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  • #81
    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

    They're serving wine with dinner at an upscale restaurant. Some of you are acting like they'll be selling bottles of vodka on the ODV carts.

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    • #82
      Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

      Here is how i feel(like anyone cares....lol ) The other "fine dining" resturaunts serve alcohol though out the resort. I think it would be nice to have a fine dining experience with your kids without the presence of any booze. They had the opportunity to achieve this there, and they blew it. Kids are the base of what the MK was based on. Dont get me wrong, i love a cold beer or glass of wine with my meals like many other people do. As for there being drunks at the MK, dont think there isnt a bottle or 2 stashed in a diaper bag on the lot of MK.

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      • #83
        Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

        Originally posted by redrhino54 View Post
        Here is how i feel(like anyone cares....lol ) The other "fine dining" resturaunts serve alcohol though out the resort. I think it would be nice to have a fine dining experience with your kids without the presence of any booze. They had the opportunity to achieve this there, and they blew it. Kids are the base of what the MK was based on. Dont get me wrong, i love a cold beer or glass of wine with my meals like many other people do. As for there being drunks at the MK, dont think there isnt a bottle or 2 stashed in a diaper bag on the lot of MK.
        I have been to MK with people who have replaced their water bottles with Vodka or Gin, and are completely hammered by noon.
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        • #84
          Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

          Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
          Because I would say they would introduce the product where it makes sense to do so... not just because 'HEY NOW WE CAN!'. Your premise is this is a damn, that will burst and flood the park. There is nothing to suggest that, and Disney in the other parks where they do sell alcohol still do not sell it EVERYWHERE, nor is it seen everywhere.

          Probably to soften the blow more than anything. Or as a test... Or any number of reasons ranging from money to change menus to lack of interest. We don't know, but there is nothing to suggest that you'll be buying buds from the balloon vendor a week later. The availability of alcohol has yet to overrun any major park except in DCA.
          You still seem to misunderstand so I'll try this again. I'm not asking for the business reasons behind why Disney has chosen to only roll this out at Be Our Guest for the time being - I could've come up with the same conjectural answers on my own. I'm asking you, philosophically, if the MK is just like every other park and the tradition is meaningless/outdated, why shouldn't Disney be selling alcohol from kiosks in the hub (as the equivalent happens at the three other parks in WDW)? If there's nothing special about the MK or the tradition, then why shouldn't it be available as freely in the MK as it is in other parks?

          Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
          Headline News to the hardcore fans - probably not much more than passing curiosity to anyone else.
          Who do you think the Disney Parks blog is written for?

          Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
          Yeah, and you still have stuff like this
          Trial: Woman assaulted at Disney’s Tea Cup Ride | Newsnet 14

          Without alcohol at the dinner table. The idea alcohol at dinner will bring in some new bad element is simply fear-mongering. It doesn't happen at the other parks where its available.
          I did not, have not, and am not advancing the argument that you seem to be arguing against here. As I've said numerous times before, I don't have a problem with alcohol in the parks categorically, and don't believe that this will lead to a bad element in the parks. (If so, I'm a part of that element as I imbibe myself sometimes at Epcot and DAK.) My concern is with the tradition in the MK and what it stands for.

          ---------- Post added 09-16-2012 at 09:36 PM ----------

          Originally posted by Dapper Dan View Post
          Of course they already had the Liberty Tree Tavern without Sam Adams and a pretty dry Mile Long Bar. The big question now is if this will lead to more locations where drinks are available. I'm not really worried about the public drunkenness issue since people can already get hammered doing the monorail loop pub crawl and end up in the park as long as they can keep it together just long enough to make it through the entrance.

          On it's own, this isn't the worst thing that's ever happened, but with the steady decline of standards across nearly all other aspects of the parks, this change of policy seems a bit insulting to the purists or traditionalists or whatever we call those folks these days. All it is is the latest piece of evidence that the folks in charge now just see Walt as another Disney character. He's the folky Midwestern idealist always talking about how he and his brother built the company up from nothing on the business model of quality above all else. Middle America just eats that up. They just slap his face on books or put out some DVDs of old material or start a fan club, but that's it. He's just the character they sell to adults the same way they sell Mickey to toddlers, Cinderella to 8 year olds, and whoever the teen idol is this year. Nobody has actually believed any of the stuff Walt said in years. They have a company to run for crying out loud. They don't need advice from a guy that died half a century ago and built a successful entertainment business out of nothing.
          Once again, perfectly stated Dapper Dan. Couldn't have said it better myself. :clap:

          ---------- Post added 09-16-2012 at 09:42 PM ----------

          Originally posted by mkcoastie View Post
          .....and then he planned for Club 33 to serve drinks in the park. Why? Well, he SAYS why. Walt was not anti-alcohol. He says in that very statement that he drinks sometimes, but he wanted to avoid drinks in the park "BEACUSE that brings in a rowdy element." His point was not to make some valiant stand against booze. He was obviously O.K. with Club 33, and the logical conclusion is that he felt this exception would not bring in the rowdy element (makes sense, Club 33 is extremely exclusive and would cater to a decidedly "non-rowdy" clientele).
          If you're going to try to put Walt's statement in context, then you have to really put it in context. Club 33, as originally planned during Walt's lifetime, was going to be more than just "extremely exclusive" - it was a private restaurant for Walt to entertain his personal guests. The private club that anyone (with the money) could apply to didn't come until later. So, in essence, Walt was OK with alcohol for him, his family, and his VIP guests.

          I would agree with you that alcohol at Be Our Guest wouldn't necessarily make Walt turn in his grave (the current transportation situation and abandonment of EPCOT at WDW would do that) but it's one more step away from a tradition that honored Walt. Why? Because TDO decided it was worth making a few extra bucks. That's disappointing.

          ---------- Post added 09-16-2012 at 09:52 PM ----------

          One last point... A lot of people have said the reason we need this is because lots of guests ask where they can get a drink in the MK and are incredulous/perturbed to find out that they need to go elsewhere for booze.

          That may or may not be a valid reason for alcohol in the MK (I personally think it isn't), but adding drinks to Be Our Guest at dinner doesn't help that problem at all. Now, instead of saying "I'm sorry sir, you'll have to visit one of the resorts or other parks," the CMs will say, "I'm sorry sir, you'll have to visit one of the resorts or other parks, or try to get into this fairly expensive restaurant (for dinner only) that generally requires reservations 6 months in advance, and there you'll be able to order a wine or beer (but no more than two) which you cannot leave the restaurant with."

          Does that really address that "problem??"
          Last edited by PSUMark; 09-16-2012, 05:43 PM.
          I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
          -Walt Disney

          sigpic

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          • #85
            Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

            Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
            You still seem to misunderstand so I'll try this again. I'm not asking for the business reasons behind why Disney has chosen to only roll this out at Be Our Guest for the time being - I could've come up with the same conjectural answers on my own. I'm asking you, philosophically, if the MK is just like every other park and the tradition is meaningless/outdated, why shouldn't Disney be selling alcohol from kiosks in the hub (as the equivalent happens at the three other parks in WDW)? If there's nothing special about the MK or the tradition, then why shouldn't it be available as freely in the MK as it is in other parks?
            For the same reasons they don't sell pretzels at every food station... or ice cream.. or frozen slushies.

            Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
            Who do you think the Disney Parks blog is written for?
            A lot wider audience then the hardcore fans. From what I've seen on most sites, the majority isn't concerned with this.

            Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
            I did not, have not, and am not advancing the argument that you seem to be arguing against here. As I've said numerous times before, I don't have a problem with alcohol in the parks categorically, and don't believe that this will lead to a bad element in the parks. (If so, I'm a part of that element as I imbibe myself sometimes at Epcot and DAK.) My concern is with the tradition in the MK and what it stands for.
            If you don't believe it will bring in a bad element, there is no reason to cherish the old policy. The policy was based on Walt's opinion that bringing in alcohol would bring in a rowdy element. If you don't agree it will, why hold onto a concept you've admitted is based on a fallacy? People are more attached to the notion of a 'walt-ism' instead of looking at what Walt was trying to do.
            Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


            Am I evil? yes, I am
            Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

            Originally posted by sleepyjeff
            Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

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            • #86
              Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

              Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
              For the same reasons they don't sell pretzels at every food station... or ice cream.. or frozen slushies.
              If my question had been, "Why shouldn't they serve alcohol at literally every TSR/QSR/stand/ODF location in the MK?" your response would make sense. My question actually was, "Why shouldn't it be available as freely in the MK as it is in other parks?" It's a simple truth that all three of the other parks sell alcohol from kiosks in central locations. If the tradition is outdated/pointless and the MK is just like every other park, why shouldn't the MK do that?

              Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
              If you don't believe it will bring in a bad element, there is no reason to cherish the old policy.
              That's your opinion; mine differs. I believe the tradition is valuable simply for its own sake and what it symbolizes. I also personally like the quaintness and innocence of an alcohol-free MK and, even as someone who enjoys a good beer, I don't think there's a need for alcohol in the MK.
              I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
              -Walt Disney

              sigpic

              Comment


              • #87
                Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
                If my question had been, "Why shouldn't they serve alcohol at literally every TSR/QSR/stand/ODF location in the MK?" your response would make sense. My question actually was, "Why shouldn't it be available as freely in the MK as it is in other parks?"
                The answer is the same.. the food servings are based on decisions of what to offer, where.. not just a free for all. I could really care less if they sold it as a ODV because I doubt many people would buy it. I've never ever seen a alcohol container be an issue anywhere on property other than World Showcase. I doubt it's availability would all of a sudden cause this great surge of tailgating mentality everyone is so scared of.. since it doesn't exist anywhere else on property (except again.. World Showcase.. mainly agitated during F&W)

                Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
                That's your opinion; mine differs. I believe the tradition is valuable simply for its own sake and what it symbolizes
                So you acknowledge your hold is purely on resisting changing the status quo and not actual concern over the impact of change. Thankfully, the company has been more progressive than you, and has acknowledged such emotional death-grips aren't warranted. Else, we'd wouldn't have females in executive positions, their open policy on gays, seasonal overlays, DME, and lots of other things that Walt didn't or wouldn't do.. but it made sense to MOVE ON and evaluate things in a accurate context.
                Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                Am I evil? yes, I am
                Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

                Comment


                • #88
                  Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                  Oh heaven forbid... someone wants to have some Wine with their $80 dinner...

                  Come on people, it's 2012... lighten up a bit.

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                  • #89
                    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                    Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                    So you acknowledge your hold is purely on resisting changing the status quo and not actual concern over the impact of change. Thankfully, the company has been more progressive than you, and has acknowledged such emotional death-grips aren't warranted. Else, we'd wouldn't have females in executive positions, their open policy on gays, seasonal overlays, DME, and lots of other things that Walt didn't or wouldn't do.. but it made sense to MOVE ON and evaluate things in a accurate context.
                    You're putting words in my mouth going WAY beyond what I said and I think this is pretty uncalled for and borders on personal attack. I like this particular tradition for what it represents and want it to continue. Your implication that the policies regarding female executives or same-sex partner benefits or seasonal overlays somehow represent "traditions" is absurd and beneath your usual quality of contribution to MiceChat. The fact that I like this tradition for what it represents doesn't mean that I have an obsession with the status quo and I certainly don't want things frozen in 1966 or 1971 or 1982 or some other arbitrary year. There are a TON of things about the status quo that I wish would change and Disney is all too comfortable with.

                    I'm fully capable of having an opinion on things that's nuanced enough to think that some things should change and others shouldn't. The fact that you seem to think change vs. tradition is an all or nothing trade-off would imply that you're the extremist here; not me.
                    I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
                    -Walt Disney

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                      How is it respecting tradition when you pick and chose which practices from the same man were worthy of continuation and ones that are not?

                      You end up making those distinctions by evaluating the practice again, in the now, rather than following them blindly. Yet that is an evaluation some refuse to do. To behave that way justifiably would mean to follow all past behaviors blindly... And as already pointed out, we can see how flawed a mentality that would be.
                      Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                      Am I evil? yes, I am
                      Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                      Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                      Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                        Originally posted by Disneytwins View Post
                        Walt didn't want alcohol in the parks because the thought it would bring rowdiness. The price of the beer prohibits the rowdiness lol

                        My attitude towards "It a money move" doesn't concern me. A company is supposed to find ways to increase profits, not sit there and look pretty.
                        Walt didn't want his parks to stink of flat beer like county fairs, boardwalks and other amusement parks of his time often did. The sale of expensive drinks at Epcot, DCA and Disneyland Paris have not had that effect. This won't either.
                        Fight On!:sc: Beat the Red Wolves!

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                        • #92
                          Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                          WOW ok it's taken me awhile to catch up to this thread in it's entirety, PSUMark I understand your points I think, you think that we should honor tradition for the traditions sake of it...i.e. not serving booze at the MK since the park was built up until now, but do you really think that TWDC corporation would not have done feeler surveys, talked to guests, repeat guests, and the like before coming to this decision to break with tradition? If it would have been shown that many people who visit the MK would like to keep the park alcohol free, or break from that tradition and be allowed to order a glass of cherry(sp?) or beer with their dinner?

                          I mean I can see why people don't agree that alcohol should be allowed in the park, personally I can take it or leave it, I won't order a 9$+ pint of beer at the restaurant but some people enjoy that one pint and leave it at that. Automatically it seems that some people are assuming that this will lead some people to abuse the policy and get hand over fist plastered, as a former waiter I can say that it is part of the waiter's responsibilities to monitor their guests and prevent that sort of thing. If an accident happens after that person is intoxicated and is allowed to leave the restaurant, the restaurant and waiter are held responsible for not helping to prevent that accident.

                          Overall I think some people need to take a step back, take a deep breath and come back. Emotions are obviously running high in this thread and it's more productive to leave these intense emotions out of it.
                          The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.
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                          • #93
                            Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                            Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                            How is it respecting tradition when you pick and chose which practices from the same man were worthy of continuation and ones that are not?

                            You end up making those distinctions by evaluating the practice again, in the now, rather than following them blindly. Yet that is an evaluation some refuse to do. To behave that way justifiably would mean to follow all past behaviors blindly... And as already pointed out, we can see how flawed a mentality that would be.
                            And perhaps my criteria are different. Perhaps I value the tradition because it was in fact intentionally kept as a *tradition* and not a policy that just happened to be in effect at the time of Walt's death (as opposed to, for instance, a lack of seasonal overlays). Perhaps I value the quaintness and uniqueness of an alcohol free Magic Kingdom (or DL or TDL or HKDL). We can keep going back and forth on this forever, but your insistence that one is a slave to the past unless they come to your exact conclusion on this particular issue is both arrogant and absurd.
                            I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
                            -Walt Disney

                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                              Originally posted by PSUMark View Post
                              We can keep going back and forth on this forever, but your insistence that one is a slave to the past unless they come to your exact conclusion on this particular issue is both arrogant and absurd.
                              I only expect equal action and logic. Picking and choosing which is 'policy' and which is 'tradition' without looking at their roots and how they came to be is not looking at things fairly or logically.
                              Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                              Am I evil? yes, I am
                              Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                              Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                              Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                By putting alcohol into MK, it's another dent in the Disney Difference. The park becomes more like Universal and other theme parks. MK is the only place in the huge resort that does not have alcohol; that made it special. The Be Our Guest restaurant is targeted at young families, particularly with little girls, there's no need to add alcohol to the menu looking at the target demographic except to make a few extra bucks... but at the cost (again) of what made MK magical in the first place.

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                                • #96
                                  Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                  Why does a lack of alcohol make a park special? I've never gone to a magic kingdom park and thought "wow, you know what makes this park great? The lack of booze!" Epcot and Animal Kkngdom are special because they're great parks. Booze or no booze. Why do we care about something Walt said years ago about a park that isn't the park we're talking about? Let the people drink. Those of us who don't want to don't have to. Once again, we've officially run out of problems if this is the issue that is binding our panties.

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                                  • #97
                                    Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                    Originally posted by Pizzapants View Post
                                    Why does a lack of alcohol make a park special? I've never gone to a magic kingdom park and thought "wow, you know what makes this park great? The lack of booze!"
                                    To be fair, there are many things about the Magic Kingdom experience that register at subsconscious levels, without the guest actually stopping and consxioulsy thinking about them. That's part of the "magic."

                                    Anyway, I think it's a pretty big leap from "I liked this particular quaint little tradition" to "GRAR ALL CHANGE BAD." Nostalgia is an incalculably huge part of the MK.

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                                    • #98
                                      Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                      Man, people really will complain about anything.


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                                      • #99
                                        Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                        So... Walt said the now infamous "rowdy" quote about DL... So if it mattered at all today then why is "booze" allowed in all other parks? If it was that sacred wouldn't it been across the board altogether? Also, as far as drunks roaming the parks... That's a bunch of bull. I've been a drunk roaming Epcot before and I didn't rain on anyone else's parade.
                                        The whole things is a wine or a fine beer with a meal. Big deal. It's friggin happening so quite whining about it.
                                        He felt like his life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.
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                                        • Re: Last Sacred Cow Slaugthered. BOOZE IN MK

                                          A bunch of you are acting like it's being sold at vending stands. It's in ONE location in the park, and guests can't even leave the restaurant with it. Some of you are so ridiculously petty and bitter.


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