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Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

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  • [Idea] Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

    If Disney were to want to find a way to seriously compete with IOA's Harry Potter land and do a big immersive project of their own in WDW, what should they do? And what park would they place it in? How big would it be and what type of attractions would it have? Would it be a major immersion like DCA's Carsland or something small and tacky like A Bug's Land or TSPL? Or would it be all indoor like Mermaid Lagoon?

    I know people have been thinking about that maybe DHS should do something w/ Star Wars (in the Echo Lake area). I'm no Star Wars nut so I wouldn't know how that would work.

    Toss around your ideas and have fun!

  • #2
    Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

    To me, a Star-Wars-Land is a no brainer. Star Wars has an obsessive geek fan base that matches or exceeds Harry Potter. Star Wars box office is amazingly high. There's an overwhelming amount of Star Wars merchandise, books, and media on the property.

    They need to do a completely immersive environment at one of those planets, or maybe a combination. A new E-Ticket won't be in space like Star Tours, but could be on the planet in the atmosphere. The Cloud Planet or the Cities. Take advantage of the Star Wars mythology.

    Use the Jedi to great effect. Harry Potter has wizards. Star Wars has their Jedi. Do mind tricks. Levitate. Deflect laser beams. Fight wonderous beasts. Plot against the empire.

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    • #3
      Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

      Star Wars, Beastly Kingdom, something villain related would all be good calls for trap cards for Disney to pull against Potter
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      • #4
        Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

        hmmm...,

        I dunno guys. A Star Wars immersive area? Maybe, I have a couple of problems with this idea though. For one thing, Star Wars was at the height of its "mania" some twenty to thirty years ago. Yes, it's still really popular, but it doesn't have the freshness that Potter has. I think it would look like they are trying to do what Universal did with Potter, and they had to go back thirty years to find something as popular.

        Personally, I don't think that Disney should try to directly reproduce a Potter-type area. Harry Potter books/movies are a phenomenon unlikely to be repeated in our lifetime (like there has never been another Beatles). Universal got lucky (and they did a good job with it). I think Disney should think more "big-picture" and continue to innovate new, highly-themed rides (a la Expedition Everest and Toy Story Mania) and place such attractions in all four parks. I'd also like them to do a better job of maintaining what's already there, but that's a subject that's been worn out.

        Potter really knocked my socks off, and I'll definitely be going back, but truthfully it's a very small area with not a heck of a lot to do. As wonderful as it is, it can't offer a full vacation the way WDW can. I also think that Potter doesn't have a lot of appeal to non-fans, who may be happy to see it once or twice because everyone's talking about it, but may not care to go back again and again and again like die-hard fans. And, there's also the fact that as the last movie comes out, and more times passes, Potter mania will fade the same way Star Wars mania has faded.

        Over the long haul, I think WDW could compete best by striving for the highest standards of theming, detail, immersion, cleanliness and up-keep, throughout all four of their parks; and not just dump a lot of money into one area. The Haunted Mansion refurb was a great example of something done right, as is the new Pooh queue. Keep that up, and do A LOT more of that, and they'll stay king of the hill.

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        • #5
          Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

          Originally posted by FigmentJedi View Post
          Star Wars, Beastly Kingdom, something villain related would all be good calls for trap cards for Disney to pull against Potter
          Or all 3. Disney doesn't just need to match Potter, it needs to exceed it sufficiently enough that folks don't have time to take a day for Universal. That would mean multiple massive expansions. Fantasyland is a good start but a new country at Epcot with major E-Ticket, Beastly Kingdom expansion at Animal Kingdom, and a Star Wars land or Carsland at the Studios would be required to put WDW back on track.
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          • #6
            Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

            Something has got to be done with both Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom. Both parks are in need of more things to do. A new Star Wars territory with different planets represented would be an amazing thing for MILLIONS of fans around the world. You have older Star Wars fans and you have younger Star Wars fans from the Clone Wars series (that's still going on btw).

            Being the only place in the world to dine or drink at the Mos Eisley Cantina would be a treat for so many fan boys. It'd make Star Wars weekends even more of a highlight each year.



            Animal Kingdom needs a new land and it needs several more attractions. A complete redesign of Dinoland, eliminating the Hester and Chester area would be nice. They should also have "A Bug's Land" but with an assortment of bug displays, fun facts, and a few unique rides. Then they should carry through with Beastly Kingdom, having seen what Universal did and turn into Harry Potter, they can do something better and different.


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            • #7
              Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

              Originally posted by lily23 View Post
              For one thing, Star Wars was at the height of its "mania" some twenty to thirty years ago. Yes, it's still really popular, but it doesn't have the freshness that Potter has. I think it would look like they are trying to do what Universal did with Potter, and they had to go back thirty years to find something as popular.
              30 years? Not really. Look at this Top 100 Box Office.

              Top 100 Domestic Gross (Unadjusted for Inflation)
              1.Avatar (2009)
              2.Titanic (1997)
              3.The Dark Knight (2008)
              4. Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (1977)
              5.Shrek 2 (2004)
              6. E. T. The Extra-Terrestrial (1982)
              7.Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999)
              8.Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (2006)
              9.Toy Story 3 (2010)
              10.Spider-Man (2002)
              11.Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (2009)
              12.Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005)
              13.The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
              14.Spider-Man 2 (2004)
              15.The Passion of the Christ (2004)
              16.Jurassic Park (1993)
              17.The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002)
              18.Finding Nemo (2003)
              19.Spider-Man 3 (2007)
              20.Alice in Wonderland (2010)
              21.Forrest Gump (1994)
              22.The Lion King (1994)
              23.Shrek the Third (2007)
              24.Transformers (2007)
              25.Iron Man (2008)
              26.Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (2001)
              27.Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008)
              28.The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)
              29.Iron Man 2 (2010)
              30.Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002)
              Ranked #7, Star Wars I was eleven years ago.
              Ranked #30, Star Wars II was nine years ago.
              Ranked #12, Star Wars III was six years ago.

              It's still very popular. The high definition Blu-Ray versions will be released shortly. There's talk about the 3D conversion.

              Star Wars 3 did better overall than the recent Alice In Wonderland and Iron Man 2.
              Last edited by StevenW; 01-20-2011, 10:31 AM.

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              • #8
                Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                Next Halloween take a look around. Star Wars is still a top property with today's kids. Its staying-power in pop culture has been unbelievable. Few things match it, and most of the things that do, Disney already owns. It's seriously underutilized in the parks. If they made better use of it, they'd tap into a market of repeat customers they aren't already getting. Star Wars weekends are OK, but the Hyperspace Hoopla isn't going to make fans want to come back like an immersive environment, more attractions, and (as I keep saying hoping someone will hear) a Mos Eisley cantina dining location.

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                • #9
                  Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                  Originally posted by StevenW View Post
                  30 years? Not really. Look at this Top 100 Box Office.



                  Ranked #7, Star Wars I was eleven years ago.
                  Ranked #30, Star Wars II was nine years ago.
                  Ranked #12, Star Wars III was six years ago.

                  It's still very popular. The high definition Blu-Ray versions will be released shortly. There's talk about the 3D conversion.

                  Star Wars 3 did better overall than the recent Alice In Wonderland and Iron Man 2.
                  I knew someone (probably many of you) would argue with me about this!!! Let me try to put it another way:

                  I'm pretty Old, and I remember quite well the mania over Star Wars when the first three movies came out. I remember the excitement when the second three movies came out. And I'm tellin' ya, it's just not the same. There was something intensely magical about those late '70s and '80s years (like there is about Potter today) and, in my humble opinion, the intensity of it has never been the same. I agree completely that Star Wars has had incredible staying power, appeal to new generations, and universal appeal; but the hysteria that existed decades ago isn't there anymore. Potter-hysteria is still current; it too will fade. "potter" and "star wars" are in two different stages of life.

                  More "star wars" stuff isn't a bad idea at all. I just think they shouldn't try to "copy" WWoHP. They could do Star Wars, and many other things, as above posters have described in detail.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                    Originally posted by lily23 View Post
                    I knew someone (probably many of you) would argue with me about this!!! Let me try to put it another way:

                    I'm pretty Old, and I remember quite well the mania over Star Wars when the first three movies came out. I remember the excitement when the second three movies came out. And I'm tellin' ya, it's just not the same. There was something intensely magical about those late '70s and '80s years (like there is about Potter today) and, in my humble opinion, the intensity of it has never been the same. I agree completely that Star Wars has had incredible staying power, appeal to new generations, and universal appeal; but the hysteria that existed decades ago isn't there anymore. Potter-hysteria is still current; it too will fade. "potter" and "star wars" are in two different stages of life.

                    More "star wars" stuff isn't a bad idea at all. I just think they shouldn't try to "copy" WWoHP. They could do Star Wars, and many other things, as above posters have described in detail.

                    OK, I don't disagree with this clarification. The Star Wars mania of the late 70s and early 80s was both more intense and more satisfying (yes, I was around for it too. Tiny, but I remember it.)

                    But here's the thing - that kind of mania always fades. Must fade. Nothing has held onto that kind of heat for long. Building a big theme park area based on a popular trend like that would be a terrible idea. These places need to last for decades to be worth the investment. Universal is gambling that Harry Potter is going to have lasting appeal. There is no way it will still be as hot as it is now in 30 years, but they have to be hoping it's still in the public's mind then.

                    Star Wars, while not the new hot thing it once was, is still very popular. That popularity now spreads out over generations of fans. Every indication is that this will remain a top moneymaking property for a long time to come. THAT's a sound investment for a theme park area, much moreso than whatever is the very hottest thing right this minute.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                      I don't think Disney has a franchise as big as Harry Potter to do a single land to compete just based off the franchise. I Sort of agree wtih Dusty that it needs to be major updates all over the resort. Give the fans so many reasons to stay at WDW that they can't go to USO. No ideas here as everyone has tons already, but the key hurting areas are: Epcot Future world needs udpates on all pavalions except for the living sea. World Showcase needs a major addition. Animal Kingdom needs a DCA isk expansion. THey have a good theme but are missing enough attractions to make it a full day park. Hollywood studios needs to update and expand on many of it's attractions that are based of franchises that are dead (Sounds Dangerous).

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                      • #12
                        Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                        I really dislike the idea of bringing Carsland to DHS but I think there would be plenty of potential for more Star Wars.

                        If they brought in Beastly Kingdom now, you KNOW it would clearly be seen as a "rip-off of Harry Potter."
                        -Hale (wumbology)

                        a.k.a. h2mc, omnimover.mousetalgia, omnimover, wumbology, hogbackmtn, hhmcsharry, Hale M., h2m, h2mc

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                        • #13
                          Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                          A Star Wars Land would be so awesome. With all the Lore that is out there it could be so awesome. Just imagine how awesome the catina could be

                          If the land was themed right you wouldn't even need a lot of rides to start with. Sure Harry Potter has three rides but two of them were just re-themed the real cream of the crop is the way the land is presented, and the one major ride which happens to rake place in a major landmark from the movies/books.
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                          DL 55th BDAY trip report
                          My company had a special night at the park
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                          NYE 2011 trip report
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                          • #14
                            Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                            Originally posted by wumbology View Post
                            If they brought in Beastly Kingdom now, you KNOW it would clearly be seen as a "rip-off of Harry Potter."
                            Then I will force the people who say that to learn their Disney History. Beastly Kingdom was planned to open with the Animal Kingdom - 1998. But Disney cheaped out and instead put Camp Minnie Mickey in it's place. 10 years before Harry Potter Land would open at Universal. Then Harry Potter would look like the rip off.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                              Originally posted by CaptainEO,ATIS View Post
                              Then I will force the people who say that to learn their Disney History. Beastly Kingdom was planned to open with the Animal Kingdom - 1998. But Disney cheaped out and instead put Camp Minnie Mickey in it's place. 10 years before Harry Potter Land would open at Universal. Then Harry Potter would look like the rip off.

                              We know that, but the majority of the public won't ever show up on Micechat for you to explain it to them. The boat as been missed.

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                              • #16
                                Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                                Originally posted by lily23 View Post
                                There was something intensely magical about those late '70s and '80s years (like there is about Potter today) and, in my humble opinion, the intensity of it has never been the same. I agree completely that Star Wars has had incredible staying power, appeal to new generations, and universal appeal; but the hysteria that existed decades ago isn't there anymore. Potter-hysteria is still current; it too will fade. "potter" and "star wars" are in two different stages of life.
                                What evidence of no Star Wars-hysteria? Have you not seen Comic-Con? Potter-hyteria is currently driven by the new books and new movies, but you have to realize that next year is the last for the movie series. Then they are in the same boat as Star Wars. There could be another trilogy for Star Wars. There are rumors this might happen with a new director.

                                People WILL flock to a new Star Wars Land. There are tons of evidence it can generate excitement. When Harry Potter land was built, there was no guarantee of results. How can anyone predict such a reaction? It happened because it was so well done. It became a must-see instantly.

                                Just like people will play Quidditch, people will play with light sabers. Look at what people done with the new Microsoft Kinect. Kinect lightsaber, and other inevitable milestones for the open-source robot eye (video) -- Engadget

                                People will create their own Star Wars dreams unless Disney gives it to them.

                                Don't forget, Legoland is getting Star Wars. They seem to think it is promising.

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                                • #17
                                  Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                                  For myself, I'm not a Harry Potter fan. I don't read the books, and I really don't care for the movies, which I've seen 4 and have not seen the remainder, yet I'm really curious about the new land in Universal. I will see it as a theme park attraction. I may even enjoy it unlike the movies, which I think is rather boring. I think a well done land can attract many patrons on its own merits. You can't think that every person visiting the Harry Potter attraction are fans of the books and movies. Many are not and are probably enjoying aspects of Harry Potter that seem very nice. There isn't even a Harry Potter character around for meet and greets. You're merely visiting a place that Harry once been to, as a premise!!

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                                  • #18
                                    Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                                    Originally posted by clockworkmonkey View Post
                                    OK, I don't disagree with this clarification. The Star Wars mania of the late 70s and early 80s was both more intense and more satisfying (yes, I was around for it too. Tiny, but I remember it.)

                                    But here's the thing - that kind of mania always fades. Must fade. Nothing has held onto that kind of heat for long. Building a big theme park area based on a popular trend like that would be a terrible idea. These places need to last for decades to be worth the investment. Universal is gambling that Harry Potter is going to have lasting appeal. There is no way it will still be as hot as it is now in 30 years, but they have to be hoping it's still in the public's mind then.
                                    I agree with this one hundred percent

                                    Originally posted by clockworkmonkey View Post
                                    Star Wars, while not the new hot thing it once was, is still very popular. That popularity now spreads out over generations of fans. Every indication is that this will remain a top moneymaking property for a long time to come. THAT's a sound investment for a theme park area, much moreso than whatever is the very hottest thing right this minute.


                                    Originally posted by StevenW View Post
                                    What evidence of no Star Wars-hysteria? Have you not seen Comic-Con? Potter-hyteria is currently driven by the new books and new movies, but you have to realize that next year is the last for the movie series. Then they are in the same boat as Star Wars. There could be another trilogy for Star Wars. There are rumors this might happen with a new director.

                                    People WILL flock to a new Star Wars Land. There are tons of evidence it can generate excitement. When Harry Potter land was built, there was no guarantee of results. How can anyone predict such a reaction? It happened because it was so well done. It became a must-see instantly.

                                    Just like people will play Quidditch, people will play with light sabers. Look at what people done with the new Microsoft Kinect. Kinect lightsaber, and other inevitable milestones for the open-source robot eye (video) -- Engadget

                                    People will create their own Star Wars dreams unless Disney gives it to them.

                                    Don't forget, Legoland is getting Star Wars. They seem to think it is promising.
                                    Hmm.... First, I'm not saying no star wars hysteria...I'm saying that the level of intensity and presence in pop culture is not what it was in the late seventies and eighties. If indeed more movies are coming, that could go a long way towards re-invigorating the franchise. I have a perception that the current young generation of Star Wars Fans were introduced to Star Wars by their parents, who grew up in the hey-dey of Star Wars mania; I do question if it's not the beginning of the end for Star Wars at this point, as I don't think the new generation has the same level of enthusiasm that the previous generation did. It's a different world now, with Wii, cell-phones, blockbusters like Avatar, the whole Harry Potter thing... back then it was Star Wars, Star Wars, Star Wars. It was utterly revolutionary, nothing like it had been done before. Still incredibly popular, yes. How long can that go on? Time will tell

                                    Originally posted by StevenW View Post
                                    For myself, I'm not a Harry Potter fan. I don't read the books, and I really don't care for the movies, which I've seen 4 and have not seen the remainder, yet I'm really curious about the new land in Universal. I will see it as a theme park attraction. I may even enjoy it unlike the movies, which I think is rather boring. I think a well done land can attract many patrons on its own merits. You can't think that every person visiting the Harry Potter attraction are fans of the books and movies. Many are not and are probably enjoying aspects of Harry Potter that seem very nice. There isn't even a Harry Potter character around for meet and greets. You're merely visiting a place that Harry once been to, as a premise!!
                                    This is something I have been very curious about. I wonder what you will think when you see it. I am a huge fan of the books (not the films), and I delighted in seeing elements from the books "in the flesh". But I've got to wonder: if you don't know (or care) what butter beer is, or dementors, or the sorting hat, or pygmie puffs, or chocolate frogs, or mandrakes, or prefects, or Olivanders, Zonkos, Honeydukes, and the Three Broomsticks, or the penseive, etc etc etc, I would think you would say, "ok, this is nice enough, but what's all the fuss?" What was cool to me was actually being at Hogwarts, actually being in Hogsmeade, actually "living" in the real world what had been so real in my mind. If I hadn't read and loved the books, I don't think it would have meant much to me.

                                    Same goes for Star Wars, really, You're either into Star Wars, or you're not. You're either into Harry Potter, or you're not. A staggering number of people belong to the former category. What kind of staying power will these franchises have over the next twenty years? Time will tell...

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                                    • #19
                                      Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                                      Originally posted by clockworkmonkey View Post
                                      We know that, but the majority of the public won't ever show up on Micechat for you to explain it to them. The boat as been missed.
                                      I agree with this assessment. Regardless of the history behind the Beastly Kingdom, Disney sat on the project for too long, and Universal beat them to the punch. If Disney built it today, the average park goer would only see it as a blatant rip-off of Potter. It's sad, but true.

                                      I think Star Wars or Indy Jones would make good franchise tie-ins, but more than anything, I would love to see Disney work out a deal to bring the world of Pandora from Avatar to life. With all of the amazing landscapes and mythos that exist in this film, the possibilities for amazing environments and attractions are endless. Also, with two sequels in pre-production, this franchise is just getting started! Pandora at Disney's Animal Kingdom could be incredible!
                                      In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate.

                                      DoppelV

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                                      • #20
                                        Re: Ideas on how WDW can compete w/ Potter (Star Wars?)

                                        Hmm.... First, I'm not saying no star wars hysteria...I'm saying that the level of intensity and presence in pop culture is not what it was in the late seventies and eighties.
                                        Yet you said "There was something intensely magical about those late '70s and '80s years (like there is about Potter today)"

                                        Nevermind. Let me try to attack what you meant to be saying.

                                        I happen to think the hysteria is very much what it was in the past as it is currently. Besides, how do you measure the level of hysteria? Eventually, everything will fade, but not necessarily. For Star Wars, I can't believe it is still going it. I still can't believe the level of interest for The Beatles, Elvis Presley, and now Michael Jackson via Captain EO. Everything old is new again.

                                        As for the aspects of Harry Potter that I may or not be aware... I know nothing of Butter Beer, or
                                        or dementors, or the sorting hat, or pygmie puffs, or chocolate frogs, or mandrakes, or prefects, or Olivanders, Zonkos, Honeydukes, and the Three Broomsticks, or the penseive, etc etc etc,
                                        These things are very obscure for me. I have no interest in them except for their Hogsmeade environment where everything is available to be seen. Hogsmeade certainly seems quaint as store fronts. I happen to think the school outfits are rather cute. Funny how this school gets the kids interested in learning about a fantasy village. I may grow to like Harry Potter from the theme park.

                                        A better comparison is "Lord of the Rings". The book is virtually impossible to read. I found great difficulty in figuring it out and sort of stopped with it. Eventually from the movies, I realized the story apart from the details. I became a fan from the narrative of the movie.

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