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  • RandySavage
    started a topic [Other] Dinoland Reborn

    Dinoland Reborn

    For the next entry in my Wishful-Thinking-Birds-Eye-Illustration series (previous entry Tokyo Fantasyland viewable below), I decided to tackle Animal Kingdom’s Dinoland. This is an area with great potential but in need of some serious work (IMO) to fulfill it. Here is my illustration of a Dinoland Reborn:


    The most visible change is the replacement of DinoRama with an area dedicated to the Pleistocene and featuring a glacial lake and giant jagged rock formations. The major experience here is Mammoth Falls. Designed to both educate & thrill (and experience-driven rather than plot-driven), this E-ticket flume extends the “Extinct Animals” section of DAK beyond dinosaurs. Guests travel back to a meticulously recreated North America of 10,000 years ago: an age when primitive man co-existed with giant mammals.


    The experience begins in the queue, a soggy pine & birch forest, at the close of the Ice Age. Entering a cavern, adventurers hear the sounds of giant beasts and come upon a large room covered in cave paintings (Lascaux). The paintings become animated as a Shaman-like voice describes the natural world of this era.

    Boarding giant tree snags (at least 4-riders wide, with four or five rows), guests then experience scene after scene of pre-historic wonders… escalating in scale, detail and terror, until the climactic 50-foot plunge. The ride portion starts with peaceful mastodons and a family of American Lions, then passes a Dire Wolf attack on a Giant Elk, a Mammoth herd, giant ground sloths, etc. As the boats rise to the final drop, guests pass the new apex predator – man – as a primitive hunting party plans an attack on a weary mammoth. The final scene reflects the extinction of the megafauna and their replacement with mid-sized mammals we know today (deer, black bear, etc.).


    ***
    The Triceratop Spin is re-themed to compliment Mammoth Falls: an aerial spinner based on the giant extinct birds (like the predecessor to the California condor). Its queue is within the rocky cave-nest of such a bird.


    ***
    The final major change is to Dinosaur. Any connections to the Dinosaur film are discarded, including the ride name (note the removal of Aladar and return of the original Styracosaurus statue to the plaza).


    I feel Period is always easier to sell and maintain in themed design than Present (and often more compelling), so this attraction (and the land as a whole) is set in mid-20th century America (Golden Age of Palentology?).

    Gone is the mundane, postmodern, low-rise Dino Institute (and signage) that exists now. It is replaced with a gothic, multi-turreted, brick museum building intended to evoke a stuffy Smithsonian or AMNH.



    Inside are dusty, old-fashioned dinosaur exhibits, and the pre-show would take place in the fossil preparation laboratory. Secret book-case doors (because who doesn’t love those) would then open leading to the Time Travel sub-level, full of 1950’s style scientific equipment and re-designed rovers for a re-designed adventure (following the same path).

    ***


    Thoughts?
    Last edited by RandySavage; 02-21-2012, 11:41 PM.

  • FigmentJedi
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Originally posted by toonaspie View Post
    Pixar is doing its own dinosaur movie that'll come out in 2014. If the film turns out to be good, I won't be surprised if Dinoland finally gets its makeover then.
    I hope not. The whole area hinges on dinosaurs generally being accepted as extinct. You can't just copypaste The Good Dinosaur into the area and call it a day. For it to exist in Dinoland, you'd have to get rid of everything to work with that movie's internal logic of living dinosaurs being an every day part of life. Why do you need to invent time travel to go to the age of dinosaurs? Why would digging up dead dinosaurs be a big deal when you got living ones? Are Chester and Hester qualified to take care of living dinosaurs or did they finally get eaten when they tried making money off a carnivore petting zoo?

    The idea of shifting CTX/Dinosaur to a Lost World style story is fine because though dinosaurs are alive in the present day, they are isolated in some remote place man has hardly tread upon and should probably leave alone, which would fit in fine with some of the park's existing themes. However, a show based on the Good Dinosaur would be a nice replacement to the Nemo Musical so Theatre of the Wild could finally actually fit into Dinoland.

    Leave a comment:


  • toonaspie
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Originally posted by FigmentJedi View Post
    You know, Dinosaur movie or not, I do think the whole Iguanadon rescue story of Countdown to Extinction was a good idea for a dinosaur attraction. It's a rather fitting choice for a dinosaur to rescue being one of the first ones discovered.
    Pixar is doing its own dinosaur movie that'll come out in 2014. If the film turns out to be good, I won't be surprised if Dinoland finally gets its makeover then.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ghosthost2012
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Great idea! I really like the ideas for theming. I like the idea of a slow AA ride as opposed to a flume ride. Maybe they could use the jeep vehicles from Dinosaur, but make the ride much slower paced, like the beginning of Jurassic Park at Universal. It would be cool to see what Disney could do with other periods of time, like the Ice Age.

    Leave a comment:


  • nish221
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Originally posted by FigmentJedi View Post
    Could go a little further with the caves and just make them a gateway to Pellucidar from various Edgar Rice Burroughs books or some other kind of Lost World.
    Ooh! I like that!

    Leave a comment:


  • FigmentJedi
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Could go a little further with the caves and just make them a gateway to Pellucidar from various Edgar Rice Burroughs books or some other kind of Lost World.

    Leave a comment:


  • nish221
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    My two cents, Randy...
    • First of all wonderful concept & art work.
    • I think one of the things that makes Indy so beloved esp. compared to Dinosaur is the repeatability. I think one way to do that would be to give scanners (ala BLAB) to all the riders and put hidden sensors on all the dinosaurs. (Of course, tone down the bumpiness at certain parts to compensate). Seat & car number prominently displayed and each person's photo along w/ their "scanned" dinos. Will need to think about the seating arrangement... maybe some seats facing backwards?
    • Mimicking other parts of DAK I would create a walkthrough containing animals that haven't changed since this era. I would interweave it with the water ride. Definitely dump the spinner.
    • I think the mythos for the new area is that Samuel Hightower has discovered a mysterious set of caves that are acting as time portals. Of course, he built a museum over the one to the Cretaceous Period.

    Leave a comment:


  • tl77
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    This all sounds great, Dino Land really needs a more cohesive theme, and you're exactly right "a period theme is a lot easier to maintain and a lot more compelling". I always felt the that the main problem with Dino Land is it really doesn't fit in with the ancient and primitive feel of the rest of Animal Kingdom, but the Victorian, H.G Wells type time machine for "Countdown to Extinction/Dinosaur" would be perfect, and that Chester and Hester thing has really got to go, "ironically tacky" still looks tacky, put that Mammoth flume in immediately

    I was thinking if the ever got back around to the Beastly Kingdom concept of "Myths and Legends" they should lose the "medieval" theme and go with something a reality based. I would love to see a Epcot type ride through a "Crypto-zoological Zoo" of in a 19th century style building, something similar to the Philadelphia Zoo which was built in 1876, you should check out some of that architecture and signage

    Leave a comment:


  • MerlinTheGoat
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Yeah, that's what i was going for. I miss the age of long detailed sets and huge quantities of animatronic figures, ala Horizons, SSE, or World of Motion.

    I wouldn't say no to a bigger scale log flume, but i'd probably place it elsewhere and theme it to something else. I feel in this area, there's already a thrill ride in the form of Dinosaur, so if i were in charge, i'd balance it out with a somewhat calmer (but still massive scale) ride. A couple of minor POTC-like drops probably wouldn't bother anyone and would be a good way to descend into different rooms logically.

    I'd place a major flume elsewhere in the park. I always had an idea of a Jungle Book flume, themed outwardly to that of an Indian temple that looks like King Louie's temple. Has a lot of potential for gorgeous scenery-
    http://dettoldisney.files.wordpress....nnacoleman.jpg

    For something like a river ride through the history of past life though, i feel it should be neutral and character-less. And as Dinosaur is right next dor, not much of a huge thrill factor, just the right balance of some minor drops and well-designed sets and animatronics. I feel the ride should remain rather quiet, and the music and sound effects should have an ambient nature. Just let guests take in and enjoy everything.

    I admit to having a certain level of bias towards old style Epcot rides full of tons of animatronics. My mom especially misses rides like that. She's older and doesn't like thrilling jerky rides like Dinosaur or Everest (Big Thunder is the only coaster she'll go on). She was very disappointed when Epcot rid itself of WoM and Horizons, and basically ruined Imagination. So there's far less for her to enjoy there, and even less tolerable rides for her in Animal Kingdom. I'd try to appeal more to people who just love a well-designed and themed ride experience, and less on thrills and chills. I think AK has enough thrills and too little slower paced rides.

    Leave a comment:


  • RandySavage
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Originally posted by MerlinTheGoat View Post
    Love the designs, especially for the new facade of Dinosaur and the ideas behind it. It already has a museum feel to it, expanding that would be ideal. Dinorama is a huge waste of space, i figure everyone would agree it needs to go. Prime real estate just waiting for some incredible E Ticket indoor boat ride. Though i say do away with any semblance of spinners or carnival rides completely. WDW has enough of those already.

    I like your idea, i had a similar one that wasn't just exclusive to mammoths and such. A ride with a few minor drops ala the ones in the Pirates of the Caribbean, instead of huge thrilling ones like Splash Mountain. I feel Animal Kingdom needs some slower paced more atmospheric rides. It has a lot of thrilling rides, but very few calmer and quiet ones. It would be nice to get a really intelligent mild style ride that doesn't appeal solely to little kids, but to anyone of any age.

    My idea would call for a several story tall show building, and would encompass more ages than just a specific one with a certain species. More like the entire spectrum of prehistoric creatures throughout several points in history. You make your ascent up the rather large lift hill, which is your boat going back through the river of time. You start at the top floor, showing the early ages of the world as the first lifeforms started appearing and the earth was in its primal form. As you complete this floor, you get your first of several drops. Then you enter the next age, showing dinosaurs and early mammals. For these early ages, i'd invision it being rather dark and misty, lots of vegetation. Would take ideas from the dinosaur segment in Universe of Energy.

    After this floor is up, next drop would commence to another skip in time. Probably around the ice age, have Mammoths and such creatures from that period in time. Would be colder and filled with a lot of snow. We'd see the first glimpses of human beings here as well.

    After the last drop, it sends you back to the present age where you're traveling along a river briefly to see various fossils of the creatures we saw earlier. The ride ends shortly after.

    I think i'd name the entire Dinoland area "Prehistoria", just a celebration of any past species of animals, not just dinos.
    An EPCOT-style AA ride on the history of life... I really like that idea. And AK is sorely lacking a long, indoor, all-ages ride of that sort.

    Leave a comment:


  • MerlinTheGoat
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Love the designs, especially for the new facade of Dinosaur and the ideas behind it. It already has a museum feel to it, expanding that would be ideal. Dinorama is a huge waste of space, i figure everyone would agree it needs to go. Prime real estate just waiting for some incredible E Ticket indoor boat ride. Though i say do away with any semblance of spinners or carnival rides completely. WDW has enough of those already.

    I like your idea, i had a similar one that wasn't just exclusive to mammoths and such. A ride with a few minor drops ala the ones in the Pirates of the Caribbean, instead of huge thrilling ones like Splash Mountain. I feel Animal Kingdom needs some slower paced more atmospheric rides. It has a lot of thrilling rides, but very few calmer and quiet ones. It would be nice to get a really intelligent mild style ride that doesn't appeal solely to little kids, but to anyone of any age.

    My idea would call for a several story tall show building, and would encompass more ages than just a specific one with a certain species. More like the entire spectrum of prehistoric creatures throughout several points in history. You make your ascent up the rather large lift hill, which is your boat going back through the river of time. You start at the top floor, showing the early ages of the world as the first lifeforms started appearing and the earth was in its primal form. As you complete this floor, you get your first of several drops. Then you enter the next age, showing dinosaurs and early mammals. For these early ages, i'd invision it being rather dark and misty, lots of vegetation. Would take ideas from the dinosaur segment in Universe of Energy.

    After this floor is up, next drop would commence to another skip in time. Probably around the ice age, have Mammoths and such creatures from that period in time. Would be colder and filled with a lot of snow. We'd see the first glimpses of human beings here as well.

    After the last drop, it sends you back to the present age where you're traveling along a river briefly to see various fossils of the creatures we saw earlier. The ride ends shortly after.

    I think i'd name the entire Dinoland area "Prehistoria", just a celebration of any past species of animals, not just dinos.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bronco21
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Originally posted by Twist1234 View Post
    Ugh I'm sorry but I'm tired of all the over explanation of things, do they ever explain in Space Mountain how you got into space (I mean before the whole Tomorrowland = city of the future refurb). Yes the script is rather awful but overexplaning everything doesn't make for a good experience.

    Makes sense.
    I agree! Dinosaur would be so much better even without the preshow because the preshow just makes me realize that this ride (and park for that matter) was Disney's next big thing that could have been amazing (dont get me wrong i love the park but it just isnt as good as it should have been especially Dinoland) but they tried too hard and it failed IMO. I love the idea of ripping out everything but CTX, the spinner, and the restaurant and starting over. The carvnival theme was illconcieved no matter how much work WDI put into the backstory. It looks cheap at first glance and it continues to look cheap.

    Leave a comment:


  • Twist1234
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Originally posted by RandySavage View Post
    As with everything, it would depend on execution. If an attraction stands on its own then I don't think it matters too much if there is something similar at the cross-town park. I've seen it mentioned that Beastly Kingdomme is off the table because of what was built at IOA, and I don't agree with that mindset. Pleistocene mammals are fascinating to me, moreso than dinosaurs, because these animals were not only huge and numerous but lived side by side with human beings (until we killed them off). And many of their relatives are alive today, so they're relatable yet exotic (an readily transferable to the Audio-Animatronic medium).

    My frustration CTX/Dinosaur from the beginning is this: All the difficult, expensive pieces (ride system, animatronics, special effects) were in place to make an attraction that should have been even better than Indiana Jones Adventure. But on the less-technical, less-expensive parts - the pre-show set-up and ride scripts - the designers (specifically the show-writers) dropped the ball.

    1. The crux of the whole adventure, time travel, is brushed off with "How? That's proprietary." It's the laziest setup and ought to be better explained in queue/pre-show scenes to help narrow the chasm of disbelief one must cross in this experience.
    Ugh I'm sorry but I'm tired of all the over explanation of things, do they ever explain in Space Mountain how you got into space (I mean before the whole Tomorrowland = city of the future refurb). Yes the script is rather awful but overexplaning everything doesn't make for a good experience.
    Whenever theme park's use present-day, it soon looks dated & tired (fashion, technology, hair-dos) and needs replacing (e.g. the big boxy televisions in some of the older Universal/Disney queues). But if you use an old-fashioned film reel projector to show a kitschy 1950s-style pre-show scene (in Dinosaur), you can avoid that.
    Makes sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • RandySavage
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Originally posted by goofy donald View Post
    the only other qualm i could think of is your invading pretty close on universals turf with the new flume ride dont you think? i mean granted its slightly different material on the surface but its extremely similar in execution. i just think that if disney were to do this some could argue they would merely be attempting to copy the studios.
    As with everything, it would depend on execution. If an attraction stands on its own then I don't think it matters too much if there is something similar at the cross-town park. I've seen it mentioned that Beastly Kingdomme is off the table because of what was built at IOA, and I don't agree with that mindset. Pleistocene mammals are fascinating to me, moreso than dinosaurs, because these animals were not only huge and numerous but lived side by side with human beings (until we killed them off). And many of their relatives are alive today, so they're relatable yet exotic (an readily transferable to the Audio-Animatronic medium).

    You know, Dinosaur movie or not, I do think the whole Iguanadon rescue story of Countdown to Extinction was a good idea for a dinosaur attraction. It's a rather fitting choice for a dinosaur to rescue being one of the first ones discovered.
    My frustration CTX/Dinosaur from the beginning is this: All the difficult, expensive pieces (ride system, animatronics, special effects) were in place to make an attraction that should have been even better than Indiana Jones Adventure. But on the less-technical, less-expensive parts - the pre-show set-up and ride scripts - the designers (specifically the show-writers) dropped the ball.

    1. The crux of the whole adventure, time travel, is brushed off with "How? That's proprietary." It's the laziest setup and ought to be better explained in queue/pre-show scenes to help narrow the chasm of disbelief one must cross in this experience.

    2. Even moreso than Indiana Jones, Dinosaur has a very specific plot. You go back in time to find the Iguanadon, you bring him back. This hurts repeatability, like watching the same tv episode over and over. The great attractions, including Indiana Jones, leave the door open so that there isn't this clear-cut one-time event (IMO) and they have variability either overt (different effects/lines) or via the amount detail (so much to see you can't take it all in one experience). For example, if the adventurers failed to retrieve an Iguanodon (although I would drop the "bring back a dinosaur" plot altogether), at least there would be reason to go back and try again.

    3. The computer and Seeker (competing for most annoying award) tell you what you are seeing and what is happening without rest throughout the experience. So much for "show don't tell." And Seeker being able to speak/guide you from the present stretches plausibility further than I would have thought possible.

    I realize it's a theme park attraction, but the showscript for CTX/Dinosaur has always felt rushed, incoherent and implausible to me. Fix the set up, the script and all the ride effects and this could be the flagship attraction of WDW it ought to have been from day 1.

    however I don't see the need for it to be in the 50s.
    Whenever theme park's use present-day, it soon looks dated & tired (fashion, technology, hair-dos) and needs replacing (e.g. the big boxy televisions in some of the older Universal/Disney queues). But if you use an old-fashioned film reel projector to show a kitschy 1950s-style pre-show scene (in Dinosaur), you can avoid that.
    Last edited by RandySavage; 02-22-2012, 01:55 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Twist1234
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    That's a awesome concept! I can definitely picture mammoth falls. I also like the museum concept for dinosaur however I don't see the need for it to be in the 50s.
    Last edited by Twist1234; 02-22-2012, 11:06 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • FigmentJedi
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    You know, Dinosaur movie or not, I do think the whole Iguanadon rescue story of Countdown to Extinction was a good idea for a dinosaur attraction. It's a rather fitting choice for a dinosaur to rescue being one of the first ones discovered.

    Leave a comment:


  • goofy donald
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Originally posted by RandySavage View Post
    Tweak it all! I think the backstory (involving playful grad students and a town capitalizing on a recent fossil find?) could easily/(relatively) inexpensively be re-set some decades earlier by changing out the Restaurantosaurus/Boneyard props, photos, equipment, etc. for stuff from the 1950s (exactly as happened recently on DCA's Grizzly Peak). I'm all for layers of subtle detailing, backstory, etc., but themed environments need to compel on the initial surface level first and foremost. And while Dinorama may be a well-themed as a road-side parking lot carnival, that subject for theme-ing is about as base as you can get.

    I like that idea (you can see the small habitat that was home to gators (not sure if it still is) across from the restaurant is still there). I kept the spinner because of the park's lack of rides for very little kids.

    Yes! A real Jurassic Park... and the tech is about there to do it.
    I guess I can see where your coming from there and i agree that for some dinorama doesnt really click on that initial level.

    Its an american crocodile exhibit and its still there and i agree in your choice of keeping the spinner.

    the only other qualm i could think of is your invading pretty close on universals turf with the new flume ride dont you think? i mean granted its slightly different material on the surface but its extremely similar in execution. i just think that if disney were to do this some could argue they would merely be attempting to copy the studios.

    again otherwise love your work

    Leave a comment:


  • RandySavage
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Originally posted by goofy donald View Post
    Hey Randy, love the concept. My only question would be how you would fix Restaurantosaurus and the boneyard because the story behind all of the dinoland attractions are interconnected. if you change one, particularly Dinosaur or Dinorama, then each attraction needs their story and in some cases thematics tweaked in a major way for the story element to make sense.

    also Timmy, as I have told you earlier, I think if you understood the story behind the land as a whole you would appreciate the concept a lot more. this is one of those places where if you don't know the back story you dont appreciate the area and the work the imagineers did as much.
    Tweak it all! I think the backstory (involving playful grad students and a town capitalizing on a recent fossil find?) could easily/(relatively) inexpensively be re-set some decades earlier by changing out the Restaurantosaurus/Boneyard props, photos, equipment, etc. for stuff from the 1950s (exactly as happened recently on DCA's Grizzly Peak). I'm all for layers of subtle detailing, backstory, etc., but themed environments need to compel on the initial surface level first and foremost. And while Dinorama may be a well-themed as a road-side parking lot carnival, that subject for theme-ing is about as base as you can get.

    I would get ridd of the spinner. WDW has enough of them and they all look bad. DAK should have a wildlife setting.
    I like that idea (you can see the small habitat that was home to gators (not sure if it still is) across from the restaurant is still there). I kept the spinner because of the park's lack of rides for very little kids.

    Can't Disney MAKE some real mammoths?
    Yes! A real Jurassic Park... and the tech is about there to do it.
    Last edited by RandySavage; 02-22-2012, 09:02 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • goofy donald
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Hey Randy, love the concept. My only question would be how you would fix Restaurantosaurus and the boneyard because the story behind all of the dinoland attractions are interconnected. if you change one, particularly Dinosaur or Dinorama, then each attraction needs their story and in some cases thematics tweaked in a major way for the story element to make sense.

    also Timmy, as I have told you earlier, I think if you understood the story behind the land as a whole you would appreciate the concept a lot more. this is one of those places where if you don't know the back story you dont appreciate the area and the work the imagineers did as much.

    Leave a comment:


  • mikelieman
    replied
    Re: Dinoland Reborn

    Geez. Can't Disney MAKE some real mammoths? I am disappoint.

    ( Go read Varley's _Mammoth_, btw.... )

    Leave a comment:

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