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  • #81
    Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

    Originally posted by Virtual Toad View Post
    Yeah, I think Disney is crossing a line here, one I'm not really comfortable with. Xpass will be far from invisible. Resentment breeds frustration. WDW will seem a lot more like the real world after this and that's a shame. Competition and class is replacing the feeling of togetherness that used to make visiting WDW, for lack of a better word, magical. It's intangible and hard to quantify but something worth considering.
    This.

    Comment


    • #82
      Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

      Originally posted by lily23 View Post
      no, but it's very noticeable when people are racing by you in the FP line at space mountain or BTMR. I had friends from out of the country go to WDW recently; they didn't know anything about fastpass, so didn't take advantage of it. They sure noticed people getting into these very short lines, and it REALLY annoyed them
      They should have read a park map, or asked any CM at any attraction. Why should ANYONE feel guilty or responsible because those guests who've traveled from afar couldn't bother themselves do something as simple as read a park map?

      I feel zero sympathy for someone like that. When I went to Tokyo Disneyland, I read every single publication created for that place, and then some. It's my responsibility to at least have some sort of background knowledge of where I'm spending my vacation time at, and what they can do for me. Those people have no one to blame but themselves for that so-called annoyance.

      Originally posted by Twist1234 View Post
      Ugh I don't want to be the guy who says "Walt would have done X" but didn't he think all guest should be treated equally (I might be off)?
      Not quite, otherwise he wouldn't have built Club 33, among other things.

      It also could be argued that ticket books were a way of favoring the rich because the rich could afford more D & E-tickets than lesser income guests.

      It could also be argued that Disneyland itself is inherently unfair towards lesser income people simply for charging an admission fee.

      I don't agree with any of those arguments, but I also don't see NextGen/XPass being a huge disaster, or doing anything but making Disney more money.

      Originally posted by Virtual Toad View Post
      Yeah, I think Disney is crossing a line here, one I'm not really comfortable with. Xpass will be far from invisible. Resentment breeds frustration. WDW will seem a lot more like the real world after this and that's a shame. Competition and class is replacing the feeling of togetherness that used to make visiting WDW, for lack of a better word, magical. It's intangible and hard to quantify but something worth considering.
      How strong is that feeling of togetherness when you walk through, say, the lobby of the Grand Floridian?

      This concept of tiering has been done by Disney for at least 40 years, if not longer, depending on how you look at it. I don't really understand this animosity towards a guest service that I'll most likely never use because I don't go when it's crowded, and when it's not, XPass won't make any difference.

      I'll also point out that this whole thing is based upon nothing but rumor and speculation. Al Lutz has been wrong before, and this NextGen/Xpass concept is not a finalized product yet. Once some more details are announced, we'll know more about how good, or bad, this idea potentially is.

      "Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." -- James 3:13

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      • #83
        Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

        In a sense, guests who can afford to pay for a more "business class" sort of Disney experience are subsidizing the rest of us -- but only if the company reinvests those extra profits into the parks.

        So, if they make a mint from XPass, I have to wonder where the money will go; into the parks, or lining the executives' pockets?

        Comment


        • #84
          Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

          Originally posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
          How strong is that feeling of togetherness when you walk through, say, the lobby of the Grand Floridian?
          Wha?? Big difference between waltzing through the lobby of the GF and watching people waltzing past you in line all day at the MK.

          Comment


          • #85
            Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

            Originally posted by goofy donald View Post
            no body has any definitive answer for anything in this area which is what Iv'e been trying to say the whole time lollll
            Originally posted by lily23 View Post
            Does anyone have any definitive info on this? Will Xpass replace Fastpass? Or will they operate together?
            Well Disney hasn't announced any of it - and it can still change - so there is no 'definititive' answer. But given how much they are supposedly limiting Xpass (to like 4 reservations per park) there is no way this can replace Fastpass IMO. This is 'above and beyond' FP.
            Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


            Am I evil? yes, I am
            Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

            Originally posted by sleepyjeff
            Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

            Comment


            • #86
              Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

              Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
              Well Disney hasn't announced any of it - and it can still change - so there is no 'definititive' answer. But given how much they are supposedly limiting Xpass (to like 4 reservations per park) there is no way this can replace Fastpass IMO. This is 'above and beyond' FP.
              And at the same time what worries me about that is that if they don't use FP slots for that then it adds to the stand-by line, which I prefer to wait in anyways, well sometimes I really hate how some of the ques look after refitting...

              seriously how do they suppose they can basically de-facto segregate people into social and economic classes at the same time add some of the hassle of your "vacation" and not have some sort of backlash is surprising to me...
              The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.
              -George S. Patton

              Comment


              • #87
                Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                I think people are being overly dramatic

                Were they creating social and economic classes when they started putting stuff on the web.. when not everyone had access to the web, etc.

                Disney is not a commune and not everyone gets the same stuff. Why all of a sudden THIS privledge should be universal and flat.. I have no idea.

                ORD84 - I really suggest reading some other views on the information than just what you see here. Read Jim Hill's articles and draw your own conclusions
                Which WDW attractions are becoming part of the xPASS experience?
                So how exactly is Disney World's new xPASS system supposed to work?
                Will Disney Parks & Resorts officially unveil XPass at next month's annual shareholders meeting?

                His reference to the change to ADRs is a good one.. people complained before that went into effect that the sky was falling there too and how its going to be so unfair and ruin everyone because they are going to get charged for things not under their control, etc. And just how many posts has anyone seen complaining about getting charged an ADR late fee? Has anyone seen one anywhere?? (Granted, I don't read disboards)

                People are wigging out here before they really know the true scope or impact.
                Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                Am I evil? yes, I am
                Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

                Comment


                • #88
                  Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                  Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                  I think people are being overly dramatic

                  Were they creating social and economic classes when they started putting stuff on the web.. when not everyone had access to the web, etc.

                  Disney is not a commune and not everyone gets the same stuff. Why all of a sudden THIS privledge should be universal and flat.. I have no idea.

                  ORD84 - I really suggest reading some other views on the information than just what you see here. Read Jim Hill's articles and draw your own conclusions
                  Which WDW attractions are becoming part of the xPASS experience?
                  So how exactly is Disney World's new xPASS system supposed to work?
                  Will Disney Parks & Resorts officially unveil XPass at next month's annual shareholders meeting?

                  His reference to the change to ADRs is a good one.. people complained before that went into effect that the sky was falling there too and how its going to be so unfair and ruin everyone because they are going to get charged for things not under their control, etc. And just how many posts has anyone seen complaining about getting charged an ADR late fee? Has anyone seen one anywhere?? (Granted, I don't read disboards)

                  People are wigging out here before they really know the true scope or impact.
                  Flynn, you're one of the more informed persons on this forum and Id like to ask you a question; do you think this will bring up wait times of the stand-by lines beyond 10 minutes?


                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                    So I read the Jim Hill article:

                    So how exactly is Disney World's new xPASS system supposed to work?

                    And I don't agree with about the planning aspect. Given that WDW is built on top of a swamp's ecosystem, the weather can be unpredictable and wet and humid. What happens when a family books a ride on Big Thunder Mountain at the same time a thunderstorm hits WDW? What happens when a family books a ride that breaks down? Unless WDW can control the weather and have zero downtime on their rides, some folks will end up being very disappointed when they waste their xPasses.

                    I had used a Fastpass ticket for the Indiana Jones ride in DL, and it broke down on my half way through the ride. Sure, I received another Fastpass, but stuff like this does happen.

                    So the big question now is: should I deal with this xPass insanity or just book a ECV, so that I can get to the front of the line? Sure, I'm in shape and can jog the park, but an ECVs privileges might be a bigger bang for the buck

                    Now, how about the people that take up the equivalent of two seats on some of the rides like Pirates and the Great Movie Ride? Should they have their own separate line too

                    How many different queues will we end up with?

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                      Originally posted by Twist1234 View Post
                      Flynn, you're one of the more informed persons on this forum and Id like to ask you a question; do you think this will bring up wait times of the stand-by lines beyond 10 minutes?
                      If the question is 'will this increase wait times across the board by 10mins' I think no. That is a huge amount of people. Remember, wait is caused by people trying to see THAT ONE ATTRACTION - if you spread demand around to other attractions.. you lower the # of people waiting for that one attraction. There is merit to the point about spreading demand through reservations.

                      What I think is we'll have the same exact complaining from people who don't have a 'pass' the same way we do now about fastpass. Locals will complain they show up late in the day and complain the lines are long because of fp/xp and they'll complain they can't get a FP because xpass took some of the FP capacity, etc etc etc.
                      Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                      Am I evil? yes, I am
                      Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                      Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                      Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                        Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                        If the question is 'will this increase wait times across the board by 10mins' I think no. That is a huge amount of people. Remember, wait is caused by people trying to see THAT ONE ATTRACTION - if you spread demand around to other attractions.. you lower the # of people waiting for that one attraction. There is merit to the point about spreading demand through reservations.

                        What I think is we'll have the same exact complaining from people who don't have a 'pass' the same way we do now about fastpass. Locals will complain they show up late in the day and complain the lines are long because of fp/xp and they'll complain they can't get a FP because xpass took some of the FP capacity, etc etc etc.
                        So it will spread demand over the park? Doesn't seem that bad then.


                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                          The beauty of FP is that you can largely opt-in or opt-out to visit the parks the way you want to. If you want less structure, you will likely hold in a longer queue.

                          I have very vivid, distinct memories of waiting in hour-and-a-half lines to ride Space Mountain when I visited in the 70s as a child. Back then, almost every attraction had lines like that, actually. Matterhorn would have two queues wrapping around the mountain - sometimes overlapping - on the busiest days. The lines were miserable.

                          I much prefer jockeying FP for the whole family as they enjoy the day in a lineless bliss. It's better, even if I end up missing a ride or two as I hoarde tickets against each time window. Having to hit closed time slots to ride is going to shackle a lot of visitors who do it this way.

                          The premium xPASS product isn't something I'd buy into.
                          ~ Erik

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                            Originally posted by Erik Olson View Post
                            The beauty of FP is that you can largely opt-in or opt-out to visit the parks the way you want to. If you want less structure, you will likely hold in a longer queue.

                            I have very vivid, distinct memories of waiting in hour-and-a-half lines to ride Space Mountain when I visited in the 70s as a child. Back then, almost every attraction had lines like that, actually. Matterhorn would have two queues wrapping around the mountain - sometimes overlapping - on the busiest days. The lines were miserable.
                            Sorry Erik - you must be mistaken. Lines have only gotten longer now since FP was introduced according to the authoritative anti-FP camp. Your memories of longer lines and miserable waits are obviously thoughts artificially planted in your brain by evil executives who took time off from lining their pockets with gold, to have MiB implant such false memories.

                            Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                            Am I evil? yes, I am
                            Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                            Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                            Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                              Based upon the info Jim gave in his update today, if the Xpass system doesn't completely replace the FP system, and if it's a service that's available to ANY WDW/DL guest for free regardless of staying on property or not, my feelings will definitely change on the matter.

                              Of course, I'd rather things just stay the way they are with no changes, but if they put no restrictions on who can book using Xpass and don't charge for it, I'll accept the change and potentially even consider heading back to WDW at some point in the future if they ever clean up and start maintaining the parks.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                                There needs to be restrictions on who can use xPass because it's on a lot of rides that either don't need fastpass, or simply should not have it.

                                Bringing XP to everyone would essentially just be a giant explosion of FP around the resort, like we saw when FP was originally rolled out and put onto almost everything.

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                                  Originally posted by MickeyMania View Post
                                  There needs to be restrictions on who can use xPass because it's on a lot of rides that either don't need fastpass, or simply should not have it.

                                  Bringing XP to everyone would essentially just be a giant explosion of FP around the resort, like we saw when FP was originally rolled out and put onto almost everything.
                                  So far the tourists have no clue what a "Xpass" is. Have you considered Disney might progressively roll this out and adjust it as they go.
                                  Last edited by Twist1234; 02-28-2012, 12:27 PM.


                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                                    Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                                    What I think is we'll have the same exact complaining from people who don't have a 'pass' the same way we do now about fastpass. Locals will complain they show up late in the day and complain the lines are long because of fp/xp and they'll complain they can't get a FP because xpass took some of the FP capacity, etc etc etc.
                                    Yes, but isn't that a valid complaint? Passholders and DVC members spend a lot of money at the parks too. There's a valid concern that we'll be left with scraps after the Xpass goodies are doled out to everyone else. Sure, you can get an Xpass. Sorry it's for JII.

                                    I know a lot of locals are still stinging from the effects of the Dining Plan. That's one reason people are concerned about Xpass.

                                    I'm happy to hear in Jim Hill's new article that Disney is taking a look at how APers and DVC owners will be included in all this. I really hope it's for real and not just lip service.
                                    Last edited by Virtual Toad; 02-28-2012, 04:15 AM.

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                                      I think the logic is people pay for 1st Class tickets and people who can't afford 1st Class enjoy coach.
                                      Nobody ENJOYS coach!
                                      "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations, the new needs friends." - Anton Ego

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                                      • #99
                                        Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                                        Originally posted by TodAZ1 View Post
                                        Nobody ENJOYS coach!
                                        You do when you fly Singapore Airlines! =D

                                        Best experience ever! It was like Walt Disney himself ran the company!

                                        Comment


                                        • Re: Clock ticks closer to end of WDW experience

                                          Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                                          Sorry Erik - you must be mistaken. Lines have only gotten longer now since FP was introduced according to the authoritative anti-FP camp. Your memories of longer lines and miserable waits are obviously thoughts artificially planted in your brain by evil executives who took time off from lining their pockets with gold, to have MiB implant such false memories.

                                          Precisely. You know, the move to Keys to the Kingdom and quickly toward unlimited day passes might have been confounding and upsetting to people who went a la carte in their time too. As a young teenager, who didn't pay my own way into the parks before or during that transition, the move to day passes by Disney was nothing less than a wish-come-true.

                                          I interpreted FP in precisely the same light - it makes visiting the parks more manageable in every way. The parks can still ratchet the number of tickets alloted based on attendance / traffic / ride conditions, but for the guest, it assures that most of your time is spent between attractions or riding one. My kids will not remember lines at WDW as I did at DL - where views of the posteriors of the people in front of me is still a fresh memory some thirty years later. And not the kind of posteriors you want fresh in your memory, for that matter.

                                          I don't believe attendance is lower today than it was in the mid-70s to early 90s, but the FP-enhanced queues certainly pale in comparison to what I remember from my visits before their advent.
                                          ~ Erik

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