Epcot's Living Seas - How Much Further Should they Go?

[General Grizz]

We've heard that Disney Imagineering has big plans for Epcot's Living Seas pavilion - despite the changes we've already seen (Can You Find Nemo?, Bruce's Sub Shack, Turtle Talk with Crush, Meet and Greet, Merchandise, Video Screen Narrations).

From what we've heard, the Imagineers are potentially looking at swapping the entrance and the exit, removing the hydrolators, possibly including a brand new ride or walkthrough (not the Sea Cabs), and essentially turning the pavilion into a total Finding Nemo "experience."

(Hollograms of the Nemo characters were being designed for the Sea Cabs, but due to disrepair of the area, that project was cancelled).

How far has Nemo gone? What do you think of an update, but keeping the Seabase Alpha/Nemo balance?

[Digital Underworld]

Well considering anything they would suggest is in your eyes a step in the wrong direction, why even ask?

[General Grizz]

Well considering anything they would suggest is in your eyes a step in the wrong direction, why even ask?

Digital -- The purpose of this thread was to poll the MiceChat forums on what they think should be done to the Living Seas. Let's not turn this into an attack thread.

[Indy95]

IMO, The Living Seas was good while it lasted, but right now it's past its prime. Walking through the pavilion a few years ago, guests just seemed to be wondering what they were doing there, and what the heck is this supposed to be about again, and where's the rides. The best thing about the pavilion was its ambition...I mean this is one gargantuan attraction! And I liked how there were so many options...the hydrolators, the movies, the omnimover Sea Cab experience, etc. But it's time to face facts: times are changing, and guests are riding Test Track and M:S while skipping LS.

I always liked how sponsorships were handled at LS: UT was used as a partner to glimpse into future technologies of the Seas, and not as a simple advertising opportunity like at other pavilions. Disney needs to keep that aspect.

My suggestion? LS should be updated with new character-driven experiences, but should include other H20-based franchises such as the Little Mermaid. This is realistically the best thing that Disney can do without gutting or removing the pavilion. LS had all of the Epcot educational elements, but now that the pavilion is waning in both attraction technologies and popularity, the most logical thing to do would be to create a connection with characters like Nemo and Ariel that are known throughout the world. Think about it: a child would literally run into a pavilion that had Nemo and Ariel on the marquee, even though that child would have most likely balked at going into LS in times past. But this shouldn't just be a half-***ed job, EVERYTHING should be tied into the new theme. The movies should still be educational, but the presence of Nemo and Ariel would make them much more bearable. Heck, they could even replace a section of the attraction and feature an all-new Little Mermaid show (similar to the one at Tokyo DisneySeas) that highlites the advantages of exploring the sea. Remember, the name of the game is still "edutainment," and frankly the "tainment" part has been lost on LS.

[AnimatronicsGuy]

no no no no no no.
leave the characters out of EPCOT. characters belong in the other parks (especially MK). epcot was not designed to showcase cartoons, it was designed to showcase the more realistic side to life.
placing character rides inside it will make it lose it's originality. that's why the stupid wand/hand on spaceship earth looks terrible... because it's out of place with the design ofthe park. not to mention it just plain takes away from the icon.

[Mickey's Friend]

no no no no no no.
leave the characters out of EPCOT. characters belong in the other parks (especially MK). epcot was not designed to showcase cartoons, it was designed to showcase the more realistic side to life.
placing character rides inside it will make it lose it's originality. that's why the stupid wand/hand on spaceship earth looks terrible... because it's out of place with the design ofthe park. not to mention it just plain takes away from the icon.

I agree with you AnimatronicsGuy. Characters should be left out of Epcot. They should probably update all of the technology in the attraction though. They should also put in some sort of fast food restraunt and a new attraction of some sort.

[Pacha]

The movies should still be educational, but the presence of Nemo and Ariel would make them much more bearable. Heck, they could even replace a section of the attraction and feature an all-new Little Mermaid show (similar to the one at Tokyo DisneySeas) that highlites the advantages of exploring the sea. Remember, the name of the game is still "edutainment," and frankly the "tainment" part has been lost on LS.

I wholeheartedly agree. I love LS as it is because I love the underwater world. Kids though? Not so sure about them. IMO, they definitely need someting to bring the kids in while also appealing to adults' desire to learn and explore. Having the best of both world's is very doable.

Food would be good too.
Although serving seafood might not be so good for the morale of the living fish!
"Ahhh! No! They're eating Bruce!" :lol:

[Nephythys]

I suddenly had this vivid image of them putting a real girl dressed as Ariel in the big tank and people watching her swim around!

[Club 33]

Nemo is fine and everything, but enough is enough. I dont want to have to start visiting an Experimental Pixar Community Of Tomorrow.

[AndRu]

Disney should forget the things like "The Living Seas" and leave them to Sea World who are the experts in this field. Epcot deserves better rides and attractions than fake lifts and small fish tanks.

[General Grizz]

Disney should forget the things like "The Living Seas" and leave them to Sea World who are the experts in this field. Epcot deserves better rides and attractions than fake lifts and small fish tanks.

AndRu --

The aquarium in the Living Seas is the largest manmade sea environment in the world. There's no going back.

[Pacha]

I still think that if done right, you can have the best of both worlds: Good character theming and good scientific content. I guess I just don't understand how having Nemo characters in the environment would spoil the attraction. :confused:

[BigDaddyKyle]

I think that LS should be updated, but not upgraded to the point of being completely Nemo. I really enjoy the movie, but LS was not built to be about Nemo. LS was built to teach us about sealife and creatures of the ocean. That is what Epcot is supposed to be about anyway! Education. I am afraid that if you bring Nemo comepletely into LS that it will take the education out of this pavilion. LS will just be the place to go and meet Nemo and his friends. It just kills me everytime people talk about education in our country and how it has gone down. This is one way to show what is happening to our education in this country. It is all commercialized now. A kid can tell you all you want to know about a movie that they watch, but they are not able to tell you about what kind of fish are in the movie, and where they live. It just kills me!

[Pacha]

I respectfully disagree. I really think they can combine the two and not lose on the education end at all. In fact, I'm willing to bet the education end would be more effective for kids if themed with characters.

For example, let's say you want to teach your kid about sea turtles. Which do you think most kids would listen to more intently; an animated Crush or a voice over from a generic announcer? I'm willing to bet the Crush would be the more effective teacher for kids than some generic method.

I'm all for the character theming if it's done the right way and not overdone to a point where adults can't enjoy it. i.e. not over-commercialized.

[BigDaddyKyle]

But Disney is all about over-commercializing so what do we do???

[Indy95]

I'm all for the character theming if it's done the right way and not overdone to a point where adults can't enjoy it. i.e. not over-commercialized.

Exactly. We're not trying to take out the education aspect here, we're actually trying to help the kids learn MORE than what the pavilion was originally. Epcot is NOT solely based on education. If it was, it would just be a museum. Epcot is about the combination of education and entertainment, and that's exactly what they're trying to do. LS isn't very entertaining anymore, and the character connection will help kids identify with the education portion. Kids will learn far more with Nemo than they will with the current LS (mostly because they're bored out of their minds).

[General Grizz]

A LOT of mixed reviews!

I'll throw in mine: I'm VERY pleased with what we've seen so far at the Living Seas. Turtle Talk with Crush is amazing. I do have one problem with it, and it's that the attraction isn't as educational as I would hope. Crush does spout out a few turtle facts, but that's about it. Regardless, I have plans to see this wonderful new show during every trip to Epcot. I think it's one of the best things to come to Epcot in many years: it allows kids to learn and have fun in a totally new way... and just as well entertains adults who wonder, "How do they DO that?!"

As the Living Seas stands now, nearly the entire bottom floor is completely themed to Nemo. But the "realistic" story of Seabase Alpha still exists, allowing guests to be submerged into an original experience WHILE having a variety in types of show. The balance works, and I think it can stick through during the potential rehab.

Because whatever happens, the Living Seas needs a tasteful update. The serene atmosphere should stay, but a general refreshening would be awesome.

There are a few things I would be against - i.e. a show based on Nemo or The Little Mermaid that doesn't focus on the Seas (i.e. a musical revue). However, I don't think Disney would ever do this. (At least at this point ).

I guess a good example of what I'm envisioning can be seen in the Land. Simba, Timon, and Pumbaa were added to the pavilion in one show, but they didn't take over the Living with the Land Boatride, Harvest Theater show, or Sunshine Season Food Fair. A "symbiosis" was created, allowing the magic originality of Epcot and the Imagineers to shine through along with the movie tie-in experience.

I don't mind Nemo being added a tad more, but if "Nemoland" results, we may as well call the Living Seas "Fantasyland." As it was sung in Epcot's Opening Celebration, "It's no fantasy - it's all alive and real!"

It would pain me to see Toy Story take over the Wonders of Life (as it was once rumored), Monsters Inc. take over Energy, etc. The same "character invasion" exists in Tomorrowland with Stitch and Buzz. Although I'm not against what we have now with Buzz or Nemo, a further spreading of the characters can tip the balance and lead to the other extreme.

Case in point, Toy Story space aliens potentially taking over the Carousel of Progress.

Balance, then, sums up my post.

[BigDaddyKyle]

i guess you all are right. maybe more of Nemo in the LS will get kids more interested in going into there to explore. I just don't want to see a name change or anything like like, even if they change the name to The Living Seas with Nemo and Friends. I really DON'T want to see that when I head down to WDW in May.

OH, Indy95, you need to add exploration onto your synopsis of what Epcot is for. Exploration is one of the things that makes epcot so great!

[Pacha]

i guess you all are right. maybe more of Nemo in the LS will get kids more interested in going into there to explore.

BigDaddy, I've read some of your other posts and you always have great ideas and thoughts. :bow:

It seems like there's definitely an issue with attendance at LS and they need to do something. I happen to think the Nemo idea is a good one, but hey...it's not the only idea out there! If you have a more effective idea than character theming the attraction, please share!

[BigDaddyKyle]

I was thinking about an upgrade of the Hydrodulators into an actual sit down expeience. Let the hydrodulator take you around sea base alpha. Kinda like the 20k ride. I know they have plenty of room in there to do it, and I would love to relive the days of 20k. I can't think of a whole lot to do with LS, but this is one thing that I think will work.