cancelled. But TDL still carries that old thing. The font just doesn't say anything about Disney, and doesn't carry any of the things Disney is associated with, as opposed to all the other logos. It's merely a dead giveaway of the decade the park came to be. I also don't think the "retro" argument holds water here.
                                        Well, I do disagree with you. As I said, every park/resort should have it's own unique identifying logo..the one it opened with. The logo/font used is part of that park/resorts identity. It would be AWFUL if all the parks save for Disneyland in California used the Walt Disney signature script. How boring and unoriginal. Every Disneyland is supposed to be slightly different and have unique qualities the others don't, and the font/style of their logo's is part of that differantiation. Plus, the logo is not supposed to "say Disney" necessarily. You know why the TDL logo looks the way it does, with the pointy Font letters? It was meant to evoke Japan, and signify that the park is in Japan. It totally fits and makes sense. The pointy corners remind one of the pointed ends of Torii gates. Don't you see that? I saw that the first time I laid eyes on it.

                                        Look at how the words "Hong Kong" are written in HK Disneyland. It has an Asian/Chinese character stylization to the Roman alphabet letters.

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