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  • #21
    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    As some one who more than enjoys adult beverages, this saddens me.
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    • #22
      Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

      Definitely agree with flynnibus.
      DisneyTwins
      Since May 2003

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      • #23
        Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

        Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
        Do you think Walt was incapable of new thoughts and new opinions as the world around him evolved?

        Why do we evoke an opinion formed in a specific time period, in different context, and assume he would never wander from that idea?

        Why do we assume a man known for looking forward, not backwards, would never change his mind on this subject even after the product, society, and presentation have all changed?

        Why do we assume a thought was permanent?

        Reality is we don't know what he would want or think in this world and in this type of theme park.

        Not all his thoughts are universal and unchanging in time.

        Even Walt himself changed over time.. I don't know why people insist his ideas wouldn't continue to evolve if he lived longer and hence the world needs to be trapped in not what he felt were Universal laws of the Universe, but simply how he felt he should run his park in the 50s and 60s.
        Amen, common sense .... good post.
        ...

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        • #24
          Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

          Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
          Do you think Walt was incapable of new thoughts and new opinions as the world around him evolved?
          No, but Walt isn't the one making this decision. Regardless of subjective opinions for/against alcohol/morality/image/etc., the facts are this:
          1. TWDC used to not sell alcohol in MK parks outside of Club 33
          2. The one exception was DLP, ostensibly for cultural reasons and the realities of doing business in that country
          3. Disney has now chosen to violate that policy

          Regardless of what you think about the policy, the policy existed for a reason, otherwise they never would have had it. Apparently Disney now thinks that reason isn't very important. That means something.
          I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
          -Walt Disney

          sigpic

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          • #25
            Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

            Originally posted by JCSkipr79 View Post
            Hey, Disneytwins. If guests want chewing tabacco should Disney sell it in the park?? TDO needs to stop bending over to every hissyfit the guests have. If they cannot enjoy MK without alcohol then.....THEY SHOULDNT BE THERE.
            What are the public's views on chewing tobacco and smoking these days? Not good.
            Beer is now being considered a craft, just like fine wine and even is healthy in some aspects.

            It's all about the societal views are on a particular product.

            This is a mug of beer with dinner. Not just a beer kiosk. Things will be fine. People aren't go to Be Our Guest and get totally hammered, especially at eight or nine bucks a glass.
            Last edited by Disneytwins; 09-13-2012, 03:09 PM.
            DisneyTwins
            Since May 2003

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            • #26
              Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

              Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
              Demand for alcohol is nothing new.
              No, but the presentation, where it's served, dining, and society have all changed.. as well as the social tolerances around drunkenness.
              Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


              Am I evil? yes, I am
              Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

              Originally posted by sleepyjeff
              Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

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              • #27
                Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                TOKYO DISNEYLAND/SEA both serves beer and alcohol and never had problems with it because it has restrictions to it like you can buy that when youre 20 years old and up

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                • #28
                  Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                  If they can get hammered at F&W, they'll do it at BoG if they REALLT want to. And this is just the first step.......

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                  • #29
                    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                    A company must adapt with changes in society. That's how every company works and has worked.

                    Just think, would Walt want women in Pixar or in Disney Animation? Probably not. So now we're not following Walt's wishes on that aspect?
                    DisneyTwins
                    Since May 2003

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                    • #30
                      Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                      Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
                      Regardless of what you think about the policy, the policy existed for a reason, otherwise they never would have had it. Apparently Disney now thinks that reason isn't very important. That means something.
                      The park used to allow smoking...
                      The park used to close certain days of the week...

                      There are reasons for those choices that made sense at the time. Things evolved, and so did the policies. No reason this policy can't evolve either.

                      Let's face it.. the MK is no different from any other of the theme parks in this regard. Its been allowed in those parks and the sky hasn't fallen. So evolution here isn't going to ruin it all.

                      And if you truely feel so strongly that concepts voiced in the 50s should be strictly adhered to still... I fully expect you to show up to work in a suit and tie and dress up when you do goto a Disney park. After all, it was Walt's desire.
                      Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                      Am I evil? yes, I am
                      Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                      Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                      Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                        Originally posted by Disneytwins View Post
                        This is a mug of beer with dinner. Not just a beer kiosk. Things will be fine. People aren't go to Be Our Guest and get totally hammered, especially at eight or nine bucks a glass.
                        I don't think anyone (myself included) is arguing that. I'm not worried about people getting wasted in Fantasyland 'cause I don't think it will happen. And were this Epcot, or DAK, or DHS, I'd be excited to try one of those beers myself. That's not the argument. The argument is that the MK-style parks were designated alcohol free out of respect for Walt and his wishes. As someone who cares deeply about Walt, his legacy, and his original intentions, I don't want to see that tradition end. I don't want to see WDW further distance itself from its namesake because TDO thinks they can make a little extra cash. It's extremely disappointing and totally unnecessary.
                        I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
                        -Walt Disney

                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                          Tokyo dosen't have the ........CLIENTELE MK gets......

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                          • #33
                            Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                            Originally posted by Disneytwins View Post
                            A company has to adapt with changes in society.

                            Just think, would Walt want women in Pixar or in Disney Animation. Probably not. Would he today? most likely.
                            Please. Have you read a single book on Disney history? Ever heard of Mary Blair? Dorothea Redmond? Alice Davis?

                            ---------- Post added 09-13-2012 at 07:20 PM ----------

                            Originally posted by disfa10 View Post
                            TOKYO DISNEYLAND/SEA both serves beer and alcohol and never had problems with it because it has restrictions to it like you can buy that when youre 20 years old and up
                            Tokyo Disneyland does not offer alcoholic beverages outside of Club 33.
                            I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
                            -Walt Disney

                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                              Just think, would Walt want women in Pixar or in Disney Animation. Probably not. Would he today? most likely.

                              WOW. This shows your COMPLETE IGNORANCE on ANY history on the Company. Mary Blair was a major color stylist and art director on the Post War films. Hell, she's an Imagineering Legend. Who inked and painted all the cels?? WOMEN dofus. Harriet Burns started the WDI Model Shop. Thank YOU for showing your complete lack of knowledge.

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                              • #35
                                Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                Men did the animation back then. Not women. They also had their own lounge separate from the men. I'm referring to that.
                                DisneyTwins
                                Since May 2003

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                                • #36
                                  Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                  Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                                  The park used to allow smoking...
                                  The park used to close certain days of the week...

                                  There are reasons for those choices that made sense at the time. Things evolved, and so did the policies. No reason this policy can't evolve either.

                                  Let's face it.. the MK is no different from any other of the theme parks in this regard. Its been allowed in those parks and the sky hasn't fallen. So evolution here isn't going to ruin it all.

                                  And if you truely feel so strongly that concepts voiced in the 50s should be strictly adhered to still... I fully expect you to show up to work in a suit and tie and dress up when you do goto a Disney park. After all, it was Walt's desire.
                                  Nothing you list above was an explicit policy at the time of Walt's death that was explicitly upheld by TWDC for decades for the express purpose of honoring Walt and his wishes. You're comparing apples to oranges here.
                                  I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
                                  -Walt Disney

                                  sigpic

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                    Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
                                    Nothing you list above was an explicit policy at the time of Walt's death that was explicitly upheld by TWDC for decades for the express purpose of honoring Walt and his wishes. You're comparing apples to oranges here.
                                    So SOME ideas of his are hands off... but others are allowed to be adapted?

                                    It was tradition - nothing more. But a tradition that is dated and out of touch. The opinion of Walt was a function of the context of the time - not some universal law of the universe against alcohol, children, and theme parks.

                                    Walt adapted... we should stop acting like he never did and treat things as universal simply because they were true at a point in time.

                                    It belittles the man to argue Walt was so fixed in his ways that it's blasphemy to suggest Walt's very own ideas may have changed so we must stick to them to the letter, no matter how much the context has changed. It infers the man could never evolve and was a man so stuck in his ways he would never change.

                                    Reality is.. we don't know what he would think today.. so why do we apply what he thought decades ago in entirely different context, as his decision today?
                                    Last edited by flynnibus; 09-13-2012, 03:49 PM.
                                    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                                    Am I evil? yes, I am
                                    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                                    Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                                    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                      Why do you think they got rid of smoking park-wide? why did they get rid of cigarettes at the parks?

                                      Society wanted cigarettes and tobacco back them. It was widely used. That doesn't mean they want them now in 2012.
                                      DisneyTwins
                                      Since May 2003

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                        Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                                        It was tradition - nothing more. But a tradition that is dated and out of touch.
                                        You're right. It was tradition (and still is at DL and TDL). But traditions exist for a reason, and you generally are supposed to have a good reason to break them. I haven't heard one yet. It's not like the entire property was dry and no one could get a drink anywhere. Hop on the monorail or a bus and you've got tons of options. If the tradition is so dated and out of touch and has no value, why aren't the street carts in the HUB selling Bud Light? Why is Disney trying to introduce this so quietly and only in one location in the park and in a limited setting at that? Why not treat it like Epcot? If we don't care about alcohol in the MK, then why don't we really not care? Disney wants it both ways.
                                        I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
                                        -Walt Disney

                                        sigpic

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                          Heres a good reason - Guests want it.

                                          That was the second most asked question when I worked there. I referred them to Hollywood Studios. You can probably figure out their reaction.
                                          DisneyTwins
                                          Since May 2003

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