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  • #81
    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

    Originally posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    Another example is when people say things like "the bus service at WDW sucks." I was at WDW for a week in May of last year, and yes I did have to wait for the bus sometimes. Name me one bus service in the entire world where you never have to wait. Seriously, the bus service was pretty good overall, at a time when the resort was quite busy, and I never had such a long wait that it drove me to distraction.
    To be honest, I've only had one really bad experience with the Walt Disney World bus system. The bus was so late and the line had gotten so long that once it finally did show up the driver decided to pack us in like sardines. That isn't the point. The fact that Disney's bus service may be better than most city bus services also isn't the point. The real point is that Disney is expected to provide a unique immersive from the time the road signs turn purple, and that's not something that a bus simply can't accomplish. Busses exist just about everywhere, so they don’t exactly fill me with awe and inspiration as much as monorails and the various types of watercraft do.

    Looking back on the amazing public transportation plans originally dreamed up for the property, I still dream of a system of WEDWays and monorails speeding guests to whatever corner of the property they desire. This would sway more people toward staying on property because they really would be able to forget their cars and not miss them for the duration of their stay, the way the company advertises. Unfortunately any such revamp of the transportation system is prohibitively expensive, especially given that hotels weren't placed with such a system in mind, making such an undertaking that much more costly. Even without Team Disney’s vice grip on the resort’s purse strings, it’s still a very hard sell. One could argue that more efficient transport gives guests more time to eat and shop, but that’s not the real reason I want better than busses. It’s not even because of the potentially higher convenience. It’s just darn cool. It's so darn cool, in fact, that Disney's monorail trains are nearly as iconic as their castles. Sadly, darn cool isn’t a good enough reason anymore, even if it would bring the resort one step closer to the EPCOT they once attempted to make everyone think it was. Sadly, as long as busses are still cheaper than Peoplemovers, Walt Disney World will stick with busses.
    Last edited by Dapper Dan; 06-23-2010, 04:51 PM.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.
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    • #82
      Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

      Ususally I keep quiet on these things. I find these arguments sort of charming and wonder how so many people feel that they know and understand the business workings of WDI and Disney just from reading message boards, books, etc. To be honest, even people "on the inside" don't completely know the ways that the gears work. WDI has retained most of their top creative staff and continues to be the premiere theme design group today. Sure, lots of people float around, but the core of the company is unmatched and there is a type of creative flow that happens at Imagineering that just isn't matched when those same people go off to work elsewhere. If you actually knew the way WDI worked today, you'd see that it actually operates quite well as an organization. Creative flow hasn't been this good in a long time, and you need to remember that whatever comes out to the public is always watered down from great heights whether for budget, or lack of sufficient technology.

      Those here that compare WDI to Universal Creative really don't understand the difference between the two. UC is a very small company mainly focused on development. Most of the work there is farmed out to outside design companies. WDI is much different (design wise).

      The fact of the matter is that this is all an issue that only theme-park geeks think about. Sure, if business was hurting at Disney, they'd quickly fire the money cannons, but in reality, business is good and growing (even if marginally). So what if Universal has an amazing land. The reality in Florida is that the experience as a whole (the cast, the atmosphere, and the Disney name itself) can not be discredited. When you factor all of those in, you need to remember that most people come to Florida for Disney - That is the one reason that TDO sits comfortably.

      Sure, every square inch of Disney might not be the best to theme park fans, but fans are always looking to be impressed (which becomes tougher to do as time goes on and as message boards fuel dissatisfaction). But Disney is still light years away from the competition as far as the guest experience as a whole.

      Also, much of these arguments here are under the assumption that Disney watched this one blow by and doesn't have something else planned... hmm...

      ...

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      • #83
        Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

        Originally posted by Taggart View Post
        Ususally I keep quiet on these things. I find these arguments sort of charming and wonder how so many people feel that they know and understand the business workings of WDI and Disney just from reading message boards, books, etc. To be honest, even people "on the inside" don't completely know the ways that the gears work. WDI has retained most of their top creative staff and continues to be the premiere theme design group today. Sure, lots of people float around, but the core of the company is unmatched and there is a type of creative flow that happens at Imagineering that just isn't matched when those same people go off to work elsewhere. If you actually knew the way WDI worked today, you'd see that it actually operates quite well as an organization. Creative flow hasn't been this good in a long time, and you need to remember that whatever comes out to the public is always watered down from great heights whether for budget, or lack of sufficient technology.

        Those here that compare WDI to Universal Creative really don't understand the difference between the two. UC is a very small company mainly focused on development. Most of the work there is farmed out to outside design companies. WDI is much different (design wise).

        The fact of the matter is that this is all an issue that only theme-park geeks think about. Sure, if business was hurting at Disney, they'd quickly fire the money cannons, but in reality, business is good and growing (even if marginally). So what if Universal has an amazing land. The reality in Florida is that the experience as a whole (the cast, the atmosphere, and the Disney name itself) can not be discredited. When you factor all of those in, you need to remember that most people come to Florida for Disney - That is the one reason that TDO sits comfortably.

        Sure, every square inch of Disney might not be the best to theme park fans, but fans are always looking to be impressed (which becomes tougher to do as time goes on and as message boards fuel dissatisfaction). But Disney is still light years away from the competition as far as the guest experience as a whole.

        Also, much of these arguments here are under the assumption that Disney watched this one blow by and doesn't have something else planned... hmm...

        ...

        Thanks for your thought-out input, Taggart. You're right. A lot of us don't know the inner workings... but I don't know if we need to either. We're just the consumer and while Disney's Orlando property really is the king of the land and the reason why so many tourists visit there, us theme park geeks get frustrated when Universal does something like Harry Potter or when Tokyo gets Disney Sea.

        I don't think Florida (or CA) has gotten anything recently that has matched Disney Sea - and that opened 9 years ago. I sure hope you guys have a lot planned!


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        • #84
          Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

          Originally posted by OC2Epcot View Post
          I've been to WDW many times and have only been to Universal on 3 of my trips to Orlando. I only get to Orlando about every 3 years so that really spreads out those trips I have done to Universal.

          I loved Spider-Man and think I rode it probably three times on my last trip there. I'm certainly looking forward to the Harry Potter attraction with all the praise it is getting, and having the knowledge of the type of attractions IOA has done. Any trip I make to Orlando, won't be extending days to go to Universal, but subtracting days that I would normally spend at WDW.

          On my last trip to WDW I refused to ride Space Mountain again with my friends because I thought it was that bad. I have said in the past I will never ride WDW's Space Mountain again until it is rebuilt, and as other attractions start showing their age, the same goes for them.
          I probably won't set foot in Tomorrowland again until it gets fixed.

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          • #85
            Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

            I'm sorry but I don't agree with anyone about Harry Potter World, a small fraction of Universal Studios is somehow just basically PWNING Walt Disney World. I mean seriously, it's a small area featuring one e ticket ride, one rollercoaster dueling experience and a kiddie rollercoaster. Yes it is themed beautifully just as all attractions at WDW are.

            I just basically see WDW execs walking through Harry Potter world and just nodding and basically moving on with their own additions and updates to their theme parks.

            I just don't see WDW showing any fear from Universal Studios. Maybe attendance will be slightly affected during the first few weeks of HPW in operation but I expect UStudios to be hit just in the same way when the new Fantasyland opens. Both parks know what is to be expected when they open something new to the public who has the option of visiting either parks.

            I just don't see people always choosing Universal Studios over the Magic Kingdom just because of Harry Potter.

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            • #86
              Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

              Originally posted by drumbum67 View Post
              WWoHP may not be a large enough draw in itself, but it really serves to pinpoint exactly what the fanbois have been saying for years. Quality at Disney is slipping (rapidly) and the gap between Disney and other theme parks is tightening. WWoHP just points out how Disney is becoming average rather than outstanding. It's also the reason why I'll be spending my money at Universal rather than Disney next year. And to be completely honest, I'm glad Universal got the rights to HP. Disney would have never built anything close to that quality nowadays.

              I visited the WWoHP this past week and I am very impressed with the Forbidden Journey! However one theme area is not going topple Disney but i'm glad that there's now competition thats got everyone talking. Disney for that last 10+ years have become mediocre and set in their ways! My best friend works in the Corporate end of Walt Disney World and I was told when it comes to park planning like new attractions, everything is so secretive but the word has been going around from high ranking execs to the cm about Harry Potter and he may have just woken a sleeping giant. My friend is friendly with a member of WDI only had this to say... there are quite a few rides that have been proposed that would send Harry Potter back to hills just waiting to be green lit! My friend said she dont know what the proposed the rides are but only of two she have seen,Beastly Kingdom/Journey to the center of the earth and a revamped state of the art The Great Movie Ride with HD and unbeliveable AA'S(movies and acquiring the rights to use them is a task). She said a lot constructions permits have been sent out and I dont mean for hotels! Draw your conclusions.

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              • #87
                Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                Thanks for sort of filling us in, BigReid. Let's hope things get greenlit and soon.


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                • #88
                  Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                  From what I have gatherd it dosnt seem to be rides or attractions but more about the themeing of the parks. You would think that Walt would have wanted to create a massive enviroment so immersive that you would be able to forget the real world and be immersed in a whole new place.

                  I think that TDO need to stop looking at WDW as a massive cash cow and tourist trap and start to look at it as a place of pure escapism. I'm sure that if they look at it from a tourist experience view and not an economical view it would be a far better place!

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                  • #89
                    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                    Originally posted by Micoofy Duck View Post
                    I just basically see WDW execs walking through Harry Potter world and just nodding and basically moving on with their own additions and updates to their theme parks.
                    Yep. That's exactly what WDW execs will do: give Universal a smug smile, chuckle among themselves, and continue on their current course as if they're the only show in town.

                    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                    designed to appeal to everyone."

                    - Walt Disney

                    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                    - Michael Eisner

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                    • #90
                      Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                      Beastly Kingdom would beat the pumpkin juice out of WWoHP!!! Escpecially with the pre-concepted rides along with JTTCOE

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                      • #91
                        Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                        WDW and DLR may have its flaws but I will always stay a Disney fan because the parks really are unique. They are clean, staffed with pleasant and respectful people, and filled with family-friendly entertainment all generations will recognize. I'll visit Harry Potter out of curiosity but my home will always be at the Disney Parks.

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                        • #92
                          Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                          Originally posted by monktard View Post
                          WDW and DLR may have its flaws but I will always stay a Disney fan because the parks really are unique. They are clean, staffed with pleasant and respectful people, and filled with family-friendly entertainment all generations will recognize. I'll visit Harry Potter out of curiosity but my home will always be at the Disney Parks.
                          Very Very well said.

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                          • #93
                            Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                            I don't see how you can imagine the universal roller coaster park as anything but a distance 2 place to Disney. As Monktard said,all the Disney parks and attactions are so unique.

                            While I can surely see how Harry Potter will be popular..............from what I have seen its just a rollar coaster with the popular theming.

                            My question to everyone is.....given the great possiblites of the Harry Potter property....I think what Disney would have come up with would have been really amazing.

                            Remember...only Disney has Pixie Dust!


                            Just my opinion........AKK

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                            • #94
                              Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                              Originally posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
                              I don't see how you can imagine the universal roller coaster park as anything but a distance 2 place to Disney. As Monktard said,all the Disney parks and attactions are so unique.

                              While I can surely see how Harry Potter will be popular..............from what I have seen its just a rollar coaster with the popular theming.

                              My question to everyone is.....given the great possiblites of the Harry Potter property....I think what Disney would have come up with would have been really amazing.

                              Remember...only Disney has Pixie Dust!


                              Just my opinion........AKK
                              I don't think that anyone is concerned with WDW falling into second place behind Universal, just that the gap between the two may be closing. These numbers are totally hypothetical (and ignoring everything except Disney and Universal) but if WDW used to have a 70/30 share of the industry, Universal's trend toward inovation might tighten things to 60/40 or something like that.

                              Also, for whoever said that Disney's business is slowly growing, I'll have to say you're incorrect. For the first half of Fiscal 2010, Disney's Parks Operating Segment saw Net Income of $505 million, a DECREASE of 5% from the $553 million reported in Q1 and Q2 of Fiscal 2009. This, at a time when we are supposedly coming out of a recession, is not a good thing.*

                              *Please note that these numbers have nothing to do with taking a "hit" from the Fantasyland expansion. In Accounting, capital investments are essentially exchanging one asset (cash) for another asset (rides, land, etc.), and are therefore not reflected in Net Income figures.

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                              • #95
                                Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                                Originally posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post

                                While I can surely see how Harry Potter will be popular..............from what I have seen its just a rollar coaster with the popular theming.
                                So what is Space Mountain, exactly?

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                                • #96
                                  Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                                  Originally posted by BigReid92 View Post
                                  I visited the WWoHP this past week and I am very impressed with the Forbidden Journey! However one theme area is not going topple Disney but i'm glad that there's now competition thats got everyone talking. Disney for that last 10+ years have become mediocre and set in their ways! My best friend works in the Corporate end of Walt Disney World and I was told when it comes to park planning like new attractions, everything is so secretive but the word has been going around from high ranking execs to the cm about Harry Potter and he may have just woken a sleeping giant. My friend is friendly with a member of WDI only had this to say... there are quite a few rides that have been proposed that would send Harry Potter back to hills just waiting to be green lit! My friend said she dont know what the proposed the rides are but only of two she have seen,Beastly Kingdom/Journey to the center of the earth and a revamped state of the art The Great Movie Ride with HD and unbeliveable AA'S(movies and acquiring the rights to use them is a task). She said a lot constructions permits have been sent out and I dont mean for hotels! Draw your conclusions.
                                  to those who said that the imagineers weren't good enough to beat potterland....

                                  [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOMk5GWvlks]YouTube - Scrubs Elliot's New 'I Told You So' Dance[/ame]

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                                  • #97
                                    Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                                    Originally posted by Coheteboy View Post
                                    Thanks for your thought-out input, Taggart. You're right. A lot of us don't know the inner workings... but I don't know if we need to either. We're just the consumer and while Disney's Orlando property really is the king of the land and the reason why so many tourists visit there, us theme park geeks get frustrated when Universal does something like Harry Potter or when Tokyo gets Disney Sea.

                                    I don't think Florida (or CA) has gotten anything recently that has matched Disney Sea - and that opened 9 years ago. I sure hope you guys have a lot planned!
                                    So you're saying that "theme park geeks get frustrated" because the best theme park in the world hasn't been built in the USA?

                                    I wouldn't also get so frustrated over WDW. Every single person I know who has visited WDW, had the time of their lives even though they swore, bad mouthed and bashed HKDL. WDW as a whole is the best family vacation destination on the planet in my opinion and will never be "pwned" or "kicked in the arse" as many here say so.

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                                    • #98
                                      Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                                      @BigReid92 all I am going to say is that actions speak louder than words, and if I had a nickel for the amazing concept art, and wonderful late night conversations with disney VP's who promised amazing things in the pipeline only to have them disappear on fiscal calendar I would be a wealthy man.
                                      Get the latest and greatest theme park news by

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                                      • #99
                                        Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                                        Originally posted by disneyfann121 View Post
                                        Look, I'm not saying that these boards should contain nothing but Disney cheerleading. Everyone is free to express their views, but sometimes people exaggerate or overstate things in order to make a point.
                                        Hyperbole is the normal form of communication in a forum like this. In the words of Kent Brockman, "I've seen a lot of bad things in my time, and I can tell you without hyperbole that this is a million times worse!" Yes, I agree that WDW management has cut a lot of corners, and they need to put some money into both maintaining their existing attractions and designing and building new ones. But the bias that I've read in a lot of these posts is just staggering. Remember when DCA first opened the ToT, and the comparisons and screams of how horrible it was and how they ruined it? Now we have people saying that it's a better version than Florida's. Ah well, to each their own.

                                        I think that if you have a set prejudice for either park, it's going to color your views. I'm fortunate enough to visit both on a regular basis. And while it's obvious that the Disney company is putting much more into its Anaheim property than its Orlando one, there is still plenty of fun to have in WDW, plenty of great rides, plenty of world class shows and bands. I never visit without wishing that I could stay longer and do more. I also feel very sad when I see a Home Depot 8 foot ladder in plain sight in a historic scene in Spaceship Earth. So yeah, WDW needs to do better. But it's doing some pretty incredible things as it is, and people will continue to visit in droves for many years to come, regardless of whether there are any new E tickets or not.

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                                        • Re: Why the Imagineers can at any time beat WWohP, but at the same time can't

                                          Hey there Bystander,

                                          My point was more that universal had so much material to work with and all they could do is biuld another rollar coaster.?????........Universal just doesn't have to ability to come up with anything unique!...the whole park is rollar coasters



                                          AKK

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