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Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

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  • #21
    Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

    Originally posted by DisneySam View Post
    it's whether or not people actually take in to account the complexities of business operations today versus when Walt Disney ran the company when they make negative comments.
    To answer: Yes. I take all such complexities into account whenever I make negative comments.

    Comment


    • #22
      Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

      Originally posted by RandySavage View Post
      The central question ("Do we let nostalgia cloud...", aka "Is WDW actually better/worse today than in, say, the early 1990s?")
      ***
      of course I can't speak for the OP but that's not what the question was at all. Regardless of whether WDW is better or worse now than before is irrelevant. The question is about whether negativity towards certain things is clouded by nostalgia, and if such negativity is truly deserved or a result of nostalgic impulses and people's bitterness towards losing the source of many memories.

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      • #23
        Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

        Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
        You wake up each new day, and open Disneyland.

        If you stick to sweeping floors and replacing bulbs and other maintenance issues, the way they were performed yesterday and the day before, then you don't need to account for complexities of business operations today.
        These things don't just happen for free. You need labor to sweep floors and replace bulbs. You have to buy the bulbs, and the screws and the paint and all the other items for maintenance. I'm sure you think that these are trivial things but they can really add up especially when dealing with a property the size of WDW.

        My point is that Walt never had to deal with issues on this level. So it is an unfair comparison when trying to bring up why things just can't happen the way they would when he was around.

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        • #24
          Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

          Originally posted by RandySavage View Post
          To answer: Yes. I take all such complexities into account whenever I make negative comments.
          As do I. We obviously can still have different views on what constitutes a challenge for Disney to operate the way they do.

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          • #25
            Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

            Originally posted by Witches of Morva View Post
            ORDDU: My sisters and I look at all this a bit differently. Instead of seeing that nostalgia 'clouds our vision' of what we have a right to expect from the Disney Company, we see nostalgia as something to never forget because--once fans DO forget how much better things used to be--it's all too easy to give current management a free pass to lower standards and that is something that should never be acceptable.

            ORWEN: Just because Uncle Walt is dead and gone is no excuse for those who are still alive and know what quality could and SHOULD be like, to just roll over and pretend they don't see the glaring faults that need to be corrected.

            ORDDU: Of course it's a tricky tightrope to walk because when you try to uphold the same standards that Walt created, you risk being called a 'whiner' or a 'chronic complainer'--particularly by the younger crowds who weren't around to see what the glory days were really like at Disney.
            Bingo x 3!
            "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
            it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
            together with every variety of recreation and fun,
            designed to appeal to everyone."

            - Walt Disney

            "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
            - Michael Eisner

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            • #26
              Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

              Now also bear in mind that we are talking about a premium product here.. This isn't a B rate theme park. This is the highest level park and vacation experience. I do not care if they have to hire more people now to sweep floors and buy bulbs then they did years ago, or that labor costs have gone up. I am paying a PREMIUM price for their product... Prices for the parks have consistently risen... I expect a level of maintenance equal to what I experienced when I paid $21.95 for park admission to now when I am paying $80.00. Disney set the standards for park maintenance...I expect no less than the standard they marketed to us to make us loyal customers. I am not blinded by the parks of the past, but do expect for the parks to continue to be operated in the same quality they were known for, which allows them to charge the PREMIUM prices that we pay. When we begin to accept a decline in show while swallowing another price increase without being justly critical of what is going on, we all lose. let's not forget the legendary salaries the Disney Company executives make...and the golden parachutes they floated out on...while scrimping on the budgets on park attractions and maintenance during the Pressler/Eisner era... I applaud the new Fantasyland and some of the new interactive things they are doing...Those things help justify the ever rising costs of a Disney vacation.

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              • #27
                Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

                Example: When I was a third grader, I first visited Disneyland. Everyone rode everything together. I felt so grown up.
                Then all through much of my adult life when I visited Disneyland it made me feel like a kid again.
                I believe this was the key to huge success of this park.
                The last time I visited the park, even after three days, neither me nor my wife was feeling youthful.
                And I'm sure not many kids who were too short to ride thrill rides felt very grown up.
                The ability to make adults feel young again? Priceless!
                Without it, Disneyland is just another fancy amusement park.
                It can only go downhill unless someone in charge understands what has been lost.
                Any old timers agree?

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                • #28
                  Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

                  Well put. This old timer agrees.
                  http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...oto-heavy.html
                  http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...ip-report.html
                  http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...oto-heavy.html
                  http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...oto-heavy.html
                  http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...something.html

                  No matter where you go, there you are.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

                    Originally posted by fnord View Post
                    Example: When I was a third grader, I first visited Disneyland. Everyone rode everything together. I felt so grown up.
                    Then all through much of my adult life when I visited Disneyland it made me feel like a kid again.
                    I believe this was the key to huge success of this park.
                    The last time I visited the park, even after three days, neither me nor my wife was feeling youthful.
                    And I'm sure not many kids who were too short to ride thrill rides felt very grown up.
                    The ability to make adults feel young again? Priceless!
                    Without it, Disneyland is just another fancy amusement park.
                    It can only go downhill unless someone in charge understands what has been lost.
                    Any old timers agree?
                    Here here I agree :-)
                    while the parks need some thrills I think that the loss of attractions everyone can ride together, ESP in EPCOT is a loss - similarly lack of maintenance upkeep just makes things look seedy IMO.

                    It will be interesting to see if the little people of today feel the same about Disney when they are bigger as we do now or if the short term cuts will end up in long term losses

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                    • #30
                      Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

                      Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                      Bingo x 3!
                      Bingo x 4!!!

                      Just because I hold Walt's standards (aka "nostalgia") highly does not mean I'm a "doom and gloomer" or a "whiner," I just want to see the Disney Company try to perform at their peak, where both guests (new- and old-timers alike) as well as management are happy with the way the parks are run.

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                      • #31
                        Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

                        Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                        Bingo x 3!
                        OOOhhh can you hear the cackling of three witches?

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

                          I love everything Disney, new and old. There's no need for out with the old and in with the new....the best part of Disney is that you have both, history and creativity in one place, that is why everyone loves it! Disney just needs to keep growing and growing in my opinion...being both old and new at the same time.
                          Oh... I just love happy endings.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

                            Originally posted by BriarRose13 View Post
                            I love everything Disney, new and old. There's no need for out with the old and in with the new....the best part of Disney is that you have both, history and creativity in one place, that is why everyone loves it! Disney just needs to keep growing and growing in my opinion...being both old and new at the same time.
                            The key is to realize which parts of the old and the new are best and should be kept as Disney's core values.

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                            • #34
                              Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

                              While I do not know to much about nostalgia about WDW, it seems to run rampant at Disneyland. Yet nostalgia is a wonderful thing in some cases, and can justify preserving some of the best parts of the parks.

                              So to much nostalgia, yes. As long as it does not cloud visionary views though nostalgia is perfectly justified.
                              sigpic

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                              • #35
                                Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

                                Sadly, that is true, but DIsney needs to invest into new attractions that are different to what they have done before. In the last 10 years, Universal has been doing more attractions that are new, and with new film series. I know that USO took at Jas and Kingfrontation, Back to the Future, but the additions that replace them are great, even the new construction is looking good
                                The new Star Wars plot summery:

                                Episode 7: Luke discovers that Darth Vader is not his father, and goes on a search for his real father

                                Episode 8: Darth Vader is resurrected and goes on Jerry Springer, claiming he is Luke and Leia's father

                                Episode 9: Princes Leia is not Luke's sister, making him furious (we all know why...).

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

                                  Yes Nostalgia does cloud our vision of Disney a bit, but as one person said, "Those who don't learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat it."

                                  I believe the same should go for the successes...and Disney should have a bright future ahead of it, hopefully they'll dig themselves out of this rut, and we won't be talking like ths for another 40 years..
                                  The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.
                                  -George S. Patton

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Re: Do We Let Nostalgia Cloud Our Vision of Present Day Disney?

                                    My biggest complaint is that the price of admission is always going up, while the budgets for maintenance seem to be going down, but the overall quality of the "show" or the experience of the rides I think relates to that as well...

                                    The "light bulb" issue comes from Walt's idea that every day is someone's first visit to the park, so everything should always look brand new. But over the years the people who now run things have come to realize they make a lot of money on "repeat business". So the build Vacation Clubs, which the dues and points for are constantly going up in price, they charge $80 to get in the door, so you can buy $30 t-shirts, and eat $9 hamburgers, and drink $3 Coca-Cola... and have decided "do we really need to spend money checking the light bulbs every night?"

                                    They make a lot of profit on "nostalgia". It's those nostalgic feelings that keep bringing people back to the place. I don't have any sympathy for one of the largest corporations in the world's inability to earn a profit from all their various business ventures. If that's the case then perhaps they are not running their business properly.

                                    Hollywood was built by people who were "showmen" Walt Disney, Jack Warner, Louie B. Mayer... they were people who knew how to put on a show and how entertain the public. They all nearly bankrupted themselves several times, or they just had the instincts, and the storytelling skills, and the courage of their own convictions, to bet everything on a really good "show" they figured out the "business" end of "show business" as they went along

                                    This same "showmen" mentality was applied to the building of Disneyland, the animators who had spent nearly 20 years making films were recruited to be imagineers. The classic rides that were original to the park like, Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion, Pirates... were created by people who had a lot of experience putting on shows. But after 40's year as lead animator, Glen Keane recently retired for Walt Disney Animation, because they current Disney Corporation doesn't see the need to do the thing that the company was founded on anymore

                                    So I'm nostalgic for a time when I felt like a "guest", instead of "a source of revenue", and when it was being run by people who knew how to put on a "show", instead of by people who really don't seem to know how to do anything except "math"

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