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  • [Chat] Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

    Just wondering, would you have rather had Western River (w/ BTM) or the current situation (w/ a DL caliber POTC), and why?

  • #2
    Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

    Oh.. I like the current situation (and yes I like POTC the way it is).

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    • #3
      Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

      I'm with Frank. If you go back and research Marc Davis's original ideas and sketches it would just be too large a "land" despite it being a great idea. Tony Baxter was given the job of breaking it down into "bite size" pieces hence the Bryce Canyon look at DL and the Monument Valley approach at WDW. The nearest they have come to the original plan is at Paris where the Thunder Mesa is the focal point of the Frontierland area and the Phantom Manor and the town of Thunder Mesa are worked into the Ravenswood story. The Jason Surrell book gives far more detail about the development. Note the town at DL is Rainbow Ridge - an homage to the original Mine Train through Nature's Wonderland. Whereas at WDW it's the flooded town of Tumbleweed.
      Last edited by geoffa; 01-20-2009, 01:38 PM.
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      • #4
        Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

        Western River Expedition. It would have been totally unique. Basically it was supposed to be WDW's POTC on the scale of DL's, but with the wild west/cowboy theme. The concept art I've seen online made it look like it would have been awesome. It mainly got shelved because everyone started asking "Where's the pirate ride?" when WDW opened. So they shelved Western River and scrambled to get a version of Pirates shoehorned in.

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        • #5
          Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

          I agree with aimster. If you could only have one at the MK, I would have preferred Western River Expedition for something unique. As long as I've known about this "lost attraction" I've always hoped someone would dust off the plans and build it somewhere, it doesn't have to be MK, how about Paris or Tokyo? Certainly HK could use it.
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          • #6
            Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

            Can't believe anyone would prefer MK's pathetic Pirates to Western River Expedition...which would IMO been superior to any Pirates built so far.
            Down with the Hat

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            • #7
              Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

              Why not have both? Especially since they are featured in different lands, so comparing WRE to POTC seems like comparing oranges and tomatoes.

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              • #8
                Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

                Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
                Why not have both? Especially since they are featured in different lands, so comparing WRE to POTC seems like comparing oranges and tomatoes.
                Well I'll be... I'm going to agree with this one. What were they worried about? Space? haha! They should've done both. And while they were at it, made a more decent Pirates.

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                • #9
                  Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

                  BOTH! and if just one, then Western River Expedition.
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                  • #10
                    Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

                    Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
                    Why not have both? Especially since they are featured in different lands, so comparing WRE to POTC seems like comparing oranges and tomatoes.
                    Well, the DL Pirates and WRE were quite similar in some respects...

                    For instance, in the DL version of POTC, we begin by going back in time by sliding down a waterfall, whereas in WRE, we would have gone back in time by sliding up a waterfall (the latter idea being incorporated later into the DLP POTC). After that, in POTC, we float through the town full of drunken pirates...similarly in WRE, we float through a town full of drunken cowboys. Of course there were big differences too, but I do feel that having both rides in the same park would diminish the uniqueness of each just a little. However, having both in same resort would be just peachy by me...if I could roll back time I would keep WRE in the MK and have POTC feature in another park. If I couldn't have that then of course I would want both in the MK. Course that's just daydreaming now since the plot of land is gone.
                    Down with the Hat

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                    • #11
                      Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

                      Originally posted by geoffa View Post
                      Tony Baxter was given the job of breaking it down into "bite size" pieces
                      My understanding is that he was assigned the coaster portion of the sub-land (Western River Expedition was just the major part of Thunder Mesa), and that he eventually got that spun off as Big Thunder Mountain Railroad.


                      I'd rather have Western River Expedition. It would have completed the visual narrative of manifest destiny that is portrayed between Liberty Square and Frontierland.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

                        Originally posted by lazyboy97O View Post
                        My understanding is that he was assigned the coaster portion of the sub-land (Western River Expedition was just the major part of Thunder Mesa), and that he eventually got that spun off as Big Thunder Mountain Railroad.
                        Yup, the original design had both the WRE and coaster in the same giant building. Baxter, assigned to the coaster after the initial designs had been made, felt that the coaster could be plussed up from what was originally proposed, but still within the context of the single building. However, Disney boss Card Walker realized he could just build the plussed up coaster and discard WRE, especially when public clamor had resulted in MK's el-cheapo POTC having been quickly constructed (POTC being somewhat similar to WRE). Still, Baxter designed the new Big Thunder Mountain in a way that WRE could still be built next to it. However, that plot subsequently got used to build Splash Mountain.

                        The first picture below shows the original WRE / coaster combo (this mega show building would also have included a Native American village on the roof). The second picture shows Baxter's modified plan, with Big Thunder on the right, and the showbuilding for a separate WRE on the left.


                        Down with the Hat

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                        • #13
                          Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

                          Pirates, hands down. The ride seems like a fresh new experience via the upgrades. At the same time, many wonderful memories with my family are associated with it - including when I was a youngster. The story is grand, plua the humor stays with you. Also, love the music. Yo ho!
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                          • #14
                            Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

                            One more vote for Western River Expedition. Variety is always better.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Western River Expedition or Pirates of the Caribbean

                              Originally posted by 3IAlienKid View Post
                              Certainly HK could use it.
                              Yeah, HK is in need of a Frontierland, why not make it Thunder Mesa Island.
                              A riverboat could go around it like TSI, and ther can be WRE and BTM as they were planned. I'm sure theres enough space behind the RR.




                              (still vote for POtC though)

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