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  • #41
    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
    You're right. It was tradition (and still is at DL and TDL). But traditions exist for a reason, and you generally are supposed to have a good reason to break them
    Not really - many traditions exist simply because of habit.. some change simply out of chance. Most that persist not because they make sense or are still valid, but purely out of respect that it's a tradition in itself.

    Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
    I haven't heard one yet
    A simple one.. people wanted it. A second one.. it fits the location and menu.

    Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
    It's not like the entire property was dry and no one could get a drink anywhere. Hop on the monorail or a bus and you've got tons of options. If the tradition is so dated and out of touch and has no value, why aren't the street carts in the HUB selling Bud Light?
    Strawman...
    Selling walk up beer cups for carry away consumption is an entirely different application than alcohol on a dinner menu.

    Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
    Why is Disney trying to introduce this so quietly and only in one location in the park and in a limited setting at that?
    So quietly? They put it right up on the blog...
    Limited Setting? It's almost two full pages of wine choices plus a beer selection
    One Location? Because they are introducing a new menu here.. not everywhere?

    Your statement infers the choice is to push alcohol everywhere at once.. and that's not what is happening. Disney is simply allowing it on a new menu. Where is this 'it must be all or nothing' rule that if you have alcohol it needs to be everywhere at once?
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Originally posted by sleepyjeff
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

    Comment


    • #42
      Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

      Doesn't bother me.

      If people wanted to get drunk, they easily could in the park. I'm not going to over-exaggerated about them serving alcohol.

      Comment


      • #43
        Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

        Nobody is going to make a reservation to eat at BOG six months in advance so that they can get drunk at the MK. Too much planning and it will cost too much. Not to mention it is a restaurant with a turnover policy in place. You won't be allowed to linger at your table for hours.

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        • #44
          Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

          Sorry, if guests kept asking to drink in MK, they should go back to teh SF/Cedar Fair parks where they belong. Obvisouly don't know what MAKES a Disney park

          Comment


          • #45
            Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

            Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
            But traditions exist for a reason, and you generally are supposed to have a good reason to break them. I haven't heard one yet.
            OK, here's the reason. The BOG is the first restaurant in the MK to offer fine dining. Now, some might say that Cinderella's Royal Table fits this bill. But while its food is a notch or two above burgers & fries, the focus at CRT is the princess meet & greet. BOG will be a whole new thing - true fine dining. As one who really enjoys fine dining while on vacation, not being able to enjoy a fine wine with dinner would keep me away. It's just something that goes with a really good meal. It's not about getting drunk, or even about getting buzzed. It's about presenting fine dining in such a way as to appeal to those of us who enjoy fine dining.

            As to the whole Walt thing, I don't think there's any doubt that Walt didn't want alcohol sold in his park. Would he have approved of it in DCA, or E.P.C.O.T., or DAK? Would he even have prohibited it in the MK? Who knows? Would he have seen that it really hasn't been a problem in DCA and then loosen his own booze edict in DL? You can second-guess what Walt would have wanted all day, but it doesn't change the fact that NO ONE KNOWS how he would have felt in 2012. Yes, it's a big break from tradition to serve it in the MK. But to me it seems totally justified, and will make the new BOG restaurant a much better dining experience. Seems like a really good thing to me.

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            • #46
              Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

              flynnibus, unkadug, and danyoung, I absolutely agree with you guys.

              Plus, Mrs. Potts sings, "Wine's been poured..." so consider having wine with your meal part of the theme'ing.

              Comment


              • #47
                Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                Didn't mean to sound rude in this post, I think its just silly that we take everything we Walt said about Disneyland literally in 2012.
                Last edited by GhostHostJeff; 09-13-2012, 06:59 PM.
                Jeff Wayne






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                • #48
                  Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                  Okay, now were getting into insulting territory.
                  DisneyTwins
                  Since May 2003

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                  • #49
                    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                    Alcohol consumed responsibly is not seen as a problem to me.

                    Certain topics make their rounds here at MiceChat, and this is one that doesn't always end pretty.

                    Discussions of these same topics almost always never change anybody's mind.
                    BarbaraAnn

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                      Originally posted by Barbaraann View Post
                      Alcohol consumed responsibly is not seen as a problem to me.

                      Certain topics make their rounds here at MiceChat, and this is one that doesn't always end pretty.

                      Discussions of these same topics almost always never change anybody's mind.
                      This is true.. but at least this time it's not a theoretical - it's happening.
                      Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                      Am I evil? yes, I am
                      Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                      Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                      Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                        Originally posted by GhostHostJeff View Post
                        In fact I've never seen an issue with drunk guests at any Disney park that serves liquor.
                        You should try watching these videos:
                        Drunk guy at Disney World - YouTube

                        Drunk guy dancing at Epcot - YouTube

                        This last one is the worst. I removed the hyperlink due to the language, but you can paste the link into your browser window.

                        youtube.com/watch?v=rPt-uMDTTw0 Drunk Man At Disneyland Gets Pepper Sprayed -
                        "Greetings, Starfighter! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada."

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                        • #52
                          Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                          Looking at the selections, it looks like it's a variety of German beers.
                          DisneyTwins
                          Since May 2003

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                          • #53
                            Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                            Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
                            You should try watching these videos:
                            Drunk guy at Disney World - YouTube

                            Drunk guy dancing at Epcot - YouTube

                            This last one is the worst. I removed the hyperlink due to the language, but you can paste the link into your browser window.

                            youtube.com/watch?v=rPt-uMDTTw0 Drunk Man At Disneyland Gets Pepper Sprayed -
                            Of course there are going to be videos! I said from my experience. I would also like to point out the first video and just say that we do not know if this man is drunk. My friend who has a mental handicap acts like this when there is music or in public.
                            Jeff Wayne






                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                              Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                              Not really - many traditions exist simply because of habit.. some change simply out of chance. Most that persist not because they make sense or are still valid, but purely out of respect that it's a tradition in itself.
                              To me, this is a tradition that deserves respect for that reason. I've said it before, I'll say it again - I don't think there's anything wrong with consuming alcohol as long as one is of age and isn't disruptive to other guests. I enjoy a good beer at Biergarten, or the Crew's Cup, or the Rose & Crown, or a Safari Amber at DAK. But I also feel that this tradition deserves respect if for nothing else than it is symbolic of fidelity to Walt's wishes.

                              Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                              Strawman...
                              Selling walk up beer cups for carry away consumption is an entirely different application than alcohol on a dinner menu.

                              So quietly? They put it right up on the blog...
                              Limited Setting? It's almost two full pages of wine choices plus a beer selection
                              One Location? Because they are introducing a new menu here.. not everywhere?

                              Your statement infers the choice is to push alcohol everywhere at once.. and that's not what is happening. Disney is simply allowing it on a new menu. Where is this 'it must be all or nothing' rule that if you have alcohol it needs to be everywhere at once?
                              I think you misunderstood what I was saying here. I'll try to clarify. You're saying that the alcohol-free MK tradition is outdated and needs to be replaced. I obviously don't agree, but let's assume you're right for the sake of argument. If that's really true, then why not treat the MK like every other park? DHS and DAK both sell alcohol from carts in their "Hub-ish" areas. Epcot has alcohol sold at outdoor vending carts in both Future World and World Showcase. If the restriction on alcohol at the MK is outdated, why is it only being lifted in one dining location at one particular dining time/context (i.e.: "limited setting")? The fact that alcohol is now available in the MK is a massive announcement for Disney Parks - headline news - and they slipped it in at the bottom of an article that was posted late on a Thursday afternoon and will soon be off the front page. (That's what I meant by "so quietly") If alcohol at the MK really isn't a big deal, and the restriction is so outdated, I see no reason to treat it like this - just give it to the vendors and, as Disneytwins seems to be pushing for, make maximum profit.

                              Originally posted by danyoung View Post
                              Would he have seen that it really hasn't been a problem in DCA and then loosen his own booze edict in DL?
                              I don't have a problem with alcohol in DCA, but to say that it hasn't been a problem might be exaggerating things. I recall a rather highly publicized "problem" last year...

                              Originally posted by Disneytwins View Post
                              Originally posted by GhostHostJeff View Post
                              I feel like people who like to quote Walt are like religious fanatics who only like to take certain text about of the Bible.
                              Okay, now were getting into insulting territory.
                              Thanks, Disneytwins. I hope it doesn't have to come to that. I care about Walt's memory/legacy/intentions and think that the best way to honor that is to try to follow the wishes for his parks that he expressed. That's not limited to alcohol - I think Disney would do well to put this philosophy into practice throughout all their resorts as well. I don't take it personally if you disagree and hope that you don't take it personally either. I hope this can remain civil.

                              And on that topic, I'd like to apologize for unnecessary/rudeness sarcasm throughout this thread and this post in particular. All of us are passionate about Disney - that's why we're here. But it's good to keep things in perspective, and this isn't worth being rude/antagonistic about. I'm sorry that I haven't totally lived up to that.
                              I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
                              -Walt Disney

                              sigpic

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                              • #55
                                Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                Look, it would be naive to think that there aren't going to be some examples of abuse where alcohol is concerned. But I think overall it's not happening with nearly enough frequency to be a problem, even at a park like Epcot where the World Showcase is much more prone to drinking folks.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                  Originally posted by danyoung View Post
                                  Look, it would be naive to think that there aren't going to be some examples of abuse where alcohol is concerned. But I think overall it's not happening with nearly enough frequency to be a problem, even at a park like Epcot where the World Showcase is much more prone to drinking folks.
                                  Exactly. A few videos of drunk guest isn't going to change my mind as alcohol hasn't been much of an issue in the park.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                    You're all missing the point. We should not be debating whether what Walt said 50 years ago should still apply simply because Walt said it, but rather whether what Walt said still makes rational sense today for MK.

                                    In my opinion, his rationale then for not having alcohol in the parks still applies today. MK is the park most geared to young families, and alcohol creates an element and atmosphere that takes away from that safe and warm feeling I get with my kids in the park (i.e. not a carny atmosphere). There is a time and a place for alcohol, and it doesn't belong in the Be Our Guest restaurant where many young families will be dining. Every young girl who loves Belle will be eating there, and the wafting smell of alcohol should not abound while she's imbibing the dreamy atmosphere.

                                    Walt's reasoning for keeping alcohol out of the public areas of the park is as valid today as it was then. Perhaps even more so with the public's change of heart toward public drunkenness being much more negative today that it was in the past (no more three-martini lunches for businessmen, unless they want to get fired). Walt was right then, and his logic is sound today: keep alcohol out of the MK parks.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                      Originally posted by JCSkipr79 View Post
                                      Sorry, if guests kept asking to drink in MK, they should go back to teh SF/Cedar Fair parks where they belong. Obvisouly don't know what MAKES a Disney park
                                      Well then whatever it is that MAKES a Disney park is not at any of the non-Disneyland Disney parks and Six Flags Over Georgia is quite Disney. Who knew that Monster Plantation is better than the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror simply because one park is dry!

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                        Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
                                        But I also feel that this tradition deserves respect if for nothing else than it is symbolic of fidelity to Walt's wishes.
                                        I think it's something put on a pedestal for it's uniqueness more so than it's actual importance now, or to Walt.

                                        Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
                                        I think you misunderstood what I was saying here. I'll try to clarify. You're saying that the alcohol-free MK tradition is outdated and needs to be replaced. I obviously don't agree, but let's assume you're right for the sake of argument. If that's really true, then why not treat the MK like every other park?
                                        Because I would say they would introduce the product where it makes sense to do so... not just because 'HEY NOW WE CAN!'. Your premise is this is a damn, that will burst and flood the park. There is nothing to suggest that, and Disney in the other parks where they do sell alcohol still do not sell it EVERYWHERE, nor is it seen everywhere.

                                        Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
                                        If the restriction on alcohol at the MK is outdated, why is it only being lifted in one dining location at one particular dining time/context (i.e.: "limited setting")?
                                        Probably to soften the blow more than anything. Or as a test... Or any number of reasons ranging from money to change menus to lack of interest. We don't know, but there is nothing to suggest that you'll be buying buds from the balloon vendor a week later. The availability of alcohol has yet to overrun any major park except in DCA.

                                        Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
                                        The fact that alcohol is now available in the MK is a massive announcement for Disney Parks - headline news - and they slipped it in at the bottom of an article that was posted late on a Thursday afternoon and will soon be off the front page. p
                                        Headline News to the hardcore fans - probably not much more than passing curiosity to anyone else. Most guests probably don't even connect the lack of alcohol sales to being tied to something greater. And anytime you mess with change, there is an element of resistance. Why try to jump up and down over something and try to make MORE out of it when you know it's going to ruffle feathers. They added it to a menu - they didn't introduce a park wide roll out.

                                        Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
                                        I don't have a problem with alcohol in DCA, but to say that it hasn't been a problem might be exaggerating things. I recall a rather highly publicized "problem" last year...
                                        Yeah, and you still have stuff like this
                                        Trial: Woman assaulted at Disney’s Tea Cup Ride | Newsnet 14

                                        Without alcohol at the dinner table. The idea alcohol at dinner will bring in some new bad element is simply fear-mongering. It doesn't happen at the other parks where its available.

                                        Besides, the guy in the ToT video is now a fugitive from the law.. he's not the type of guy that someone just giving him some access to alcohol fueled that situation. The guy is a train wreck and not representative of what will happen if alcohol is allowed in the MK. How many videos like that can people find vs. the YEARS the other parks have had alcohol available..

                                        ---------- Post added 09-14-2012 at 02:03 AM ----------

                                        Originally posted by indianajack View Post
                                        In my opinion, his rationale then for not having alcohol in the parks still applies today. MK is the park most geared to young families, and alcohol creates an element and atmosphere that takes away from that safe and warm feeling I get with my kids in the park (i.e. not a carny atmosphere)
                                        So you feel tense and on edge in every other park on property - because they have a carny atmosphere for allowing alcohol?
                                        Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                                        Am I evil? yes, I am
                                        Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                                        Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                                        Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                          I almost don't want to join this argument...but I'm going to anyways.

                                          I agree with a lot of you -- I really hate to see public drunkenness, particularly around children, but I also don't think anyone should be a slave to tradition. But in the case of beer and wine at BoG, I think it is, as some others have said, a matter of theming and fine dining. You simply cannot have a French fine dining menu without wine. I myself do not even drink wine, but if Disney opened BoG as a French fine dining restaurant and offered nothing to drink but soft drinks and iced tea, it would be laughable.

                                          I really hope the alcohol at MK remains contained to the dinner service at BoG, though. I don't think that dinner guests having a glass or two of beer or wine is the "rowdy element" that Walt was trying to avoid. MK is not going to become a destination for binge drinkers because of this. But the idea of people just walking around MK with beers is unpleasant, so I hope that does not happen in the future.

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