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  • #61
    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
    So you feel tense and on edge in every other park on property - because they have a carny atmosphere for allowing alcohol?
    Alcohol does change the atmosphere, especially at Epcot's country pavilions. It's sometimes a carny environment at the Mexican pavilion where everyone is downing Coronas, and it gets a nasty smell.
    The alcohol is already flowing everywhere else at the resort, the one place it did not exist was MK. Is it really too much to ask to keep MK special in that regard? For just one place in the entire resort not to have alcohol? Do you really need a drink at every park?
    (Full disclosure: I do like a nice Bailey's Irish Cream at the end of the day, so I'm no teetotaler; there's a time and a place for a drink and it's not MK; if you need to drink alcohol in MK to feel the magic then you're not doing the park right).
    I've been to fine French dining restaurants in the Arabian Gulf, where of course they don't serve alcohol, and you know the food still tasted delicious. You don't need alcohol to enjoy a good meal, and Walt's point of not having alcohol around all the kids and young families was, and still is, a good policy. If anything, Disney should expand the no-alcohol policy to AK. Who needs a drink at an animal park? But it would be nice to keep MK special as the one and only place without alcohol in the huge, entire resort.

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    • #62
      Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

      I don't see why someone should be stopped to have a nice drink during a day out because other people don't want one. If one can handle it responsibly, then I don't see why not.

      Plus, I hate it when people use the argument 'because Walt said so'. That's not a real argument, that's just holding Walt aloft as infallible, which he wasn't, at all. He had some great ideas yeah, but it's not reasonable to claim doing things he wouldn't like is the end of the world.

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      • #63
        Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

        When it comes to table service dining, the Magic Kingdom has the weakest offerings of the four parks. To a certain extent this makes sense. The Magic Kingdom is aimed at a younger audience than the other parks and kids typically don't care about fancy foods and are a bit more reluctant to try new things. If Disney wants to step up its game in this area and offer some moor adult foods, it stands to reason that more adult beverages would go along with it. I never really missed the booze when I was eating burgers and chicken fingers but if I'm eating real food it might make not being able to have real drinks more obvious. That said, this is the most kid friendly park and I don't think getting drunk around a bunch of kids is anyone's idea of a good time.

        I had an idea this was coming when they announced Gaston's Tavern. What were they going to serve there, root beer? Of course they already had the Liberty Tree Tavern without Sam Adams and a pretty dry Mile Long Bar. The big question now is if this will lead to more locations where drinks are available. I'm not really worried about the public drunkenness issue since people can already get hammered doing the monorail loop pub crawl and end up in the park as long as they can keep it together just long enough to make it through the entrance.

        On it's own, this isn't the worst thing that's ever happened, but with the steady decline of standards across nearly all other aspects of the parks, this change of policy seems a bit insulting to the purists or traditionalists or whatever we call those folks these days. All it is is the latest piece of evidence that the folks in charge now just see Walt as another Disney character. He's the folky Midwestern idealist always talking about how he and his brother built the company up from nothing on the business model of quality above all else. Middle America just eats that up. They just slap his face on books or put out some DVDs of old material or start a fan club, but that's it. He's just the character they sell to adults the same way they sell Mickey to toddlers, Cinderella to 8 year olds, and whoever the teen idol is this year. Nobody has actually believed any of the stuff Walt said in years. They have a company to run for crying out loud. They don't need advice from a guy that died half a century ago and built a successful entertainment business out of nothing.
        It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.
        sigpic

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        • #64
          Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

          Im not here to argue, just offering my feelings on the subject. The only reason my family started going to Disney parks in the first place was the atmosphere that the lack of booze created. The fact that I could go up to any food/ drink cart and get anything I wanted without worrying about getting in trouble for ordering something alcoholic by accident (has happened multiple times at DCA) was very unique to Disney. It really was more family friendly in every sense of word.

          The addition of alcohol to the parks, although not a particularly offensive addition, is IMO another example of declining by degrees. It is the small things that Disney does different from its competitors that makes its parks so much better. You remove the small things and the difference between Disney, Six Flags, Universal, ect are nill. Like others said, Walt's choice to not include booze was completely uncharacteristic of the business. It was revolutionary, as were many of the other small things Walt did.

          The small things Walt did were what made Disneyland (and later WDW) so successful. Walt could have easily sold booze in his parks. He could have also easily not added attractions that included the whole family. He could have also easily added merchandise carts and other sly ways of sucking more money out of customers pockets. The fact that Walt chose to not do any of these things says a lot (considering all were common place before Disneyland). Corporate Disney is slowly shooting itself in the foot by slowly removing the very principles that made it different and "magic." Over the past 10-15 years we have seen Disney attempt to remove all the principles that made the company successful (DCA 1.0 vs family friendly rides, Merchandise carts/ Main Street turned into turn of the century themed mall vs not sucking all the money out a customers pockets, alcohol added to the magic kingdom vs no booze in the parks, ect). It really is baffling that the company has lost its way so far that they don't even know the small things that made them successful in the first place.

          And anyone who thinks this will remain the only place to purchase alcohol in the parks I hope so but highly unlikely. Once the barrier is crossed, history doesn't suggest that they will stop. And if you don't think people get drunk in the parks, I can testify that it happends a lot (especially in EPCOT). I've only been to WDW 2 times and both times I was approached/ assaulted by moderate to extremely drunk individuals in World Showcase both trips.
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          • #65
            Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

            So far, I like this spirited thread about spirits! I toast the many of you who have written strong and clear posts without ever mentioning Nazis.

            For those who think this might make the MK like the touristy section of New Orleans on a Saturday night, remember that what Disney allows, Disney can take away if it doesn't work out.

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            • #66
              Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

              So after taking the night to think about this, here are my 2 cents.

              1. I will probably end up having a drink at Be Our Guest when I dine there.
              2. I don't believe that this is final nail in the coffin.
              3. I don't think this will lead to mass drunks roaming the parks like zombies.

              I think what bothers me is this: While I agree with the business case, and it really isn't a big deal, to me it was just something that was part of Walt's legacy. And in all honesty I kind of equate this to if they turned the Fire House Suite at DL into an office, or cafe, or lounge. Is it going to ruin the park? No. But does it make the separation from Walt even further, yes. And sadly that is inevitable.
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              • #67
                Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                O.K., here is my take. You have to look at what Walt said and what he DID too

                "No liquor, no beer, nothing. Because that brings in a rowdy element. That brings people that we don't want and I feel they don't need it. I feel when I go down to the park I don't need a drink. I work around that place all day and I don't have one. After I come out of a heavy day at the studio sometimes I want a drink to relax."

                .....and then he planned for Club 33 to serve drinks in the park. Why? Well, he SAYS why. Walt was not anti-alcohol. He says in that very statement that he drinks sometimes, but he wanted to avoid drinks in the park "BEACUSE that brings in a rowdy element." His point was not to make some valiant stand against booze. He was obviously O.K. with Club 33, and the logical conclusion is that he felt this exception would not bring in the rowdy element (makes sense, Club 33 is extremely exclusive and would cater to a decidedly "non-rowdy" clientele).

                The entire situation has changed. The single day trip, free admission, local place dynamic that Disneyland had when it opened is unrecognizable to the average WDW customer who traveled across the country to spend multiple days at the "vacation Kingdom." The parks are no longer free admission; they actually cost an arm and a leg to get into, this alone affects the type of crowd it attracts and how they behave. So, I believe, the question should not be whether or not alcohol should be allowed in the parks, but weather it's availability will bring in a rowdy un-family friendly crowd.


                so, we can argue that back and forth, but I think the idea that it’s mere presence is something that would make Walt turn in his grave both takes him out of context and misses what his reasons where in the first place.
                Last edited by mkcoastie; 09-14-2012, 09:07 AM.

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                • #68
                  Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                  So to sum up, cheap easy to obtain booze bad. Expensive limited availability booze good.

                  You know, I kind of agree with that.
                  "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."

                  -Mark Twain

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                  • #69
                    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                    Originally posted by Moonliner View Post
                    So to sum up, cheap easy to obtain booze bad. Expensive limited availability booze good.

                    You know, I kind of agree with that.
                    so the one person who agrees with me has this as their tag line:

                    "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."

                    -Mark Twain


                    hmmmm.......not sure how I should feel now
                    (joking)

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                    • #70
                      Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                      Originally posted by Scorchio View Post
                      Plus, I hate it when people use the argument 'because Walt said so'. That's not a real argument, that's just holding Walt aloft as infallible, which he wasn't, at all. He had some great ideas yeah, but it's not reasonable to claim doing things he wouldn't like is the end of the world.
                      Yes!

                      Walt enjoyed smoking in the parks. Things change and this being considered the "Last Sacred Cow Slaughtered" is just comedy to me. I was expecting something way more serious.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                        While it's always been fairly easy to get a drink when you want one (pop over to the Poly or Contemporary), not having it sold in the park itself did set a tone that was unusual and a bit special. While it's certainly not the end of the world, it was a nice little tradition that I'm not ashamed to say I'll miss.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                          Originally posted by GhostHostJeff View Post
                          Disneyland Paris serves some alcoholic beverages and I never saw a problem when I was there. In fact I've never seen an issue with drunk guests at any Disney park that serves liquor. IMO if people want to get drunk they will somewhere else and come to MK.
                          The only time I ever had a problem with drunks was at EPCOT during the food and wine festival, there are certainly more than a few that don't know their own limitations.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                            At least I can now have a nice glass of wine with my steak from the sacred cow.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                              Originally posted by Melonballer View Post
                              At least I can now have a nice glass of wine with my steak from the sacred cow.
                              Funny!

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                              • #75
                                Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                Sometimes I wish people would put quotes into a context.. because just posting Walt's quote about why he didn't want alcohol in Disneyland at the time does not mean that it would have stayed that way.

                                Remember why Walt built Disneyland in the first place. At the time, you had amusement parks all over the country, and, yes, they did serve alcohol. and yes, there was a rowdy element.. which is why Walt made his decree at the time.

                                Things are different now.

                                I remember hearing many times from friends and others around me wishing that the Blue Bayou would have wine to go with the revamped menu they introduced a while back. This wont happen, but it would be nice if it would. It's not like they'll have a lounge where you can get liquored up.

                                This has just been a jumble of thoughts.. but thanks for your time.
                                tick tock tick tock madness comes tonight
                                what's reality compared to me
                                I rest on the bed and I'm sure I slowly get mad
                                I'm in a state of mind which makes me blind
                                for the fact that I'm a man
                                I'm here to stay forever but not today

                                --
                                Timekiller - Project Pitchfork

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                                • #76
                                  Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                  Really, this might sound rude, but the only people who will drink are probably going to be middle aged men who bring their children, those are the only people I saw drinking at Epcot, one woman about my age was a liiittttle bit plastered, but I really don't think anyone will have too much in the Magic Kingdom, honestly, who gets drunk in the Magic kingdom? While I don't believe that drinking is necessary in the disney parks. I don't think anyone needs to worry about rowdyness. Having just turned of the drinking age, I should want alcohol everywhere, so I'm told. Not at Disney though. I thought it was unnecessary at Epcot. But I guess they NOT a cultural experience.

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                                  • #77
                                    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                    Originally posted by Sunshine711 View Post
                                    Really, this might sound rude, but the only people who will drink are probably going to be middle aged men who bring their children, those are the only people I saw drinking at Epcot
                                    Not a good assumption...

                                    Go back and find a trip report from the Micechat crew themselves on their EPCOT trips.. and the majority of them don't have kids.. and they are largely 50/50 in male/female
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                                    Am I evil? yes, I am
                                    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                                    Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                                    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

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                                    • #78
                                      Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                      Teetotaling Bronco from Utah, I wasn't going to respond to your post (#64 on page 5), but a couple of things in it are still bugging me a day after I read it. I've quoted part of it below.
                                      Originally posted by Bronco21 View Post
                                      . . . The only reason
                                      my family started going to Disney parks in the first place
                                      was the atmosphere that the lack of booze created.
                                      The fact that I could go up to any food/ drink cart and get anything I wanted without worrying about getting in trouble
                                      [Trouble? From whom and exactly for what?] for ordering something alcoholic by accident (has happened multiple times at DCA) was very unique to Disney. . .
                                      . . if you don't think people get drunk in the parks, I can testify that it happends a lot (especially in EPCOT). I've only been to WDW 2 times and both times I was approached/ assaulted by moderate to extremely drunk individuals in World Showcase both trips.
                                      EPCOT has been selling delicious alcoholic beverages to responsible adults since it opened, yet you visited EPCOT twice. And you claim that you have ("multiple times") at DCA ordered alcohol accidentally. Have you also ever "accidentally" gotten a lap dance at a strip club? ["Your honor I object to JCruise86's. . " "Withdrawn." "Jcruise, you're this close to the litter box!" "Sorry, your honor."]

                                      Mr. Bronco, that's pretty bad luck being "assaulted" by drunk people both times you went to EPCOT. I have never been assaulted by a drunk person in my life and I'm from Milwaukee, "a city that means beer," and I bartended for a couple of years.

                                      I have never before questioned the veracity of a Micechat witness before, but ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask you to reread Bronco21's testimony over carefully before you deny us Irish Catholics the pleasure of a little nip with dinner. If Mr. Romney & Mr. Ryan can exist on the same ticket, can't we all just get along? I rest, till another Micechatter inspires my incontinent fingertips.

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                                      • #79
                                        Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                        Originally posted by jcruise86 View Post
                                        Teetotaling Bronco from Utah, I wasn't going to respond to your post (#64 on page 5), but a couple of things in it are still bugging me a day after I read it. I've quoted part of it below.

                                        EPCOT has been selling delicious alcoholic beverages to responsible adults since it opened, yet you visited EPCOT twice. And you claim that you have ("multiple times") at DCA ordered alcohol accidentally. Have you also ever "accidentally" gotten a lap dance at a strip club? ["Your honor I object to JCruise86's. . " "Withdrawn." "Jcruise, you're this close to the litter box!" "Sorry, your honor."]

                                        Mr. Bronco, that's pretty bad luck being "assaulted" by drunk people both times you went to EPCOT. I have never been assaulted by a drunk person in my life and I'm from Milwaukee, "a city that means beer," and I bartended for a couple of years.

                                        I have never before questioned the veracity of a Micechat witness before, but ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask you to reread Bronco21's testimony over carefully before you deny us Irish Catholics the pleasure of a little nip with dinner. If Mr. Romney & Mr. Ryan can exist on the same ticket, can't we all just get along? I rest, till another Micechatter inspires my incontinent fingertips.
                                        Umm idk what about my post really warranted this response, but I was shoved to the ground, bumped into in line, and had heavily intoxicated guests lay down very very close to me (inside my bubble). Sure I have only been twice, but from my experience (maybe I worded it wrong the first time) unorderly drunk guests is a cause for alarm.

                                        As for DCA, when you are 12 and a CM firmly explains that you cannot purchase that particular item because it has booze in it, (especially for someone as shy as myself) it can be very upsetting. You can argue all you want about booze in the Magic Kingdom (frankly I don't care), but calling my experiences out because you don't agree with my point of view is baffling to me. I never said I wanted prohibition back, I stated why I don't like the addition of alcohol to the Magic Kingdom. If you don't like my point of view, fine I really am not going to get upset about Disney choosing to sell alcohol in the parks.

                                        What I do get upset with is the fact that you used stereotypes about Utah to classify my Political party, preferences about alcohol, ect. I'm from Utah get over it. You're from Milwaukee? Good for you. What does that have to do with my feelings of Disney additions? I come to Micechat to discuss what I feel about the parks, I don't come here to talk about my political or religious beliefs and, if I'm not mistaken, is banned according to Micechat rules. Anyways, have fun expressing your happiness about booze in the parks. Meanwhile I will be busy enjoying Disneyland where booze has yet to infiltrate.
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                                        • #80
                                          Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                          Originally posted by Bronco21 View Post
                                          Umm idk what about my post really warranted this response, but I was shoved to the ground, bumped into in line, and had heavily intoxicated guests lay down very very close to me (inside my bubble). Sure I have only been twice, but from my experience (maybe I worded it wrong the first time) unorderly drunk guests is a cause for alarm.

                                          As for DCA, when you are 12 and a CM firmly explains that you cannot purchase that particular item because it has booze in it, (especially for someone as shy as myself) it can be very upsetting. You can argue all you want about booze in the Magic Kingdom (frankly I don't care), but calling my experiences out because you don't agree with my point of view is baffling to me. I never said I wanted prohibition back, I stated why I don't like the addition of alcohol to the Magic Kingdom. If you don't like my point of view, fine I really am not going to get upset about Disney choosing to sell alcohol in the parks.

                                          What I do get upset with is the fact that you used stereotypes about Utah to classify my Political party, preferences about alcohol, ect. I'm from Utah get over it. You're from Milwaukee? Good for you. What does that have to do with my feelings of Disney additions? I come to Micechat to discuss what I feel about the parks, I don't come here to talk about my political or religious beliefs and, if I'm not mistaken, is banned according to Micechat rules. Anyways, have fun expressing your happiness about booze in the parks. Meanwhile I will be busy enjoying Disneyland where booze has yet to infiltrate.
                                          :clap:

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