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  • #61
    Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

    Originally posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    The next few years are a highly unusual time at DLR; they finally decided to make a big push to turn DCA into a world-class park. None of the WDW parks needed as much work as DCA, and you certainly can't pretend that the flurry of construction at DLR is a common event. Disneyland went forever and a day between new E-tickets, from Indy in 1995 to Nemo in 2007 (that's arguably an E-ticket).

    That said, we do have multiple projects coming, with two E-tickets, the FL expansion and the MI coaster after that. The FL expansion is an impressive looking project, and the only DLR E-ticket not coming to the east coast is RSR. Plus, by the middle of the next decade, the MI coaster could be a Florida exclusive. We already got TSMM, the first ride in DCA's phase one.

    Would I like to see more projects, sooner? Of course, especially in AK. The WDC could certainly plunk over a billion dollars of reinvestment into WDW, as they're doing with DCA. But it's still an exciting time to be a Disney fan, no matter which resort you intend to visit (I'll be going to both, assuming the crowding eases up at DLR).

    Incidentally, I never heard anyone else suggest that CarsLand will have more than one new E-ticket. To the best of my knowledge, Flying Tires and Junkyard Jamboree are likely to be D tickets.


    I classified Flying Tires as an E-ticket only because the original Flying Saucers was an E-status. But you're probably right that it's more like a D. Junkyard Jamboree I would probably dub a C-Ticket.

    Yes, Disneyland hasn't gotten that many great new things since Indiana Jones in 1995 as it was a real rough decade until 2005, but also due to DCA's failure of an opening right next door in 2001.

    Rocket Rods was supposed to be the E-Ticket of 1998 but that got shut down real fast. Tarzan's Treehouse, updated Autopia, Winnie the Pooh, Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters, Pirate's Lair on Tom Sawyer Island, Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage, new Monorails were next, so it's not like NOTHING happened in Disneyland after Indy.



    What has Magic Kingdom received since 1995?

    1995 - Alien Encounter replaces Mission to Mars

    ???? - Pooh's Playful Spot replaces 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea

    1998 - The Enchanted Tiki Room Under New Management
    - Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin replaces Dream Flight

    1999 - Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh replaces Mr. Toad

    2001 - Magic Carpets of Aladdin

    2003 - Mickey's Philharmagic replaces Legend of the Lion King

    2004 - Stitch's Great Escape replaces Alien Encounter

    2007 - Monsters Inc Laugh Floor replaces Time Keeper




    Seems like a pretty busy decade for Magic Kingdom as well... but with the exception of buzz, Pooh, and Philharmagic, they're all major stinkers in my opinion.

    I think Disney Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom need the most fleshing out actually. Magic Kingdom just needs to clean out the bad that has been added recently.


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    • #62
      Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

      Originally posted by Dustysage View Post
      Just try to enjoy Halloween at the Magic Kingdom - there is no Halloween unless you buy a special event ticket. Come on! Why not just fold Halloween into the regular park and let EVERYONE enjoy it? Isn't that a magical reason to visit in the off season? Same with Christmas.
      That's one of the things that really bugs me. We went down in 2004 and wanted to do the Halloween thing, until I found out how much it cost.

      There were 6 of us - there was no way I was paying that huge amount of money for a couple of hours of Halloween fun.

      My Kids were really disappointed.

      Jim

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

        I think we're all missing the point - WDW is a business, in the same way that TV companies are businesses and the cost of advertising during the Super Bowl rises.

        There is so much romance and 'good will' surrounding the Disney brand, together with everything that Walt stood for that the corporate / true reality is getting blurred here!

        Like it, or not Disney exists to return profits to shareholders and other investors. A by-product of this is WDW and the other parks... Take the romance away from our thinking and WDW does a very good job, it entertains and it inspires. You HAVE to pay a premium for that. And you have to pay more when certain events occur throughout the year, Christmas, Halloween etc.

        It's also a fact that attendance's aren't falling and people are making return trips year-on-year, so where is the problem. These people, myself included have many other options and theme parks to attend, if the quality at Disney is sub-standard.

        So, again I'm going to ask the question:

        Please single out specific quality issues with WDW that dodn't include cost / value?

        It's a shame but if you decide you don't want to pay what Disney is charging, that is your issue and not theirs. Clearly millions of other people don't have this problem and that's the way it is. We can't blame management for this, in the spirit of Disneym this doesn't seem fair to me.

        I should say that I think that WDW is world is expensive in isolation but when I consider the 37 (or 47 depending who you talk to) square miles of fun I get for the cost of a ticket, it's not that bad!

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        • #64
          Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

          ^ Specific?

          Act 4 of CoP. There's no denying this one. Not only is it outdated, but the fur on rover, the skins and clothing on the AAs and the audio are all worse than the other 3 acts. Possibly because Disney can't make up their minds about what to do with it, but any ride about the future that mentions car phones is an embarrassment. Also, only 1 out of the 6 theaters had their seats and carpeting replaced.

          Effects missing/broken for inexcusable amounts of time. The Small World doll missing for 3 months was already brought up but what about the hats on the pirate with one leg on the dock and the other on the boat? They have been missing for years. Yes people, years at this point. The Yeti at AK and the other few effects that actually exist on EE have developed their own reputation.

          The MK afternoon parade which has been the same since 2001, still uses floats from the 80s, has made cuts to the number of people and floats which actually run and apparently some of the float effects have been broken for some time now. It's a sad, sad excuse for a show compared to what used to go down Main Street.

          SEE's ending. Whether or not that's Disney's fault or it's sponsor it's still not done.

          Christmas offerings begin cut. Country Bear Christmas, the Diamond Horseshoe show, The Contemporary resorts Christmas show, the decorations on the Swiss Family Treehouse, Lights of Winter etc.

          Halloween offerings begin cut like the storytelling on the riverboat.

          The unfinished half of Pop Century which just sits there decaying like River Country.

          DTD becoming a generic shopping mall with 3rd party retailers taking up space of offerings that were far more unique.

          Generic shopping everywhere to the point where Disney fans have to beg to get a T-shirt with a major attraction featured on it.

          Entertainment cuts without replacements. Diamond Horseshoe Saloon Revue, Pocahontas at AK etc.

          Big empty buildings offering nothing to guests most if not all the time like Wonder's of Life, The Odyssey, The Adventureland Veranda.

          Attractions that really need refurbs like The Great Movie Ride, Universe of Energy, Journey Into Imagination (again).

          Anything to do with Stitch that has been poorly received by just about everyone.

          And how can you ignore costs/value when discussing WDW?
          I like The Happiest Millionaire. What's wrong with that?

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

            Originally posted by Angie_Duke View Post
            ^ Specific?

            Act 4 of CoP. There's no denying this one. Not only is it outdated, but the fur on rover, the skins and clothing on the AAs and the audio are all worse than the other 3 acts. Possibly because Disney can't make up their minds about what to do with it, but any ride about the future that mentions car phones is an embarrassment. Also, only 1 out of the 6 theaters had their seats and carpeting replaced.

            Effects missing/broken for inexcusable amounts of time. The Small World doll missing for 3 months was already brought up but what about the hats on the pirate with one leg on the dock and the other on the boat? They have been missing for years. Yes people, years at this point. The Yeti at AK and the other few effects that actually exist on EE have developed their own reputation.

            The MK afternoon parade which has been the same since 2001, still uses floats from the 80s, has made cuts to the number of people and floats which actually run and apparently some of the float effects have been broken for some time now. It's a sad, sad excuse for a show compared to what used to go down Main Street.

            SEE's ending. Whether or not that's Disney's fault or it's sponsor it's still not done.

            Christmas offerings begin cut. Country Bear Christmas, the Diamond Horseshoe show, The Contemporary resorts Christmas show, the decorations on the Swiss Family Treehouse, Lights of Winter etc.

            Halloween offerings begin cut like the storytelling on the riverboat.

            The unfinished half of Pop Century which just sits there decaying like River Country.

            DTD becoming a generic shopping mall with 3rd party retailers taking up space of offerings that were far more unique.

            Generic shopping everywhere to the point where Disney fans have to beg to get a T-shirt with a major attraction featured on it.

            Entertainment cuts without replacements. Diamond Horseshoe Saloon Revue, Pocahontas at AK etc.

            Big empty buildings offering nothing to guests most if not all the time like Wonder's of Life, The Odyssey, The Adventureland Veranda.

            Attractions that really need refurbs like The Great Movie Ride, Universe of Energy, Journey Into Imagination (again).

            Anything to do with Stitch that has been poorly received by just about everyone.

            And how can you ignore costs/value when discussing WDW?
            Thanks, that's more like it!

            However, personally I think these things aren't that significant and certainly don't stop me from enjoying WDW. None of them would convince me not to go!

            CoP is outdated, clearly. I ride it to have a sit down and relax but I've never noticed the fur and skin in act 3 and the car phone quote is nostalgic - it's almost a cute retrospective and I've not met anyone who has been in CoP recently and left complaining about its condition!

            With regard to It's A Small World, the last time I went through I took a second ride immediately to video the ride - I was astounded at how many of the anamatronics etc. were working, I'd have said 99%, by far the most I've witnessed in 20 years!

            I assumed that the hats were meant to be removed from the characters in Pirates, this way you get to see their faces far better and who's to say this isn't the plan - again, this isn't a show-stopper! Ask most of the guests on this attraction if they noticed anything missing and I'd say none would point to missing hats...

            However, I'd have to agree that EE is poor. Having said that, I rode this at the end of last month with my cousin and his 11 yo daughter - both first-timers. They thought the entire thing was amazing and were surprised when I told them that it wasn't 'really' a complete experiences because the yeti was in B mode... So, it's not a show stopper either.

            I find the parade boring and haven't stood and watched it since 1995, so i can't comment.

            The ending to SSE is exactly what was intended - you interact with the monitor and reveal your future... Why would you dilute this interactivity (noting the Horizons tribute) as you descend. Putting any visuals in the part of the ride would totally destroy the entire point of the screens being added. Take the sponsor away and change the ending!!!

            I could go on and answer all the point but it's astoundingly clear that these issues are of little significance to the park. In fact, they only really (or not) bug us - the guys on the forums talking about things that we know aren't as they were in the past. Newbies (like my cousin) don't see the problems.

            I could accept people moaning if the sidewalks were crumbling, the rides were clearly unsafe and the paint pealing off the walls but the things mentioned don't present a threat to WDW operations.

            BTW, as I've said before, I'm not part of the management team!!!!

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

              And another thing...

              All to often the "shareholders" argument is brought up in defense of Disney's cost cutting/price raising tactics.

              Here's the thing. A shareholder is likely only relying on a set of financial statements to gauge spending vs. revenue to see what profits have been made since the last accounting period. A shareholder is not likely to care about how spending was decreased and revenue was increased in order to maintain an expected profit margin. If Lights of Winter is scrapped for example, what shareholder will know about it? It certainly won't be mentioned in the accompanying press release.

              Something that everyone should consider is that without it's guests there is no revenue for Disney. The customer is what drives the business as there is only so much investor's can do. Therefore, what sense does it make to alienate return revenue from locals, APers, DVC owners by offering less and charging more for seasonal events? This is a core return market that Disney is clearly trying to increase through DVC selling and the new weekly pass for FL residents for example, but what are they doing in the long run to keep them?

              It all goes back to short term thinking. A cut here and a raise there is a fast way to make the next fiscal quarter look better, but what does that do in the long run for guests, employees or even the shareholders (who made note for example that guest spending has gone down) who are all effected one way or another by these decisions? The answer even from a shareholders perspective is not good in the long run. And lets face it, Disney will exist in the long run.

              The economy may be bad now but what about cuts made earlier this decade including ones made after the far worse post 9/11 tourism decline that never returned when business and revenue did?

              WDW needs more than just a Fantasyland expansion and Star Tours 2.

              Edit: As for "newbies", isn't WDW trying to turn them into repeat visitors by pushing DVC? And why are their nonexistent (because they haven't been) expectations more important that the returning guests?

              BTW that "toppling hats" effect lasted for 30+ years at WDW and exists at other Disney parks, but it's cute how you can defend not having it at all now. SEE's ending is not done, that's why all that chicken wire, curtains, and triangles exist. Again that's Disney's decision to work on it, but not follow through with it. Your opinion of the visuals "destroying it" is irrelevant to the construction work attempted because you still have not seen the finished product. Small World is in good shape, but why should a doll be mission for 3 months?
              Last edited by Angie_Duke; 12-02-2009, 07:03 AM.
              I like The Happiest Millionaire. What's wrong with that?

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                Originally posted by Airamerica View Post
                I think we're all missing the point - WDW is a business, in the same way that TV companies are businesses and the cost of advertising during the Super Bowl rises.

                There is so much romance and 'good will' surrounding the Disney brand, together with everything that Walt stood for that the corporate / true reality is getting blurred here!

                Like it, or not Disney exists to return profits to shareholders and other investors. A by-product of this is WDW and the other parks... Take the romance away from our thinking and WDW does a very good job, it entertains and it inspires. You HAVE to pay a premium for that. And you have to pay more when certain events occur throughout the year, Christmas, Halloween etc.

                It's also a fact that attendance's aren't falling and people are making return trips year-on-year, so where is the problem. These people, myself included have many other options and theme parks to attend, if the quality at Disney is sub-standard.

                So, again I'm going to ask the question:

                Please single out specific quality issues with WDW that dodn't include cost / value?

                It's a shame but if you decide you don't want to pay what Disney is charging, that is your issue and not theirs. Clearly millions of other people don't have this problem and that's the way it is. We can't blame management for this, in the spirit of Disneym this doesn't seem fair to me.

                I should say that I think that WDW is world is expensive in isolation but when I consider the 37 (or 47 depending who you talk to) square miles of fun I get for the cost of a ticket, it's not that bad!

                You want specifics? I too will offer specifics. Two days ago I went to MK. I rode PotC. The pirate who is holding the key and looking at the map appeared to have a broken neck (his head was hanging down and not really moving, only rolling left and right a little). The pirate sitting on the bridge with his dirty foot hanging down also had a "broken neck", with his head bouncing all over and mostly falling backward. Also, I could see where the "skin" stopped and could see up between the "skin" and the clothing. Riders should not be able to see that. I proceeded to inform the ride attendant who reported the issues and offered to get the Operations Manager. I said it was ok, and wandered off to enjoy the rest of the park.

                I returned the next day to check and see if my complaints had been addressed. The first pirate had been fixed, but the second one remained broken, and no when Captain Jack pops out of the barrel behind the pirate with the key and map you can see the metal of the AA at the peak of his rise from the barrel. I informed the ride operator and noted that I pointed the one issue out the day before. He thanked me and informed me that they took the ride down for 35 minutes the day before for engineers to go fix things. I guess they only did some of the fixes.

                Going back to the first day of my visit, I rode SM and when I was finished I hopped on TTA. In the short walk to TTA SM went down... same old SM. Anyway, that isn't my point, just a side note. My point about space is that in the queue, on the left wall by after descending the stairs you will likely notice a decent sized paint flake missing. Wasn't this ride just refurbed and the queue redone? This is out of the way of guests, so I don't want to hear that guests did this, as I highly doubt that they did this one.

                Now, as for CoP, the curtains on the left hand side of the first two families are not attached to the screens, and if you are sitting in the back left of the theatre, you can see into the actual area where the AAs are. It looks sloppy and needs to be fixed. I noticed this on my second day, and reported it to the ride operator. I'm not sure if anything was done, but I'll find out next time I go back, which will likely be next week, if not the week after.

                If you would like more specifics, I'll keep my eyes peeled.

                Oh, and by the way, the Monorails need something to be done, as they all smell pretty bad, and I'm not the only one who has noticed it.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                  Originally posted by Figment Fan View Post
                  You want specifics? I too will offer specifics. Two days ago I went to MK. I rode PotC. The pirate who is holding the key and looking at the map appeared to have a broken neck (his head was hanging down and not really moving, only rolling left and right a little). The pirate sitting on the bridge with his dirty foot hanging down also had a "broken neck", with his head bouncing all over and mostly falling backward. Also, I could see where the "skin" stopped and could see up between the "skin" and the clothing. Riders should not be able to see that. I proceeded to inform the ride attendant who reported the issues and offered to get the Operations Manager. I said it was ok, and wandered off to enjoy the rest of the park.

                  I returned the next day to check and see if my complaints had been addressed. The first pirate had been fixed, but the second one remained broken, and no when Captain Jack pops out of the barrel behind the pirate with the key and map you can see the metal of the AA at the peak of his rise from the barrel. I informed the ride operator and noted that I pointed the one issue out the day before. He thanked me and informed me that they took the ride down for 35 minutes the day before for engineers to go fix things. I guess they only did some of the fixes.

                  Going back to the first day of my visit, I rode SM and when I was finished I hopped on TTA. In the short walk to TTA SM went down... same old SM. Anyway, that isn't my point, just a side note. My point about space is that in the queue, on the left wall by after descending the stairs you will likely notice a decent sized paint flake missing. Wasn't this ride just refurbed and the queue redone? This is out of the way of guests, so I don't want to hear that guests did this, as I highly doubt that they did this one.

                  Now, as for CoP, the curtains on the left hand side of the first two families are not attached to the screens, and if you are sitting in the back left of the theatre, you can see into the actual area where the AAs are. It looks sloppy and needs to be fixed. I noticed this on my second day, and reported it to the ride operator. I'm not sure if anything was done, but I'll find out next time I go back, which will likely be next week, if not the week after.

                  If you would like more specifics, I'll keep my eyes peeled.

                  Oh, and by the way, the Monorails need something to be done, as they all smell pretty bad, and I'm not the only one who has noticed it.
                  So, anamatronics that repeat the same movement 1000's of times a day break... I'd be more shocked if they didn't!

                  Ask yourself this question: How many other people noticed, and how many other people said something?

                  Could the fact the you have been on this ride so many times and are 'looking' for faults meant that the broken necks stood out - to you!!!

                  You can find faults in everything if you go looking for them, simply step back and put yourself in the shoes in of a new guest or a return guest on their second or third trip - will they notice the little imperfections.??? I know from my experience the other week they don't. So why does it need to be fixed, it's mostly not broken!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                    Ok, you did not really just say that, did you? Oh wait, yes you did. You think that it is fine for them to leave broken AAs because "it's mostly not broken".

                    That is the type of thinking that goes against the whole Disney rhetoric about keeping the illusion alive.

                    I am not looking for faults, but I certainly do notice them. Do you mean to tell me that if I see something broken I should just leave it because all of the new guests won't really notice anyway?

                    Also, I am not faulting them for AAs breaking, it happens. But they only fixed one. You wanted to know specifics, and we have pointed numerous ones out to you and yet you insist on playing them off as nothing, when many of them are things that should be dealt with.

                    Attitudes like "why does it need to be fixed, it's mostly not broken!" are one major problem with the way the parks are being run now. If your car's axle is cracked, but not broken, do you just leave it because "it's mostly not broken?" No, you fix it. What about if one of the heads on those pirates was left to continue breaking, and fell off (yikes!), or even worse, the one on the bridge falls of and hits a guest? It would be ok because up until then it was "mostly not broken, [so] why does it need to be fixed".

                    Faulty logic if you ask me. So basically, you didn't really want proof, as you have been given specifics and just played them off.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                      Originally posted by Airamerica View Post
                      It's a shame but if you decide you don't want to pay what Disney is charging, that is your issue and not theirs. Clearly millions of other people don't have this problem and that's the way it is. We can't blame management for this, in the spirit of Disneym this doesn't seem fair to me.

                      I should say that I think that WDW is world is expensive in isolation but when I consider the 37 (or 47 depending who you talk to) square miles of fun I get for the cost of a ticket, it's not that bad!


                      I think you're missing the bigger picture. Millions don't have a problem, but you don't know how many potential millions of people DO have a problem. WDW is becoming a "let's go once and never again" type of places for most families, couples, singles. That's revenue that should also be catered to.



                      Originally posted by Airamerica View Post
                      I could accept people moaning if the sidewalks were crumbling, the rides were clearly unsafe and the paint pealing off the walls but the things mentioned don't present a threat to WDW operations.
                      I think there have been quite a lot of deaths at WDW lately. More than necessary. Whether that's an attribute of Florida execs not caring, I don't dare comment. Just throwing it out there though.


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                      • #71
                        Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                        Originally posted by Coheteboy View Post
                        I think you're missing the bigger picture. Millions don't have a problem, but you don't know how many potential millions of people DO have a problem. WDW is becoming a "let's go once and never again" type of places for most families, couples, singles. That's revenue that should also be catered to.





                        I think there have been quite a lot of deaths at WDW lately. More than necessary. Whether that's an attribute of Florida execs not caring, I don't dare comment. Just throwing it out there though.
                        How do we know that people are going once and never again? This year, overseas visitor numbers have been down in Florida. However, the number of people visiting WDW has been tracking on a steady upward curve - possibly stimulated by free dining etc. This seems to suggest repeat visits. In addition DVC sales are doing well and it's often commented that this drives return visits on it's own.

                        As for the deaths, I think some of these are still under investigation. So, I think we should all respectfully leave the topic alone for now.

                        Comment


                        • #72

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                            Well said. I've gone to Magic Kingdom maybe a total of 5 times in my life and I have honestly never seen the horse drawn carriage operating a single time. The street felt desolate, lacking life. That one simple thing really makes a difference.


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                            • #74
                              Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                              Lightning509s, that's an impressive list and much respect to you for putting that together - amazing!

                              I can certainly understand your frustration and I can see how upkeep around the resort has changed over the years but I have to continue to defend Disney's actions with regard to how they run the parks.

                              Many people keep referring to 'the way things were' and suggesting that during in the 80's the upkeep of the parks was far more satisfying than today. Clearly, the methods employed to service WDW have changed and they had to. Whilst the charges to enter WDW have risen, so have the costs associated with maintaining them. If you look at the annual reports, it suggests that the cost of maintenance has raced ahead. In fact, these figures clearly display that despite steadily increasing entry fees this income hasn't covered the jump in support costs.

                              As such, it seems quite logical that Disney management adjust their 'dilapidation schedule' and look to maximise alternate income streams. This would account for expanding retail space, closing peripheral attractions and reducing staff numbers in non-essetial areas (stunt shows). This underlines and explains your points, A - I.

                              Points J - M underline and investment strategy to maximise the funds available. Tomorrowland does require constant attention and the late 90's update attempted to shift the emphasis away from looking forward to the future, to a retro perspective - like it or not, this area has received a constant program of new attractions and updates. So has Adventureland.

                              The new monorails were a vast improvement of the older ones and despite loosing seating space, they make so much more sense. They move more people, more frequently and with less downtime. Entering or leaving the park, with thousands of people trying to get to their destination, I can't think any of them are concerned about intimacy!

                              The raceway... Where else could it have gone?

                              The arguments can rage but you must be realistic this is 2009 - the world is a much more expensive place!

                              And finally, (for now) River County is returning to nature - it was a horrible place not worth of the Disney name, especially since the newer water parks and should remain a distant memory. It didn't make economic sense!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                                Originally posted by Airamerica View Post
                                Lightning509s, that's an impressive list and much respect to you for putting that together - amazing!

                                I can certainly understand your frustration and I can see how upkeep around the resort has changed over the years but I have to continue to defend Disney's actions with regard to how they run the parks.

                                Many people keep referring to 'the way things were' and suggesting that during in the 80's the upkeep of the parks was far more satisfying than today. Clearly, the methods employed to service WDW have changed and they had to. Whilst the charges to enter WDW have risen, so have the costs associated with maintaining them. If you look at the annual reports, it suggests that the cost of maintenance has raced ahead. In fact, these figures clearly display that despite steadily increasing entry fees this income hasn't covered the jump in support costs.

                                As such, it seems quite logical that Disney management adjust their 'dilapidation schedule' and look to maximise alternate income streams. This would account for expanding retail space, closing peripheral attractions and reducing staff numbers in non-essetial areas (stunt shows). This underlines and explains your points, A - I.

                                Points J - M underline and investment strategy to maximise the funds available. Tomorrowland does require constant attention and the late 90's update attempted to shift the emphasis away from looking forward to the future, to a retro perspective - like it or not, this area has received a constant program of new attractions and updates. So has Adventureland.

                                The new monorails were a vast improvement of the older ones and despite loosing seating space, they make so much more sense. They move more people, more frequently and with less downtime. Entering or leaving the park, with thousands of people trying to get to their destination, I can't think any of them are concerned about intimacy!

                                The raceway... Where else could it have gone?

                                The arguments can rage but you must be realistic this is 2009 - the world is a much more expensive place!

                                And finally, (for now) River County is returning to nature - it was a horrible place not worth of the Disney name, especially since the newer water parks and should remain a distant memory. It didn't make economic sense!
                                Airamerica, What position do you hold with the Disney company as you seem to have quite an insiders "bean pushing/defensive" point of view rationalizing, nye justifying Disneys behavioral attitude to quantity over quality to save a buck.

                                Walt Disney spent his whole life developing an image for his name that assosiated Disney with Quality. Let's take a step back with your "money over quality" view.

                                When Walt decided he wanted to add sound to his animated shorts, "money" people at that time told him he was crazy. They rationalized he could never make any money due too the costs associated with adding sound. He did it anyway and behold an entertainment empire was started.
                                When Walt decided he wanted color added to his short animated features, again, money folk as yourself, told him he was crazy. How could he ever make money when adding color was so expensive? Well, you guessed it, the Disney entertainment juggernaut continued to gain momentum.
                                When Walt decided to create an entire animated feature (Snow White) with an initial base cost estimate of $250K (which was quite a lot of money for it's time), again all the money people called him crazy and nicknamed his project as Disneys folly. This project, they summized, would surely bankrupt him. How would he ever be able to make money when movie tickets at the time averaged between ten and twentyfive cents? He even had to mortgage his house to help finance the film's production, which eventually ran up a total cost of $1,488,422.74, a massive sum for a feature film in 1937. And yet, the movie grossed over $8million dollars in it's first release.
                                I could continue, but I believe my point has been made. Walt was always pushing the limits and boundries of technologies with very little respect to the costs associated with such projects. He knew that quality would always win out over quantity. A proud fact that lauched a world wide entertainment empire.
                                Had Walt taken your "money over quality" attitude, we would never have been able to enjoy all the great wondrous things that he, through his foresight, motivation and determination, has brought to us over the past 75 years.

                                It truely is a shame that "money people" (like yourself), are systematically destroying an image that Walt Disney spent a lifetime creating.
                                Last edited by Lightning509s; 12-03-2009, 02:16 AM. Reason: spelling correction

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                                  Originally posted by Lightning509s View Post
                                  Airamerica, What position do you hold with the Disney company as you seem to have quite an insiders "bean pushing/defensive" point of view rationalizing, nye justifying Disneys behavioral attitude to quantity over quality to save a buck.

                                  Walt Disney spent his whole life developing an image for his name that assosiated Disney with Quality. Let's take a step back with your "money over quality" view.

                                  When Walt decided he wanted to add sound to his animated shorts, "money" people at that time told him he was crazy. They rationalized he could never make any money due too the costs associated with adding sound. He did it anyway and behold an entertainment empire was started.
                                  When Walt decided he wanted color added to his short animated features, again, money folk as yourself, told him he was crazy. How could he ever make money when adding color was so expensive? Well, you guessed it, the Disney entertainment juggernaut continued to gain momentum.
                                  When Walt decided to create an entire animated feature (Snow White) with an initial base cost estimate of $250K (which was quite a lot of money for it's time), again all the money people called him crazy and nicknamed his project as Disneys folly. This project, they summized, would surely bankrupt him. How would he ever be able to make money when movie tickets at the time averaged between ten and twentyfive cents? He even had to mortgage his house to help finance the film's production, which eventually ran up a total cost of $1,488,422.74, a massive sum for a feature film in 1937. And yet, the movie grossed over $8million dollars in it's first release.
                                  I could continue, but I believe my point has been made. Walt was always pushing the limits and boundries of technologies with very little respect to the costs associated with such projects. He knew that quality would always win out over quantity. A proud fact that lauched a world wide entertainment empire.
                                  Had Walt taken your "money over quality" attitude, we would never have been able to enjoy all the great wondrous things that he, through his foresight, motivation and determination, has brought to us over the past 75 years.

                                  It truely is a shame that "money people" (like yourself), are systematically destroying an image that Walt Disney spent a lifetime creating.
                                  Lightning509s, I'm all for the entrepreneurial spirit that Walt injected into his work - he was visionary and a risk taker... Initially, as you pointed out, he took huge risks with his own money. Clearly, the production of his films would never of happened without the courage to pump his own money into these projects.

                                  However, as his empire grew he won round the banks and relied on them to fund his theme park dreams - they invested in 'him'... In turn he created (with the assistance of his team) the blueprint for successful parks. The banks and shareholders had to have faith in him because he was blazing the trail. You quite rightly pointed out that he had proven himself to be quite the visionary - the banks were along for the ride!

                                  Today, Walt's not around (obviously) to steer and manage his empire. Clearly, if he was still alive there might be many differences throughout all of the parks. In the same way that Apple is a company dominated by Steve Jobs. Likewise, the question is often asked what would happen to Apple if Jobs leaves, for whatever reason!

                                  Like it or not, WDW is run on a tight budget. It equates to a small efficient city, which includes a transport system - all of which have grown massively since the late 70's, early 80's... Costs, not least fuel have sky rocketed and so has the base rate of labor to staff the parks... A wider, more long-term view on spending within the WDW property has to be taken - the purse to maintain the property isn't a bottomless pit. Rightly or wrongly, the books have / must be balanced.

                                  As such, the cash reserves must go further and must be audited by the accountants and justified to the shareholders. An example of this would be to shut a ride down every second day to fix broken anamatronics, rather than every day, or every hour. The standard of the parks doesn't fall because a repair is delayed for 24hrs. In fact, this scheduling probably means that a repair in another attraction is taken car of...

                                  The reality is that each attraction, each resort area, each transport facility has a 'value' and a life-span duration. It's allocated funds over this period to maintain it's upkeep and ultimately replace or plus it... True enough if Walt was still alive this might be more frequent, or more significant - who could argue with his pedigree???

                                  The moment I walk into WDW and see the venues empty and weeds growing through the cracks in the pavement, I'll begin to wonder what is going on - I'll also ask where is my dividend payment! Until then, I'll keep in mind that the MK is nearing 40 years old and is open everyday of the year - come to think of it I can only think of 1 or 2 days when it's been closed. So keeping this in mind I'm going to cut it some slack for 'cosmetic blemishes', especially the occasional ones.

                                  However, I'll ask more questions the moment I stop seeing children smile, point and stare at the wonders contained within the parks. This isn't the case and I think Disney the people on the ground are doing a stunning job.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                                    Originally posted by Airamerica View Post
                                    However, I'll ask more questions the moment I stop seeing children smile, point and stare at the wonders contained within the parks. This isn't the case and I think Disney the people on the ground are doing a stunning job.
                                    ^ You criticize us for romancing the parks? Yikes.

                                    Tell this to the 100s of people who are upset over the removal of Lights of Winter, or those who queued up at Guests Relations to complain about the Fantasmic! Cuts that have effectively reduced guest spending in the park.

                                    Have you seen the reviews for Stitch's Great Escape, or Stitch's Supersonic Celebration (the shortest lived anything in WDW)?

                                    Do you even have access to guest satisfaction surveys to support your claim? No is in all probability the answer.

                                    Yes YOU think they're great, but guess what, not everyone does. Problem is more and more people are taking note of the issues, including top brass who supposedly forced the Fantasyland expansion on a management team reluctant to do it.
                                    I like The Happiest Millionaire. What's wrong with that?

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                                      Originally posted by Angie_Duke View Post
                                      ^ You criticize us for romancing the parks? Yikes.

                                      Tell this to the 100s of people who are upset over the removal of Lights of Winter, or those who queued up at Guests Relations to complain about the Fantasmic! Cuts that have effectively reduced guest spending in the park.

                                      Have you seen the reviews for Stitch's Great Escape, or Stitch's Supersonic Celebration (the shortest lived anything in WDW)?

                                      Do you even have access to guest satisfaction surveys to support your claim? No is in all probability the answer.

                                      Yes YOU think they're great, but guess what, not everyone does. Problem is more and more people are taking note of the issues, including top brass who supposedly forced the Fantasyland expansion on a management team reluctant to do it.
                                      Is the removal of the Lights of Winter going to have any material effect on WDW guests... No, people who have seen them before, have seen them before and the guests that haven't seen them won't miss them.

                                      I can see an argument for taking something away like SSE, for example. It dominates the park and if it wasn't there anymore we could all raise hell - not installing a minor seasonal addition doesn't warrant headlines!

                                      Fantastic was similar to Lights, Camera, Action! It wasn't full for every single show and reducing it's operational frequency make sense - you will always receive some complaints, as a small minority are inconvenienced by missing the show when they are in the park... Again, good management by Disney.

                                      As for Stitch's Great Escape, be careful what you wish for... The 2 previous shows in this building were far more controversial and split opinion much more than this attraction - Disney bowed to guest pressure to make a change, this is the result. A child friendly, child orientated use of very good theatres that didn't need to be changed!!!!

                                      Stitch's Supersonic Celebration - BTW, I never saw the the show. So, I can't comment. It was clearly bad. However, this doesn't reflect on budgets or the management team, more the creative directors on site and their ability to come up with a decent show. The management did build a purpose built stage for this and find the talent to perform (however badly), so the money was there!

                                      The reluctance to upgrade Fantasyland came from specific concerns about the disruption it would cause, not a cost related perspective. WDW management made the case that park attendance was holding steady and that a major redevelopment might affect this. Granted this is / was a vanity argument but the decision was taken at HQ and WDW management had to yield to the paymasters! It's pretty clear that the investors wanted things to remain constant. However, flying in the face of this 2-part reluctance to develop the park, the 'top brass' took a Walt-like decision. Good for them!

                                      People can keep making the argument that there are problems but the evidence, when considered 'globally' across the entire WDW estate just doesn't add up. Sorry!

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                                        Originally posted by Airamerica View Post
                                        Lightning509s, I'm all for the entrepreneurial spirit that Walt injected into his work - he was visionary and a risk taker... Initially, as you pointed out, he took huge risks with his own money. Clearly, the production of his films would never of happened without the courage to pump his own money into these projects.

                                        However, as his empire grew he won round the banks and relied on them to fund his theme park dreams - they invested in 'him'... In turn he created (with the assistance of his team) the blueprint for successful parks. The banks and shareholders had to have faith in him because he was blazing the trail. You quite rightly pointed out that he had proven himself to be quite the visionary - the banks were along for the ride!

                                        Today, Walt's not around (obviously) to steer and manage his empire. Clearly, if he was still alive there might be many differences throughout all of the parks. In the same way that Apple is a company dominated by Steve Jobs. Likewise, the question is often asked what would happen to Apple if Jobs leaves, for whatever reason!

                                        Like it or not, WDW is run on a tight budget. It equates to a small efficient city, which includes a transport system - all of which have grown massively since the late 70's, early 80's... Costs, not least fuel have sky rocketed and so has the base rate of labor to staff the parks... A wider, more long-term view on spending within the WDW property has to be taken - the purse to maintain the property isn't a bottomless pit. Rightly or wrongly, the books have / must be balanced.

                                        As such, the cash reserves must go further and must be audited by the accountants and justified to the shareholders. An example of this would be to shut a ride down every second day to fix broken anamatronics, rather than every day, or every hour. The standard of the parks doesn't fall because a repair is delayed for 24hrs. In fact, this scheduling probably means that a repair in another attraction is taken car of...

                                        The reality is that each attraction, each resort area, each transport facility has a 'value' and a life-span duration. It's allocated funds over this period to maintain it's upkeep and ultimately replace or plus it... True enough if Walt was still alive this might be more frequent, or more significant - who could argue with his pedigree???

                                        The moment I walk into WDW and see the venues empty and weeds growing through the cracks in the pavement, I'll begin to wonder what is going on - I'll also ask where is my dividend payment! Until then, I'll keep in mind that the MK is nearing 40 years old and is open everyday of the year - come to think of it I can only think of 1 or 2 days when it's been closed. So keeping this in mind I'm going to cut it some slack for 'cosmetic blemishes', especially the occasional ones.

                                        However, I'll ask more questions the moment I stop seeing children smile, point and stare at the wonders contained within the parks. This isn't the case and I think Disney the people on the ground are doing a stunning job.
                                        Welcome to Micechat Airamerica (AKA Tom Staggs...)

                                        I am fully aware of the business aspects pertaining to the operations of a massive property as WDW. I also understand that it's business mentality like yours that has destroyed the American culture over the past 50 years. America, as a nation, was once the shining beacon to the world for industrial and financial revelations that left the rest of the world in awe of our might.

                                        Today, however, countries such as China, Japan, the entire EU and countries from the Middle East have much more robust and dynamic economies and will soon (if not already) take the place of the US as industrial and financial giants.

                                        A Wall Street Journal article in the mid 90's addressed an interesting fact. At the time, they did a comparison of the highest paid CEO's around the globe. At that time, the highest paid CEO in Japan was in charge of Human Resources. The Highest paid CEO in Europe was a German individual in charge of research and development and the highest paid CEO here in the US was in charge of finances.

                                        That tells me that Japan was, and still is, most interested in the well being and advancement of their employees. Germany is most interested in advanced technologies and the US is most interested in "Money."

                                        This is why, over the past 50 years, we have regressed as a nation from being the worlds leading industrial powerhouse to a nation who's economy is reliant on consumer spending. 70% consumer spending to be precise. We, as a nation, to survive in this ever changing world must take the appropriate steps to re-engineer our economy back to a balance of financial spending and industrial ingenuity or the future we offer our children and grandchildren will be underwhelming and bleak at best.

                                        Walt was a visionary for his time and he knew the importance of producing and maintaining the highest standards with every new venture he undertook. He also new that the company must never relax and continue to reinvest moneys to maintain the highest possible standards in the industry.

                                        Why else would he have acquired so much property here in central Florida. His dreams were off the charts and I find it appalling that imagineers are kept in check with what they are allowed to produce for the public for the sake of maintaining a healthy bottom line. Walt new that by pushing the very boundaries of creativity (no matter the cost) his company would remain financially successful for decades to come. Walt's mentality was always looking at the long term benefits while current management looks at everything with a short term view and quick profits.

                                        I can say that I am encouraged with the companies aggressive decisions pertaining to the California properties and hold out faith the the same energies will soon find there way here to the Florida property.

                                        In the meantime, I will continue to criticize the WDW managements ongoing policies that continually deteriorate the guest experience.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Re: Shame on Disney Company Management

                                          "An example of this would be to shut a ride down every second day to fix broken anamatronics, rather than every day, or every hour. The standard of the parks doesn't fall because a repair is delayed for 24hrs. In fact, this scheduling probably means that a repair in another attraction is taken car of..."

                                          I can only assume that this is directed at my comments about the AAs. I would not have been surprised to find out none of them had been fixed by the next morning. If they are broken, then they should be, but I would not have been surprised by their lack of repair. However, I was surprised to find they took the time to go in and fix one AA, but not the other. If you're already in there and already doing a repair, fix the other one too.

                                          Comment

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