Trip Report Already?

[TDLFAN]

Ok folks, so I took a quick side trip to the MK this saturday afternoon. Shock. Most Xmas decor is up and functioning. No Xmas tree yet. They are even playing the xmas music loop all over Main Street. As for the decor itself.. it's nice, minimal, but that's the standard here.

Dream Along with Mickey still playing.. and needs to go.
The new "Princess Tiana Riverboat Jubilee" show. Very cute for what it is. I find the show to be lively, albeit a bit removed from guests and the location where most of the performance is staged (by Splash Mt's front area) is not the best of places and very crowded. There was no crowd control but still we managed to enjoy the show. They even pull props and a few firework effects, which is much more than I expected.
In fact... the 3pm parade had just ended when this show came on. I like that... very Tokyo-like, that there is one entertainment/show happening right after another. Means value for the guests.. no time to get bored with the MK's substandard theming. Same for the Celebrate it Show at the hub, which is still lots of fun and today's crowd was have a blast watching, as it should always be.

Along the holiday decor, the xmas merchandise is up as well. Nothing to look at here.. same old stuff sold from previous years.. with few exceptions, and those few exceptions were nice. I love the new burgundy Mickey and Minnie 2009 ornament/decor collection. Very classy.

Space Mt... well, I did like the new landscapping done by the front area of the Mountain. Now that most of the old Skyway building was torn down, they had the good foresight of adding new tall trees there to block out that unsightly dvc Condominium by the A-framed Contemporary. Also, we took a ride on the newly reopened People Mover. Nothing new there as the ride remains as bland as always, with outdated and cheap visual along the way. Riding thru Space Mountain, they were testing the ride vehicles which appeared to be the same old rough toboggan ones. There is a new recorded spiel during the people mover, but frankly, the volume was so low and bad during most portions of it, I could hardly understand any of it. I think I heard Stitch towards the beginning of it.. but that was it. The new lighting was on but this being daytime, did not make a difference in the ride's quality for me.

As always.. the MK has the potential to be a lovely lovely park... and it's disheartening to see it's gardens (especially around the hub and castle pond) in such bad state of upkeep. Likewise, the sidewalks are is such bad need of cleaning and repair... it just takes away the sparkle that this park should project. It would also help if many of the CMs around the park took a bit more pride in how to wear their costumes and not look as frumpy and dumpy as I saw some of them today. As a former CM at the MK, this breaks my heart. Is there no respect for Traditions anymore?

Finally.. the monorails. As always... waited for traffic clearance going into the MK, and again, waited for traffic clearance on the way back.. where we stood by the Poly for about 5-8 mins.. just sitting there, to then be told our mono was being taken out of service. The monorail operation has got to be WDW's most incompetent department. But to their credit, they are reliable when it comes to bad service. That is not a compliment. Thye may get you alive from point A to B, but with many delays and excuses along the way. It's the Amateur Hour in the Sky ladies and germs.

All in all.. it was an enjoyable cool afternoon at the MK.

[Mtsplash]

Re: Already?

Wow! You are a downer....

[TDLFAN]

Re: Already?

You mean, the MK is a downer. I am just retelling what I saw. Unlike you, I am ot blinded by pixie dust and will tell it like it is. Maybe one of these days, you will come down and write your own happy go lucky trip report, just like any other casual tourist would. But I still enjoyed myself at the MK, for what it's worth.. It's not like going to the horrible state of MN and freeze to death in the tundra, or take refuge in the redneck mall of america... now THAT's a downer.

[dland_lover]

Re: Already?

What's wrong with a having a good time, and choosing to overlook what few problems there may be during a trip to the World? I just can't believe that things are as bad as you claim them to be. Why would you keep going, if things really are as bad as you make them out to be?
[/ot]



Glad to hear you had fun on your trip.

[Imagineer Scott]

Re: Already?

Funny. I recently visited the MK and everything looked GREAT!

The CMs were all happy and nice. The sidewalks weren't dirty. The area by the hub was great and beautiful as always. Dream Along with Mickey doesn't seem outdated and it packs in the crowds still... which means more people not riding rides

Maybe you just look for things to knitpick? :P Plus your infatuation with Tokyo... do you live in Tokyo?

[Barbaraann]

Re: Already?

We all have opinions and they are surely not all the same. I read MiceChat and I read it a lot. I don't get to either Disney World or Disneyland much, so I like to come here to MiceChat to read and see what other people are experiencing. My most recent vacation was in August and it was to Disney World. I had a great time. During my vacation, I found myself saying to myself many times, "you know that guy/or gal on MiceChat was sure right about that", or "boy or boy was so and so wrong about such and such". Yes, I talked to myself a lot, and I'll continue to read people's opinions here, and definitely make up my own mind next time I can afford to visit.

[aimster]

Re: Already?

Funny. I recently visited the MK and everything looked GREAT!

The CMs were all happy and nice. The sidewalks weren't dirty. The area by the hub was great and beautiful as always. Dream Along with Mickey doesn't seem outdated and it packs in the crowds still... which means more people not riding rides

Maybe you just look for things to knitpick? :P Plus your infatuation with Tokyo... do you live in Tokyo?

If you look over by TDLFAN's avatar, you'll see that he lives in Orlando. But he does get to visit Tokyo Disneyland often due to his job. And that's all I'm going to say. So he knows how well the parks are run over there. In comparison, WDW has a LOT of catching up to do.

[Stitchy]

Re: Already?

there's something I've been wondering for a while...and I've kept it in, for fear that it would be taken in a mean spirited way. So, first, I want to say..that it is not at all meant that way. I think most people here know I'm not that kind of person.

Now, the question...

TDLfan...if you are so disenchanted with WDW...why do you continue to go?

[Mtsplash]

Re: Already?

You mean, the MK is a downer. I am just retelling what I saw. Unlike you, I am ot blinded by pixie dust and will tell it like it is. Maybe one of these days, you will come down and write your own happy go lucky trip report, just like any other casual tourist would. But I still enjoyed myself at the MK, for what it's worth.. It's not like going to the horrible state of MN and freeze to death in the tundra, or take refuge in the redneck mall of america... now THAT's a downer.

Huh...what a fascinating response... First of all, I certainly do notice bad things at Disney. I'm not "blinded by pixie dust", but I know not to be a pessimist. When I said you were a downer, I was reacting the tone I perceived in your post. It sounded as if you completely expected to not enjoy the MK. This raises the question a couple other people have asked: why do you even go? Your complaints sounded unnecessarily negative and condescending.

Secondly, I would like to address that you offended my home state. Yes, it's cold here, and people do freeze to death, but I like it here. The cold is refreshing. BTW, the Mall of America is about as far from redneck as it gets. It's a suburban girl's shopping dream, with hundreds of clothing and bath soap stores..... not sure how that counts as redneck..??? (A term I've usually heard applied to the south.

P.S. Even if I was "blinded by pixie dust"..so what? ...ignorance is bliss!

P.P.S. I did actually write one of those horrible happy go lucky trip reports you mentioned. Check it out!

P.P.P.S. If all those lowly casual tourists didn't exist, WDW probably wouldn't either.

[KevinYee]

Re: Already?

As someone who has tried to walk the tightrope of "love Disney" and "be critical of them to hold them to a higher standard" for more than a decade, I can well appreciate the bind of pointing out problems (especially operational ones) without making it sound like you're bitter. I don't think TDLFan is bitter - I know I am not - but that does not mean that complaints are disallowed.

Here's a new one to tack onto his, in fact: apparently, there will be no "Lights of Winter" (white arches with synchronized lights) at World Showcase entrance this year. There hasn't been an announcement, but they aren't up, and they aren't in the usual 'pending' spot in the Epcot parking lot, and they are NOT mentioned in the passholder newsletter when everything else is mentioned. So I don't think it's coming. I haven't heard why, but it's natural to suspect budget cuts. Declining by Degrees indeed.

[Barbaraann]

Re: Already?

The holiday seasons seemed to be rushed all over not just at Disney World. I know that here in Chicago, you could walk in any store that was selling Halloween merchandise, and almost directly one aisle over you'd see the beginning of Christmas merchandise.

I know that it takes time to accomplish these fantastic displays that are popping up, but I really did like it better when they waited til after Thanksgiving.

I visited Disney World in 2007, the first week in December and the aforementioned arches at Epcot were indeed amazing. I am glad that I got to see them and photograph them.

I for one do appreciate people's opinions on what they see when they visit both Disneyland and Disney World. These places are ever changing and over the years the displays are not necessarily going to be carbon copies of what went before.

Why did I just thing about the scene of the Grinch story where Christmas came even though all the decorations were stolen by the Grinch?

[SpectroMan]

Re: Already?

While I didn't see all the faults that TDLFAN sees when I visited in October, I don't mind hearing about them. He is a much more frequent visitor to his home park and therefore knows what it was capable of in years past. I'd have to agree that the Peoplemover rehab was rather bland, but at the same time realize it was Space Mountain getting the rehab, and thankfully WDI took the time to refresh a ride that's connected to it at the same time - better than nothing, and sadly what we've had to become accustomed to in recent years.

As well, I've seen fully completed Christmas decor sections in various retail stores throughout SoCal already and even I - who loves to collect ornaments and the little Dept56 style buildings and what not - was really irritated with it being out so early. In fact, most of it was already at 50% off, thereby cancelling out the former fun of shopping on 12/26.

[Jspider]

Re: Already?

there's something I've been wondering for a while...and I've kept it in, for fear that it would be taken in a mean spirited way. So, first, I want to say..that it is not at all meant that way. I think most people here know I'm not that kind of person.

Now, the question...

TDLfan...if you are so disenchanted with WDW...why do you continue to go?

not to answer too much for him but it seems to me that he has a great nostalgia for the place and how it used to be run.

It's one of those odd things that happens in almost all fandoms. As companies go on and do different things they tend to neglect or move away from certain groups.

I think everyone varies by degrees but I can certainly see how WDW has moved towards lower quality and higher prices. And yet it still delevers on the quantity (almost the Walmart of Disney theme parks)

I can't deny that in the American system there are tons of people that are happy to visit at those rates and apparantly for the given quality and it still is a fun place so there is no buisiness in raining on their parades.

There's little market pressure for WDW to change and well TDLfan is a representation of thepart of the fandom thats only way to strike at the company is to write critical articles at a frequent basis.


Try hanging around a Nintendo board now that the Wii's a big hit and all the weird software trends that has set for very low quality software

Alot of Nintendo fans moved onto 360 but still have enough nostalgia for the Nintendo of the N64 era to show up and complain.

Same deal here, WDW has alot of unique things for alot of people and they want it to be brought up to a quality it probably won't be for a long time. Of course most people in the internets probably sound alot more critical of things then they are in real life.

[aimster]

Re: Already?

TDLFAN complains because he cares. He'd like to see the MK return to its former glory. And I feel the same way. Take off the rose-colored glasses and maybe you'll notice how bad it can be too.

[dmtnt55]

Re: Already?

It's never too early for Christmas spirit!

[SummerInFL]

Re: Already?

Everyone has to remember that the people that complain the most are the ones that probably care the most. Does that mean that I always agree with what TDL has to say? No, in fact I disagree with a lot of it but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to have their own opinion.

Just remember if you are a person who looks at things in a more positive light that you'll have a better time than the person who views "the world" through critical eyes. Besides, if we didn't have people like TDL in this world then things would never improve.

I love WDW and I always touch on the positives when I go but I also see the negatives, I don't focus on them but that doesn't mean I don't notice they are there. Some people can do that and others can't but we should be respectful of everyone's opinion.

Unless of course you feel that Walt Disney's frozen body is buried under the castle, then you might be ridiculed.

[Stitchy]

Re: Already?

not to answer too much for him but it seems to me that he has a great nostalgia for the place and how it used to be run.

It's one of those odd things that happens in almost all fandoms. As companies go on and do different things they tend to neglect or move away from certain groups.

I think everyone varies by degrees but I can certainly see how WDW has moved towards lower quality and higher prices. And yet it still delevers on the quantity (almost the Walmart of Disney theme parks)

I can't deny that in the American system there are tons of people that are happy to visit at those rates and apparantly for the given quality and it still is a fun place so there is no buisiness in raining on their parades.

There's little market pressure for WDW to change and well TDLfan is a representation of thepart of the fandom thats only way to strike at the company is to write critical articles at a frequent basis.


Try hanging around a Nintendo board now that the Wii's a big hit and all the weird software trends that has set for very low quality software

Alot of Nintendo fans moved onto 360 but still have enough nostalgia for the Nintendo of the N64 era to show up and complain.

Same deal here, WDW has alot of unique things for alot of people and they want it to be brought up to a quality it probably won't be for a long time. Of course most people in the internets probably sound alot more critical of things then they are in real life.

I can understand where he's coming from. I never questioned that. If he wasn't a huge Disney fan...I doubt he'd be a member of MC.

My question was....if he is so disenchanted...why does he keep going? That wasn't answered. From my point of view.....if something continually falls below par in my eyes, and continually disappoints me...then, it's not worth my time and energy. So, I wonder....if TDLFan is met with those things when he visits the World...then why does he waste his time going? He visits Toyko Disney fairly often, and always seems very happy with his experiences there. It just begs this simple question..

If WDW only disappoints you, why waste your time and energy going there? If Tokyo Disney is, in your eyes so much better...than isn't it better, for you and your happiness, to stop going to WDW and only go to Tokyo? That way; you get all positive and no negative.

[TDLFAN]

Re: Already?

What's wrong with a having a good time, and choosing to overlook what few problems there may be during a trip to the World?

Don't be a Disney Apologist. When you go to the MK, you are going to one of the (if not the most) expensive DL park in the World to visit, based on a 1-4 day passport when compared to the others. At those prices, why are you willing to settle for the least amount of positive show and theming? If there is one thing why I kepp reminding management on these issues is because they are there. Yes, there are times when the MK looks great.. namely the morning after when they preassure wash and on days when the park is not crowded.. but on other days.. dirt spots everywhere from several days, and cracked sidewalks are UNacceptable, especially when they shove this particualr park as the jewel of Disney. What a joke... and worst, the joke's on YOU, the defenders of this "slip".

[Dustysage]

Re: Already?

Don't be a Disney Apologist. When you go to the MK, you are going to one of the (if not the most) expensive DL park in the World to visit, based on a 1-4 day passport when compared to the others. At those prices, why are you willing to settle for the least amount of positive show and theming?

I ABSOLUTELY agree. If it weren't for people like Al Lutz and a handful of Disney executives SCREAMING about all the crap that Paul Pressler and others were doing to Disneyland in the late 90's, Disneyland would probably be a soul-less mess of a mall today.

Disney World was once a MUCH more special and magical place than it is today. That isn't to say that WDW isn't still worthy of a visit. But it has clearly been a case of declining by degrees. Sadly, few are willing to fight for WDW in quite the same way they did for Disneyland (Either fans or executives).

However, as an Admin Note, I would advise all to make their points but not make personal attacks against each other. You can save Disney World without destroying MiceChat with hostility in the process

-Dusty

[ti2gr]

Re: Already?

When comapared to his posts about Tokyo Disneyland, TDLFAN's posts about The Magic Kingdom often seem extremely critical. That is probably because they are true. I've never been to the Tokyo park so I can't say for sure, BUT based on the photos I've seen of the Tokyo park I don't doubt his observations at all. When I do visit the Magic Kingdom, I do se many of what he points out and it disturbs me to think that Disney has let the Magic Kingdom and the other parks fall to the state that they are in. The Magic Kingdom should be, as Disney proclaims, the jewel of all of their parks, but that jewel is tarnished so badly right now it's pathetic. The casual visitor does not see it as much as the regulars do.

Part of the problem is Disney's fault as there are apathetic cast members, cost cutting by managers and it's hard to motivate people to be their best when you are paying sub standard wages. Most of the front line cast make minimum wage and unless they sign up for extra shifts don't even get scheduled 40 hours a week if they are "full-time". In many departments these same cast members are expected to do the same jobs that in the past (70's and 80's) would have 2-4 cast members doing. The other part of the problem are the "guests" themselves. People today just don't care. The trash you might see on the ground there did not magcally appear there, guests left it there. There are trash cans every 20 feet or so, yet people don't bother using them and just drop their trash for someone else to clean up. I've seen it happen first hand. While waiting for a parade, I've seen "guests" eating food in their ECV sitting right next to the trash can and when they were finished, put their trash on the curb rather than reaching over and pushing the flap and dropping their trash into the container. They didn't even have to get out of the ECV to do this, all they had to do is reach over about as far as they reached to place the trash on the curb.

Don't get me wrong I still love Walt Disney World, and I am old enough and have visited often enough over the years to know what the parks used to be like. The state that they are in today is disappointing compared to what they were like in the 70's and 80's. With the amount of people that visit the Magic Kingdom each year (it is the number one visited park in the world) more should be done with park yet no new "E-Ticket" attraction has been added in two decades. All the parks at WDW should get more attention than what they get from the executives. People like TDLFAN complain, not because they are expecting to have a bad time or look for the faults, it's because they care and know how things used to be and how they SHOULD be, and therefore the faults come right out and are so blatant that they slap you in the face. The casual traveler that comes once every year or two, or first time visitor doesn't see it as much, if at all.