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OK, so what's wrong with MK?

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  • #31
    Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

    You may prefer other parks over the MK, that's a matter of opinion. But I fail to understand what you consider to be "ridiculous" prices. If they were, I know I couldn't afford a week or ten day Orlando trip. Most people go for a week or more, and with the multi day packages, you can end up paying $25-30 a day for your park tickets -- not to mention the various discounts and promotions. How is that "ridiculous"?

    I remember my first trip, two years ago. We paid $1300 for ten days of hotel + park hoppers for two. That's hardly ridiculous; more like a bargain.
    Last edited by disneyfann121; 11-14-2009, 06:51 PM.

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    • #32
      Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

      I've been visiting the MK since 1973 and yes, there has been much CHANGE. Like many others, I miss some of the classic attractions that have disappeared, but also appreciate some of the newer classics like Mickey's Philharmagic, that have been added. Sure I'd prefer a wider selection of merchandise, appropriately placed in it's correctly themed location, but it seems that much of America itself has become homogenized the same way as the MK has in that department. That said, I still return home from each WDW vacation with the sense of wonderment that I had some 35 years ago. I appreciate the small improvements like the total redesign of a Frontierland eatery to the total re-do of the Haunted Mansion and hope that the trend continues throughout the MK. My one continuing disappointment is the removal of mature trees that once graced both Town Square and the hub. I do understand why the hub trees were removed (Wishes viewing) but felt the Town Square trees should have been spared. At least we haven't seen the massacre of Tom Sawyer Island as DL did when Fantasmic took over that space. I've stopped complaining to Disney management and started complimenting the positive changes and improvements that have been made. Maybe if enough people took this approach, more improvements would be made. That's my pipe dream.
      WDW-'73,'76,'77,'78,'79,'80,'81,'82,'86,'91,'95,'96,'9 7,'99,'00,'01,'02,'03,'05,'06,'07,
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      DL-
      '79,'81,'84,'91,'05,'07,'10,'14

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      • #33
        Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

        Originally posted by BC_DisneyGeek View Post
        Not sure what Phillharmagic replaced.
        Originally posted by Coheteboy View Post
        It replaced a Lion King puppet show.
        And before the Legend of the Lion King show, it was called the Fantasyland Theatre, where classic Disney shorts were shown all day, then it was where Magic Journeys was shown after Captain EO took over the Magic Eye theatre over at EPCOT. And before THAT, it was originally the Mickey Mouse Revue.

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        • #34
          Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

          Originally posted by disneyfann121 View Post
          Cohete, when I made my first pilgrimage to WDW in 2007, I had already been to Disneyland at least ten times in my life. What I didn't do was obsessively compare WDW to DL; what I did do was have the best vacation of my life. I'll grant you that Disneyland is the best theme park, hands down; but again, I was too busy having fun to worry about comparing the two.

          I went to DLR the next year, in May '08, and had a great time there, too. Then I returned to WDW in May '09 and had another great trip. I guess I should have been running off a mental "DLR vs. WDW" checklist in an attempt to ruin my fun.

          Now I'm not saying that WDW is perfect, or that I wouldn't change some things (e.g., Stitch, New Management), but let's not forget that WDW offers a load of attractions not available on the east coast, not to mention some superior versions, like my beloved Mansion. I don't have to be "none the wiser" in order to enjoy both resorts, nor do I have to be ignorant about what they say about Tokyo. I just have to appreciate them for what they are and what they offer. If you and some others can't do that, then that's unfortunate, but at least you'll always have your beloved Disneyland.

          Incidentally, some people on these boards have admitted that the rides at Disneysea are boring, although the park itself is very beautiful. Even if I had never read that, I still wouldn't waste any of my precious vacation time wondering if I should be in Tokyo instead. Especially not when Orlando is a painless three hour direct flight from Montreal!


          I didn't say one couldn't still enjoy themselves at WDW, but I'm also saying that my experience gets worse and worse, not better and better. I don't go to WDW with a mental note to ruin my own experience. They do it on their own.

          ChrisFL summarized it perfectly. I feel that they try less and less to impress and just rely on first time tourists who don't know any better. When you're a guest at WDW, you're just another cow.

          When Fantasmic ended at MGM / DHS, I wanted to check out the shops, but no... they shuttered them as I got to the door. "We're closed! Go to Downtown Disney!" were their response. Wow, great service huh?

          That's when I realized the tomfoolery that WDW was conducting. They're now even controlling where I shop! And of course the merchandise is all the same so why should it matter to me? But it DOES matter. Taking a shuttle to Downtown Disney is a pain the arse!

          And Disney doesn't care. They know you'll go to downtown disney because there's no other park that's still open!


          If Adventurer's Club was still open, I probably would have already made a return trip to WDW. But without it, it's not worth it to deal with unhappy CMs.


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          • #35
            Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

            I kinda get the concept and opinion of the park deteriorating, and I actually have to agree. I don't know, but there's just something about MK that is missing. It's too spacious, even for its larger amount of rides in comparison to DL. I just find DL to be more magical than MK, but that's just my opinion.
            California Screamin' Ride Count: 111





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            • #36
              Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

              I went to WDW for the first time this past summer. I really like it there. But, Magic Kindgom needs a major makeover. It seems really old like the 90's and it's not up to date.

              Just makeover it and whola! you have a up-to-date park like Disneyland.
              My Brand New Youtube channel -"SoCal ATTRACTIONS 360"
              http://www.youtube.com/SoCalAttractions360

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              • #37
                Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

                ^ That is totally what I was thinking. It's too 20th century, and I also think they need to COMPLETELY retrack and build SM. It looks like trash inside there.
                California Screamin' Ride Count: 111





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                • #38
                  Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

                  Originally posted by disneyfann121 View Post
                  You may prefer other parks over the MK, that's a matter of opinion. But I fail to understand what you consider to be "ridiculous" prices. If they were, I know I couldn't afford a week or ten day Orlando trip. Most people go for a week or more, and with the multi day packages, you can end up paying $25-30 a day for your park tickets -- not to mention the various discounts and promotions. How is that "ridiculous"?

                  I remember my first trip, two years ago. We paid $1300 for ten days of hotel + park hoppers for two. That's hardly ridiculous; more like a bargain.
                  Those crazy fanatics who somehow find a 10-day vacation to WDW something worth doing, will be rewarded by the current pricing structure. at WDW, the longer you stay, the less it cost. But my argument about those "ridiculous" prices come from comparing WDW's ticket prices to comparable admission media at the other DL parks worldwide..and keep in mind, I am not taking hotels and free meal deals in consideration here, JUST the parks. (you would not catch me staying at any of the ghetto value or moderate resorts there, EVER)
                  Go to the websites for DLR, DLRP, TDR, and HKDL... and compare their 1, 2, 3 and 4-day passport prices to the 1,2,3, and 4-day passport at WDW. Of course, you may need an exchange rate and calculator when comparing Paris, Tokyo and Hong Kong, but trust me... WDW's admission is much higher than comparable prices.... and when you take in consideration that 4-days is not nearly enough to see ALL that the two parks in tokyo have to offer....it really makes WDW look really bad.
                  Besides.. if you feel that WDW's 5+ day vacations are a steal is because Disney wants to sequester you on their property and made the deal sweeter so you do not see what fabulous themed resorts can be found within a 25 mile perimeter from WDW. So, NO, it's not a value. you are being suckered into staying within WDW for days on end..
                  Last edited by TDLFAN; 11-15-2009, 09:19 AM.

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                  • #39
                    Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

                    Originally posted by A113 View Post
                    I kinda get the concept and opinion of the park deteriorating, and I actually have to agree. I don't know, but there's just something about MK that is missing. It's too spacious, even for its larger amount of rides in comparison to DL. I just find DL to be more magical than MK, but that's just my opinion.
                    Interesting. The "too spacious" argument is just about the only issue (besides the canopy over World Bazaar) that many use to bring down TDL, and that spaciousness at TDL is often 3 times more than what is found at WDW. But at least TDL is much cleaner and better maintained, but that a different argument. Still, keep in mind that DL, even in its charming size and cozy feeling/atmosphere, packs more attractions, shows and other things to do over what the MK has to offer. And even TDL, takes advantage of it's huge open spaces to offer guests the most extravagant, biggest parades and shows ever produced for any single DL on Earth...and has more rides, restaurants, shops and things to do over the MK. Someone previously mentioned that the Mk needed to be "up to date' like DL. Hmmm tough call... Up to date can only apply to TDS and DLP, but DL does a darn good job offering a most superior disney experience over the MK.

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                    • #40
                      Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

                      You pretty much just nailed it, you explained it better than I did.
                      California Screamin' Ride Count: 111





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                      • #41
                        Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

                        Originally posted by Micoofy Duck View Post
                        Your response was completely predictable. I was waiting for someone to yet again use me as an example as what is to be expected from an average guest who doesn't see the little things as something "important".

                        Again the park is fine. Yeah it could be better as DL could be better. DL is getting much improvements and upgrades and MK will soon get some of their own. I don't care about wear and tear of signs or walls. I know it will eventually get done/fixed and repaired but probably not at the speed many here want.

                        Seriously, and I've said this before, if anyone here complaining and moaning about the parks really want to do something about it then get yourself into the company and actually have the power to do something. Just like many here feel as I am just content with the "average" park I feel people here are just content with writing articles, posting on message boards about the decline of WDW yet really do nothing else to change it in terms of getting into the company to find out what REALLY is going on behind the scenes of the company. Everyone here assumes they know what's going on but you really don't know unless you are inside the company working on MK and WDW from within.

                        I also believe that if the park today was as "good" as most people here remember it was back in the day that there would STILL be people looking for little things to complain about. It's a never ending cycle that I don't personally focus on when I'm visiting either DL or WDW on property or when I view the parks via websites, video and blogs from here in Texas.

                        This is why I continue to react the way I do to threads and postings about MK declining or falling below expectations. I just don't see MK as declining, even during my 10 years of recent visits. I've also been to the parks back when I was a child and I don't think of today's park as not what I remember or as "good" as the parks supposely once were back in the day. I love the additions and improvements since my last visits as a child and over the past decade of visits.

                        I just don't see the parks in WDW declining and I will continue to say I don't think there's a problem with WDW as many here will continue to stand by what they believe is WDW declining as proven via the little things.
                        I agree. I've been visiting WDW about yearly since 1988. I am still enchanted every time I walk down Main Street. I know there might be little things that are in need of a little repair. That's ok. It will be repaired soon enough.

                        So, a ride likeThunder Mountain hasn't changed for years -- but that's what I love about it! I still go on that ride like 10 times each time I visit. It makes me happy.

                        I just know that whatever happens in my life, Disney World with always be there - like a second home. A place I can wander through and forget about the stress of everyday life. Walt intended it to be a place for families to have a good time together. That is what I see when I visit.
                        - Larisa

                        Everybody neat and pretty? Then, on with the show! -MMC

                        :ap:

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                        • #42
                          Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

                          Originally posted by steve2wdw View Post
                          I've been visiting the MK since 1973 and yes, there has been much CHANGE. Like many others, I miss some of the classic attractions that have disappeared, but also appreciate some of the newer classics like Mickey's Philharmagic, that have been added. Sure I'd prefer a wider selection of merchandise, appropriately placed in it's correctly themed location, but it seems that much of America itself has become homogenized the same way as the MK has in that department. That said, I still return home from each WDW vacation with the sense of wonderment that I had some 35 years ago. I appreciate the small improvements like the total redesign of a Frontierland eatery to the total re-do of the Haunted Mansion and hope that the trend continues throughout the MK. My one continuing disappointment is the removal of mature trees that once graced both Town Square and the hub. I do understand why the hub trees were removed (Wishes viewing) but felt the Town Square trees should have been spared. At least we haven't seen the massacre of Tom Sawyer Island as DL did when Fantasmic took over that space. I've stopped complaining to Disney management and started complimenting the positive changes and improvements that have been made. Maybe if enough people took this approach, more improvements would be made. That's my pipe dream.
                          I agree
                          - Larisa

                          Everybody neat and pretty? Then, on with the show! -MMC

                          :ap:

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                          • #43
                            Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

                            Originally posted by Risa View Post
                            I agree
                            Indeed, if we look for the bad that's all we'll ever see and where does that get us?
                            From the deepest darkest parts of Africa to Splishy Splash and the TTC it was never a job, it was always more of an adventure.

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                            • #44
                              Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

                              The apologist positions espoused by some here are frighteningly reminiscent of Huxley's Brave New World:

                              "I don't understand anything," she said with decision, determined to preserve her incomprehension intact. "Nothing. Least of all," she continued in another tone "why you don't take soma when you have these dreadful ideas of yours. You'd forget all about them. And instead of feeling miserable, you'd be jolly. So jolly,"

                              Soma in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World (1932)


                              Paraphrased from above posts:

                              - Don't focus on the negative. Focus on what MK does well. It does so many things so very well and you'll be happier.

                              - Don't be concerned if retail is becomes homogeneous, because that reflects the wider changes in our American style of consumption. You'll be happier.

                              - Don't complain to WDW management about things you find substandard. Praise them for the things they do well. You'll be happier.

                              Some more soma, anyone?

                              ****

                              The apologists and the quality-assurers all want the same thing - a MK (and WDW) of the highest possible quality - but they get there in two very different ways.

                              Quality Assurer (active): When they see quality slipping, they make their opinions known - to management, guest relations, and, yes, here on message boards - in the hopes that the deficiency will be addressed. WDW gets better by patrons being aware and actively voicing what they approve and disapprove of.

                              Apologists (passive): When (if) they see quality slipping they (a) train themselves to ignore it, (b) make excuses for management, or (c) blindly focus on the good. WDW gets better by these patrons telling themselves in a pixie-dust-induced, robot-like psychosis: "all is well. it is magical. all is well. it is magical", regardless if some things are not up to standard.

                              I don't give a drop about how an apologist perceives the park. What I do care about is the idea - amazingly proposed by some posters above - that management should be praised for the good they do, but not criticized for the bad they do.

                              The very least these viewholders can do is keep quiet, enjoy the park, and allow we Quality Assurers to continue to try to make it better for you.

                              If we look at the bad, that's all we'll ever see where does that get us?
                              Who made that rule up? I look at the bad, and yet I still see plenty of good. Where does that get us, you ask. It gets us away from the bad! It gets us to begin to address the problem (in what admittedly limited ways we outside shareholders of the Company can), rather than turning a blind eye and taking the soma Disney offers us. This is the first step to adult problem-solving.
                              Last edited by RandySavage; 11-15-2009, 12:35 PM.
                              http://www.idealbuildout.blogspot.com/

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                              • #45
                                Re: OK, so what's wrong with MK?

                                We complain because we care. We want to see the MK get the attention and maintenance it needs and deserves. Disney is always showcasing MK as it's "crown jewel" park. It's ironic because it's the park that needs the most TLC. Hopefully when this Fantasyland makeover is done (when is it supposed to start anyway? They say it'll be all done by what, 2012? They better get cracking as that's only a couple years away and what they plan on doing is a MAJOR overhaul) it'll help MK up its game.

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