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  • [Chat] WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

    So this post is just a means of opening a conversation. Lately there have been many comments, posts etc. that mention the deplorable conditions of WDW properties. As a passholder and DVC member I notice these things as well. Many people want to blame Disney executives and the cost cutting measures that have been employed that reduce maintenance and upkeep as well as general daily cleaning. While I too feel that conditions within WDW can be attributed somewhat to budgetary reasons from management, I also believe that the attitude of guests have changed as well and can be just as much, if not more so, to blame for cleanliness and conditions within the parks.

    In my many years of visiting I have noticed more and more how careless people are towards where they leave their trash as well as how badly they treat their surroundings. How many times have you seen parents who let their children climb on rockwork, swing from chains on stanchions, stand on trash bins during parades? I see it all the time. How does Disney combat this? Yes, they could hire a legion of staff to monitor everywhere and pick up every piece of trash that is left behind but what would this do to the already skyrocketing prices?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend Disney entirely in this. I understand that there are certain things that are not guest related that still need work (attraction animatronics for instance) but there are always outside influences that can have an effect for which there is not always an easy answer.

    Feel free to add your comments.

  • #2
    Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

    I think with Disney not caring enough about its parks, the guest stop caring so much too. And it makes a vicious cycle. But yes your right both guests and Disney need to start caring more!

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    • #3
      Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

      Originally posted by DisneySam View Post
      While I too feel that conditions within WDW can be attributed somewhat to budgetary reasons from management, I also believe that the attitude of guests have changed as well and can be just as much, if not more so, to blame for cleanliness and conditions within the parks.
      I agree with the previous poster that it's a cycle the Disney doesn't put to an end.

      Also I think when comparing to the better DLR, the guests there have ownership of thier home park and take more care. In WDW too many on a vacation to someplace else to care about it.
      Be Cool Stay in School!
      Next year I'm trying for a summer internship at Stark Industries.

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      • #4
        Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

        The issue of wear and tear caused by guests is a drop in the bucket when it comes to discussing what is wrong with WDW.

        Kids climbing on rock work is a non-issue compared to broken show elements (i.e. Big Thunder and the Yeti) and a Tree of Life shedding its' branches.

        Disney can't always control some of what guests do, but they can certainly choose to maintain their resort at a higher level.
        My Micechat cruise trip report, Part 1:http://micechat.com/14795-disney-wonder/

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        • #5
          Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

          I meant it as mainly for the cleanness of the park.. It could work its way into the cleanness of the rides. Disney could slowly turn this around with showing more pride in the parks, and try to get the locals to have pride in there local park by not trashing it and what not. With the people having more pride, id like to think that Disney staff would also have more pride in keeping the rides up to date, and working properly.. but one can only hope. Who knows what it will take at this point.

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          • #6
            Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

            I agree, people are becoming uncaring pigs. Far too many people are being brought up to have no respect for public property, let alone a place like Disney.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

              Originally posted by deathcomesarippin View Post
              I meant it as mainly for the cleanness of the park.. It could work its way into the cleanness of the rides. Disney could slowly turn this around with showing more pride in the parks, and try to get the locals to have pride in there local park by not trashing it and what not. With the people having more pride, id like to think that Disney staff would also have more pride in keeping the rides up to date, and working properly.. but one can only hope. Who knows what it will take at this point.
              Good luck getting the American population to respect property, the mentality of "it's not mine I don't care, they hire janitors for a reason" is embedded in a lot of people. It's pretty obvious after MSE at park closure (I always stick an hour or two after closing time to just enjoy the empty park and the maintenance lights popping from their hiding place) how the hub and Main Street are an absolute mess and there is a small army of people pushing giant vacuums cleaning up all the rubbish. Hell this problem isn't even new, Adventure Thru Inner Space was a trashcan, the piles of discarded food created a vague ozone smell and the projection screens, sets and even ride vehicles were being damaged by people didn't give a crap. Disney can't just entice people into respecting their parks, they have to keep them highly maintained at all times or else they slip.

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              • #8
                Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

                I dont' know. Put some cartoon drawings of Disney kids throwing away their own trash in the buses and various spots in the parks. I said "their own trash" not everyone elses. They could also do an animated feature or use actors in a tv spot to play in the rooms to get some of the people visiting.

                I may help a little because some adults don't care but their kids might encourage their own parents to clean up after themselves.

                I mean look how society treats their own movie theatres. they are trashed after each showing. Yet the company has adapted to it but cleaning it up. Disney does clean up the mess, maybe not as fast as some would like but they do clean it up.

                I don't know. I don't see a trashy theme park when I visited this past november. Or Disneyland back in the summertime. Over WDW back last halloween. I just don't see the trash as an issue with the parks. I see trash in aisles at Target. In people's own cars.

                Maybe Disney can only do so much to keep up with people's bad habits.

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                • #9
                  Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

                  Walt would cry. He would always be the first guy to pick up trash in his park if he ever spotted it.

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                  • #10
                    Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

                    BandM has it right about Americas lazy mindset. And I really like Micoofy ducks idea about the little cartoons and signs here and there to help remind people to stop being lazy and disrespectful. Its sad that might have to happen.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

                      Originally posted by maddogjoe View Post
                      I agree, people are becoming uncaring pigs. Far too many people are being brought up to have no respect for public property, let alone a place like Disney.
                      +1 it's amazing how careless some people in this country are..Disney though should make adjustments to this, however small to attempt to keep the parks & grounds cleaner than they are...
                      The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.
                      -George S. Patton

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                      • #12
                        Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

                        Originally posted by ORD84 View Post
                        +1 it's amazing how careless some people in this country are..Disney though should make adjustments to this, however small to attempt to keep the parks & grounds cleaner than they are...
                        Wasn't there a joke about people putting pennies in a grate in the Transformers queue?

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                        • #13
                          Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

                          I think all the problems still mostly stem from the lack of upkeep by Disney. People treat things differently when they're new and shiny. Fading paint, rusty fixtures, cracked pavement, and the like all add up subconsciously. If things are a little run down anyways, people don't worry so much about their own impact.
                          "The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing" -Walt Disney

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                          • #14
                            Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

                            The old philosophy was to keep the place so clean that people would be embarrassed to throw anything on the ground. When the park stopped caring about keeping themselves clean, so did the guests.
                            It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by deathcomesarippin View Post
                              I think with Disney not caring enough about its parks, the guest stop caring so much too. And it makes a vicious cycle. But yes your right both guests and Disney need to start caring more!
                              More than a few years ago I attended the air show in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, which attracts about 800,000 people. I noticed that despite being around over a hundred thousand snacking individuals that day, I didn't see one piece of litter anywhere.

                              I just Googled "Oshkosh air show litter" and came across this from a website:


                              "Littering:
                              It simply is not done at OSH. Wisconsin is known for being aggressively neat. Littering is, I think, a capital crime. Bastinado is too good for those jerks who throw things on the ground at AirVenture, keelhauling the violator at the seaplane base is probably the way to go. If you see a piece of trash on the ground, pick it up and put it in one of the nearby trash containers. Walking past litter is considered a breach of etiquette nearly as serious as dropping the stuff in the first place."
                              There's no place like home. On Wisconsin!

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                              • #16
                                Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

                                If the employees don't respect it, why would anyone think the customers would?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

                                  Well so far I see that a lot of people still want to blame Disney for the overall park conditions. While I believe that Disney is somewhat culpable I still feel like it's the attitude of people today that make the difference. I was at the Magic Kingdom in December and I saw the aftermath of parade where nearly everyone who had been sitting on the ground got up and simply left behind every piece of trash imaginable. It looked horrendous. One of Disney's mandates is to have trash bins everywhere so that no one had an excuse to litter. Why is it so hard to carry some trash to the nearest bin for disposal? In addition, I rode the Little Mermaid at the new Fantasyland. While in line I saw multiple children climbing the rockwork in the queue. Now how long do you think that rockwork is going to stay in it's pristine condition while parents let their children treat it like a playground? Which brings me to my point, it is a cause and effect relationship. How does Disney combat the overall mistreatment of the parks due to the non-caring attitudes that a majority of people seem to have nowadays?

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

                                    this reminded me of what i saw on new years eve in CarsLand in Anaheim.

                                    Here i was waiting for a friend to come out of the bathrooms next to DOC Huds building and a 13 or 14 year old girl climbs over the rails of the planters and starts stomping on the beautiful plants making sure that she dug deep in the sand and dirt with her shoe. Meanwhile Dad sitting there turns to her and says maybe you should not do that. meanwhile younger brother is pulling the blooms from the other plants dad then looks and says your mother is not going to like that.

                                    Well sorry but i could not take it so i told the girl to get her *** out of the planters as well as the boy and asked the Dad who was the child him or the two uncontrolled kids in the planters. His response, look the other way and a bite on his oversized turkey leg and sip form his drink.

                                    what bothered me even more beside this behavior was that a couple CM's past next to the planters and did not have some kind of pride to make sure their park was maintained and instead just walked by without saying a word.

                                    so

                                    a) do some CM's not care

                                    b) are CM told not to do anything so that they do not have a confrontation
                                    seems to me that if it is the second option, they could at least call security or very calmly go to the children and tell them to please get out of the planters.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

                                      Originally posted by Semiquaver View Post
                                      I think all the problems still mostly stem from the lack of upkeep by Disney. People treat things differently when they're new and shiny. Fading paint, rusty fixtures, cracked pavement, and the like all add up subconsciously. If things are a little run down anyways, people don't worry so much about their own impact.
                                      Exactly right. There's a great quote from Retrocool's thread on the DLR forum, "Policy can breed bad behavior," in which veteran Imagineer Eddie Sotto comments on guests' littering:

                                      Originally posted by Eddie Sotto
                                      ...The guest experience is also determined by how WE [Disney] treat the other guests we're sharing [the Park] with. So True. Policies can spark the worst in people too and it does not take much. Littering also results from a messy environment to begin with. An old Disney saying is "trash breeds trash". If you see a clean area you tend to respect it, if it's not, you join the littering in progress.

                                      ... I recall a story that was told to me by one of the old guard supervisors operating Disneyland. In the early days of selling unlimited use passports, he found a teen in the bathroom spinning and unravelling the toilet paper and throwing it all over the wet floor. The place was a mess. He asked the youth why he was doing it and the answer was that "he was getting his money's worth." Hmmm. The CM went on to tell me that he did not like the idea of losing the ticket books because it gave the guest the subconscious idea that they owned the place. The attractions lose the sense of value of being a "transaction". No ticket takers to control the entry to the rides, meant they were just there for the taking. "Unlimited use" meant you could "learn them" and then vandalize or jump out of them. Combine that use policy with the society we live in today which has a "me first" mentality and you are where you are.
                                      It's true that the social ethic of today's society sucks. But it's also true that the Disney Corporation of the past 15 years has invested less in the upkeep of WDW and in the training of its Cast Members than at any time in the company's history. And the result is obvious.
                                      Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 01-14-2013, 12:06 PM.
                                      "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                      it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                      together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                      designed to appeal to everyone."

                                      - Walt Disney

                                      "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                      - Michael Eisner

                                      "It's very symbiotic."
                                      - Bob Chapek

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                                      • #20
                                        Re: WDW Conditions - Cause and Effect

                                        Originally posted by DisneySam View Post
                                        Well so far I see that a lot of people still want to blame Disney for the overall park conditions. While I believe that Disney is somewhat culpable I still feel like it's the attitude of people today that make the difference. I was at the Magic Kingdom in December and I saw the aftermath of parade where nearly everyone who had been sitting on the ground got up and simply left behind every piece of trash imaginable. It looked horrendous. One of Disney's mandates is to have trash bins everywhere so that no one had an excuse to litter. Why is it so hard to carry some trash to the nearest bin for disposal? In addition, I rode the Little Mermaid at the new Fantasyland. While in line I saw multiple children climbing the rockwork in the queue. Now how long do you think that rockwork is going to stay in it's pristine condition while parents let their children treat it like a playground? Which brings me to my point, it is a cause and effect relationship. How does Disney combat the overall mistreatment of the parks due to the non-caring attitudes that a majority of people seem to have nowadays?
                                        And no kids EVER climbed on rocks back in the 1970s. Your post reminded me of that old song in "Bye Bye Birdie," "Kids! I don't know what's wrong with these kids today!" (BTW, Mr. W.'s post above mentioned a similar thread currently at the top of the Disneyland section.)

                                        As Mr. W. wrote, if people are a bit messier (and I'm not sure they are—remember the commercial with the Indian crying?), then Disney should double the number of sweepers.

                                        In the 70s I seemed to always encounter a couple of sweepers on Main Street every time I was there. Their hard work set a tone of cleanliness that was emulated by the guests.

                                        Why is there zero litter at an air show in Wisconsin with 800,000 visitors while Colorado Blvd. in Pasadena is covered in literally TONS of trash after the Rose Parade? It's Disney's responsibility to find out and fight for zero litter in its parks.
                                        Last edited by jcruise86; 01-14-2013, 07:30 PM. Reason: typo

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