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  • #21
    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

    Originally posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
    An underground subway system is hard to do in Florida with the water table being a few feet below the surface in most places.
    Hasn't the King of the Swamp thought you anything about building in swampland?

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    • #22
      Re: WDW Monorail Observation

      Originally posted by BandM View Post
      Couldn't that just be achieved with lots of decals?
      No, a decal is what they use now. I was thinking more along the lines of this.

      Click image for larger version

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      A quick photoshop, but wouldn't it be more fun to ride a "monorail" to your next stop? Picture covered wagon themes for frontier land, whimsical ones for MK, futuristic ones for EPCOT, safari ones for AK.

      They will still be buses, but it would be a bit more fun trying to ride them all, of try to figure out "which" was coming to pick YOU up!

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      • #23
        Re: WDW Monorail Observation

        I'd rather ride monorails and steam trains than buses made to look like monorails and steam trains.

        40 years ago Disney could have just used buses. It would have worked just as well. It would have been cheaper up front. They could have only used buses then for all the same excuses you hear for why they pretty much only use buses now. They didn't because they knew that boats and monorails were more fun. The Disney of 40 plus years ago also had much less money to spend on such extravagances than they do now, but they spent it anyway. Instead of making excuses that it wasn't cost effective or that it could be years before the energy savings balanced out the upfront costs they went for the better solution not only because they were working on a long term model instead of the quarterly profit model, but also because they knew that the guests would appreciate the effort.

        The company now is more profitable than ever. They could afford to expand the monorail to the other 4 parks and Downtown Disney and Iger wouldn't even have to mortgage one of his homes. They could even offset the cost of the entire project with a single hit film. They won't and they have lots of fancy corporate buzz words to explain why it's a bad idea, but the fact remains that the guests still do appreciate the effort. The reason attendance and guest satisfaction is dropping is not because their marketing sticks (though that is true) it's because they aren't putting in the effort anymore.

        People remember when Walt Disney Productions did a lot more when they had a lot less. They remember when they put the thought and money into making a highly detailed experience. They remember when the company was innovating both creatively and technically. Now they just see rides that are 3rd grade book reports of movies they already own and a company that only seems interested in getting the guest to hand over their wallets the instant they check into the hotel.

        The company's primary method of advertising in those old days was word of mouth, which is also part of what you pay for when you put in the extra money to build something great that people want to tell their friends back home about. They didn't need to hire advertisers to make up a new slogan to celebrate and print up new shirts every year. People didn't need to be suckered into going to Walt Disney World. They went because it was there, and it was great, and there was probably something new put in since the last time they were there.

        All these cost effective things, the profit boosting shortcuts, the 3rd party vendors, the aggressive marketing, the buses, were all things Disney could have done from the beginning, but if they did, I doubt they would have fans that care enough about it to make boards like this.
        It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.
        sigpic

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        • #24
          Re: WDW Monorail Observation

          Marketing WDW I can completely understand, as frustratingly unimaginative as Disney marketing can be. (You'd think the undisputed leader in storytelling could put together a decent 30sec spot.)


          What I've never understood is why that marketing now has to have a firm and noticeable presence inside the parks. "Let the Memories Begin" isn't a terrible idea, but why did the MK Mickey floral need to be surrounded by it? "Celebrate Today" wasn't a terrible idea either, but why did Disneyland's Town Square need that horrific balloon tree? Why did "Year of a Million Dreams" need signs every few feet, monorail wraps, characters in blue/white only, etc? Why? Isn't the point of marketing your resort to bring people there? Once they're there, why keep marketing the resorts to them especially when said excessive marketing detracts from the look of the resorts?


          That said, advertising movies anywhere on property, including a monorail wrap, is self-explanatory. Most attractions are movie-based for the same reason. Disney doesn't have to pay a cent for the exposure, and still reaps all the benefits at the box office.

          "Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." -- James 3:13

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          • #25
            Leonard
            "Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional. I REFUSE!"

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            • #26
              Re: WDW Monorail Observation

              Originally posted by disney_leonard View Post
              There is a big difference between building in a metropolitan area and in what amounts to reclaimed swamp. As I understand it, the current building standards require much more in the way of foundation work (AKA: tons more concrete) as well as access roads along the entire length (except over water, etc.) to evacuate the cars in an emergency (stuck, fire, etc.). But if they really wanted to do it they would. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy with anyone. The Magical Express is hated by non-Disney ventures (car rental, shuttle bus, retail stores, etc.). Disney designed this "benefit" to remove the opportunity for guests to leave the property and spend money anywhere else.
              All Monorail beams over land at WDW just has to have "stable" land for emergency vehicles so they don't get stuck, even in poor weather. Paved roads are not required. Over water Disney could add catwalks between the beams like on the Las Vegas Monorail for double beam sections which are almost invisible. Catwalks on single beam sections are a bit ugly, at least for this first installation in Vegas.

              Here is a picture with catwalks for both double beam sections and single beam at a split for a station. Notice no ugly railings on the double section.
              Click image for larger version

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              I think Magaical Express is great for guests in reducing "Vacation Hassle", and truly Marketing genius. I think it's a major key to maintaining market share against Universal with their new attractions. Darn them for spending big bucks for great attractions!
              Last edited by Timon; 04-19-2013, 11:45 AM.

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              • #27
                Re: WDW Monorail Observation

                It was a senior cast member who told me about the new requirements for construction and emergency access. She made it clear that it was her understanding that they could not build the monorail system as it is today. The existing system was built under the codes at the time. Also, I just came back from the Lunch with an Imagineer program. A similar question was asked about connecting the other resorts and parks by extending the monorail. His answer was that they could not add more lines to the TTC so they would have to build another hub someplace. That would mean transferring from one line to another. Add the high cost and it just wouldn't be worth it. But if someone like Bob Iger wanted it, they would find a way.
                Leonard
                "Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional. I REFUSE!"

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                • #28
                  Re: WDW Monorail Observation

                  Originally posted by maddogjoe View Post
                  No, a decal is what they use now. I was thinking more along the lines of this.

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]28915[/ATTACH]

                  A quick photoshop, but wouldn't it be more fun to ride a "monorail" to your next stop? Picture covered wagon themes for frontier land, whimsical ones for MK, futuristic ones for EPCOT, safari ones for AK.

                  They will still be buses, but it would be a bit more fun trying to ride them all, of try to figure out "which" was coming to pick YOU up!
                  :smart:

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Re: WDW Monorail Observation

                    Originally posted by Dapper Dan View Post
                    I'd rather ride monorails and steam trains than buses made to look like monorails and steam trains.
                    Fair enough, fake 'trolleys' that are really just buses annoy me.

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                    • #30
                      Re: WDW Monorail Observation

                      Originally posted by disney_leonard View Post
                      . But if someone like Bob Iger wanted it, they would find a way.
                      This is the root of the problem and not just Iger but Eisner, too. If they believed in it, it would happen.

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                      • #31
                        Re: WDW Monorail Observation

                        Originally posted by disney_leonard View Post
                        It was a senior cast member who told me about the new requirements for construction and emergency access. She made it clear that it was her understanding that they could not build the monorail system as it is today. The existing system was built under the codes at the time. Also, I just came back from the Lunch with an Imagineer program. A similar question was asked about connecting the other resorts and parks by extending the monorail. His answer was that they could not add more lines to the TTC so they would have to build another hub someplace. That would mean transferring from one line to another. Add the high cost and it just wouldn't be worth it. But if someone like Bob Iger wanted it, they would find a way.
                        Think about this. Disney CHANGED THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES because they didn't want anything to enter the public domain. Changing the codes -- in a municipality they pretty much own -- is trivial. Changing the laws of the State of Florida should be only a little more involved. And -- as we've seen -- the Disney company is quite competent in changing the Laws of the United States to suit them.

                        I think, at the end of the day, the return on investment, in dollars doesn't meet their guidelines. And the idea of any other metric is alien. Good thing Pixar bought them, maybe we'll see some material changes.

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                        • #32
                          Re: WDW Monorail Observation

                          Disney is no longer interested in changing codes. They cave now to whatever they need to.

                          Case in point: All the pools at WDW are getting fenced in. Reedy Creek, Disney's own governing body, is insisting upon it. Disney is not fighting back. I think that says loads of how different the culture is today vs. when the Sonny Bono Act went into play.

                          As far as evacuating a monorail, well, this has nothing to do with building codes and everything to do with meeting ADA compliance for evacuating. The building codes were forced to comply with ADA, not the other way around.

                          And none of this really matters until someone can produce a solid presentation to Bob & Co. about how much money the monorail expansion would save the company vs. just keeping the bus system and expanding that. When you can do that, this topic will be worth talking about. Until someone comes up with the real numbers, all this is a moot point.
                          -Bill

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