Announcement

Collapse
See more
See less

They are building EPCOT

Collapse

Get Away Today

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • [Other] They are building EPCOT

    Apologize if this is not the correct forum. It was the best fit I could find for what I am posting.

    They are building EPCOT. Not the theme park but an experimental prototype city of tomorrow. (EPCOT) Now it's not exactly what Walt Disney had in mind, but I think it's pretty close. It is called Masdar. The city of the future. Ran on solar poser, complete zero emissions city. Why do I see EPCOT in this city? Because it is a place for new technologies and ideas to be tested and put to use before being applied to the rest of the world. A laboratory for the great cities of the world. And isn't that what Walt Disney wanted for EPCOT? A city of tomorrow where new ideas could be tested and applied for the rest of the world to see their effectiveness and then adopt those technologies. After all Masdar is an Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow. Isn't it?




    Welcome To Masdar City - YouTube

    Masdar City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    What do you think?
    Favorite Ride: Tower of Terror

  • #2
    Re: They are building EPCOT

    That's pretty cool.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: They are building EPCOT

      Finally Walts last Dream will be come reality if only it was where he wanted it to be.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: They are building EPCOT

        Walt's dream was a hare-brained scheme. Throughout history, planned communities and societies have failed miserably; these things develop organically, not artificially.
        Hey, that rhymes

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: They are building EPCOT

          Originally posted by disneyfann121 View Post
          Walt's dream was a hare-brained scheme. Throughout history, planned communities and societies have failed miserably; these things develop organically, not artificially.
          Hey, that rhymes
          Every one of Walt's "big projects" was doomed to failure according to the skeptics, because it had never been executed successfully before. Maybe EPCOT would've been "Walt's folly," but he never had the chance to try. All the other planned communities that failed before weren't built/maintained by Walt Disney.
          I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
          -Walt Disney

          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: They are building EPCOT

            I have been following Masdar city for a while now, because it really is Epcot. I believe in this, and I really hope that it becomes the template for the next world city.
            Get the latest and greatest theme park news by

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: They are building EPCOT

              WOW! That is fascinating. That Masdar City does have a lot of similarities to that what Walt Disney envisioned for his original EPCOT plans. Sure it will not be an EPCOT theme park clone, but it sure is a fun place to go to, thank you for posting the video.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: They are building EPCOT

                that is incredible! it makes me very happy to see that something like that is happening. not just because it reminds me of Walt's dream but also because people are being innovative about the future of humanity. can't wait to see the progress continue : )

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: They are building EPCOT

                  LOL. I should've known that this was being built in the UAE. It's the only country in the world who would have that kind of money to blow. And I hear they're looking for a Disneyland of their own too.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: They are building EPCOT

                    Originally posted by toonaspie View Post
                    LOL. I should've known that this was being built in the UAE. It's the only country in the world who would have that kind of money to blow. And I hear they're looking for a Disneyland of their own too.
                    Somehow, I don't see Disney venturing into Abu Dhabi though.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: They are building EPCOT

                      This is awesome. I'm going to have to send the link to Sam Gennawey, our resident urban planner and Walt Disney expert, to see what he thinks.
                      MiceChat 101: Be NICE! If you don't play well with others, you are in the wrong sandbox.

                      Find us on Facebook: .

                      How do you support MiceChat? Join MiceChat GOLD!,
                      Save

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: They are building EPCOT

                        Originally posted by disneyfann121 View Post
                        Walt's dream was a hare-brained scheme. Throughout history, planned communities and societies have failed miserably; these things develop organically, not artificially.
                        Hey, that rhymes
                        The fallacy of comparing EPCOT to the failed utopian communities/societies you mention is contained in three key words: Experimental. Prototype. Tomorrow.

                        EPCOT was envisioned as an experiment in technology, industry and commerce. It was R&D oriented, with target goals and time frames. Social engineering -- the historical driving force behind the societies and communities you mention -- wasn't part of it, nor was it remotely utopian. Comparing the two isn't even apples and oranges, it's apples and pumpkins.

                        Unfortunately, when Walt died the vision for EPCOT died with him. The company backed out and the experiment was never run. The "big brother controlled society" label slapped on EPCOT by so many writers (starting with Richard Schickel's 1968 The Disney Version) is founded on uninformed assumptions, many related to Walt's late-life political leanings -- assumptions that have been handed down and repeated over the decades since his death.
                        Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 05-17-2012, 05:30 PM.
                        "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                        it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                        together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                        designed to appeal to everyone."

                        - Walt Disney

                        "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                        - Michael Eisner

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: They are building EPCOT

                          Originally posted by Dustysage View Post
                          This is awesome. I'm going to have to send the link to Sam Gennawey, our resident urban planner and Walt Disney expert, to see what he thinks.
                          Awesome.
                          Favorite Ride: Tower of Terror

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: They are building EPCOT

                            ...but... It will never be EPCOT.

                            ...and will it be as great as Dubai World?

                            I doubt anything from that region. EPCOT semed like a good idea once. Disney took that idea and made it to a stagnant themepark ...uh... and then nothing more.
                            Last edited by TimmyTimmyTimmy; 05-18-2012, 03:05 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: They are building EPCOT

                              Heh, I did a presentation on this a few years ago. Very cool design, and it's exciting to see that it's actually undergoing construction (unlike many other UAE projects, which stopped dead in their tracks following the real estate bust).

                              I had a nice long discussion about EPCOT with a friend/urban planning professor not too long ago. I was initially curious to see whether he had heard of Walt's proposal (he had), but it grew into a discussion about whether it was feasible or would have worked today. His belief was that the drawing board may have ultimately been the best place for EPCOT... not because it was a bad idea, but because it never had the chance to fail, and that unbuilt ideas have just has much potential to influence future design even if they end up never being constructed. (Heck, urban planners STILL talk about Le Corbusier's plan for Paris, and all that amounted to was a model and some sketches...) In any case, I suspect we're seeing some of that EPCOT influence here.

                              I have a whole lot of enormous renderings of Masdar to share from a friend that worked at Adrian Smith + Gordon Gill... would anyone like me to post them? I'll try to sort them and find a way to get them online if there's interest.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Re: They are building EPCOT

                                There are a few similarities between Masdar EPCOT. The focus on developing and testing new technology and the pedestrian only streets are the obvious ones but there are also some important differences.

                                Masdar has a slightly different focus. Where EPCOT was a future city where people would test new technology, Masdar is more specifically focused on renewable energy and eliminating pollution. The focus of EPCOT was on the people living there and how they moved and interacted with their surroundings. Masdar is laid out and oriented to provide shade, lower temperatures and proper airflow. EPCOT was laid out for transportation. If you look at the transportation layout for Masdar it's a bit of a mess especially when compared to EPCOT's radial plan.

                                The other big difference is density. Masdar like EPCOT is being built with a focus on pedestrian traffic. In the video they say this allows streets to be narrower. I heard that as greater population density. While this is great for people who are used to or like living in cities, it offers nothing for those who require a bit more space. EPCOT of course had high density apartment buildings in the core and low density housing on the other side of the green belt. This is what made transportation more important at EPCOT than it appears to be at Masdar; people had farther to travel to get to their destination.

                                I like the Masdar plan. It looks great and its focus on the development of technology to solve energy and environmental challenges is definitely a good cause, but it's not EPCOT. EPCOT's goal was much more broad. It was about salving all of the problems modern cities face. Masdar is about technology to develop greater sustainable energy. EPCOT is about technology to develop greater humanity.
                                It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.
                                sigpic

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Re: They are building EPCOT

                                  I have tremendous respect for everything that Walt accomplished during his life. Many of the things he did had never been attempted before, at least not on the scale that he was shooting for. Thus, there was no way to know whether it could be done, until Walt pulled it off.

                                  However, that's not the case with the original idea for EPCOT. Planned communities have been tried, repeatedly, usually by tyrannical governments with a lot more power than Walt ever had. And even though those despots could force the populace to conform to their "vision", all those plans still failed. So how is an entrepreneur going to accomplish it?

                                  I'm not comparing Walt to some tyrant. I'm just saying that if absolute, despotic rulers can't force an untenable idea to work, then clearly no one can. They were always experimental, and they were always prototypes, and they were always failures.

                                  Thankfully, EPCOT became a good theme park, not another "let's save the world" well meaning but ill-fated experiment.
                                  Last edited by disneyfann121; 05-18-2012, 11:33 AM.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Re: They are building EPCOT

                                    Originally posted by disneyfann121 View Post
                                    I have tremendous respect for everything that Walt accomplished during his life. Many of the things he did had never been attempted before, at least not on the scale that he was shooting for. Thus, there was no way to know whether it could be done, until Walt pulled it off.

                                    However, that's not the case with the original idea for EPCOT. Planned communities have been tried, repeatedly, usually by tyrannical governments with a lot more power than Walt ever had. And even though those despots could force the populace to conform to their "vision", all those plans still failed. So how is an entrepreneur going to accomplish it?

                                    I'm not comparing Walt to some tyrant. I'm just saying that if absolute, despotic rulers can't force an untenable idea to work, then clearly no one can. They were always experimental, and they were always prototypes, and they were always failures.

                                    Thankfully, EPCOT became a good theme park, not another "let's save the world" well meaning but ill-fated experiment.
                                    As noted earlier in the thread, that take on EPCOT is urban legend. It is not what EPCOT was intended to be:

                                    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                                    The fallacy of comparing EPCOT to failed utopian communities/societies is contained in three key words: Experimental. Prototype. Tomorrow.

                                    EPCOT was envisioned as an experiment in technology, industry and commerce. It was R&D oriented, with target goals and time frames. Social engineering -- the historical driving force behind utopian societies and communities -- wasn't part of it. Comparing the two isn't even apples and oranges, it's apples and pumpkins.

                                    Unfortunately, when Walt died the vision for EPCOT died with him. The company backed out and the experiment was never run. The "big brother controlled society" label slapped on EPCOT by so many writers (starting with Richard Schickel's 1968 The Disney Version) is founded on uninformed assumptions, many related to Walt's late-life political leanings -- assumptions that have been handed down and repeated over the decades since his death.
                                    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                    designed to appeal to everyone."

                                    - Walt Disney

                                    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                    - Michael Eisner

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Re: They are building EPCOT

                                      Mr. Wiggins, that's what you say about the thinking behind EPCOT. I'm basing my opinion largely on the excellent biography of Walt, The Animated Man: A Life of Walt Disney. The more you read about Walt's vision for EPCOT, the more it sounds like some kind of Logan's Run self-enclosed tech utopia.

                                      In "Walt Disney's EPCOT 66", his promotional film for the project, a narrator says "this entire 50 acres of city streets and buildings will be completely enclosed. In this climate-controlled environment, shoppers, theatregoers, and people just out for a stroll will enjoy ideal weather conditions, protected day and night from rain, heat and cold and humidity."

                                      Much of the plan also smacks of some kind of socialist utopia. Here's another quote from The Animated Man.

                                      "As Disney's ideas about EPCOT's governance took shape in late 1966, he leaned more and more toward the sort of control he had exercised over Disneyland. Not only would everyone be employed, but, he said, no residents would own property. There would be no slums 'because we won't let them develop.'"

                                      And here's a quote from Marvin Davis, as quoted in the book. "Walt's thought was that in order to maintain the original philosophy of keeping this an experimental prototype, it would have to be something that was pretty much controlled by the company...This is something that we never really discuss very much publicly...In order to have the control that is necessary there, you would just about eliminate the possibility of having a voting community. Because the minute they start voting, then you lose control, and that's the end of the possibility of experimental development!"

                                      The Animated Man is far from a Walt-bashing biography. It's a very balanced and mostly admiring portrait of the man. But the book does note an unsurprising deterioration at the end of his life, when his health was failing and his mental state was becoming increasingly frayed. Is it a coincidence that the plans for EPCOT became more entrenched in his mind at this point in his life?

                                      The quotes about EPCOT are pretty disturbing. Real people were supposed to live there, but Walt envisioned controlling them like some kind of lab experiment.
                                      Last edited by disneyfann121; 05-18-2012, 12:42 PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Re: They are building EPCOT

                                        Originally posted by disneyfann121 View Post
                                        Much of the plan also smacks of some kind of socialist utopia. Here's another quote from The Animated Man.

                                        "As Disney's ideas about EPCOT's governance took shape in late 1966, he leaned more and more toward the sort of control he had exercised over Disneyland. Not only would everyone be employed, but, he said, no residents would own property. There would be no slums 'because we won't let them develop.'"
                                        The "we won't let [slums] develop" quote has been taken out of context numerous times. Here, it's given in context, yet you seem to be ignoring it. No property in EPCOT would have been for sale - it would have been rental only, and part of the lease agreement would stipulate that you must be employed to live in EPCOT. If you're not employed, you're no longer fulfilling the terms of the lease, and would have to leave EPCOT. (This is also why the Disney Village was initially conceived as a retirement community at WDW, because retired people wouldn't be able to live in EPCOT.) That's how they would keep slums from developing, not through controlling people's lives. It's not utopian, it's being able to effectively realize the goals of EPCOT.

                                        Your implication that Walt was leaning towards socialism with EPCOT is laughable. Walt was about as far from a socialist as possible. Google Walt-Disney HUAC or Disney-animators-stike and you'll find out how Walt felt about socialism (his father's ideologies notwithstanding).
                                        I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
                                        -Walt Disney

                                        sigpic

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X