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  • #21
    Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

    Lightning509s, that's a heck of a list!

    Although, I can't help thinking that the impressive development of DL was driven by the following factors:

    1. Walt was alive and very 'hands-on'.
    2. The pace of technological change was immense at this time.
    3. Private companies could showcase new technology much more widely than today.
    4. The park was new and developing, so finance was much easier to raise.
    5. Guest expectations were more moderate - they were seeing all this for the first time.
    6. 'Disney' as a company was vastly different to the 'global' corporation it is today.

    Inevitably, when Walt died the clear thinking vision that had developed all of the parks would be compromised and handed over to the money men to control - in turn they would duty bound to return profits to the shareholders. I wonder how profitable DL was in the early days???

    Plus, as I mentioned before, industrial technology was developing at a heck of a pace back then. Anamatronics development was cutting edge and the ONLY examples of it were in Walt's theme parks. Today, this sort of tech is found in many 'commercial' main street environments and it's lost it's 'wow' factor. What can Disney bring to their properties that is truly earth shattering and 'new'. In simple terms they are competing with XBox, Wii etc. Imagine how much it costs to develop these platforms and imagine how utterly huge the development costs would be to bring new attraction to the parks.

    The point I'm trying to make is that, comparing Disney of today with the Disney of Walt's era doesn't tell the true story. Everything has moved on - not for the better in many cases!

    Looking forward, we will get a barometer of what Disney of the new millennium can deliver when in Florida (at least) the new Fantasyland and Star Tours open. This will be the first time we can truly judge where the company is... I don't think that plus-ing the Haunted Mansion or Space Mountain are fair indicators of the state of things!

    Comment


    • #22
      Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

      Originally posted by Airamerica View Post
      Lightning509s, that's a heck of a list!

      Although, I can't help thinking that the impressive development of DL was driven by the following factors:

      1. Walt was alive and very 'hands-on'.
      2. The pace of technological change was immense at this time.
      3. Private companies could showcase new technology much more widely than today.
      4. The park was new and developing, so finance was much easier to raise.
      5. Guest expectations were more moderate - they were seeing all this for the first time.
      6. 'Disney' as a company was vastly different to the 'global' corporation it is today.

      Inevitably, when Walt died the clear thinking vision that had developed all of the parks would be compromised and handed over to the money men to control - in turn they would duty bound to return profits to the shareholders. I wonder how profitable DL was in the early days???

      Plus, as I mentioned before, industrial technology was developing at a heck of a pace back then. Anamatronics development was cutting edge and the ONLY examples of it were in Walt's theme parks. Today, this sort of tech is found in many 'commercial' main street environments and it's lost it's 'wow' factor. What can Disney bring to their properties that is truly earth shattering and 'new'. In simple terms they are competing with XBox, Wii etc. Imagine how much it costs to develop these platforms and imagine how utterly huge the development costs would be to bring new attraction to the parks.

      The point I'm trying to make is that, comparing Disney of today with the Disney of Walt's era doesn't tell the true story. Everything has moved on - not for the better in many cases!

      Looking forward, we will get a barometer of what Disney of the new millennium can deliver when in Florida (at least) the new Fantasyland and Star Tours open. This will be the first time we can truly judge where the company is... I don't think that plus-ing the Haunted Mansion or Space Mountain are fair indicators of the state of things!
      Airamerica, points well taken. Thankyou. I still hold to my belief that WDW management (not the company as a whole) has become stagnent and has failed to maintain this wondrous property to it's full potential.

      WDW just finished work on three new DVC properties while the Pop Century resort remains half completed. Just think about this. Without the Parks and other entertainment venues around the property, would WDW need all these new resorts? No! Therefore, it is the responsibility of WDW management to maintain all aspects of the property to the highest of standards. In this aspect, I firmly believe they have failed us. I'm not a Disney hater. I just know that much more could be done that's not. A little attraction here, a little paint there, just doesn't cut it. And this new "Princesstopia" is downright pathetic. A glorified meet and greet area with one new attraction plus Dumbo on steroids. Phooey. And what about Tomorrowland? More like a mishmash of space fillers. As one other poster wrote, we need more of the "Shock and Awe" at Disney that the property is just not getting.

      J. Lassetter, with the aid of Matt Quimet before him, has done a splendid job with resurrecting Disneyland and DCA. I just wish WDW would get the same TLC. It's sad when non-Disney owned parks - Tokyo/Paris have set the standard for excellence that is lacking at WDW.

      Comment


      • #23
        Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

        Originally posted by Lightning509s View Post
        Airamerica, points well taken. Thankyou. I still hold to my belief that WDW management (not the company as a whole) has become stagnent and has failed to maintain this wondrous property to it's full potential.

        WDW just finished work on three new DVC properties while the Pop Century resort remains half completed. Just think about this. Without the Parks and other entertainment venues around the property, would WDW need all these new resorts? No! Therefore, it is the responsibility of WDW management to maintain all aspects of the property to the highest of standards. In this aspect, I firmly believe they have failed us. I'm not a Disney hater. I just know that much more could be done that's not. A little attraction here, a little paint there, just doesn't cut it. And this new "Princesstopia" is downright pathetic. A glorified meet and greet area with one new attraction plus Dumbo on steroids. Phooey. And what about Tomorrowland? More like a mishmash of space fillers. As one other poster wrote, we need more of the "Shock and Awe" at Disney that the property is just not getting.

        J. Lassetter, with the aid of Matt Quimet before him, has done a splendid job with resurrecting Disneyland and DCA. I just wish WDW would get the same TLC. It's sad when non-Disney owned parks - Tokyo/Paris have set the standard for excellence that is lacking at WDW.
        I think you make excellent points also. And I don't want to sound like a member of management but I think an investment line has to be drawn somewhere!

        I agree totally that Pop Century needs to be completed, or the unfinished land redeveloped but how much do you spend on either outcome? Whilst I'm frustrated that it's not a finished project I don't think it represents a drop in standards - I mean, it's not like guests can wander around a half completed building site. From the road the property is obscured and from Pop Century you have to make a reasonable effort to see that anything was intended for that parcel of land!

        As for placing and attraction here, or there I return to my 'investment' point... There isn't a bottomless pit of finance to dip into, allowing management to install fantastic new attractions every couple of years. Regarding, Tomorrowland where do you start and end? Tomorrowland stopped being about the 'future' in the early 90's. You have to accept that the original 60's vision of the future, (which this area was designed around) anchored the theming to that version of the future - clearly, they were imagineering 30 years forward. Now, 40 years down the track you have to accept that it's become a 'retro' vision of another time completely. The only way to resolve this is to tear this entire land down and start again and that won't happen because people still visit this area of the park and use the attractions.

        It's also worth considering how much redeveloping Tomorrowland would cost... Buying into cutting edge technologies, which could carry this area forward another 30 years would be massive - you could spend $1bn+ on this area and still have to repeat the exercise again in 3 or 4 decades when the real future overtakes the viison!

        I feel that the new "Princesstopia' is a good move forward, it caters for a specific audience (young girls and mothers to a lesser extent), competes with Universal and the assumed impact of Harry Potter and more importantly uses undeveloped land and space. The latter point is especially significant since the demise of 20,000 Leagues. Ok, you can always demand more and the meet and greets could be seen as controversial but I don't think we should underestimate the significance of an entirely new big-ticket attraction and Dumbo on steroids. From the look of the concept art this entire area should be a vast step forward.

        You could argue that management should compliment the 'girls' area with the much discussed 'Western River Extension' aimed at boys and dads and who's to say a version of that won't happen in the next 20 years?

        The entire WDW property is a balancing act - maintaining what's there and choosing to delicately add new attractions when the economics permit... The 'core' thing that drives this strategy is you, me and the other millions of people that 'vote' with their feet and keep visiting the parks. Not least the number of 'first timers' visiting the world. If these numbers flat-line then the immediate future could be different and us veterans might start to see some changes we either desperately want, or would welcome as additions to an already great and fantastic place!

        Comment


        • #24
          Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

          A few quotes from Walt:

          A) People look at me in many ways. They've said, 'The guy has no regard for money.' That is not true. I have had regard for money. It depends on who's saying that. Some people worship money as something you've got to have piled up in a big pile somewhere. I've only thought about money in one way, and that is to do something with it. I don't think there's a thing I own that I will ever get the benefit of except through doing things with it. I don't even want the dividends from the stock in the studio, because the government's going to take it away. I'd rather have that in (the company) working...
          Not many people like Walt exists these days. With this economy, money IS tight. You'd be foolish to spend unwisely and with taht said I don't see your point.

          B) Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money.
          Sadly, DL maybe wasn't but every theme park afterwards was made to. MK was made to raise money for EPCOT... the city. )

          C) Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world.
          Neither will any other Disney park. It's a great thing!

          D) We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.

          E) You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway.

          What are the point of these quotes? Does WDW not follow these? )




          1955
          - July 17 1955 Disneyland Opens at a cost of $17 million
          Attractions included:

          Main Street USA
          - Disneyland and Santa Fe Railroad, Two Disneyland steam trains (C.K. Holliday and E.P. Ripley) (Opened July, Closed October 1974)
          - Main Street Railroad Station (Opened July)
          - Horse Drawn Street Cars (Opened July)
          - Horse Drawn Fire Wagon (Closed August 1960)
          - Main Street Cinema (Opened July)
          - Horse Drawn Surreys (Closed January 1971)
          - Main Street Penny Arcade (Opened July)
          - Main Street Shooting Gallery (Closed January 1962)
          Adventureland

          - Jungle Cruise (Opened July)

          Fantasyland

          - King Arthur Carousel (Opened July)
          - Peter Pan Flight (Opened July)

          - Canal Boats of the World (Opened July, Closed September 1955)

          - Casey Jr. Circus Train (Opened July)
          - Dumbo the Flying Elephant (Opened August)
          - Mickey Mouse Club Theater (Opened August, Closed January 1964)
          - Mickey Mouse Club Circus (Opened November, Closed January 1956)
          - Mad Tea Party (Opened July)
          Frontierland
          - Stage Coach (Closed February 1956)
          - Mule Pack (Closed February 1956)
          - Mark Twain Riverboat (Opened July)
          - Golden Horseshoe Review (Opened July, Closed October 1986) replaced with Golden Horseshoe Jamboree
          - Davy Crockett Museum (Closed December 1955)
          - Conestoga Wagons (Opened August, Closed September 1959)
          - Mike Fink Keel Boats (Opened December, Closed January 1994)
          - Indian Village (Closed January 1956)
          - Miniature Horse Corral (Closed July 1957)
          - Frontierland Railroad Station (Opened July)
          Tomorrowland
          - Tomorrowland Autopia (Closed September 1999)
          - Space Station X-1 (Opened July, Closed January 1958)
          - Cinerama USA (360 degree film, A Tour of the West) (Closed January 1960)
          - Monsanto Hall of Chemistry (Closed September 1966)
          - Rocket to the Moon (Closed September 1966)
          - Moonliner (Closed September 1966)
          - Clock of the World (Closed September 1966)
          - The World Beneath Us (Closed December 1959)
          - 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (Opened August, Closed August 1966)
          - Aluminum Hall of Fame (Opened December, Closed July 1960)
          - Thimble Drome Flight Circle (Opened September, Closed January 1966)
          - Hobbyland (Opened September, Closed January 1966)
          - Disneyland opens to the public on July 18th

          *** Disneyland opens to the public with admission costing just $1. Cost of attractions ranged from 10 to 35 cents.***

          - Fantasy in the Sky added 1956
          - Disneyland Hotel Opens October
          - Ticket books are first available containing A, B and C tickets (October)

          1956:
          - Astro Jets (Opened March 1956, Closed August 1964)
          - Bathroom of Tomorrow (Opened April 1956, Closed August 1960)
          - Storybook Land Canal Boats (Opened June 1956)
          - Tom Sawyers Island (Opened June 1956)
          - Fort Wilderness (Opened June 1956, closed November 2002)
          - Tom Sawyer Islands Rafts (Opened June 1956)
          - Skyway to Tomorrowland and Skyway to Fantasyland (Opened June 1956, Closed November 1994)
          - Horseless Carriages (red and yellow) (Opened May 1956)
          - Rainbow Ridge Pack Mules (Opened June 1956, Closed October 1959)
          - Rainbow Mountain Stage Coach (Opened June 1956, Closed September 1959)
          - Rainbow Caverns Mine Train (Opened July 1956, Closed October 1959)
          - Main Street Omnibus (Opened August 1956)
          - Indian Village (Opened July 1956, Closed October 1971)
          - Indian War Canoes (Opened July 1956, Closed January 1971)
          - Junior Autopia. (Opened July 1956, Closed December 1958)

          - Color Gallery (Opened March 1956, Closed January 1963)

          - Phantom Boats (Opened July 1956, Closed October 1956)
          - Mineral Hall (Opened July 1956, Closed December 1962)
          - Fantasyland Theater (Opened August 1956, Closed December 1981)
          - Fantasyland Railroad Station opens
          - D tickets are added (January)

          1957:
          - Midget Autopia (Opened April, Closed April 1966)
          - Sleeping Beauty Castle (walk through) (Opened April, Closed January 2002)
          - Holidayland (Opened June, Closed January 1961)
          - Monsanto House of the Future (Opened June, Closed December 1967)
          - Viewliner (Opened June, Closed September 1958)
          - Motor Boat Cruise (Opened June, Closed January 1993)
          - Indian Village Rafts (Opened July, Closed January 1971)
          - Frontierland Shooting Gallery. (Opened July, Closed March 1985)

          1958:
          - Grand Canyon Diorama (Opened March)
          - Alice in Wonderland (Opened June)
          - Columbia Sailing Ship (Opened June)
          - Motorized Main Street Fire Truck (Opened August)
          - Satellite View of America (Opened January, Closed February 1960)
          - Disneyland and Santa Fe Railroad adds Fred Gurley Engine. March 28th
          - Tomorrowland Railroad Station
          - First year Candlelight Procession (December)
          - Disneyland Kennel Opens (January 18th)

          1959:
          - Fantasyland Autopia (Opened June, Closed September 1999)
          - Submarine Voyage (Opened June, Closed September 1998)
          - Disneyland-Alweg Monorail System, Mark I Train on a .8 mile track around
          Tomorrowland (Opened June 14th)
          - Matterhorn Bobsleds (Opened June)
          - Disneyland and Santa Fe Railroad adds Ernest S. Marsh Engine. July 25th
          - E-tickets added to ticket book (June)

          1960:
          - Main Street Electric Cars
          - Art of Animation Exhibit (Opened May, Closed September 1966)

          - Skull Rock (Opened December, Closed January 1982)

          - New Cinerama Film (America the Beautiful). (Opened July, Closed June 1967)
          - Catfish Cove (Opened January, Closed January 1964)



          1961:
          - Snow White Grotto and Wishing Well (Opened March)
          - Debut of the Mark II Monorail Extended track length to 2.5 miles, Monorail to the
          Disneyland Hotel (June) Specs: 112 FT., 4 Car, 108 Person Seating Capacity
          - Flying Saucers (Opened August, Closed September 1966)
          - Babes in Toyland Exhibit (Opened December, Closed September 1963)
          - First all night grad night party for High School Graduates is held in June.
          - Tinkerbell has her first flight at Disneyland

          1962:
          - Safari Shooting Gallery (Opened June, Closed January 1982)
          - Adventureland Shooting Gallery (Opened January, Closed November 1969)
          - Indian Village (Expansion)
          - Jungle Cruise (New scenes added) A group of Audio-Animatronics elephants in the Elephant Bathing Pool are added to the Jungle Cruise at Disneyland.
          - Swiss Family Tree House. (Opened November, Closed May 1999)


          1963:
          - Enchanted Tiki Room (Introduction of Audio-Animatronics) (Opened June 23rd)
          - Mickey Mouse Club Headquarters (Opened January, Closed January 1964)
          - First year for Parade of Toys during the Christmas holiday season.


          1964:
          - Columbia Sailing Ship (Opened February)
          - Tomorrowland Jets (Opened August, Closed September 1966)
          - Jungle Cruise (New scenes added).
          - The New York World's Fair opens. Walt Disney's WED company constructed pavilions for: Ford ("Magic Skyway"); General Electric ("Progressland"); the state of Illinois ("Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln") and Pepsi-Cola ("It's a Small World"). (April 22)


          - Fashions and Fabrics Through the Ages (Opened March, Closed December 1965)

          1966:

          - Fort Wilderness (Opened June)


          *** Walter Elias Disney, dies of cancer at 9:35 AM December 15, at the age of 65. He had been recovering from surgery a month earlier to remove one of his lungs. Roy Disney, his brother, takes over the Disney corporation.***

          1967:
          - Pirates of the Caribbean (Opened March 18th)
          - Circle Vision Featuring America the Beautiful (Opened June, Closed January 1964)
          - Carousel of Progress (Opened July, Closed September 1973)
          - PeopleMover (Opened July, Closed August 1985)
          - Rocket Jets (Opened July, Closed January 1997)
          - Flight to the Moon (Opened August, Closed March 1975)
          - Adventures through Inner Space (Opened August, Closed September 1985)
          - Alpine Gardens (Opened December, Closed February 1996)
          - Club 33 (Private club) opens in New Orleans Square



          I now challenge you to tell me that the same amount of activity within the parks exists today. Can you just imagine what the parks could be like if current management was this aggressive with the Walts "plus-ing" style???


          What does this at all have to do with WDW or even the MK? Times are different. People aren't spending money. Plus you don't need a ton of attractions to be a great park (Epcot, DAK)


          A helk of a lot better than it currently is!!! I rest my case!:imtheone:
          Whatever you say

          one hundred and one

          Comment


          • #25
            Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

            Originally posted by Airamerica View Post
            Reading through all the posts it seems evident that many of the complaints are actually routed in the rising costs associated with visiting the WDW resort. I accept that things are more expensive but does this mean that the detractors believe that WDW is no longer value for money, like it was in the 80's???
            WDW is not a value because they do not offer anything extra special that would make it valuable. Throwing a free meal plan and giving you 3 free nights at their hotel after you pay for four.. or making you buy a 5+ day passport so you pay peanuts for the extra days.. is simply not a value, but an underhanded attempt to sequester you on their property at all cost, even if it means giving the hotels and meals for free, because they know you will spend your money in there for the lenth of your visit.

            When you pay about $65 for a single day in Tokyo and get ALL of the rides and regular live shows PLUS all of the special holiday entertainment.. from 9am till 10pm.. then you go to the MK and pay nearly $80 for a day at the park, plus being forced to dish out $59 plus tax if you want to see the Xmas party... Where is the value there????

            If this is the case, the assumed decline isn't related to any investment (or lack of) from Disney management but individual frustration that it costs too much now!
            This is debatable.. but can only speak for myself. I pay over $700 annually for my AP to TDR and get absolutely *NOTHING* in return except for just park admission. There are no perks with that pass.. but I pay it gladly because TDR delivers the good in style and with high quality in a CONSISTENT manner. At WDW, if they were consistent about the quality of their maintenance, upgraded attractions, lavish live spectacular and a well staffed park, then I would be a much happier person.. and honestly, I would pay much more if I felt the quality matched the price. But it does not, reason why I buy the discounted FL resident 4-park AP.. simply because what I get in return at WDW is not enough to make me willing to pay more. "Value" is one thing that has killed the experience there. Disney brags about being better than the rest, well, I think the experience and the price should reflect that as well. When you have cheap economy hotels that are one step above the Comfort inn.. well.. it brings the Disney name down a notch.

            Again, rather than talking about it, can anyone supply any actual evidence?
            You know? You are ON! Exactly what do you want to see? Dirt under/around the benches? Cracks on pavements and sidewalks, dumpy looking CMs, overflown garbage cans?.. Just let me know and as soon as I can get to the MK, I will take pictures and post them here JUST for you, because I am sure not everyone else would care to see the harsh truth. But I am willing to put my reputation and opinions to the test with such a lovely a telling picturial, which frankly, I have not done in the past because I know that I would be acussed of "looking for faults" on purpose.
            BTW, on my recent visit I spent the same amount as I did in 2004. I checked my credit card statements like-for-like over the same duration and it was within $50. Obviously, I didn't compare every snack and meal, just the 'pure' cost of my 21 days in the WDW resort!
            21 days in the resort?! Ok, now I know you are not the average fanatic, and you just lost a bit of your momentum with me because everyone here knows that for you to get real good value at WDW, you have to live there for at least a week.. so no wonder you still find this place a real deal. Crazy!

            Comment


            • #26
              Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

              TDLFAN, I'd love to see the pictures you mentioned and I think given the nature of this thread it would be a great addition - good on you for taking up the challenge!

              What I didn't get about your response was the last paragraph - I come to WDW for 21 days every quarter. I hope my post didn't read like I get there for 21 days every 5 years!

              Either way, it doesn't cost me anymore now than back then :-) or maybe I'm just a bit tight with my money!

              Comment


              • #27
                Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                Anyone who comes to WDW and spend 21 days there in a row is in really bad need of getting out to other vacation places more often. I live and breath Disney parks monthly.. have been visiting WDW monthly since 1981 when I moved to Orlando, have been visiting TDR monthly since may 1989, have been hundreds of times to DLP and DLR, and have been visiting HKDL on average 4-8 times a year since it opened. In fact, I have owned APs to ALL of the Disney Resorts on Earth at one time or another.... But 21 days in a row of Disney?? The thought of it makes me ill. As much as I love the Disney parks, and I do, regardless of how tough my criticism is about some of them.. I just could not be at any given Disney park more than 2-3 days at a time.
                As for pictures.. I will see to it to bring you photographic proof of the maintenance problems I see at WDW, which are less prevalent at the other parks.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                  Originally posted by Lightning509s View Post

                  A few quotes from Walt:

                  A) People look at me in many ways. They've said, 'The guy has no regard for money.' That is not true. I have had regard for money. It depends on who's saying that. Some people worship money as something you've got to have piled up in a big pile somewhere. I've only thought about money in one way, and that is to do something with it. I don't think there's a thing I own that I will ever get the benefit of except through doing things with it. I don't even want the dividends from the stock in the studio, because the government's going to take it away. I'd rather have that in (the company) working...

                  B) Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money.

                  C) Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world.

                  D) We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.

                  E) You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway.

                  Some of you may have seen my post in another thread that basically said it depends what you do with the profits. Walt clearly only ever ploughed them back into the business. That will simply not happen today because of investors. Investors want returns. Anything that goes out as a dividend is not spent on improvment.

                  Couple that with the fact that people that post here have generally been going to the parks for a few years, and therefore some of what was exciting, is now old hat because you've seen it already and you're a bit older and worldly wise. The same things as last trip are simply not enough. I suspect many people don't bother visiting their favourites every visit because you can't get round it all right.... you visit whatever takes your fancy each trip. This means some things simply don't get the audience, and then get closed, at which point people can be up in arms. Some Classics always get the audience. If an attraction draws the young, and retains the nostalgic as they get older, then it's got real staying power. If you "grow" out of something, then it needs to continually hook the kids , or it dies out. Some things capture a zeitgheist and work for the generation that grows up with them and they retain interest through nostalgia, but eventually they are doomed to die out. Some things continually refresh their audience with todays children, it's what makes them real classics. (haunted mansion, small world)
                  Music and fashion are similar, todays brilliant, may be tomorrows laughing stock, or yesterdays classics !

                  Tower of Terror was fantastic the first ride and is still fantastic after being the most ridden thing on 3 trips over 8 years. Toy story...is old hat after one visit, I predict they will take the technology and put it to better use, and then toy Story will decline. It may take 10 years for this, but it will happen, as toy story lacks story !

                  How many attractions are still amazing to a first time viewer, as this is a massive hook ?
                  Carousel of Progress amaze anyone still ? It did me on first visit in 03!

                  It would be very interesting for people to quote their opinions and then to quote their age. I suspect the younger would generally be happier, whilst those of us that are a little older and have seen a bit of life and also seen what it costs, are harder to please. Eventually we'll alll get in the "i'm lucky to still be alive" category and enjoy each moment as you can.
                  Smile, you never know who's looking !

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                    Originally posted by Thorpeedo View Post
                    Tower of Terror was fantastic the first ride and is still fantastic after being the most ridden thing on 3 trips over 8 years. Toy story...is old hat after one visit, I predict they will take the technology and put it to better use, and then toy Story will decline. It may take 10 years for this, but it will happen, as toy story lacks story !

                    How many attractions are still amazing to a first time viewer, as this is a massive hook ?
                    Carousel of Progress amaze anyone still ? It did me on first visit in 03!

                    It would be very interesting for people to quote their opinions and then to quote their age. I suspect the younger would generally be happier, whilst those of us that are a little older and have seen a bit of life and also seen what it costs, are harder to please. Eventually we'll alll get in the "i'm lucky to still be alive" category and enjoy each moment as you can.
                    Well, I am not giving you my age, but rest assured that I am as young as anyone else who is a fan of Disney's fantasy. With that said.. let's move to more pressing matters.
                    I think you are the first person that agrees with me in regards to Toy Story Mania. It's overrated and not too good a ride. Sadly, this is what Disney thinks people like (oversized video games) so they are going forward with this ride at TDS as well. TOT, yes, a fun fun ride everytime you drop in... and again TDS' version is revised and much darker than the Twilight version. But WDW's version still has the roughest drops. Then there are the missing opportunities.. like the closing of the 20K ride at the MK. If only they had re-imagined it, and replaced it with the fabulous version of it we have at TDS.. the MK's fantasyland would have been in a better pplateau now.. but no. Lets cater to preschoolers and build a playground that happily will go away once the proposed Fantasyland re-do gets underway, if ever.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                      Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
                      Lets cater to preschoolers and build a playground that happily will go away once the proposed Fantasyland re-do gets underway, if ever.

                      That's one major factor from my trips to WDW that really didn't sit with me right. I felt pandered to. I felt like people who tell me "disney is for kids" probably went to WDW... because.. that's what it is. It's a kid's dream come true.

                      I am a child at heart, but WDW was hitting a little too low most of the time.


                      It's happened at Disneyland too. I just have to see all the attractions targeting the youngest demographic and it's depressing because they also happen to be the least popular attractions.


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                      • #31
                        Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                        Well realize that the parks were designed for families (including young children and parents) to enjoy together--i.e., without the scary thrill rides. That being said, Disney must be very confused when they hear people complain about too thrilling rides (Tower of Terror, CA Screamin', Maliboomer, etc.) and rides too boring (Finding Nemo, Little Mermaid, etc.). Sooner or later we're gonna have to reach a middle ground. Or we can let Disney be Disney and continue to churn out the rides that we enjoy.

                        Okay rant over. Yay Disney!
                        "The views and opinions expressed on this post are mine and do not necessarily represent or reflect those of The Walt Disney Company."

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                        • #32
                          Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                          Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
                          Anyone who comes to WDW and spend 21 days there in a row is in really bad need of getting out to other vacation places more often. I live and breath Disney parks monthly.. have been visiting WDW monthly since 1981 when I moved to Orlando, have been visiting TDR monthly since may 1989, have been hundreds of times to DLP and DLR, and have been visiting HKDL on average 4-8 times a year since it opened. In fact, I have owned APs to ALL of the Disney Resorts on Earth at one time or another.... But 21 days in a row of Disney?? The thought of it makes me ill. As much as I love the Disney parks, and I do, regardless of how tough my criticism is about some of them.. I just could not be at any given Disney park more than 2-3 days at a time.
                          As for pictures.. I will see to it to bring you photographic proof of the maintenance problems I see at WDW, which are less prevalent at the other parks.

                          Not everyone can afford to go all year round on vacations all over the world. Who are you to say 21 days at WDW is not a suitable vacation? WDW is great escape from reality and TBH you can spread WDW out nicely in 21 days and still have stuff to do that you didn't do next vacation.

                          one hundred and one

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                          • #33
                            Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                            Originally posted by Imagineer Scott View Post
                            Not everyone can afford to go all year round on vacations all over the world. Who are you to say 21 days at WDW is not a suitable vacation? WDW is great escape from reality and TBH you can spread WDW out nicely in 21 days and still have stuff to do that you didn't do next vacation.
                            Who am I to say? TDLFAN of course.. did you not see my name in the post??:lol: But FYI.. I don't have the money either to go on vacations all over the world year round. In fact, I cheat. I go to Disney and the world because I travel for a living and get paid to do so.. and since I have seen a lot in this World of ours.. it makes me even more dumbfounded about people who much rather spend all their money stuck in the same place for 21 days, where there is so much more wonderful places to go in the World, and I am not talking Disney resorts.... But hey, to each his own.

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                            • #34
                              Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                              Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
                              Anyone who comes to WDW and spend 21 days there in a row is in really bad need of getting out to other vacation places more often. I live and breath Disney parks monthly.. have been visiting WDW monthly since 1981 when I moved to Orlando, have been visiting TDR monthly since may 1989, have been hundreds of times to DLP and DLR, and have been visiting HKDL on average 4-8 times a year since it opened. In fact, I have owned APs to ALL of the Disney Resorts on Earth at one time or another.... But 21 days in a row of Disney?? The thought of it makes me ill. As much as I love the Disney parks, and I do, regardless of how tough my criticism is about some of them.. I just could not be at any given Disney park more than 2-3 days at a time.
                              As for pictures.. I will see to it to bring you photographic proof of the maintenance problems I see at WDW, which are less prevalent at the other parks.
                              I agree 21 days straight in the parks would drive most people insane - I stay on the property for 21 days but I get around the entire Orlando area each time I'm in town. As everyone knows there are many alternative places to visit within a 30 mile radius of WDW itself - great shopping, lovely communities, sports venues and if you're lucky, friends close by .

                              Having said that, there are more than enough things to do within the entire WDW for 21 days if you choose to take advantage of them... I have only ever spent my entire stay on WDW property once. Most of my time was spent in the Fort Wilderness area, where other members of my family could fish and take part in all the outdoor activities, which are available. It's also kind of fun to visit the different resort hotels and spend time by the pools and taking advantage of their facilities too.

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                              • #35
                                Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                                When you pay about $65 for a single day in Tokyo and get ALL of the rides and regular live shows PLUS all of the special holiday entertainment.. from 9am till 10pm.. then you go to the MK and pay nearly $80 for a day at the park, plus being forced to dish out $59 plus tax if you want to see the Xmas party... Where is the value there????

                                So the different cultures and economic status' of the two countires these parks exisit in play no role in this matter? I'm not picking at you, I've never been to TDL so I don't know.

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                                • #36
                                  Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                                  Originally posted by Boxalarm View Post
                                  So the different cultures and economic status' of the two countires these parks exisit in play no role in this matter? I'm not picking at you, I've never been to TDL so I don't know.
                                  Don't take this personally but you said it yourself. You certainly do not know. Keep in mind that the cost of living in Japan is much much higher than the USA.. and Japan's economy has been going through some rough times and finally beginning to show some recovery.. and through all of that, the good folks of OLC did not hold back at TDR and gave us the huge 25th anniversary last year, a multi million dollar Monster ride, a brand new Halloween event (with shows, decor and constuming) at TDS, and now for Xmas, they are offering all new entertainment and decor at TDL, and a revised xmas lagoon show at TDS.
                                  In regards to the cost of living in Japan versus the USA... keep in mind, when you compare the prices to enter TDR and WDW based on a 1,2,3, and 4 day passport... You will see that TDR is much nicer bargain over WDW, in some cases as much as 35% less the price!! TDR offers discounted tickets after 6pm, and WDW does not. Both parks at TDR close at 10pm, whereas the WDW parks have irregular hours and shorter closing times for day guests some times of the year. TDR is a Better bargain in a country where the cost of living is much higher. Versus.. higher prices at WDW for those who visit up to 4 days, in a country where the cost of living is not as high. (Note: I can only compare in the range of 1-4 days because TDR does not sell passports of 5 days + like WDW does, but at WDW, once you buy a 5-day+++ passport then it becomes a nice deal.. because you are being rewarded for staying put on their property over a long period of days.)

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                                  • #37
                                    Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                                    Originally posted by Airamerica View Post
                                    I agree 21 days straight in the parks would drive most people insane - I stay on the property for 21 days but I get around the entire Orlando area each time I'm in town.
                                    I asusme you have your own car or rent when visiting. At least you are a savy traveler and know there are other worthy places to visit while here in Orlando.. but Disney's folks are despicable and that is why they offer the free Tragical Express bus from the airport, so people do not have the need to rent a car and go outside the WDW property. This whole thing reminds me of the Addams Family Values movie.. when they send Pugsley and Wednesday to camp? They are stuck there and finally snap buring down the place. Sooner or later, some poor guest, stuck inside WDW for 10-plus days with no way to get out, will snap and go berseck!

                                    BTW>>> NOTE! Airamerica, I was hoping to go to the MK and take some pictures for you but it's been raining here nonstop all day long, so I am skipping WDW today. Sadly, I am on my way to Japan this weekend, so I won't be able to take pictures for you until after december 5th.. sorry about that.

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                                    • #38
                                      Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                                      Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
                                      Who am I to say? TDLFAN of course.. did you not see my name in the post??:lol: But FYI.. I don't have the money either to go on vacations all over the world year round. In fact, I cheat. I go to Disney and the world because I travel for a living and get paid to do so.. and since I have seen a lot in this World of ours.. it makes me even more dumbfounded about people who much rather spend all their money stuck in the same place for 21 days, where there is so much more wonderful places to go in the World, and I am not talking Disney resorts.... But hey, to each his own.

                                      But not everyone travels for a living and a lot of families, even my own, find WDW to be a very nice vacation and a great escape from reality. Escape from reality isn't very common in TDR, DLR, and HKDL.... and isn't that the point of vacation? To get away from it all.

                                      Another driving force as to why families keep coming back and why WDW has the attendance it does.

                                      one hundred and one

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                                      • #39
                                        Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                                        Originally posted by lighttragic View Post
                                        How long have they used that finale float?
                                        Almost 30 years! No I'm not exaggerating. It was first used in the Tencennial (10th anniversary) parade back in 1981.

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                                        • #40
                                          Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                                          Originally posted by Imagineer Scott View Post
                                          But not everyone travels for a living and a lot of families, even my own, find WDW to be a very nice vacation and a great escape from reality.
                                          Forgive me but I am not arguing that issue. I agree and realize than many people find WDW "a very nice" vacation and escape from reality. The point that I'm arguing is that even WDW can be improved in many areas and should be, whether it is a "very nice" place to visit. Lucky for me, I find DLR and TDR to be "excellent" places to visit. My rant is that WDW can also be "excellent" but as you just said.. it is only a "very nice" place and you are correct about that.
                                          Escape from reality isn't very common in TDR, DLR, and HKDL.... and isn't that the point of vacation? To get away from it all.
                                          What do you mean "isn't very common"? Because frankly I feel much more removed from reality when I stroll around DL park, or stroll at TDS (especially!), and in HKDL, walking thru adventureland is like being in the middle of an asian jungle. These illusions are very convincing at those parks. At the MK? not so much for me. Heck, even taking the monorail or the ferry boay from the parking lot to the MK feels more like a chore than "leaving the real world behind" so to speak.

                                          Another driving force as to why families keep coming back and why WDW has the attendance it does.
                                          Oh gee.. and here I am thinking that the real driving force for people to visit was the free meal plan and the 7 nights for the price of 4 in any of their economy resorts.
                                          Face it.. the popularity of WDW is measured by accessibility. WDW, just being in "sunny" Florida, makes it the most desirable and accessible place to visit from So. America, Western Europe, and most of the eastern and mid west areas of the US and Canada. THAT is the real reason for WDW's popularity more than anything. The fact that the name "Disney" is attached to the place, helps their cause because most people are familiar with the brand... to some degree. "Disney" means "quality, and because I recognize that, and the company itself brags about it, I will hold them responsible when they fall short. Again for the upteenth time.. while WDW is still a "very nice" place to visit and many vacationers will eat it up no matter what, is management's gold mine. But WDW is still offering the least quality of all the Disney parks on Earth. Sure, they have the most things to do of any disney vacation resort, but what they are doing, can be much better, because I see that higher level of quality, not only in Tokyo, but also in Paris, Anaheim and even Hong Kong. It;s just tragic that many of you will not get the chance to see how good Disney can be first hand like I see them do it all of the time abroad.
                                          But please, don't take this on a personal level.. I know many of you are happy with your WDW experience... The reason why I rant is because I want the lurking management here on these boards to be awared that some of us are on to them and their lower standards.

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