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  • News Monorail beam damage

    File this under reasons why I will NOT ride the monorail until there is a full scale refurbishment.

    Overnight the monorail beams between the Grand Floridian Resort and the Magic Kingdom suffered some sort of damage that is causing monorail delays. Cast members are saying a beam joint was damaged by the extremely low temperatures. This is forcing the monorails to slow to a crawl as they cross that section of the route, reducing capacity and slowing service times. During peak periods of guest travel, this means increased waits at all stops on the Magic Kingdom Resort and Express lines. The Epcot line is running as normal.
    Currently no timeline has been given for the repairs to be made and for service to return to normal.
    Magic Kingdom Monorails at Reduced Capacity Due to Beam Damage - TouringPlans.com Blog | TouringPlans.com Blog

    After witnessing countless monorail outages, reduced capacity, etc, I will not be riding the MK/Resort Line monorail anytime in near future.
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  • #2
    Re: Monorail beam damage

    TDO's maintenance budget cuts strike again.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Monorail beam damage

      This seems to be more related to the weather than anything that could actually be prevented by greater maintenance.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Monorail beam damage

        But....but... we're getting magical modern video games and screens in queues that are already themed!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Monorail beam damage

          Supposedly the reason for no monorail service during EMH is so that they can increase the maintenance on the beams... Does anyone know if that's actually happening?
          I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
          -Walt Disney

          sigpic

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          • #6
            Re: Monorail beam damage

            After some of the recent trip reports here, I figured Disney was getting their ducks in a row and cleaning up their parks. This is so sad.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Monorail beam damage

              Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
              Supposedly the reason for no monorail service during EMH is so that they can increase the maintenance on the beams... Does anyone know if that's actually happening?
              According to insiders after the change was made - yes.

              I think this story is simply the microscope on monorails... It's the equivalent of 24/7 news harping the littlest things as news.

              This isn't lack of upkeep, it's not bad maintanence, it's not something dramatic. It's reduced speed over certain joints to prevent greater damage/wear on the trains due to weather instigated movement in the expansion joints.
              Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


              Am I evil? yes, I am
              Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

              Originally posted by sleepyjeff
              Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Monorail beam damage

                Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                According to insiders after the change was made - yes.

                I think this story is simply the microscope on monorails... It's the equivalent of 24/7 news harping the littlest things as news.

                This isn't lack of upkeep, it's not bad maintanence, it's not something dramatic. It's reduced speed over certain joints to prevent greater damage/wear on the trains due to weather instigated movement in the expansion joints.
                totally agree here. this is not something that could have been controlled, these things just happen. making mountains out of molehills

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Monorail beam damage

                  Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                  According to insiders after the change was made - yes.

                  I think this story is simply the microscope on monorails... It's the equivalent of 24/7 news harping the littlest things as news.

                  This isn't lack of upkeep, it's not bad maintanence, it's not something dramatic. It's reduced speed over certain joints to prevent greater damage/wear on the trains due to weather instigated movement in the expansion joints.
                  Thankfully this was a little problem, but what if it wasn't? Imagine if the cold temp's lead to a more severe problem that lead to the Resort, Express, or both lines being down for days or longer?

                  Little problem, or large problem, it's enough to call maintenance into question if temperatures alone can be a threat like this.

                  "Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." -- James 3:13

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Monorail beam damage

                    Originally posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
                    Thankfully this was a little problem, but what if it wasn't? Imagine if the cold temp's lead to a more severe problem that lead to the Resort, Express, or both lines being down for days or longer?

                    Little problem, or large problem, it's enough to call maintenance into question if temperatures alone can be a threat like this.
                    This is insane.

                    What are we basing the 'severity' of this situation over? ONE BLOG POST who reported the situation.. using terms like 'damage' which there has been no prove of to start with.

                    You make the assumption that this is something NEW and new risk. It's not. And it's a bellweather of something else. It's not.

                    It's like saying 'yeah, today its only a pothole in the highway, but it's enough to call maintenance into question if temperatures alone can be a threat like this' - a comment that ignores potholes are regular occurences that are addressed when they happen and simply because they happen, we don't say the entire system is at risk for some larger catastrophic event because a pothole appeared.

                    This is what people mean when people say 'You cant handle the truth'. People overreacting when they see the grity details of how things always are vs what they thought they were.
                    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                    Am I evil? yes, I am
                    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                    Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Monorail beam damage

                      Originally posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
                      Thankfully this was a little problem, but what if it wasn't? Imagine if the cold temp's lead to a more severe problem that lead to the Resort, Express, or both lines being down for days or longer?

                      Little problem, or large problem, it's enough to call maintenance into question if temperatures alone can be a threat like this.
                      It's an issue of materiality, not maintenance. Disney cannot control the physical properties of concrete.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Monorail beam damage

                        Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                        This is insane.

                        What are we basing the 'severity' of this situation over? ONE BLOG POST who reported the situation.. using terms like 'damage' which there has been no prove of to start with.

                        You make the assumption that this is something NEW and new risk. It's not. And it's a bellweather of something else. It's not.

                        It's like saying 'yeah, today its only a pothole in the highway, but it's enough to call maintenance into question if temperatures alone can be a threat like this' - a comment that ignores potholes are regular occurences that are addressed when they happen and simply because they happen, we don't say the entire system is at risk for some larger catastrophic event because a pothole appeared.

                        This is what people mean when people say 'You cant handle the truth'. People overreacting when they see the grity details of how things always are vs what they thought they were.
                        Holy hyperbole Batman. I haven't assumed one darn thing, and I'll thank you to not paint me with this sort of a broad-brush in the future. You're making apples to oranges comparisons and being far too dismissive. What was the point of bringing up that this is based on a blog post? With that logic, we're all wasting our time here, including you.

                        First off, maintenance should ALWAYS be accountable to whatever takes place. Always. Little problems, or big problems, they're problems. Problems have causes. WDW's monorail system was last 'modernized' in 1991 - 21 years ago. The system is OLD. It's weak. You want to dismiss this as a 'pothole' in the road, but how many drivers would dismiss the pothole if they were required to slow to 15mph in order to safely make it over it? Thankfully this is a relatively little problem, but it should raise at least one eyebrow about the susceptibility of this old system on which so much of the guest experience depends upon. If that's insane, call the men in white coats and put me in the padded room.

                        It's an issue of materiality, not maintenance. Disney cannot control the physical properties of concrete.
                        No, but they can control the age of the concrete that's out there vulnerable to the elements. They're skating on thin ice with this monorail system they refuse to do what they should with, but rake in super-ultra premiums for offering.

                        "Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." -- James 3:13

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Monorail beam damage

                          If you live in a snowy climate, you can see first hand what temperature can do to concrete. for example, Frost heaves.

                          I don't think this is a time to start bashing the crap out of TDO. I agree, I'm not a fan, but to start bashing them for a reason out of their control is kind of rude and uncalled for.
                          DisneyTwins
                          Since May 2003

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Monorail beam damage

                            Originally posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
                            Holy hyperbole Batman. I haven't assumed one darn thing, and I'll thank you to not paint me with this sort of a broad-brush in the future. You're making apples to oranges comparisons and being far too dismissive. What was the point of bringing up that this is based on a blog post? With that logic, we're all wasting our time here, including you.
                            The only reference to 'damage' is in the title of the blog post... in which they do not state any damage, nor has anyone else. The only 'damage' involved in the whole story is Disney AVOIDING damage by altering normal driving conditions in the impacted area. This whole story is premised on a blog post that doesn't even know if this is normal expected behavior or not.

                            People are also acting like this is something NEW and jumping to the conclusion this is due to lack of maintenance. And making it even worse, you make the long jump to saying because this is here, imagine what else can happen.

                            Originally posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
                            First off, maintenance should ALWAYS be accountable to whatever takes place. Always. Little problems, or big problems, they're problems. Problems have causes
                            It's not always effective to build a system that can never fail in anyway. It's far more effective to build to a reasonable standard, which includes keeping failures from causing significant damage or harm riders.

                            Or keeping it within the monorail... tires fail... air hoses fail. It doesn't matter that you have normal inspections and preventative maintenance, it's still a possible outcome. But when these conditions occur, we all don't start going <drama>'OMG, if a tire can blow, just imagine what else could happen' </drama>

                            Originally posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
                            You want to dismiss this as a 'pothole' in the road, but how many drivers would dismiss the pothole if they were required to slow to 15mph in order to safely make it over it?
                            Maybe you aren't familiar with potholes... but that's exactly what you must do. Unless you don't care about blowouts or denting your rims.

                            Originally posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
                            Thankfully this is a relatively little problem, but it should raise at least one eyebrow about the susceptibility of this old system on which so much of the guest experience depends upon. If that's insane, call the men in white coats and put me in the padded room.
                            So you think anytime there is a condition that impacts service we should automatically start questioning if they know what they are doing? How do you feel comfortable riding anything in the parks.. you know they have 'relatively little problems' expected from the ride's design every week.. and we don't start 'raising eyebrows' everywhere.
                            Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                            Am I evil? yes, I am
                            Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                            Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                            Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Monorail beam damage

                              Originally posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
                              Holy hyperbole Batman. I haven't assumed one darn thing, and I'll thank you to not paint me with this sort of a broad-brush in the future. You're making apples to oranges comparisons and being far too dismissive. What was the point of bringing up that this is based on a blog post? With that logic, we're all wasting our time here, including you.

                              First off, maintenance should ALWAYS be accountable to whatever takes place. Always. Little problems, or big problems, they're problems. Problems have causes. WDW's monorail system was last 'modernized' in 1991 - 21 years ago. The system is OLD. It's weak. You want to dismiss this as a 'pothole' in the road, but how many drivers would dismiss the pothole if they were required to slow to 15mph in order to safely make it over it? Thankfully this is a relatively little problem, but it should raise at least one eyebrow about the susceptibility of this old system on which so much of the guest experience depends upon. If that's insane, call the men in white coats and put me in the padded room.



                              No, but they can control the age of the concrete that's out there vulnerable to the elements. They're skating on thin ice with this monorail system they refuse to do what they should with, but rake in super-ultra premiums for offering.
                              It doesn't mean that this system is 21 years old, doesn't mean it's weak. It's worked much much better than Disneyland's which has a more up-to-date system. It works fine, why should they change it? It's not maintenance's fault that the tropical weather decided not to show up. They built this system to work in a tropical climate. If that tropical climate goes away, problems happen because the equipment is not used to that dramatic change in temperature. Do you think it's wise that they all of a sudden say "Well, we know that we are going to have cold temps on this day, we need complete upgrade of everything immedately"
                              DisneyTwins
                              Since May 2003

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Re: Monorail beam damage

                                Originally posted by disneytwins View Post
                                they built this system to work in a tropical climate. If that tropical climate goes away, problems happen because the equipment is not used to that dramatic change in temperature. Do you think it's wise that they all of a sudden say "well, we know that we are going to have cold temps on this day, we need complete upgrade of everything immedately"
                                OV-099.


                                fwiw
                                Waiting for Godot Micechat.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Re: Monorail beam damage

                                  I think the problem with OV-099 is more "Strapping solid rockets to a manned ship is stupid". Look, this is concrete. It's not like a swing of 50 degrees is going to make it melt or something.

                                  I think why people freak out is that the expect more from Disney. Regardless of what the suits would have you believe, owning and operating monorails is an integral part of what Disney does. That said, there's no reason they can't apply the proper resources to do it correctly. *ESPECIALLY* when it's pitched as a reason stay in a deluxe resort.

                                  Personally, I knew Disney was full of it when they threw up their hands and GAVE UP expanding the system. Yeah, I know *all* the rationalizations. And yet somehow, when you sell Magic, the excuses don't really seem like more than just an excuse.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Re: Monorail beam damage

                                    and after one of the warmest winters in recent years with only one really cold night a few nights ago.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Re: Monorail beam damage

                                      Why are we arguing over this? I mean the temp changed, mother nature pulled a fast one.

                                      The monorail runs effectively and fine as is. I have Never heard a guest say that this company has given up because they didn't expand or upgrade their systems.

                                      Give proper resources to do what correctly?
                                      DisneyTwins
                                      Since May 2003

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Re: Monorail beam damage

                                        Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                                        The only reference to 'damage' is in the title of the blog post... in which they do not state any damage, nor has anyone else. The only 'damage' involved in the whole story is Disney AVOIDING damage by altering normal driving conditions in the impacted area. This whole story is premised on a blog post that doesn't even know if this is normal expected behavior or not.
                                        Sorry flynn, but re-read this from the first post.

                                        Overnight the monorail beams between the Grand Floridian Resort and the Magic Kingdom suffered some sort of damage that is causing monorail delays. Cast members are saying a beam joint was damaged by the extremely low temperatures. This is forcing the monorails to slow to a crawl as they cross that section of the route, reducing capacity and slowing service times. During peak periods of guest travel, this means increased waits at all stops on the Magic Kingdom Resort and Express lines.
                                        So because of this damage to a beam joint, the monorails must go very slowly over it. This is a problem. Problems have causes. Cold temps caused the problem, so the article states.

                                        Now this is just me, but whenever a problem happens, after I find the cause, I always ask why the cause took place. That's where I'd ask the maintenance team why the beam was susceptible to the cold temperatures. This was hardly the first 30 degree night in FL's history. (For what it's worth, I was there for the cold temps that Saturday night.) So I'd ask them what gives, and what can be done to prevent it in the future. I don't think that's insane, or unreasonable.

                                        People are also acting like this is something NEW and jumping to the conclusion this is due to lack of maintenance. And making it even worse, you make the long jump to saying because this is here, imagine what else can happen.
                                        So much rides on the health & proper function of the monorail system that Disney should be concerned about each & every failure the system incurs. In that regard, Disney ought be taking all possible preventive measures to prevent failures. But they don't because they choose to have a lesser standard, and don't really mind it when catastrophes happen that take the monorail system completely out of service, forcing guests to wait hours for the ferries, as long as it doesn't happen too often. One day the system will be too old for that to be an option. Then what?


                                        It's not always effective to build a system that can never fail in anyway. It's far more effective to build to a reasonable standard, which includes keeping failures from causing significant damage or harm riders.
                                        Well it's good that there's room in the budget for safety concerns *cough* Pressler *cough* but what about the guest service side of things? With the premiums WDW rakes in at an awe-inspiring rate for the MK Resorts, along with being able to tout transportation via Monorail, there's no reason Disney can't give the WDW Monorail System the kind of refurbishment & restoration that it needs. The Mark IV's only ran on Epcot's line for less than a decade. The Mark VI's have operated for more than twice that, with no plan to replace them in the works. If they're not careful, this will blow up in their faces.

                                        Or keeping it within the monorail... tires fail... air hoses fail. It doesn't matter that you have normal inspections and preventative maintenance, it's still a possible outcome. But when these conditions occur, we all don't start going <drama>'OMG, if a tire can blow, just imagine what else could happen' </drama>
                                        Those tires are inspected daily, are they not? Why does that happen? Failures should be taken seriously, but ideally there shouldn't be failures at all. Even though there will never be the indestructible system, failures should always be viewed as preventable problems.

                                        Maybe you aren't familiar with potholes... but that's exactly what you must do. Unless you don't care about blowouts or denting your rims.
                                        Try driving on the freeways in CA. If we slowed to 15mph for every pothole, we'd never get anywhere. There's so much patchwork on the roads now that it's laughable. We're basically forced to risk damage, or become a dangerous obstacle.

                                        So you think anytime there is a condition that impacts service we should automatically start questioning if they know what they are doing? How do you feel comfortable riding anything in the parks.. you know they have 'relatively little problems' expected from the ride's design every week.. and we don't start 'raising eyebrows' everywhere.
                                        I would raise an eyebrow if the problem was dismissed and not being addressed, as you seem to want to do.

                                        Really all I was saying was that this should be a small illumination of the larger problem of the age of the system. As the system gets older, failures will become more frequent. Hopefully they don't wait until a catastrophic failure paralyzes the system, and the only solution is the large refurb/replacement project that they've been putting off, but that's exactly what is invited whenever a problem like this is glossed over.

                                        Originally posted by Disneytwins View Post
                                        It doesn't mean that this system is 21 years old, doesn't mean it's weak. It's worked much much better than Disneyland's which has a more up-to-date system. It works fine, why should they change it? It's not maintenance's fault that the tropical weather decided not to show up. They built this system to work in a tropical climate. If that tropical climate goes away, problems happen because the equipment is not used to that dramatic change in temperature. Do you think it's wise that they all of a sudden say "Well, we know that we are going to have cold temps on this day, we need complete upgrade of everything immedately"
                                        Again, this was not the first sub 40 degree night in FL's history. While they are rare, the ability to damage the system should be a measure of concern, same as any other possible cause of damage, especially age.

                                        Are you still driving a 1991 model car? No? Why not?

                                        By the way, the biggest spenders of Disneyland are not dependent on the monorail system for access to the theme parks. Guests of the Grand Californian have their own entrance to DCA, and a short walk to Disneyland's gates. The stakes are slightly less. That said, even Disneyland knew the time to replace the Mark V's had finally come. But even so, the Mark VII's do not have air conditioning. Only 2 trains operate on the loop at most. I wouldn't call that a more up-to-date system.

                                        I just don't understand why TDO is content to keep rolling the dice with their monorail system when so much depends on it. The monorails are a huge perk for the Resort's biggest spenders, and are responsible for transporting the vast majority of guests using the MK's parking lot to/from MK. Why would you ever knowingly invite failure?

                                        "Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." -- James 3:13

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