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Avatar Land First Look

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  • Re: Avatar Land First Look

    Originally posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    It does not have to said. It can be clearly seen in the park itself and how it presents the subject matters it handles. It can also be seen in the body of work of its creator. What some writer typed up for Michael Eisner to say is not a the end-all-be-all of how the park engages with an audience.
    So, you think Disney etches quotes into plaques just for the hell of it? The sign in front of Disneyland, that's just some BS that an intern wrote?

    Listen, you can believe that Animal Kingdom isn't supposed to have Avatar land. That's fine. But you're wrong.

    Comment


    • Re: Avatar Land First Look

      Originally posted by Usul831 View Post
      So, you think Disney etches quotes into plaques just for the hell of it? The sign in front of Disneyland, that's just some BS that an intern wrote?

      Listen, you can believe that Animal Kingdom isn't supposed to have Avatar land. That's fine. But you're wrong.
      By the time of the opening of Disney's Animal Kingdom the opening statement had become rather expectantly codified to follow a very certain pattern. It is a quick reflection.

      Comment


      • Re: Avatar Land First Look

        Originally posted by Usul831 View Post
        So, you think Disney etches quotes into plaques just for the hell of it? The sign in front of Disneyland, that's just some BS that an intern wrote?

        Listen, you can believe that Animal Kingdom isn't supposed to have Avatar land. That's fine. But you're wrong.
        An opinion cannot be right or wrong.



        Comment


        • Re: Avatar Land First Look

          Originally posted by Usul831 View Post
          So, you think Disney etches quotes into plaques just for the hell of it? The sign in front of Disneyland, that's just some BS that an intern wrote?

          Listen, you can believe that Animal Kingdom isn't supposed to have Avatar land. That's fine. But you're wrong.
          What?! Now no one wants to reference a park's plaque when it doesn't benefit in their favor. haha

          You're right. Avatar has as much right being there as the proposed Beastly Kingdom everyone wants.

          Comment


          • Re: Avatar Land First Look

            Originally posted by frollofan View Post
            An opinion cannot be right or wrong.
            True, but not all opinions are equal.

            Comment


            • Re: Avatar Land First Look

              Welcome to a kingdom of animals... real, ancient and imagined: a kingdom ruled by lions, dinosaurs and dragons; a kingdom of balance, harmony and survival; a kingdom we enter to share in the wonder, gaze at the beauty, thrill at the drama, and learn
              To be fair, this was clearly written to give the folks at Disney the widest possible berth with regards to the Animals included in the Kingdom. "...real, ancient and imagined?" So, like basically any animal anywhere from any time or any intellectual property is a fit for Animal Kingdom.

              If we're just going by the plaque, Avatar fits pretty well, covering 'imagined' animals, 'dragons' called banshees, and 'balance, harmony and survival' as basically the thesis of the movies themselves.

              Honestly, the 'haterz' argument loses credence when one falls down this far into the rabbit hole.

              It's one thing to not like Disney using Avatar to pepper up Animal Kingdom. It's quite another to go to this level of pulling strings to make one's point about how sucky Avatar is for DAK.

              I mean, don't like it, but it fits into DAK significantly better than "If You Had Wings" fit into purist-past-glory Tomorrowland (unless the theme was "tomorrow, you will take a plane back home.")

              Don't like the intellectual property, but don't detract from the 'top box office grosser...ever' status when questioning Disney's business choices.

              Don't think the IP has "wings" (heh,) and that Disney is taking too long to build the land, but don't leave out that three sequels are being filmed concurrently and that Disney is timing the opening of Avatarland to the films themselves.

              This cynical, cyclical argument frustrates me. It's one thing to complain about Disney sitting on its hands and raking in cash for the past 10+ years without significant investment into their parks. That's fair and accurate.

              It's quite another to complain when Disney ACTUALLY makes significant investments in their parks. I mean, they're going to drop primo coin into this project. Who cares that it's an intellectual property that perhaps isn't your cup of tea? They're ACTUALLY doing what we've collectively complained that they weren't doing (investment) for the past decade-plus.

              There's certainly an addictive component to this fanbash, where one level isn't enough, and we have to just keep on keepin' on hatin', which is dramatically different that a critique perhaps constructive. And it makes any validity to one's argument lose credence in this context.

              Comment


              • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                Originally posted by BlAcKoUt510 View Post
                What?! Now no one wants to reference a park's plaque when it doesn't benefit in their favor. haha

                You're right. Avatar has as much right being there as the proposed Beastly Kingdom everyone wants.
                So the representation of imaginary animals in a Disney park about animals should be limited to just one man's sci-fi movie?

                Comment


                • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                  So the representation of imaginary animals in a Disney park about animals should be limited to just one man's sci-fi movie?
                  Well, there's also a Yeti.

                  ...and this illustrates the point of the addictive nature of hatin' and why, no matter what they build at DAK, no matter what Disney does with the Avatar IP, there's going to be another layer of disgust to peel back and go on hatin' on. Which takes the discourse away from constructive and into some thing cyclical, cynical and ultimately non-productive.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                    And look at how the yeti is presented. The museum teaches us that even if there is not an actual creature, the yeti is still a real and meaningful part of how those who live in the Himalayas engage with their environment.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                      Originally posted by toonaspie View Post
                      So the representation of imaginary animals in a Disney park about animals should be limited to just one man's sci-fi movie?
                      IMO it can be limited to anything that tells a good story and gives guests unforgettable experiences. That could include a Yeti, Dragon, Aliens whatever honestly to me.
                      These are some of my favorite TRs I have posted

                      DL 55th BDAY trip report
                      My company had a special night at the park
                      WdW trip report with WWoHP
                      NYE 2011 trip report
                      Mice Chat 7th anniversary
                      Leap year 24 hour report
                      New DCA trip report
                      NYE 2012
                      HKDL trip report

                      Comment


                      • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                        Originally posted by mikelieman View Post
                        ...Avatarland is the price Disney is paying for not leading the way in entertainment technology development, and they're hoping that Cameron's technology will be adaptable to deliver on a real next-gen experience. Immersive won't even begin to describe it. IN THEORY.

                        In practice, this is a trainwreck in the making. They're never going to be able to execute on what's essentially imagineering the Holodeck.
                        Exactly. Avatarland is Rent-A-Land, a concept leased from the IP owner by the company that used to be the world's foremost innovator of theme park concepts. It's another example of what happens when you put chief financial officers and strategic planners in charge of a world-famous theme park company: Disney has creatively devolved to the point where all it can do is paint-by-number clones of other people's concepts. Avatarland -- copied from a movie that is itself a copy of other movies -- represents a new nadir.
                        "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                        it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                        together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                        designed to appeal to everyone."

                        - Walt Disney

                        "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                        - Michael Eisner

                        Comment


                        • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                          Originally posted by Garthilk View Post
                          I think there are different measures of success. I think Disney can build a successful area themed to Avatar. Do I think that Avatar is a solid IP? No.

                          Avatar IP, maybe worth about 1 billion in revenue.

                          Harry Potter IP, maybe worth about 27 billion.

                          In terms of sticking power, something that generates 27 times the revenue is going to have a much better staying power in terms branding. Disney typically invests in things that have stickiness in terms of IP. That isn't to say that it couldn't be amazing, or fantastic, just that Avatar doesn't lend itself to the typical IP traits that has created successful brands.

                          Example. Star Wars is the kind of IP Disney does well with. Marvel is the kind Disney does well with. I don't see the attributes of Avatar and how it fits. Disney can create amazing spectacular areas and themes and rides. But that doesn't mean there aren't better ways to spend $500 million.
                          If the end result is a "amazing, fantastic" "successful area themed to Avatar," why should the everyday visitor be concerned with how much the IP is worth? The profitability of an IP shouldn't be the only or primary consideration when developing a theme park attraction. If it wasn't taken into consideration at all, there wouldn't be plans for Avatarland and they'd be planning original attractions like Expedition Everest - isn't that what Disney fans want? But movie franchise-based attractions are the name of the game after WWoHP, Animal Kingdom was long overdue for expansion, and it turns out that the theme of the world's all-time highest grossing movie fell in line with AK's tree-hugging ethos. Large areas of theme parks dedicated to single movie franchises is a new phenomenon, so the jury's still out on whether or not people will be interested in them 50 years from now. After the attractiveness of the movie fades, it depends on the quality of the rides. Critter Country and Jurassic Park (Islands of Adventure) are the oldest examples I can think of, and last time I was there, it seemed crowded.
                          Last edited by WDWorldly; 10-13-2013, 06:42 PM.

                          Comment


                          • nd and even 3rd generation of fans.

                            Avatar cannot claim the same. Nowhere are fans clamoring for a 2nd
                            Last edited by Aladdin; 10-13-2013, 05:09 PM.
                            Critter Country's a mess ev'r since the Country Bears were kicked out. Ya can't cover pooh with honey and 'spect people ta like it.
                            An Adventurers It's Time to Put the Spotlight Back on Bring Back the REAL Disney Gallery
                            Life for Me! ~ ~ ~ Melvin, Buff, and Max!!! ~~~~ Dump the Dream Suite!
                            Meese-ka Moose-ka Mice-Chatter!

                            Comment


                            • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                              ^ I like to take the approach with Avatar that they will tell a great story that fits in with DAK. To me it is possible using Pandora. Tell a good story and create a great customer experience and to me Disney got it right. Save Star Wars for DHS IMO
                              These are some of my favorite TRs I have posted

                              DL 55th BDAY trip report
                              My company had a special night at the park
                              WdW trip report with WWoHP
                              NYE 2011 trip report
                              Mice Chat 7th anniversary
                              Leap year 24 hour report
                              New DCA trip report
                              NYE 2012
                              HKDL trip report

                              Comment


                              • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                                Originally posted by AaroniusPolonius View Post
                                To be fair, this was clearly written to give the folks at Disney the widest possible berth with regards to the Animals included in the Kingdom. "...real, ancient and imagined?" So, like basically any animal anywhere from any time or any intellectual property is a fit for Animal Kingdom.

                                If we're just going by the plaque, Avatar fits pretty well, covering 'imagined' animals, 'dragons' called banshees, and 'balance, harmony and survival' as basically the thesis of the movies themselves.

                                Honestly, the 'haterz' argument loses credence when one falls down this far into the rabbit hole.

                                It's one thing to not like Disney using Avatar to pepper up Animal Kingdom. It's quite another to go to this level of pulling strings to make one's point about how sucky Avatar is for DAK.

                                I mean, don't like it, but it fits into DAK significantly better than "If You Had Wings" fit into purist-past-glory Tomorrowland (unless the theme was "tomorrow, you will take a plane back home.")
                                Agreed, but even beyond the dedication speech, if you've both seen Avatar and paid attention to the pre-show at Kilamanjaro Safaris, or the narrative of Kali River Rapids, or Rafiki's Planet Watch, etc., it's obvious that Avatar perfectly corresponds with the theme and spirit of the park. People who think Avatar doesn't fit Animal Kingdom's theme misguidedly think the park is literally just about animals.
                                It's natazhu
                                Last edited by WDWorldly; 10-13-2013, 07:07 PM.

                                Comment


                                • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                                  Originally posted by WDWorldly View Post
                                  Agreed, but even beyond the dedication speech, if you've both seen Avatar and paid attention to the pre-show at Kilamanjaro Safaris, or the narrative of Kali River Rapids, or Rafiki's Planet Watch, etc., it's obvious that Avatar perfectly corresponds with the theme and spirit of the park. People who think Avatar doesn't fit Animal Kingdom's theme misguidedly think the park is literally just about animals.
                                  It's natazhu
                                  I really love what you just wrote.

                                  I personally really like the animals from Star Wars. I like Star Wars movies about a thousand times better than Avatar. For a while I wished that Avatar would be scrapped and a Star Wars animal area be built in DAK. I figured it could be like a zoo on the planet Coruscant (that big city-planet that the Senate was on).

                                  But Star Wars does not fit Animal Kingdom. It took me a while to get to this point, but I agree that Avatar does indeed fit. I think Avatar is a little too preachy...and that sometimes DAK can be a little preachy with the "humans are bad" and the "Earth is so fragile" stuff. But all zoos and museums do this now, too.

                                  Avatar and DAK are a perfect fit in terms of messaging. I just hope the "humans are bad" stuff is toned down.

                                  Comment


                                  • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                                    Originally posted by danlb_2000
                                    What Disney is doing with Avatar is no different then what they did years ago with Star Wars and Indiana Jones.
                                    Star Wars and Indiana Jones are cultural icons, rich with storytelling and filled with famous and beloved characters. Their scope extends to multiple times and places and they are infinitely adaptable to the theme park medium. They bear no relationship to the flash-in-the-pan eye candy of Avatar, a film filled with characters that no one remembers in a "been there, seen that" world.

                                    Another key difference is that in terms of innovation, creativity, and the depth and experience of their talent pool, the Disney of today is not remotely the Disney that opened Star Tours in 1987 and Indiana Jones Adventure in 1995.


                                    Originally posted by danlb_2000
                                    We can debate the merits of Avatar all we want, but based on passed successes it's hard to argue that bringing in outside IP's in inherently a bad things.
                                    Bringing in outside IPs is inherently a bad thing for a company that has the reputation of being the world leader in theme park innovation and creativity, when it becomes increasingly apparent that paint-by-numbers copying of IPs, owned or leased, is all that they're capable of doing.
                                    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 10-14-2013, 04:43 AM.
                                    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                    designed to appeal to everyone."

                                    - Walt Disney

                                    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                    - Michael Eisner

                                    Comment


                                    • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                                      Bringing in outside IPs is inherently a bad thing for a company that has the reputation of being the world leader in theme park innovation and creativity,
                                      That might be more persuasive if everything Disney is famous for wasn't ripped from the Public Domain. Cinderella, Snow White, Beauty and the Beast, Alice in Wonderland...

                                      Comment


                                      • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                                        Originally posted by mikelieman View Post
                                        That might be more persuasive if everything Disney is famous for wasn't ripped from the Public Domain. Cinderella, Snow White, Beauty and the Beast, Alice in Wonderland...
                                        Comparing the original literary works to Disney's finished films shows the fallacy of that argument: the films are thoroughly Disney's own in style and personality -- legitimate film adaptations with memorable characters and music. What was "ripped" was virtually every story beat and character concept in Avatar, a film notable for its hackneyed plot and forgettable cardboard characters.
                                        Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 10-14-2013, 05:03 AM.
                                        "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                                        it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                                        together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                                        designed to appeal to everyone."

                                        - Walt Disney

                                        "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                                        - Michael Eisner

                                        Comment


                                        • Re: Avatar Land First Look

                                          Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                                          Bringing in outside IPs is inherently a bad thing for a company that has the reputation of being the world leader in theme park innovation and creativity, when it becomes increasingly apparent that paint-by-numbers copying of IPs, owned or leased, is all that they're capable of doing.
                                          And let us not forget that Disney themselves admit that they brought in George Lucas because it was thought that Disney was in a rut and unable to produce new and exciting content.

                                          Comment

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