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  • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
    I agree with you for the most part, but regardless of origin, massive projects will ultimately need approval from the top. The general opinion seems to be that WDI has all these great ideas that are simply being shot down for lack of funding. My suggestion is that the completion of some of these other major projects might make the all-elusive "green light" easier to come by.
    Not every project will need corporate approval. Something that big is in the near $1 billion range. Each level has it's own budget it ca use with a good degree of autonomy. Even if we are looking at a massive project that needs approval and funding from above, lower level advocates need to advocate for the project. Team Disney Anaheim helped Walt Disney Imagineering sell the Disney's California Adventure project on the board of directors. Now Fantasyland Expansion, was pushed on Team Disney Orlando. They did not want the project, but wer told from above they would take the money and report the expenses that will make their short term numbers look worse.

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    • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

      Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
      Enlighten me.
      Florida isn't gonna complain that "WDC wouldn't let us build X attraction because the Disney Dream has to build the AquaDuck water coaster on their ship."

      They're completely separate budgets. And like Lazyboy said, Fantasyland expansion was forced upon Florida. They weren't going to do anything otherwise. Same with Star Tours! They were happy keeping the old one. Just look at their track record in the Magic Kingdom. It's all about replacing, not adding. The 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea made way for a Pooh Playground for 2 year olds. That's their method of madness.


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      • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

        Originally posted by lazyboy97O View Post
        Not every project will need corporate approval. Something that big is in the near $1 billion range. Each level has it's own budget it ca use with a good degree of autonomy. Even if we are looking at a massive project that needs approval and funding from above, lower level advocates need to advocate for the project. Team Disney Anaheim helped Walt Disney Imagineering sell the Disney's California Adventure project on the board of directors. Now Fantasyland Expansion, was pushed on Team Disney Orlando. They did not want the project, but wer told from above they would take the money and report the expenses that will make their short term numbers look worse.
        Nothing in a project like this is categorized as an "expense," and therefore won't make any numbers look worse. If you go from $1 billion cash to $1 billion in capital assets, the company's TOTAL assets are unchanged, they're just shifting from one form to another. The only time capital expenditures hit the income statement are when they are depreciated over time. For example, if a $1 billion structure is capitalized and has an estimated life of 50 years, the company will recognize an expense of $20 million every year for the next 50 years.

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        • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

          Originally posted by Coheteboy View Post
          Florida isn't gonna complain that "WDC wouldn't let us build X attraction because the Disney Dream has to build the AquaDuck water coaster on their ship."

          They're completely separate budgets. And like Lazyboy said, Fantasyland expansion was forced upon Florida. They weren't going to do anything otherwise. Same with Star Tours! They were happy keeping the old one. Just look at their track record in the Magic Kingdom. It's all about replacing, not adding. The 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea made way for a Pooh Playground for 2 year olds. That's their method of madness.
          Well, Florida does have the possibility of expansion without replacing if TRON does well.

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          • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

            Originally posted by Krankenstein View Post
            Well, Florida does have the possibility of expansion without replacing if TRON does well.
            There are A LOT of qualifiers there.
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            • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

              I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here, but I honestly don't know if I agree with this sentiment. The heydays of WED Imagineering are long gone. Marc Davis, Ward Kimball and John Hench have been gone for nearly a decade. Neither Eddie Sotto nor Rollie Crump work for the company any longer.

              It's just not the same company.
              :blink: Bullets for Breakfast :blink:
              Join the party. Face the music.

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              • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                Originally posted by manifest View Post
                I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here, but I honestly don't know if I agree with this sentiment. The heydays of WED Imagineering are long gone. Marc Davis, Ward Kimball and John Hench have been gone for nearly a decade. Neither Eddie Sotto nor Rollie Crump work for the company any longer.

                It's just not the same company.
                You couldn't be more incorrect. And what you say is terribly discouraging. The "WED Imagineering" you know is just from what you've read in books and have seen on Television. The people you mentioned were just publicised, just like the names you know now are the VPs that get the attention and recognition. In reality, PLENTY of old WED guys are still around and kickin' and there are hundreds of extremely talented and passionate people working hard and doing great things. There is more going on now at WDI than ever before.

                Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                WWoHP: $300 million
                Disney Dream: $1 billion
                Disney Fantasy: $1 billion

                To say that WDC has been stingy with the funding is absurd. If you're not happy with the choice to spend $2 billion on cruise ships, that's one thing, but to say that Corporate Disney is underspending on capital investments is nuts. (Remember, Disney Cruise Line is lumped under Disney's "Parks and Resorts" operating segment.)
                As for the cruise ships. Just wait, you'll soon see what amazing things can be done with 1Bil. Lots of new toys for the Disney community to play with and discuss. It'll also be a preview of the future of Disney parks.

                Those expecting for simply a larger version of the Wonder are in for a shocker.

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                • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                  Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                  Nothing in a project like this is categorized as an "expense," and therefore won't make any numbers look worse. If you go from $1 billion cash to $1 billion in capital assets, the company's TOTAL assets are unchanged, they're just shifting from one form to another. The only time capital expenditures hit the income statement are when they are depreciated over time. For example, if a $1 billion structure is capitalized and has an estimated life of 50 years, the company will recognize an expense of $20 million every year for the next 50 years.
                  The problem with your thinking is that you are assuming that $1 billion spent on a project equals a final product that is itself worth $1 billion. First, the expenses on the project start to be paid out quarters and years before it is complete, those are expenses. Paying for design is an expanse, and Walt Disney Imagineering is not a nimble or cheap design firm. Then there is all of the labor, etc. It is not a direct 1:1 and even if it was, that would not be until AFTER the project is completed a couple of years after it is started.

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                  • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                    Originally posted by Taggart View Post
                    But what IS being done... Well, in a few short years from now, it will be very clear that Disney is thinking entirely different than anyone else.
                    I try to get excited about RFID, but it's really just a new type of band-aid on a much larger creative issue.
                    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.
                    sigpic

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                    • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                      Originally posted by lazyboy97O View Post
                      The problem with your thinking is that you are assuming that $1 billion spent on a project equals a final product that is itself worth $1 billion. First, the expenses on the project start to be paid out quarters and years before it is complete, those are expenses. Paying for design is an expanse, and Walt Disney Imagineering is not a nimble or cheap design firm. Then there is all of the labor, etc. It is not a direct 1:1 and even if it was, that would not be until AFTER the project is completed a couple of years after it is started.

                      None of that matters. It's not about what the final product is WORTH. ALL construction costs are capitalized, INCLUDING labor, etc etc. Even interest on loans used to fund the project are capitalized and included in the book value of the completed asset.

                      Accounting Standards state:
                      The cost of the building shall include all direct expenses. Construction costs shall include materials, labor, overhead directly related to the construction, building permits and fees, i.e. attorney and architecture. Interest on indebtedness related to the building will be capitalized during the construction process.

                      I've only been on these boards for about a week, and I've been proven wrong as to the workings of WDC by others more informed than myself several times, but I know my stuff when it comes to the Accounting and business end of these operations.

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                      • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                        Originally posted by Krankenstein View Post
                        Well, Florida does have the possibility of expansion without replacing if TRON does well.

                        The possibility is always there with Florida. They just prefer to rest on their laurels.


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                        • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                          Originally posted by Dapper Dan View Post
                          I try to get excited about RFID, but it's really just a new type of band-aid on a much larger creative issue.
                          I'm not really even talking about RFID. Just because you read an Al Lutz article about that doesn't mean you know everything there is to come. The RFID stuff isn't really that important. That's just a small amount of what's in store. In reality, the cruse ships will contain so much to do, and yes, a heap of creativity that hasn't been seen in a while.

                          And what's this creative issue you speak of? Are you already discrediting the ships before they premiere? Because the level of detail on them is stunning and should blow most people and fans away.

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                          • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                            Originally posted by Coheteboy View Post
                            The possibility is always there with Florida. They just prefer to rest on their laurels.
                            Like is said there are A LOT of qualifiers. A few mid level management meetings about them looking into incorporating this property doesn't equal actual implementation.... shall I remind people of Narnia, and Enchanted.

                            I remember when some peeps i know were being shown dailies from the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, and they all got working on adding it to Fantasyland, or DAK... etc... Then reality hit.

                            I do enjoy hearing bluesky plans... they are fun, and I am entertained by them, I just realize exactly what they are, and I try to not get others hopes up by sharing them.
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                            • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                              Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                              None of that matters. It's not about what the final product is WORTH. ALL construction costs are capitalized, INCLUDING labor, etc etc. Even interest on loans used to fund the project are capitalized and included in the book value of the completed asset.

                              Accounting Standards state:
                              The cost of the building shall include all direct expenses. Construction costs shall include materials, labor, overhead directly related to the construction, building permits and fees, i.e. attorney and architecture. Interest on indebtedness related to the building will be capitalized during the construction process.

                              I've only been on these boards for about a week, and I've been proven wrong as to the workings of WDC by others more informed than myself several times, but I know my stuff when it comes to the Accounting and business end of these operations.
                              But just having the facilities built does not equal still have the money on hand, in cash. There has to be a return on the investment or it is money down the drain. Projects inside the parks are not standard building projects. They cannot be rezoned, leased out or sold if there is no money and attractions do not generate direct revenue.

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                              • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                                I for one think the ships look and sound awesome. But this topic is never meant to be about the Cruise ships.


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                                • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                                  Originally posted by Coheteboy View Post
                                  I for one think the ships look and sound awesome. But this topic is never meant to be about the Cruise ships.
                                  But if I can give a shout out to that business division, they waited A LONG time for this investment.

                                  They were begging for it year after year, and it was well the cruise line isn't proven, then it was we are waiting for the dollar to be stronger against the Euro... then finally it was OK OK OK we will do it.
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                                  • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                                    Honestly, no matter how big,small,detailed, awesome,disney,anything, a disney cruise ship can be, they cant do half the things you can do on land, much more expensive to build, and IMO, if they spent 1 billion $ on WDW, it'd be a much better place... as they are doing in DL, and thats why DL still is top dog IMO, because it isn't ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL STRAIGHT UP NOTHING BUT, NOTHING AT ALL EVER EVER EVER, about profit, you know that stuff that lines the execs pockets? im one for profit, and wouldn't mind wealth, but i wouldn't lie cheat and steal to get every dime i can get....
                                    i
                                    i guess what im trying to say is, imagineers, all the way to kindergardeners, have limitations on sea, MUCH more then you have on land, ALSO as far as cost goes.

                                    Disney would be better off (IMO) to go and build WWoHP x1239045893408 for the same price it would cost to build a ship..

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                                    • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                                      Just been to both WDW and Universal. Universal is no where as organized or clean as Disney. From something as simple as getting lunch to having ride lines organized. Universal has been around 20 years now and still operates like a traveling carnival. Not enough benches confusing to navigate and many lines completly in the sun. And as far as Universal directing you to Wet & Wild a joke If you ever been to Typhoon Lagoon you will never want to go to Wet & Wild or that Joke a of a water park Aquatica. No other parks can ever hold a toarch to the way Disney can accomodate the entire family and at a better Value. Also as time goes on that very complex mechanical system of Harry Potter ride will be broken down very often , trust me that ride will have Mechanical problems often due to the fact of Universal's poor maintanance and they rush all ideas thru and are sub-standard. It was an awesome ride though ride it know while is still runs smooth

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                                      • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                                        ^ Always a problem when on odd occasions we'd go to UNi when I was a kid, you'd be waiting in line for 2+ hours not because the line was that long but because the ride broke down that often...

                                        Last time I went there was 5 years ago same story, but when the rides were working they were pretty cool..

                                        EVEN as Disney Maintanance has been slacking recently due to budget decreases, etc. it's still better than Universal's new perfect track record with shotty maintanance..BUT with WWoHP they may change their tune, or rather are forced to by Rowling, she has her personal touch on alot of this project so in order to keep her baby fresh may force Universal to keep an extensive maintanance budget so that everything runs smoothly..
                                        The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.
                                        -George S. Patton

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                                        • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                                          I was there for 3 days last month and I didn't see anything was down at any point.

                                          There maintenance seems to have improved in recent years though.

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