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  • [Question] New Monorails??

    So I was looking at some pics of the new Blue Monorail at Disneyland and I was wondering if WDW is going to see some new Monorails anytime soon?

    It seems stupid that Disneyland get these new ones first, considering the monorail does a little loop around the Nemo subs ride and what not and back to the ticket booths...

    It seems to me that the monorails in WDW would need the upgrade because they are used more often, and the wear and tear has to be considerably higher than in DL.

    So has anyone heard if WDW is due to get these new Monorails anytime soon?

  • #2
    Re: New Monorails??

    Well. Disneyland only needs 3 monorails. WDW needs several more than that since they run 3 monorail lines (Express to MK, resort line & the line to EPCOT). In the long run, it's cheaper for DL to get 3 monorails than for WDW to get the 10-15(?) or so they need.

    How many monorails are in WDW's fleet anyway? Anyone know?

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    • #3
      Re: New Monorails??

      12
      Marquis d'Bod of the RCMC... always and forever

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      • #4
        Re: New Monorails??

        Ohhh... I was close in my guess!

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        • #5
          Re: New Monorails??

          I understand that its easier for DL to get 3 new Monorails than it is for WDW to get the 12 they need, but you could also argue that WDW uses the monorails more, because the property is so big, that they need to upgrade the system..

          Why waste the money on 3 new ones, and put them in a park that doesnt even draw half the attendance that WDW does in a year???

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          • #6
            Re: New Monorails??

            WDW's monorails just had a sizeable refurb a couple years ago, when they replaced all the carpet with tile and took out the middle "seat". I don't see them being replaced anytime soon. And DL's fleet was falling apart. They were hard pressed to keep even one monorail running. It was long past time that they'd get a new fleet.

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            • #7
              Re: New Monorails??

              The Disneyland monorails are 2 years older than the WDW monorails. Updates to the 2 systems seem to have been alternated. The last upgrades were from the Mark IV to the Mark VI at WDW. Now Disneyland has done it's upgrade from the Mark V to the Mark VII. WDW will have it's turn, not sure when though as upgrading WDW's system would be at the very least 4 times as expensive as DLR.

              Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

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              • #8
                Re: New Monorails??

                The upgrade to the interior of the MVIs was completed a few months ago. The interior configuration was changed and carpet was removed. An upgrade to the cockpit control panels was performed a few years ago as well.
                The WDW monorails are used mainly as transportation and just as your mundane city bus isn't replaced for 25 years, the monorails won't be replaced until well in to their lifetime. Unlike the DL monorail system which is mainly an attraction.
                The oldest operating MVI in WDW is just about 20 years old now. That is relatively young for a train, especially considering the amount of maintenance that goes in to each train.

                I'd say that we won't begin hearing any news about new trains until at least 2014.
                sigpic


                Originally posted by Phonedave
                Well, if your parents can't teach you, maybe you can learn from a taser.

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                • #9
                  Re: New Monorails??

                  Also keep in mind the rail at DL is much narrower than the tracks at WDW and so they have to re-design a new train for WDW to replace the existing ones, they can't just ship a DL monorail over to WDW and drop it in place.

                  The design and patents on the WDW monorails where also sold to Bombardier transport a while back (hence the Monorail in Las Vegas that looks a lot like the Disney monorails) that probably adds some licensing fees to the cost that could push out the upgrades a few years or so. Or maybe they will just put "stock" Bombardier transport monorails in place (probably cheaper as long as the rail specs are the same). The one in Vegas is completely automated and dosn't have a driver... but not sure elimination of 50 or so jobs would justify the cost. Plus Bombardier has a lot of trouble getting the LV one up and running properly, big gears falling off an smashing parked cars etc. put it way behind schedule and caused all sorts of frustration with the city a few years back...

                  Given the problems with the track radius and the new ones at DL, and the ones in LV, we may see them start in 2012-2014, but the lack of industry standards and such I think would probably push us actually riding on one for a couple years after that..

                  If I had to make a prediction I would say we might see a refit of the electric motors in a few years if the price of energy and new technology make it an attractive option for Disney to do so to dramatically reduce operating costs. Other than that if maintained properly baring any major disasters they could conceivably run them for another 20 years as is.
                  Hi I'm Jerren and I'm a Disneyholic...

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                  • #10
                    Re: New Monorails??

                    I would love to see an entirely new monorail system be installed at WDW. The ones they have now have run their course already. Just yesterday on my way to the MK, we were stuck "waiting for traffic clearance" for about 15 mins.. then we found out the real reason for the delay was that a monorail was experiencing "technical difficulties" and had to be taken out of the active track. To add insult to injury, more auto announcements came on about safety checks to be performed on OUR train. What followed was several tests in which we guests had to endured several accelerations and rough stops. It was quite trying to my patience.

                    Why do they have to do these things when guests are trying to shuffle from the TTC to the MK in what is supposed to be an "express" monorail? Needless to say, I do not think the monorails at WDW are all that safe. If they were, they would not have to conduct such tests so feverishly. Real transport systems do not do this with the frequency it happens at WDW. The fact that they have moved millions of guests (sometimes slowly) from point A to B safely.. must be a strike of luck that obviously needs to be constantly monitored.

                    What WDW needs are new high density monorails with new station designs where huge crowds can be moved into and out of the monorail with minimal CM intervention, floors that are leveled with the monorail to ease the boarding of wheelchairs and scooters without the need for ramp assistance, and furthermore.. monorails at WDW must be fully automated to somewhat eliminate the human factor to the lowest degree possible, so that monorails can work properly, run on time with minimal delays and offer the type of reliable service that is expected of a transport system. As it is right now, the WDW monorail operation is disjointed and totally amateurish.

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                    • #11
                      Re: New Monorails??

                      Originally posted by Parisi View Post
                      So I was looking at some pics of the new Blue Monorail at Disneyland and I was wondering if WDW is going to see some new Monorails anytime soon?

                      ---

                      So has anyone heard if WDW is due to get these new Monorails anytime soon?
                      The way this works is basically every 20 years, the monorails get replaced. Disneyland's have been due a few years before hand. So I expect WDW to get new ones around 2011/2012.

                      Originally posted by Parisi View Post
                      It seems stupid that Disneyland get these new ones first, considering the monorail does a little loop around the Nemo subs ride and what not and back to the ticket booths...

                      It seems to me that the monorails in WDW would need the upgrade because they are used more often, and the wear and tear has to be considerably higher than in DL.
                      The Monorail at Disneyland does considerably more than a "little loop around the Nemo subs ride". It does that, but then goes across Harbor Blvd, into DCA, through the Grand Californian, Downtown Disney, & then back a separate route.

                      Even though the route is shorter, the Monorails still run just as much as both resorts. So they both get the same wear & tear.

                      Originally posted by Parisi View Post
                      Why waste the money on 3 new ones, and put them in a park that doesnt even draw half the attendance that WDW does in a year???
                      Why such negativity against Disneyland? Disneyland Park is the second most visited theme park in the country next to the Magic Kingdom. With-out Disneyland, there would be no Disney World. And it's not waisting money, Disneyland does get good use out of it's Monorails, & personally, they look better than WDW's. So remember that plz!

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                      • #12
                        Re: New Monorails??

                        With the problems they've had with them, I'd rather not have DL's new monorails. They still don't have Red functioning properly and it's been on property for at least 5- 6 months now.

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                        • #13
                          Re: New Monorails??

                          Originally posted by Parisi View Post
                          Why waste the money on 3 new ones, and put them in a park that doesnt even draw half the attendance that WDW does in a year???
                          With that logic, why should they spend any money at all keeping Disneyland open?

                          New monorails would be nice in WDW, but as others have said the situation is not nearly as desperate for yours as it was for ours.

                          Originally posted by kirbilicious View Post
                          With the problems they've had with them, I'd rather not have DL's new monorails.
                          When WDW's gets upgraded, they'll have the benefit of working with an existing monorail manufacturer (Bombardier). Burke Composite Design, to my knowledge, has never designed nor built monorails prior to the Mark VII. Add that to some stupid decisions made on the part of both Disney and Burke, and you're asking for trouble.

                          Now I'll grant you Bombardier isn't without its own problems (take a look at the opening of the expanded Vegas line), but every problem they have is one WDW (hopefully) won't have down the line.

                          Originally posted by kirbilicious View Post
                          They still don't have Red functioning properly and it's been on property for at least 5- 6 months now.
                          Red is functioning properly (now anyway, I won't deny that it had problems), the issue is the window openings (or lack thereof). You can blame the lawyers, the lack of space for AC, the lack of additional power to the beam, whoever you want really. But for all intents and purposes, Red is functioning properly (and takes guests regularly, weather permitting).

                          Originally posted by Jerren View Post
                          The design and patents on the WDW monorails where also sold to Bombardier transport a while back (hence the Monorail in Las Vegas that looks a lot like the Disney monorails) that probably adds some licensing fees to the cost that could push out the upgrades a few years or so.
                          I don't know the validity of the patents being sold...but the LV monorails don't look like the Mark Vs/Mark VI's. Compare:





                          The original LV monorails only looked like WDW monorails because they WERE from WDW. Mark IVs sold directly to Ballys/MGM line.

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                          • #14
                            Re: New Monorails??

                            Originally posted by kirbilicious View Post
                            With the problems they've had with them, I'd rather not have DL's new monorails. They still don't have Red functioning properly and it's been on property for at least 5- 6 months now.
                            That will never happen. The chassis are so different from each other.

                            The exterior design, while great looking for DL, wouldn't exactly fit in a 19th Century Victorian beach resort.



                            As for the LV monorail, they run M-VIs while WDW runs Mark VIs. Two Mark IVs were sent to LV to jump start the system. Later, other trains similar looking to the Mark VIs (not the one pictured) were added.
                            sigpic


                            Originally posted by Phonedave
                            Well, if your parents can't teach you, maybe you can learn from a taser.

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                            • #15
                              Re: New Monorails??

                              Originally posted by DeliriumTrigger View Post


                              I don't know the validity of the patents being sold...but the LV monorails don't look like the Mark Vs/Mark VI's. Compare:





                              The original LV monorails only looked like WDW monorails because they WERE from WDW. Mark IVs sold directly to Ballys/MGM line.
                              Yes and those where probably the originals I saw then, but the Patents where sold to Bombardier back in 1984 along with the patents for the Peoplemover technology and other transport technology Invented by Disney's WEDway Transportation company. (which may explain the name change at WDW and why it has not returned to DL) Which means for the most part Bombardier has the patents for above rail monorail technology used at WDW and the other parks, even if the exterior looks a bit different. Think of it like two hybrid SUV's one from Ford one from Toyota, they look different etc but the hybrid technology is identicle and owned by Toyota and Ford has to pay for the parts to put in it's Mariners. Just like Disney would have to pay for the parts for a new monorail based on those patents it sold to Bombardier no matter who builds the trains.

                              There' an interesting article about the sale and how Disney WedWay Transportation was used in the Houston Airport System

                              Disney got out of the business back in 1984 and sold the patents of its monorail and other people moving systems to Bombardier, who went on to build or install virtually the same underground system in Washington D.C., connecting the U.S. Capitol building with the Dirksen and Hart Senate buildings.



                              Bombardier also built a monorail system in Las Vegas and the above ground train system at IAH.
                              Last edited by Jerren; 09-06-2008, 05:58 AM.
                              Hi I'm Jerren and I'm a Disneyholic...

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