[Rumor] Bigger DTD Plans

[KingEric]

So Screamscape is reporting a lot of additional additions for DTD as a whole. I will post the quote then post my thoughts, and confirm what I know and comment on what i have not heard anything about.

Walt Disney World Resort

Things I Know:
HOB is looking at leaving.. there are some attractive offers to relocate it.
Cirque is looking at various options, some of which include a new show, others that include not having an permanent show but having it be a location for traveling shows.

Things I don't know,but seem plausible:
if HOB leaves that it makes sense that they could move Harley wherever. That seems like speculation.
Virgin redevelopment this also sounds like speculation, but seems like anything is likely since no one has come in.

Things I doubt:
The Trolley- they just showed off some "pretty" concept art, and in the art there was no hint of a transportation system. That aside, with the boats, and the current spending trends I would really really really doubt this.

Thoughts?

[celticdar]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

I saw the art this morning on the Disney Blog - it looks amazing - I have two concerns, however. First - the trolley - I hope (really hope) they come through with this - it would really tie the whole DTD area together. Maybe if we all think of a wonderful thought. ;-) Secondly, I think it's great that they get high-end shops to move in there and they always look wonderful when they first open but then when they don't make their goals in the first couple of quarters, they get closed and those spaces end up looking like crap (for proof, I refer you to half of the malls in the country at the moment). Hopefully, these business will do well with tourists who presumably come on vacation with money to spend. I would hate to see those spaces become like revolving doors, if you know what I mean. I would almost rather that they come up with a few more creative Disney shops (like the one devoted entirely to villians in DHS, for example).

[KingEric]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

I saw the art this morning on the Disney Blog - it looks amazing - I have two concerns, however. First - the trolley - I hope (really hope) they come through with this - it would really tie the whole DTD area together. Maybe if we all think of a wonderful thought. ;-) Secondly, I think it's great that they get high-end shops to move in there and they always look wonderful when they first open but then when they don't make their goals in the first couple of quarters, they get closed and those spaces end up looking like crap (for proof, I refer you to half of the malls in the country at the moment). Hopefully, these business will do well with tourists who presumably come on vacation with money to spend. I would hate to see those spaces become like revolving doors, if you know what I mean. I would almost rather that they come up with a few more creative Disney shops (like the one devoted entirely to villians in DHS, for example).

Oh I agree. The Trolley would be a wonderful way to tie all of DTD together. But we will see.

I would also like to see one of a kind shops. Give me a reason to go to DTD and not the Mall of Millenia or the Florida or even the Premium Outlets.

[ErikInTheCity]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

Cirque is looking at various options, some of which include a new show, others that include not having an permanent show but having it be a location for traveling shows.

I don't really see how plausible this is, aside from a new show. La Nouba was very successful in its early years, and may not do great business now, but it is still popular. Replacing the show would guarantee a full theatre for a few years, and could inject some new blood and cha-ching into DTD Westside.

What I do not see happening is the theatre sitting dormant until a touring show comes through. Arena and tent configurations for most Cirque shows are all unique to the show. . .without reconfiguring the theatre for each show, it would be ludicrous to think a tour could just move in and restage and adjust scenic elements and rigging for a short run. The theatre would have to be gutted and renovated into more of a black box type of space that would be reconfigurable for each new production. Too much money involved for load-ins.

On that note, it would be wonderful if a Hyperion Theatre type space was built to accomodate Disney's touring productions, and maybe even bring in seasonal entertainment such as Radio City Christmas Spectacular or the like. I know this rumor has been around forever, but I could definitely see it working, and would not really compete with the Carr.

Where have you heard that HOB could move? CityWalk is too obvious.

[KingEric]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

I don't really see how plausible this is, aside from a new show. La Nouba was very successful in its early years, and may not do great business now, but it is still popular. Replacing the show would guarantee a full theatre for a few years, and could inject some new blood and cha-ching into DTD Westside.

What I do not see happening is the theatre sitting dormant until a touring show comes through. Arena and tent configurations for most Cirque shows are all unique to the show. . .without reconfiguring the theatre for each show, it would be ludicrous to think a tour could just move in and restage and adjust scenic elements and rigging for a short run. The theatre would have to be gutted and renovated into more of a black box type of space that would be reconfigurable for each new production. Too much money involved for load-ins.

On that note, it would be wonderful if a Hyperion Theatre type space was built to accomodate Disney's touring productions, and maybe even bring in seasonal entertainment such as Radio City Christmas Spectacular or the like. I know this rumor has been around forever, but I could definitely see it working, and would not really compete with the Carr.

Where have you heard that HOB could move? CityWalk is too obvious.

1. These are ideas being thrown out. I am not sure what has been decided or if they are even close to a decision at this moment in time. I am intimately familiar with cirque, and am aware of the different needs of the various touring shows.

2. HOB move- CityWalk is not one of the venues. More than that I can't really say without getting myself in trouble. But who knows maybe someone at leasing at DTD will swoop in and give them enough incentive to keep them at DTD.

[KingEric]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

Maybe someone besides myself can speak on behalf of how 3rd Party Vendors feel about the Disney Dinning Plan and it's compensation to them is not incentive to provide the best quality food and service.

[Dustysage]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

I saw the art this morning on the Disney Blog - it looks amazing

Nothing about the art looked amazing to me. Just recycling some of the buildings and removing creative things like the Adventurers Club and Comedy Warehouse. Too many shops and restaurants as it is.

Downtown Disney needs more entertainment to truly be a destination. Otherwise, you can just eat and shop at the parks and hotels.

[flotsam_mike]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

The more I hear about this project, the less and less I care about visiting. DTD just seems to be making itself less relevant, both to tourists and locals. Other than HOB, are there other any entertainment venues left that would attract locals? I don't see Cirque moving to a schedule of rotating or touring shows. For locals this would be great (if you like Cirque), but for tourists who often do long range planning, rotating shows might make pre ticket sales harder.

Do you think that TDO knows what it wants DTD to be? Is the outdoor mall concept really where TDO wants to go or is this just them not knowing what else to do?

[TravisMT81]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

The trolley was probably pulled from the wdw magic thread oy! There is so much that needs to be done down there.

[KingEric]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

The trolley was probably pulled from the wdw magic thread oy! There is so much that needs to be done down there.

Like I said this was the first I had ever heard about it.

[SpaceJesus]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

The part about Harley Davidson possibly replacing HOB... Wow. I can't believe they would want MORE of that in Downtown Disney. It's so trashy!

[aimster]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

Where would HOB move to if they left Disney property?

[WDWFigment]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

Nothing about the art looked amazing to me. Just recycling some of the buildings and removing creative things like the Adventurers Club and Comedy Warehouse. Too many shops and restaurants as it is.

Downtown Disney needs more entertainment to truly be a destination. Otherwise, you can just eat and shop at the parks and hotels.

I see your point to an extent, but if implemented correctly (huge if, right?), I think it could be an improvement from the status quo. Obviously, short of bringing back the AC and other themed clubs, it's not going to be on par with PI. However, it could still be a nicely done destination, and the concept art and other rumblings of what is coming to that area of the island sure sound/look a lot better than what COULD have happened. I expected the absolute worst, and this is much better than that!

That said, I don't put much stock in ANYTHING Screamscape reports. I think their "sources" are internet forums.

[MJMcB]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

I hope HoB stays. Its one of the better chains. I like eating there

[KingEric]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

I hope HoB stays. Its one of the better chains. I like eating there

Well who knows at this moment in time. Retail is desperate right now, there are crazy deals out there, and people are wheeling and dealing.

[Dapper Dan]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

I think letting House of Blues get away would be a big mistake. Back when I lived in Orlando, concerts at the House of Blues was the only reason I ever went to Downtown Disney. It's pretty essential if they want to compete with the Hard Rock at Universal. Unless they plan on building some other sort of indoor live music venue.

[aimster]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

I hope HoB stays. Its one of the better chains. I like eating there

I've never eaten at the restaurant, but I've seen several concerts there.

[toonaspie]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

One thought occured to me after hearing about the addition of a trolley (which would be convenient as walking from one side of DD to another is a pain!:

Does it seem that Disney seems to want to Californian-ize WDW a bit too much? First the rumors of a California themed resort and now Hyperion Wharf? The Victorian Amusement Pier theme is not very original (Paradise Pier anyone?) but I'm glad that at the very least they're finally doing something about this area instead of leaving it as a ghost town.

[lazyboy97O]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

House of Blues wanting to leave does not surprise me. The true problem with Downtown Disney has been the West Side. The traffic has just never entered this area and I can see why any third party operator would want out. Disney kept scapegoating Pleasure Island, by removing the turnstiles, then closing the clubs, then promising new shops and now, three years later, we have a vague announcement about a project that may be done in another three years. The new project has been described as leisurely, and that sort of slowing down is not good for the tenants in the West Side.

The trolley makes sense and really should be on the table. It gives people a means of visibly getting back once they have entered down the single, linear drag of the West Side. Tenants leaving West Side, especially moving to another location in Orlando, is really bad for Disney and their hopes of filling Hyperion Wharf with third party operators. Disney is on the verge of having a catastrophic nightmare on their hands that is going to cost a lot of money to fix.

[KingEric]

Re: Bigger DTD Plans

House of Blues wanting to leave does not surprise me. The true problem with Downtown Disney has been the West Side. The traffic has just never entered this area and I can see why any third party operator would want out. Disney kept scapegoating Pleasure Island, by removing the turnstiles, then closing the clubs, then promising new shops and now, three years later, we have a vague announcement about a project that may be done in another three years. The new project has been described as leisurely, and that sort of slowing down is not good for the tenants in the West Side.

The trolley makes sense and really should be on the table. It gives people a means of visibly getting back once they have entered down the single, linear drag of the West Side. Tenants leaving West Side, especially moving to another location in Orlando, is really bad for Disney and their hopes of filling Hyperion Wharf with third party operators. Disney is on the verge of having a catastrophic nightmare on their hands that is going to cost a lot of money to fix.

I 100% agree. That is why I wish they would move the bus stop back to the west end. Reopen Valet Parking at Cirque, and fill the expansion pads over there.