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  • Lytum Hyde
    replied
    Re: USA Today basically just reads micechat lol: Theme park showdown: Harry Potter vs

    First off, I am an annual passholder to Disney and Universal.

    I like Universal, but I'm not in love with Universal. Harry Potter is a really good themed area, feels kinda small and can feel very claustrophobic. The Forbidden Journey is one of the best Theme Park rides I've ever been on. It just encompasses so many elements that make it really cool. My problem is the rest Islands of Adventure doesn't really live up to it. Jurassic Park needs a lot of work, (I was REALLY disappointed with JP) Toon Lagoon is nice, the Marvel area has Spiderman and Hulk, Suess Landing wasn't my cup of tea, and the Lost Continent was just okay, kinda "eh" feeling. Harry Potter gives them a great thing to build off of and some extra capital to improve other areas of the Park. I'm just not in the crowd that thinks IOA or Universal in general is a world changing experience.

    Yes I know, Epcot, DHS, and DAK need work and aren't necessarily "complete" parks either. I fully believe that Disney needs to take some DCA size money (1.5B) and use it to improve these 3 parks.

    Leave a comment:


  • KingEric
    replied
    Re: USA Today basically just reads micechat lol: Theme park showdown: Harry Potter vs

    Originally posted by yoyoflamingo View Post
    It's actually an extensive topic on many message boards, not just this one.
    Well this is the only board that really matters! lol

    Leave a comment:


  • yoyoflamingo
    replied
    Re: USA Today basically just reads micechat lol: Theme park showdown: Harry Potter vs

    It's actually an extensive topic on many message boards, not just this one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Speedway
    replied
    Re: USA Today basically just reads micechat lol: Theme park showdown: Harry Potter vs

    I'm from Manchester, England!

    Leave a comment:


  • firebolt413
    replied
    Re: USA Today basically just reads micechat lol: Theme park showdown: Harry Potter vs

    haha sounds like it.

    Leave a comment:


  • KingEric
    replied
    USA Today basically just reads micechat lol: Theme park showdown: Harry Potter vs. Mi

    This was on the front page this morning of USA Today. I swear they just read micechat to get story ideas lol.

    ORLANDO — Craig Taylor wasn't much interested in vacationing in Orlando with his parents this month — until he and his girlfriend plugged into the hype swirling around the new Harry Potter attraction.
    So Taylor, 23, a police dispatcher who lives near Manchester, England, and girlfriend Katherine Lucarz, 22, both fans of the wildly popular books and movies about the boy wizard, decided they had to tag along to experience The Wizarding World of Harry Potter at Universal Orlando. That's where they were on a sunny, cool weekday afternoon in early December, taking a break among the other Muggles in the shadow of the towering Hogwarts castle.
    "It's brilliant," says Lucarz, adding that the steep, snow-covered rooftops, crooked chimneys and shops of Hogsmeade village are even more like the movies than she imagined. Other visitors queued up just to get in the door at Ollivander's Wand Shop, and waited an hour for the centerpiece ride, a fantastic state-of-the-art flight simulator/robocoaster called "Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey."

    (Article continued at link)
    Theme park showdown: Harry Potter vs. Mickey Mouse - USATODAY.com
    Last edited by penguinsoda; 12-13-2010, 01:26 PM. Reason: Article shortened for copyright issues

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  • disneyfann121
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    Originally posted by Speedway View Post
    This is excellent news for Disney fans. Excellent.

    Hopefully we'll see some changes in TDO's priorities and they'll start to realize what actually makes people slap down $80 for a theme park ticket. Is it the restaurants? Why, is it the shops? It must be the chance to meet an amateur actor in a giant suit.

    No. It's the rides.
    Very true. All the other stuff is window dressing. It may be important, but it is all secondary to the rides and attractions. WWOHP has made this theme park truism abundangly clear. You want to increase attendance and revenues? Create great attractions and themed lands.

    Leave a comment:


  • disneyfann121
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    Originally posted by toonaspie View Post
    It's hypocritical of Disney after all the effort they put into turning Disneyland into a destination resort.
    Apparently, they want to have their cake, and eat it, too. Make APs and other promos so cheap that they jam the parks all year long, but also try to lure tourists into this mess, too, and call it a "resort". News flash for Disney management: you can't have it both ways!

    Leave a comment:


  • Speedway
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    This is excellent news for Disney fans. Excellent.

    Hopefully we'll see some changes in TDO's priorities and they'll start to realize what actually makes people slap down $80 for a theme park ticket. Is it the restaurants? Why, is it the shops? It must be the chance to meet an amateur actor in a giant suit.

    No. It's the rides.

    Leave a comment:


  • Supermatt70
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Are you listening, TDA?
    TDA?

    I think TDO & Burbank need to be listening!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Wiggins
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
    Generally because of the downward spirial over discounting causes. Too much discounting -> too little revenue -> less profit -> less investment -> less to attract the customers back next season -> lower attendance -> greater need to discount... and the cycle continues until you stagnate and die.
    BINGO.

    Are you listening, TDA?

    Leave a comment:


  • EpcotLady
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    WWOHP really did do well--This isn't surprising. It's new, exciting. I really don't like Universal at ALL, but I am a huge HP fan, so I had to go. I've been to Universal twice in my life--It doesn't have the magic of Disney. But HP, that's always magical, and I really did enjoy it.

    Disney did have a minimal ticket price increase, but I wouldn't say that's to blame. Not many new attractions, just a bad financial year either way--Tons of people aren't travelling. I go to Disney around 20 times a year, but didn't go nearly as much this year as others. Just trying to conserve. And I live close!

    I wouldn't worry about it. They will get back on track. Disney will never be in that much trouble--It's the Happiest Place on Earth. :-)

    Leave a comment:


  • toonaspie
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    Originally posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    It is cheap, compared to what tourists pay for a lot less time at DLR. It costs more than $1200 for flights + hotel + park tickets, and when we get there, the park is overwhelmed by hordes of AP holders all year long. And with the monthly payment plans for the SoCal pass (what is it now, $8 per month? $10? Laughable) we pay big bucks for the privilege of standing in line behind people who paid pennies on the dollar to get in the park.

    This game of "screw the tourists" has to end. Due to overcrowding, the quality of the park experience is going downhill, and the long term sustainability of DLR is threatened. Currently, the resort is in a downward spiral of ever increasing reliance on locals and flat or declining revenue despite swelling attendance. This increasingly alienates tourists, who will look to other destinations to spend their vacation dollars, which will make DLR even more dependent on locals who pay a pittance per visit.

    Maintenance, refurbishment, crowd control and CM costs go up due to the sheer number of bodies trooping through the parks, while revenues don't correspond to the number of people (over)crowding the place. Come on, folks, this is sustainable in the long run? This is a recipe for a stagnating park that can't afford to improve and innovate, and might explain the glacial pace of new attractions at both resorts (although tight-wad management has something to do with it, too).
    It's hypocritical of Disney after all the effort they put into turning Disneyland into a destination resort.

    Leave a comment:


  • KingEric
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    Originally posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    It is we pay big bucks for the privilege of standing in line behind people who paid pennies on the dollar to get in the park.

    This game of "screw the tourists" has to end. Due to overcrowding, the quality of the park experience is going downhill, and the long term sustainability of DLR is threatened. Currently, the resort is in a downward spiral of ever increasing reliance on locals and flat or declining revenue despite swelling attendance. This increasingly alienates tourists, who will look to other destinations to spend their vacation dollars, which will make DLR even more dependent on locals who pay a pittance per visit.

    Maintenance, refurbishment, crowd control and CM costs go up due to the sheer number of bodies trooping through the parks, while revenues don't correspond to the number of people (over)crowding the place. Come on, folks, this is sustainable in the long run? This is a recipe for a stagnating park that can't afford to improve and innovate, and might explain the glacial pace of new attractions at both resorts (although tight-wad management has something to do with it, too).
    I 1,000,000% agree!!!!! I hate riding Haunted Mansion at DLR because of all the locals who ruin the pre-show, but quiting along.

    Not to mention the fact that they game the FP system, and Monopolize nighttime shows and viewing spots.

    Dustysage had some great suggestions about crowding problems in the Disneyland Forum, and I have to say that I agree. I think FP should be for day guests ONLY and not APs.

    Leave a comment:


  • disneyfann121
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    Originally posted by SummerInFL View Post
    For a family of four, $1,200 is not exactly cheap.
    It is cheap, compared to what tourists pay for a lot less time at DLR. It costs more than $1200 for flights + hotel + park tickets, and when we get there, the park is overwhelmed by hordes of AP holders all year long. And with the monthly payment plans for the SoCal pass (what is it now, $8 per month? $10? Laughable) we pay big bucks for the privilege of standing in line behind people who paid pennies on the dollar to get in the park.

    This game of "screw the tourists" has to end. Due to overcrowding, the quality of the park experience is going downhill, and the long term sustainability of DLR is threatened. Currently, the resort is in a downward spiral of ever increasing reliance on locals and flat or declining revenue despite swelling attendance. This increasingly alienates tourists, who will look to other destinations to spend their vacation dollars, which will make DLR even more dependent on locals who pay a pittance per visit.

    Maintenance, refurbishment, crowd control and CM costs go up due to the sheer number of bodies trooping through the parks, while revenues don't correspond to the number of people (over)crowding the place. Come on, folks, this is sustainable in the long run? This is a recipe for a stagnating park that can't afford to improve and innovate, and might explain the glacial pace of new attractions at both resorts (although tight-wad management has something to do with it, too).
    Last edited by disneyfann121; 12-01-2010, 06:24 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • yoyoflamingo
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    Originally posted by SeeJackRunn View Post
    Actually when I went to WWHOP I found it made the rest of the park look like garbage and the rest of the guests avoided all other areas of Universal like the plague. Harry Potter has a great ride, but it's just too small for it to be more than a few hour event. In the end I think Universal created something great, but it also hurt themself in my opinion because nothing else they have measures up.
    Originally posted by KingEric View Post
    That is a interesting opinion SeeJackRunn, one that I have only heard on this message board. Question to you, how does customer service compare to you UO vs WDW. Personally I have much BETTER customer service at UO vs WDW
    I feel the same way as SeeJackRun. We went to Universal before Harry Potter opened, but it just wasn't our thing. IOA looked worn and run down, and nothing really interested us at all. Would we go back for Harry Potter? Absolutely! But, I'm not planning an entire vacation around it either...

    As for customer service, I think it's hit or miss. Personally, I think I have gotten much better customer service at WDW than Universal, but I think it depends on the day, the situation, etc. I really can't think of any BAD customer experiences at either, but for me, WDW CMs have always gone above and beyond for me, while Universal's (in the granted, only 1 day we were there) did not.

    Leave a comment:


  • sheetz
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    Originally posted by flynnibus View Post

    First, Disney does release numbers we can make good inferences from... revenue is flat, profit is down, attendance is flat. I'm not sure why you don't want to read the info from Disney. http://corporate.disney.go.com/inves...gs/2010_q4.pdf
    There's nothing in there that hasn't been stated in articles and press releases. Again, I said we don't know *resort specific* numbers, i.e., numbers broken down by East and West Coast operations. We can't make any kind of inferences about DLR from combined figures because WDW dominates the profits and revenues numbers by even more than it does in attendance figures. If WDW pulls in 7 or 8 times the profit and revenue that DLR does, then even fairly solid gains in CA can be wiped out by relatively minor losses in FL.

    The only reference I can find to Disneyland specifically are in this paragraph:

    "For the year, decreased operating income at our domestic operations was due to higher costs at our domestic resorts, lower hotel occupancy and attendance at Walt Disney World Resort and a decrease at Disney Cruise Line, partially offset by higher guest spending at our domestic resorts, primarily due to higher average ticket prices and increased attendance at Disneyland Resort. Increased costs at domestic resorts reflected labor cost inflation, higher pension and post-retirement medical expenses and costs for new guest offerings including World of Color at Disneyland Resort."

    From this excerpt it's clear that WDW is slumping but it's really not at all clear just how well DLR is doing.

    Leave a comment:


  • flynnibus
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    Originally posted by sheetz View Post
    I mean WDW sells separate Florida Select passes for both children and adults. The adult pass costs $185 while the child's select pass is $167. SoCal select passes cost $184 for everyone, therefore the average price of a Select pass sold is going to be a bit less in FL compared to CA.
    You're complicating the matter - the earlier posts were about adult prices only in my post.. and costs are reasonably close to each other. Your point that SoCal passes are 'far more expensive' then the comparable FL passes is bunk.

    Originally posted by sheetz View Post
    I wouldn't say the WDW AP prices are artificially prop'd up, though
    WDW AP pricing has to take into account that stays longer then 5 days are much more common then in DLR. The WDW pricing is not linear in that they try to get as much of their revenue from the sweet spot people are going to stay, and then try to lure them into staying longer with cheap tickets.

    Because the DLR stays are so much shorter, there isn't as much 'runway' as they would say to smooth out the curve. The 'sweet' spot where Disney looks to get the greatest return on the attach rate is different.

    Originally posted by sheetz View Post
    It's true that DLR has a larger local population base, but I don't believe that necessarily makes a Socal Select pass any "cheaper" than a similarly priced Florida Select pass. People still have to want to go to the parks
    It doesn't make it 'cheaper' it makes it UNDERVALUED. I already said they are relatively the same price - the issue is SoCal is so undervalued compared to the potential market.

    Originally posted by sheetz View Post
    As I said before, other local parks have been practically giving away their annual passes and their attendances have been plummeting
    Generally because of the downward spirial over discounting causes. Too much discounting -> too little revenue -> less profit -> less investment -> less to attract the customers back next season -> lower attendance -> greater need to discount... and the cycle continues until you stagnate and die.

    Discounting is intended to make you MORE money - not less. When it's not, and you continue to do so with no other corrective action.. you die.

    Originally posted by sheetz View Post
    We can't be 100% sure unless Disney releases resort specific numbers, but based on what we have heard from people like Al regarding food and beverage sales as a result of WoC and Glowfest/Electronica I would guess that revenues and profits are up as well since those are items that visitors to DLR have not traditionally spent lots of money on in the past.
    First, Disney does release numbers we can make good inferences from... revenue is flat, profit is down, attendance is flat. I'm not sure why you don't want to read the info from Disney. http://corporate.disney.go.com/inves...gs/2010_q4.pdf And Al reported that spending is NOT following the spikes in attendance, not the other way around... the positive news of late has been from the paid ticket events and special event spending. Disney's PR mentions higher DLR attendance, and separately mentions a 20% attendance increase for DCA in the Orlando Sent. article.

    At the end of the day - what matters is revenue and profit - not fluffy attendance numbers.

    Leave a comment:


  • SummerInFL
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    Originally posted by sheetz View Post
    Incidentally, WDW also offers cheap APs to Florida residents.

    WDW Pass Prices (including tax)
    Premium (4 parks only) $403.64 (adult) $364.23 (child)
    Seasonal Pass $275.84 (adult) $249.21 (child)
    Select $185.31 (adult) $167.21 (child)

    It seems the cheaper SoCal passes are comparatively far more expensive than the WDW ones.
    For a family of four, $1,200 is not exactly cheap.

    Leave a comment:


  • sheetz
    replied
    Re: Disney World reports flat attendance and tries to conceal it.

    Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
    Where does child get into this? The comparison was on the cheap-o passes.
    I mean WDW sells separate Florida Select passes for both children and adults. The adult pass costs $185 while the child's select pass is $167. SoCal select passes cost $184 for everyone, therefore the average price of a Select pass sold is going to be a bit less in FL compared to CA.


    Only when you compare against a number that is artificially prop'd up. Your comparison is flaky. In general, both DLR and WDW are charging the similar amounts to their local resident populations... which isn't good when DLR has way more demand (in local population), and way less capacity (in terms of space/parks).
    I wouldn't say the WDW AP prices are artificially prop'd up, though. Unlike the WDW hotels the regular APs aren't typically sold at discounts and WDW does have a substantial number of passholders. It's true that DLR has a larger local population base, but I don't believe that necessarily makes a Socal Select pass any "cheaper" than a similarly priced Florida Select pass. People still have to want to go to the parks. As I said before, other local parks have been practically giving away their annual passes and their attendances have been plummeting.


    Disney did quote the DCA boost - and the rest is based on numbers you provided. So are the numbers significant or not??
    .
    We can't be 100% sure unless Disney releases resort specific numbers, but based on what we have heard from people like Al regarding food and beverage sales as a result of WoC and Glowfest/Electronica I would guess that revenues and profits are up as well since those are items that visitors to DLR have not traditionally spent lots of money on in the past.
    Last edited by sheetz; 11-29-2010, 12:20 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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