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Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

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  • #21
    Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

    Originally posted by maddogjoe View Post
    I agree 100%, but tell that to the share holders! Todays investor is all about money now. They don't care what "your going to do for them tomorrow" they only care about today. On top of that, they ARE making money even with the "poor" state the parks are in today. Why should "they" give up profits so that "tomorrow" looks better?
    Investment is about money. If you're planning for retirement, or saving money for your kids to go to college, you want to put money into a company that will net you that 7% ROI or whatever. If you don't get it, and complain to your stock broker, he or she's going to look at what's failing, and where, and move that money. Not many investors are investing for the idea of owning a part of a company they love, and the way to get new investors is to show that you are beating that average return on investment. So, for the small investor, it doesn't pay to count on how important the show quality is. It's either Disney, or Paramount, or Chrysler, or Apple. Who's giving the most money back right now?

    If you're a larger investor, let's say you own 2-3% of the company stock or something, that's when you're concerned with long term goals, company image, etc. It's a lot of effort to move that many millions of dollars. Unfortunately, we're looking at people less like Walt Disney and more like Mr. Potter from It's a Wonderful Life here. They also want big returns, and couldn't give a lick about what the average vacation experience is, as long as people keep coming back. They will crunch numbers and run reports to find out the MINIMUM output necessary to provide MAXIMUM profits. I don't know if anyone plays role-playing games like Dungeons and Dragons, but there's a concept of a MIN/MAXer, a player who is so concerned with maximizing his or her character's skills and minimizing their deficits, who wants to win at all costs, that they forget they are supposed to be losing themselves in the immersion and having FUN. This is similar to the current Disney Management environment, and much of corporate America's top brass.

    Those people are the ones instating the CEOs, the park Presidents, the CFO's, etc. They are the ones who are really shaping the park, and failing. It's kind of always going to be that way from here on out I think. Remember, for a long time it was Walt Disney himself running everything, then his hand-picked friends and confidants after he passed away. Then, those men aged and retired, and we saw Eisner go more and more corporate and less and less magical. Now, those men are all gone.

    I think there are two ways this *might* change, but probably won't. Lassiter becomes head of TDC and takes a keen interest in the parks, or Universal makes significant headway into WDW's profits. Barring that, we've got to wait for Mickey to put on the hat and use magic to save our parks.

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    • #22
      Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

      Lasseter (No I) loves the California parks. It will take more than him to care for Florida's parks. You need someone like me who knows every nut and bolt and nook and cranny to run Florida's massive property. As far as Universal, that is your best bet right now. Competition is good.
      -Bill

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      • #23
        Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

        Bill, you seem very knowledgeable about the inner workings of WDW. Are you a secret high-up at the property?

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        • #24
          Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

          Based on your opinion, it doesn't sound like the Magic kingdom park is ready for it's close up.

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          • #25
            Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

            The majority of Disney stock is owned by mutual funds. These companies don't care what Disney does as long as the value of the shares go up. They will vote for whoever they think will make that happen. That means you can't listen to them. You can't run an entertainment business to please share holders, you have to run it to please customers because unlike running the Coca-Cola company where the product stays more or less the same and you can just keep selling it forever, entertainment has to constantly sell new products to the public or keep giving them reasons to return to the theme parks. People are only going to buy the Avengers blu-ray once. Eventually they're going to have to make another movie.

            Theme parks are also not like movies. Once a film is in the can, the majority of the investment is over. You no longer have to pay the crew or maintain the sets. At a park however, maintenance is a big chunk of your investment and it is the difference between looking like a park that is doing well and looking like a park that has seen better days. Even if your park is financially doing better than ever, if it looks like it's struggling to get by, your guests will think it is. They don't look at your profit sheets, but they do look at your broken animatronics. This can be the difference between your attractions looking like summer blockbusters or Sy-Fy original movies.

            You can't run entertainment businesses with the idea of making a lot of money. You have to run them with the idea of making great entertainment. If you do that well, the money will come.
            It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.
            sigpic

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            • #26
              Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

              OK, if the money from Disney is down 20% are they going to take that money out of the shareholders cut, or out of someplace else like oh I don't know ... maintenance?

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              • #27
                Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

                Originally posted by RexSaucy View Post
                Bill, you seem very knowledgeable about the inner workings of WDW. Are you a secret high-up at the property?
                If I was a secret high-up, do you really think I'd be posting here? Sure, I know execs that read Mice Chat, but I don't know any that would post without being in dire risk of loosing their jobs.

                However, I am very knowledgable about the inner workings of WDW. And this topic in particular is of much importance to me, as I care a great deal about WDW's lack of upkeep. You could probably ask anyone who knows me in person, and they would be able to tell you that no one is as versed with the problems that WDW has as I am.

                In fact, I'd be willing to say that the only ones who know more would be a select few who work in Imagineering in WDW in an underfunded and understaffed area known as show quality. The problem is that no one really listens to them, because even if a problem is documented, it doesn't get fixed until people really put a fuss up about it... and even then the operators of the parks... management... want the attractions as open as much as possible because there simply isn't enough capacity in the Florida parks to compensate for closed attractions. (To contrast, Disneyland Park in California has ample capacity versus the Magic Kingdom Park in Florida, with almost twice as many experiences as the Florida park. If a couple attractions are closed in Disneyland, it's not a big deal. If a couple attractions are closed in the Magic Kingdom, the park can't handle the crowds.) The management at WDW has neglected to expand the Magic Kingdom into a workable model with ample attractions that can allow for major closures of other attractions during the year.

                In fact, the Magic Kingdom Park actually has LESS attractions than it did 20 years ago. Go figure that one out. (No, I'm not counting meet and greets as attractions, nor atmosphere entertainment.)

                If you could all see the big picture of WDW, you'd throw up at how badly the place is being managed, and how out of touch everyone is with the bigger picture.

                And by the way, NextGen isn't the worst thing in the world... the technology holds a lot of promise, but only if it is used the way it needs to be. And I worry about how they will actually use that technology, because quite frankly, I've seen many problems that no expert would make in rolling out such a huge technology. That shows me it's being rolled out by someone who isn't micromanaging the project and is letting younger folks make a lot of mistakes in the project.

                How does all this tie back into maintenance? Well, NextGen is going to be used to gather a heck of a lot of data... in fact, enough data to use to decide maintenance budgets for the parks. And that is what makes me REALLY worried.
                -Bill

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                • #28
                  Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

                  Originally posted by maddogjoe View Post
                  OK, if the money from Disney is down 20% are they going to take that money out of the shareholders cut, or out of someplace else like oh I don't know ... maintenance?
                  Budgets don't really work this way.
                  -Bill

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

                    Originally posted by Bill View Post
                    If I was a secret high-up, do you really think I'd be posting here? Sure, I know execs that read Mice Chat, but I don't know any that would post without being in dire risk of loosing their jobs.

                    However, I am very knowledgable about the inner workings of WDW. And this topic in particular is of much importance to me, as I care a great deal about WDW's lack of upkeep. You could probably ask anyone who knows me in person, and they would be able to tell you that no one is as versed with the problems that WDW has as I am.

                    In fact, I'd be willing to say that the only ones who know more would be a select few who work in Imagineering in WDW in an underfunded and understaffed area known as show quality. The problem is that no one really listens to them, because even if a problem is documented, it doesn't get fixed until people really put a fuss up about it... and even then the operators of the parks... management... want the attractions as open as much as possible because there simply isn't enough capacity in the Florida parks to compensate for closed attractions. (To contrast, Disneyland Park in California has ample capacity versus the Magic Kingdom Park in Florida, with almost twice as many experiences as the Florida park. If a couple attractions are closed in Disneyland, it's not a big deal. If a couple attractions are closed in the Magic Kingdom, the park can't handle the crowds.) The management at WDW has neglected to expand the Magic Kingdom into a workable model with ample attractions that can allow for major closures of other attractions during the year.

                    In fact, the Magic Kingdom Park actually has LESS attractions than it did 20 years ago. Go figure that one out. (No, I'm not counting meet and greets as attractions, nor atmosphere entertainment.)

                    If you could all see the big picture of WDW, you'd throw up at how badly the place is being managed, and how out of touch everyone is with the bigger picture.

                    And by the way, NextGen isn't the worst thing in the world... the technology holds a lot of promise, but only if it is used the way it needs to be. And I worry about how they will actually use that technology, because quite frankly, I've seen many problems that no expert would make in rolling out such a huge technology. That shows me it's being rolled out by someone who isn't micromanaging the project and is letting younger folks make a lot of mistakes in the project.

                    How does all this tie back into maintenance? Well, NextGen is going to be used to gather a heck of a lot of data... in fact, enough data to use to decide maintenance budgets for the parks. And that is what makes me REALLY worried.
                    All I can say to this is a very large, and very sad, "Bingo."

                    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                    designed to appeal to everyone."

                    - Walt Disney

                    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                    - Michael Eisner

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

                      The philosophy has shifted from exceeding expectations to keeping complaints to a manageable level.
                      It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

                        Originally posted by Bill View Post
                        How does all this tie back into maintenance? Well, NextGen is going to be used to gather a heck of a lot of data... in fact, enough data to use to decide maintenance budgets for the parks. And that is what makes me REALLY worried.
                        Ugh, I can already hear it..."Well, the CoP only sees 1500 guests per day so we'll give it $1500 per year for paint, animation and sound maintenance."
                        Please consider the environment before printing useless emails

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                        • #32
                          Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

                          Originally posted by SpectroMan View Post
                          Ugh, I can already hear it..."Well, the CoP only sees 1500 guests per day so we'll give it $1500 per year for paint, animation and sound maintenance."
                          Actually, that is what they do right now.

                          NextGen could potentially decide if you actually wanted to ride the carousel of progress, or if you're just there because you couldn't get FP+ Reservations for anything else, or if you're just there because it's got AC... THAT is what worries me.
                          -Bill

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

                            Originally posted by Bill View Post
                            Actually, that is what they do right now.

                            NextGen could potentially decide if you actually wanted to ride the carousel of progress, or if you're just there because you couldn't get FP+ Reservations for anything else, or if you're just there because it's got AC... THAT is what worries me.
                            That I think is one of the scariest possibilities of this tech, that they can REALLY accurately within a 95% certainty predict behaviorial analysis. The fact that they are planning on utilizing this to strip and scrimp and save on budgets is even worse.

                            Thank you for explaining certain things on here, I realize you can't go too far into detail without burning your bridges so to speak, but can you say how much capacity is down at the MK and other parks thanks to bugdet downsizing or in general just removing and not replacing attractions??

                            The fact that we've gotten to this point in time in general saddens me, everything seems like it is being penny pinched and scrooged to the point where they may actually permanently damage one of the great treasures of entertainment this country has to offer. I don't know how much longer we have to continue down this path before this gets corrected, or if are we approaching a breaking point where the average tourist says to heck with Disney World??
                            The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.
                            -George S. Patton

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                            • #34
                              Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

                              So with this in mind, does this mean I need to reserve every attraction with FP+ before leaving for vacation to ensure Disney knows that I really want to ride it, and not just default to it when others are too busy?
                              Perhaps that's why all the old rides have magic band scanners installed.
                              Please consider the environment before printing useless emails

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

                                Seriously these complaints are fairly mild compared to what is accepted on a daily basis at Disneyland Paris. The worst kept Disney Park in the World. With Management to match.
                                Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/malin1804

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                                • #36
                                  Re: Maint. issues and cosmetic changes on MK Classics

                                  Originally posted by ORD84 View Post
                                  Thank you for explaining certain things on here, I realize you can't go too far into detail without burning your bridges so to speak, but can you say how much capacity is down at the MK and other parks thanks to bugdet downsizing or in general just removing and not replacing attractions??
                                  MK capacity... well, the park capacity suffered a huge loss with the installation of FastPass in general. Once you use FastPass everywhere, it is my belief that it will once again go down... I think Disney knows this too, hence the new limit to only 3 or 4 FPs a day in only 1 park.

                                  (The science behind FastPass is pretty simple, but if you're not stuck waiting in line, you're crowing the walkways and shops and restaurants in the park)

                                  Originally posted by ORD84 View Post
                                  The fact that we've gotten to this point in time in general saddens me, everything seems like it is being penny pinched and scrooged to the point where they may actually permanently damage one of the great treasures of entertainment this country has to offer. I don't know how much longer we have to continue down this path before this gets corrected, or if are we approaching a breaking point where the average tourist says to heck with Disney World??
                                  Time will only tell.
                                  -Bill

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