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  • #41
    Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

    Originally posted by Meyers View Post
    I"ve never been too keen on Animal Kingdom as a concept. First, I think it was partly done to inhibit people from visiting Tampa's Busch Gardens with its animals.

    Second, there really weren't that many buildings or attractions to start. Mostly just landscaping. Walkways were too narrow. River ride was very lame in 1998. I can't believe the park cost so much and Disney got so little.

    I somehow felt the animals were being exploited by Disney to sell souvenirs. Guess this would be true of zoos too.

    It would take a lot of attractions to make DAK a full day park. Compare how many experiences to the Magic Kingdom.

    However, I do think the Lodge was a good idea and being able view the animals up close from your room rather unique. Conservation message is fine, but low-key.
    You could say the same for DHS and EPCOT (to a degree). Animal Kingdom has size as an advantage in terms of handling crowds, but there just aren't really things to get guests off the paths. Animal Kingdom needs a ride like Pirates or Haunted Mansion with a high hourly capacity. Heck, build 2 or 3 of those, and you'd end up with a pretty nice way to get the park to be more balanced. Add a couple of other attractions and maybe a new coaster down the line, and I think that would be great.

    Unfortunately, Magic Kingdom could definitely use another solid attraction (even with the FL Expansion) and some plussing. DHS needs 2-3 more good to great attractions. EPCOT could probably use another one or two and some plussing.

    But I think Animal Kingdom needs the attention the most. Even if the concept isn't the best, I think it's important to not let that park stagnate because Disney has done a fantastic job with the theme of the rear of the park. And one of the park's crown jewels, Expedition EVEREST, desperately needs some love and refurb attention that the park simply can't afford without another marquee attraction to help pick up the slack.

    I mean, I suppose if Disney is okay with Animal Kingdom not being a full day park, then they don't need to make much of an effort, but I'd still hate to see a fifth gate go up anytime soon because there would more or less be two outcomes in my estimate:

    1) The park is built on the cheap and with end up with Disney's Florida Adventure.

    2) The park is built with an exceptionally high budget that is well used.

    I guess there's a wide range in between, but the only way that Outcome (2) should be used is if Disney is completely confident that their 5th Park concept can effectively KILL competition from Universal. This would have to be an expensive park and a must-see park.

    I really doubt Disney would deliver on such a thing, so I'd rather see whatever money would be used go to the other parks. I mean, the money that would be used to build something comparable to opening day California Adventure could buy a really, REALLY nice E-Ticket for each current park with some extra money to go around (although I wouldn't disperse the attractions that way, I'd focus them on the parks that need them)

    Comment


    • #42
      Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

      There's a news thread going around indicating that there is a new 2000 room themed hotel expansion going to be built soon. I would welcome a fifth gate. It could alleviate some of the overcrowding going on at the parks. Most travel when the kiddies are out of school or on break and the parks are simply stuffed full of people. Add 4000-8000 more people per day and it's starting to get a little ridiculous. Add a 5th gate and have it ready by 7/4/10 lol. I did start a thread about an extreme park with adult themed thrill rides and coasters. Most on micechat were against it. They said that WDW and company are family oriented and this would split the families up. I say that enough go to WDW without kid's and would welcome a Disney 5th gate extreme park and it could alleviate the overcrowding.

      Comment


      • #43
        Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

        A 5th gate is completely unnecessary. Animal Kingdom alone has so much untapped potential that it's sad sometimes. I want a state-of-the-art Lion King ride and themed area (imagine a major E-ticket ride housed behind a looming Pride Rock, walking through Timon & Pumba's jungle, a rollercoaster through the elephant graveyard), plus Beastly Kingdom. But that'll never happen :/

        Comment


        • #44
          Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

          Originally posted by Meyers View Post
          I"ve never been too keen on Animal Kingdom as a concept. First, I think it was partly done to inhibit people from visiting Tampa's Busch Gardens with its animals.
          So under the same assessment, I would say you have never visited the Studios because it was mostly done by Eisner to discourage Universal from opening their own park in Orlando and WORST! Eisner stole some of the ideas presented to him by Universal before he came to Disney and applied them at MGM...

          I somehow felt the animals were being exploited by Disney to sell souvenirs.
          The animals? I know! I am sure Mickey and Donald don't see a penny of the profits made from tee shirts and pins with their image on them!! LOL

          It would take a lot of attractions to make DAK a full day park. Compare how many experiences to the Magic Kingdom.
          I disagree. I feel DAK *is* a full day of fun and I have spent whole days there enjoying the atmosphere, doing the rides and shows.. and the park is quality for what it is. It even has the best stage shows and theming at WDW. it is supposed to be a jungle in there you know...

          However, I do think the Lodge was a good idea and being able view the animals up close from your room rather unique. Conservation message is fine, but low-key.
          This comment saddens me.. because it is yet another example about what I have been ranting on WDW in the past 10 yrs. It's all about the hotels, and not about the parks. WDW's theme parks could be so so so much more (witness TDS in regards to the TDR experience), but yet, they are NOT! Simply because there seems to be more money, thought and emphasis on the resorts and how to trap folks on property, as opposed to present the guests with the very best possible in-park experiences. As great as some things are in the WDW parks.. there is so much room for improvement. If this trend continues, I honestly see people visiting WDW just for the hotels and never stepping foot in the parks!!! Really!!

          On a side note, not all is lost. I was in the MK today doing a "quality control" walk.. There are many improvements going on, mostly refurbishings of several facades, some floors and such. The gardens were colorful and the cleanliness was decent. I like the new restrooms' decor between AD and Liberty Square. The castle show continues to be a laughable, amateurish production (compared to the west coast's, HK's and Tokyo's). Its nice to see Fantasyland on it's way for an expanded (and hopefully not a glorified character meet/greet) experience. The Mk is still light years away from achieving the glory of all of it's 4 sister DL parks worldwide but I am glad they are trying to improve some things. I hope the work keeps up.

          Comment


          • #45
            Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

            Cordonbleus Magical Imaginary Walt Disney World Expansion timeline!!!

            2012

            DHS
            Carsland Construction breaks ground after a phenomenal opening at DCA..
            $500m

            ANIMAL KINGDOM
            Construction begins on a new NightTime Spectacular Watershow similar to World of Colour at DCA.
            $100m

            2013

            MAGIC KINGDOM
            Fantasyland Upgrade Complete and open to Public

            ANIMAL KINGDOM
            Animals of Colour Premieres
            Construction Begins on Beastly Kingdom

            $500m

            2014

            DHS
            Carsland Opens to the public

            EPCOT
            Construction begins on two new World Showcase Exhibits.
            $400m

            DOWNTOWN DISNEY
            Construction Begins on Disneys Broadway, with two full sized theatres with 1200 seat capacities... Disney's Biggest Musical Theatre hits will have residency at its two theatres, along with new Cafes, Restaurants and Bars to compliment the new area.
            $300m

            2015

            ANIMAL KINGDOM
            Beastly Kingdom opens to the public.

            MAGIC KINGDOM
            Tomorrowland $150million Makeover Begins

            DHS
            Construction begins on new Monsters Inc indoor Rollercoaster.
            $200m

            2016

            EPCOT
            The two new pavillions at World Showcase open to the public.

            DOWNTOWN DISNEY
            Disneys Broadway opens to the public with Daily perfomances WED-SUN of The Little Mermaid and Beauty and The Beast.....

            2017

            DHS
            Monsters Inc Dark Coaster opens to the public.

            MAGIC KINGDOM
            Tomorrowland Mods Completed

            DISNEYWORLD 5th Gate
            Ground is broken on the fifth gate at Walt Disney World with an intended opening of OCTOBER 1 2021 to celebrate Diensyworlds 50th Anniversary.
            Possible Themes - Disney American Adventure, DisneySEA, Coaster Kingdom.
            $2.5b
            2019

            RESORTWIDE
            Construction of a Walt Disney World Monorail extension to Downtown Disney, Hollywood Studios, Animal Kingdom the new 5th Gate and several more Resorts gets underway with a planned October 2021 opening date.
            $700m

            2021

            DISNEYWORLD 5th Gate
            Opens to the public

            RESORTWIDE
            The new Monorail System is opened to the public

            NOTES

            What it equates to is a $2.15Billion dollar investment over the initial 6year period, followed by a further $3.2billion over the following 5years.... $487million per year...

            Pie in the Sky?.... Most Definitely..

            What it would equal??? .... A Breathtaking resort that appeals to ABSOLUTELY EVERYBODY!!!!

            Could something like this be on the cards? One could only hope and dream!

            Comment


            • #46
              Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

              Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
              On a side note, not all is lost. I was in the MK today doing a "quality control" walk.. There are many improvements going on, mostly refurbishings of several facades, some floors and such. The gardens were colorful and the cleanliness was decent. I like the new restrooms' decor between AD and Liberty Square. The castle show continues to be a laughable, amateurish production (compared to the west coast's, HK's and Tokyo's). Its nice to see Fantasyland on it's way for an expanded (and hopefully not a glorified character meet/greet) experience. The Mk is still light years away from achieving the glory of all of it's 4 sister DL parks worldwide but I am glad they are trying to improve some things. I hope the work keeps up.
              This is great to hear. Knowing that you are a tough critic when it comes to WDW, it is good to see that you notice some improvements, or at least attempts to get the park back up to the standards it should be. Hopefully this will continue and WDW will become what it once was.
              Fratsor Sister - Delta Mu Chi Alpha

              ΔΜΧΑ

              Comment


              • #47
                Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
                This comment saddens me.. because it is yet another example about what I have been ranting on WDW in the past 10 yrs. It's all about the hotels, and not about the parks. WDW's theme parks could be so so so much more (witness TDS in regards to the TDR experience), but yet, they are NOT! Simply because there seems to be more money, thought and emphasis on the resorts and how to trap folks on property, as opposed to present the guests with the very best possible in-park experiences. As great as some things are in the WDW parks.. there is so much room for improvement. If this trend continues, I honestly see people visiting WDW just for the hotels and never stepping foot in the parks!!! Really!!

                On a side note, not all is lost. I was in the MK today doing a "quality control" walk.. There are many improvements going on, mostly refurbishings of several facades, some floors and such. The gardens were colorful and the cleanliness was decent. I like the new restrooms' decor between AD and Liberty Square. The castle show continues to be a laughable, amateurish production (compared to the west coast's, HK's and Tokyo's). Its nice to see Fantasyland on it's way for an expanded (and hopefully not a glorified character meet/greet) experience. The Mk is still light years away from achieving the glory of all of it's 4 sister DL parks worldwide but I am glad they are trying to improve some things. I hope the work keeps up.
                It's a bit of a moot point to compare Tokyo Disneyland and DisneySea to the other parks. There is no other park in the world with something like the Oriental Land Company that was willing to spend four billion dollars on a new park, much less one built on a landfill in the middle of the bay. The amount of capital spent on the Tokyo Disney resort is astounding and something that cannot be repeated at any other park.

                In response to your other comment, yes the Magic Kingdom has improved dramatically in terms of maintenance and upkeep lately, and it's bound to get better. I would just wish they had more flowerbeds instead of leafy green and red plants, but that's just me.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                  Originally posted by EPCOTCENTERed View Post
                  With Universal getting Harry Potter, how about buying the rights to a Lord of the Rings world?
                  Tolkien hated Disney.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                    All I am going to say about a traditional 5th gate is what I have been saying for years
                    http://micechat.com/forums/walt-disn...kingdom-4.html

                    The question for a traditional 5th gate would be, would it increase the number of onsite visitors (instead of spreading the number of onsite visitors thinner)

                    So for instance right now at any given time there can be over 100,000 people on Disney property. With a 5th gate would you be able to increase that 20%? So adding an additional 7.3 million visitors a year?

                    In all honesty it is possible, but not very likely. That being said, if you can build a park for half the price, have it occupy 1/4 the footprint of a traditional park, and cater to a demographic that you are currently missing, generate consistent profits, and help diverisfy your brand it would be hard to say no to an option like that.
                    Get the latest and greatest theme park news by

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                      Actually I am going to say more... I think with some of the new flights from South America that have opened up, along with their stronger economies it might be possible to bring in another 7 million people to Orlando....
                      Get the latest and greatest theme park news by

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                        There aren't any new theme park for Disney to copy.

                        Maybe when the Legoland opens Disney will contract with Mega Blocks and build a new park.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                          Originally posted by slushie View Post
                          there aren't any new theme park for disney to copy.

                          Maybe when the legoland opens disney will contract with mega blocks and build a new park.
                          rofl
                          Get the latest and greatest theme park news by

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                            Originally posted by cordonbleu View Post
                            Cordonbleus Magical Imaginary Walt Disney World Expansion timeline!!!

                            2012

                            DHS
                            Carsland Construction breaks ground after a phenomenal opening at DCA..
                            $500m

                            ANIMAL KINGDOM
                            Construction begins on a new NightTime Spectacular Watershow similar to World of Colour at DCA.
                            $100m

                            2013

                            MAGIC KINGDOM
                            Fantasyland Upgrade Complete and open to Public

                            ANIMAL KINGDOM
                            Animals of Colour Premieres
                            Construction Begins on Beastly Kingdom

                            $500m

                            2014

                            DHS
                            Carsland Opens to the public

                            EPCOT
                            Construction begins on two new World Showcase Exhibits.
                            $400m

                            DOWNTOWN DISNEY
                            Construction Begins on Disneys Broadway, with two full sized theatres with 1200 seat capacities... Disney's Biggest Musical Theatre hits will have residency at its two theatres, along with new Cafes, Restaurants and Bars to compliment the new area.
                            $300m

                            2015

                            ANIMAL KINGDOM
                            Beastly Kingdom opens to the public.

                            MAGIC KINGDOM
                            Tomorrowland $150million Makeover Begins

                            DHS
                            Construction begins on new Monsters Inc indoor Rollercoaster.
                            $200m

                            2016

                            EPCOT
                            The two new pavillions at World Showcase open to the public.

                            DOWNTOWN DISNEY
                            Disneys Broadway opens to the public with Daily perfomances WED-SUN of The Little Mermaid and Beauty and The Beast.....

                            2017

                            DHS
                            Monsters Inc Dark Coaster opens to the public.

                            MAGIC KINGDOM
                            Tomorrowland Mods Completed

                            DISNEYWORLD 5th Gate
                            Ground is broken on the fifth gate at Walt Disney World with an intended opening of OCTOBER 1 2021 to celebrate Diensyworlds 50th Anniversary.
                            Possible Themes - Disney American Adventure, DisneySEA, Coaster Kingdom.
                            $2.5b
                            2019

                            RESORTWIDE
                            Construction of a Walt Disney World Monorail extension to Downtown Disney, Hollywood Studios, Animal Kingdom the new 5th Gate and several more Resorts gets underway with a planned October 2021 opening date.
                            $700m

                            2021

                            DISNEYWORLD 5th Gate
                            Opens to the public

                            RESORTWIDE
                            The new Monorail System is opened to the public

                            NOTES

                            What it equates to is a $2.15Billion dollar investment over the initial 6year period, followed by a further $3.2billion over the following 5years.... $487million per year...

                            Pie in the Sky?.... Most Definitely..

                            What it would equal??? .... A Breathtaking resort that appeals to ABSOLUTELY EVERYBODY!!!!

                            Could something like this be on the cards? One could only hope and dream!
                            Please, WDI, think of something a little more creative than this. Animals of Color? seems more like a cheesy rip off of World of Color. How about an entirely new water based show unlike anything else. Carsland? Do you really want to see all of Disneyland's 2nd gate cloned into Disney World? As of now, Carsland will the only thing worthwhile exclusive do DCA.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                              One thing I wish they had kept from Disney's original idea was the idea for transportation. There is no logical way to build new monorails though since the location of other parks and things is so random. It pains me to go to the MK and see how it was supposed to fit in with the rest of the original plans. The ticket and transportation center really only makes sense when MK was to be the only theme park. The buses really are the only decent way of getting people to all of the different places.

                              They said they didn't run with his plans because they didn't want to be involved with running a city, but I think what it is now is just as complicated. Disney world's original EPCOT was to have 20,000 citizens. Disney World now employs almost 70,000 people.

                              Who knows though maybe the city would have failed just as bad and the Future World concept at today's EPCOT.

                              /rant.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                                [QUOTE=inluvwithbeast;1056011080]When I become an imagineer (hopefully) I will take WDW by storm and fix all these problems

                                I am hoping to become an imagineer too, and I will gladly help you fix WDW and also DLP (I hate DLP)

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                                  [quote=DisneyDude12;1056144945]
                                  Originally posted by inluvwithbeast View Post
                                  When I become an imagineer (hopefully) I will take WDW by storm and fix all these problems

                                  I am hoping to become an imagineer too, and I will gladly help you fix WDW and also DLP (I hate DLP)
                                  realizing imagineers are mostly hired by park management to address chosen issues.

                                  Imagineering has to sell park management on its ideas and management can say no Imagineering can't just rush in and do whatever they want sadly haha.
                                  "We all have sparks, imagination! it's how our minds... create creations!"

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                                    Originally posted by lazyboy97O View Post
                                    When EPCOT Center opened in 1982, people extended the length of their vacations to Walt Disney World. When the Disney-MGM Studios opened in 1989, people extended the length of their vacations to Walt Disney World. When Disney's Animal Kingdom opened in 1998, people did not extend the length of their vacations to Walt Disney World. Sorry, but there would have to be a greater shift in how Americans vacations in order to justify a fifth park. A new park would just be ignored or distraction people from spending as much time in the existing parks. A boutique park could work, but not a standard theme park.
                                    I don't think that's true at all. I'm curious where you get you're numbers from.
                                    Marquis d'Bod of the RCMC... always and forever

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                                      I can see how that is true.

                                      Most people only have 1 week available for vacation.

                                      So adding another park wouldn't allow people to spend more time away from work, but just restrict all of what they are capable of seeing with their available time.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                                        I've said this before, but it bears repeating. Disney should invest in improving their existing parks before even thinking about yet another gate. They could EASILY spend another billion on WDW to fix all the problem areas, add to the underdeveloped parks, and replace the weakest "attractions". That would be a far better investment than building another malnourished, half day park, with the intention of slowly adding to it later. Enough with that cynical strategy.
                                        Last edited by disneyfann121; 08-07-2010, 10:02 PM.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Re: Fifth gate for WDW?

                                          Originally posted by disneyfann121 View Post
                                          I've said this before, but it bears repeating. Disney should invest in improving their existing parks before even thinking about yet another gate. They could EASILY spend another billion on WDW to fix all the problem areas, add to the underdeveloped parks, and replace the weakest "attractions". That would be a far better investment than building another malnourished, half day park, with the intention of slowly adding to it later. Enough with that cynical strategy.
                                          You mean like DCA....
                                          Marquis d'Bod of the RCMC... always and forever

                                          Comment

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