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If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

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  • If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    11
    Flexible DVC ownership
    63.64%
    7
    House
    36.36%
    4
    I go to Florida about 1.5 times a year. About 17 nights. I don't have kids but may at some unseen point. I do have a niece and nephew so probably another solid 7 year of visits before they want different trips. I do visit DLR often and could use DVC points in the GCH but usually plan at too short of notice to use them.

    A house would be an investment too, but at the bloated price may not appreciate greatly over time.

    What would you do if you were me?

  • swampymarsh
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    Look at it this way you could double your money on that bond in seven years if you reinvest and don't spend, but the hotel rates could also double. Unlikely but the inflation at Disney is very high, the risk is greater that Disney prices will climb faster than a risky bond.

    As a DVC member you also get some discounts so consider you save a minimal but possible $100 a visit.

    The main problem with timeshares is you get tired over time. At least with Disney people tire out slower. So if you buy when your first kid is 3 and second kid is born 3 years later, you are good for about 15 years, when the second kid is 12. You could also be a grand parents with two kids how have one kid and one on that way and you or they use it for 20 years. It's real property and can be inherited. It does take a lot of consideration if you will use it for a long time.

    Leave a comment:


  • thedude76
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    Originally posted by swampymarsh View Post
    A lot, because huge numbers of people visit WDW, a lot of them are on annual visits. Like me who goes more than once a year. So they desire something better.

    The DVC resorts are like the Deluxe Resorts and basically can save money over the long term if you go annually and stay in deluxe accommodations.

    It's a little like this, Say you want to go this very week, it's about $1,100 of points for the Wilderness Lodge studios. If you as a non member want that same room it's over $400 a night, $2,800 total for the week. Or you could stay in another regular room in the WL, $325 or $2200.

    It really pays off to have those points, as you lock in a price. The price of points does go up but you pay once, then a small maintenance fee each year.

    A DVC unit also has some things that people want. I you get a Villa it's like a suite in the regular hotel, but has a washer and dryer and kitchen.

    It's nice to have the flexibility to do laundry and leave it in the washer or dryer. Now a kitchen sounds great, but who really wants to cook on vacation? I like to have some family style dinners like BBQs and private birthday cake celebrations. And breakfast while others are getting ready is nice too.
    So I started to look at the numbers.

    Disney Timeshare Costs & Pricing | Disney Vacation Club

    You have the upfront cost of $24,000. It's going to take a while to burn through that initial payout. Plus, you're paying an additional $1000 a year. You can then use those points as shown in the examples. Help me out with how this can possibly work.

    If I put that $24,000 in a 6% bond (or 7-8% if I looked at preferred financial offerings), then I'll have $1440 a year to spend on vacation and only lose the base due to inflation. If I add an additional $1000 to the $1440 I earn in interest each year, that gives me $2440 to spend on vacation. And since dues can change in future years, the DVC approach can get progressively worse compared to renting, where I know the rake rates will be discounted in recessionary years. And outside of recessionary years, I should be able to realize greater interests or yields, assuming the fed slows down tapering.

    What do I gain by giving up that upfront cost today? I'm struggling with this math. It seems like this approach guarantees DVC cash today to realize my approach since they mostly likely can turn around and invest that cash into projects with higher returns.

    Can you get more with your points when rakes rates are heavily discounted in recessionary years? For example, did you see the number of points you needed in 2008 through 2011 lower than in pre-recessionary years for villas? I ask because I rented a villa in 2009 for less than half what it goes for today.

    Leave a comment:


  • swampymarsh
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    Originally posted by thedude76 View Post
    As for the DVC, I think a lot of people buy into these programs because they need incentive to go on vacation. Can anyone show me numbers that make the DVC a better option than just staying on property and paying the normal rates?
    A lot, because huge numbers of people visit WDW, a lot of them are on annual visits. Like me who goes more than once a year. So they desire something better.

    The DVC resorts are like the Deluxe Resorts and basically can save money over the long term if you go annually and stay in deluxe accommodations.

    It's a little like this, Say you want to go this very week, it's about $1,100 of points for the Wilderness Lodge studios. If you as a non member want that same room it's over $400 a night, $2,800 total for the week. Or you could stay in another regular room in the WL, $325 or $2200.

    It really pays off to have those points, as you lock in a price. The price of points does go up but you pay once, then a small maintenance fee each year.

    A DVC unit also has some things that people want. I you get a Villa it's like a suite in the regular hotel, but has a washer and dryer and kitchen.

    It's nice to have the flexibility to do laundry and leave it in the washer or dryer. Now a kitchen sounds great, but who really wants to cook on vacation? I like to have some family style dinners like BBQs and private birthday cake celebrations. And breakfast while others are getting ready is nice too.

    Leave a comment:


  • thedude76
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    Neither seem financially appealing to me. I don't want to tie up that much cash into a property, nor do I want to have to pay that monthly payment if I financed. You're talking about 1.7+ million plus home. That's either a large monthly payment or a lot of dead cash tied to a property with unexpected returns. As for the DVC, I think a lot of people buy into these programs because they need incentive to go on vacation. Can anyone show me numbers that make the DVC a better option than just staying on property and paying the normal rates?

    Leave a comment:


  • 1Disneylandfan
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    Both the DVC or having a house has its advantages and disadvantages. You can go anywhere in the world that DVC is at not just here in the USA, so if you travel internationally that can be a plus. That and you just invested with vacationing with Disney for quite a number of years.

    The house you can live there for as long as you want. One note to renting, its hard doing that when your not on site to manage it. Yes you can hire a company to take care of that for you, but you need to be able to trust them. As well as with renting its hard to find a GOOD renter and to KEEP them.

    To me it truly depends on your personal situation and your the one who can truly weigh the pro's and con's for each.

    Leave a comment:


  • swampymarsh
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    Another development has come up. One of my partners has a young family and I told him about my dillemma.

    We are now considering a corporate DVC membership.


    Our consideration doesn't mean I'll always have point to use, but sometime may. So I could end up with more points than needed even more.

    Leave a comment:


  • swampymarsh
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    I have looked at comprable houses. A problem is that most of the nieghboring area is full of track houses and condos. I'd have to get a house another 10 minutes away, no closer to grocery stores. The houses I'm considering are about 1/2 the price of the ones in Golden Oaks. Also as the house will often be vacant I like the idea of a gated/patrolled community.

    One benefit I've found is I could get an offsite house with a boat dock in the back. However it could be risky, if I have a friend there or family that doesn't know how to operate a boat. I'm pretty 50/50 on if that is a perk or not. May just want to stick to renting boats in the Seven Seas Lagoon onsite.

    Leave a comment:


  • WorldLover71
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    50 years from now the Golden Oak homes will still have value to the owner or his/her heirs. The DVC points will have expired. That said, I think the homes are way over priced and I would prefer the flexibilty of locations the points give you. I also agree with the point you made about the points having terrible value outside DVC. Therefore, I would like to uselessly vote "undecided"

    Leave a comment:


  • CaliforniaAdventurer
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    Originally posted by swampymarsh View Post
    I'm ethical as a business owner and professional. I won't break rules to make a profit. Golden Oaks does not allow you to rent your home.

    I takes my sister's family, or part of them with me often. I buy my niece and nephew APs, they live a short drive from DL, so I often pick them up after school on Friday and spend the weekend in a hotel on Harbor. I take them to WDW, and on DCL. They won't get anything truly new.




    DVC as I see it means I would stay mainly at once resort, as the points have the most value at home, but can try other Disney Resorts with them. That is good there is built in flexibility.

    Downside is I could use the points for DCL, or some resort in Mexico, they do have tradability. But cost wise, points applied outside DVC have terrible value. I am better paying cash for those things. Still need to make reservations.

    Golden Oaks, would afford me more privacy. It's mine, I'm not sharing it. It's much more than a suite or condo, it's a full house. Private pool, garage parking. I can leave wardrobes there and fly without luggage. I can keep a car there when I want to drive to the ocean. Aspirin and wine when I need it in the cupboards. Does have perks that only owners can get. It will be available anytime I want. It should be really quiet.

    Downside is it several times more expensive. No Disney pools. I will only live there and not stay in different resorts. It will be empty most of the time.
    Again, unless you're William Randolph Hearst you're better off renting a brand new car with a fresh car wash and a full tank of gas and no maintenance. Sportscar. Van. You can make it be whatever you want and not have to insure it against theft at your home.

    Leave a comment:


  • mikelieman
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    RIght. Perhaps liability is a better word? This kind of 'premium' image-based real-estate is a liability. It may be an investment, but it's not going to show a profit.

    Leave a comment:


  • StevenW
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    You're looking at it wrong. Is the DVC point what you originally paid for? That is irrelevant. You can still get an equivalent room for one week.

    When I trade points from Hilton (HGVC) to any other timeshare resort, I don't lose points. Instead, I pay a $199 transaction fee and Disney charges an additional $95 resort fee. For the first time, I traded my HGVC points for a stay at DVC.

    This is how it works. A 1 bedroom at HGVC is worth 3400 points for a one week stay at the low season. To stay at another timeshare resort via RCI, it costs 3400 points regardless of whether it is the high season or low season. If I want a 2 bedroom, it costs 5000 points for the low season. The RCI rate is 4800 points for the week for the 2 bedroom. Thus, I pay a lower rate for the week and I pay the same amount for high or low season. Unfortunately, I must still pay the $199 transaction fee and I must pay a resort fee if the property requires it.

    You get a week for a week. The value is how you trade points. It certainly does not make sense to trade points for a lesser quality resort. There are many ways to derive more value.

    Try to not buy DVC at a higher priced resort. You will definitely pay more for Aulani or the Bay Lake Resort for a deeded guarantee to stay there. Perhaps try to buy at an older resort. Maybe DVC doesn't work that way, but HGVC does. When it comes time to redeem your week, try to stay at the higher priced resort on the high season, but usually, the low season is easier to get.

    Since DVC is considered to be the top-of-the-line timeshare company, maybe you should consider a cheaper alternative timeshare resort and just trade for DVC. Be mindful that the yearly maintenance can be exorbitant for some companies. I heard some companies can charge $1600 for one week. This is ridiculous.

    Fortunately, the secondary market for timeshares is available. You should look into it. You might get a timeshare for free if the customer just wants to get rid of theirs.

    The drawback of DVC is their timeshares expire. This means there is no residual value when the timeshare expires. This definitely benefits Disney and not the owner.

    At Golden Oaks you can pay for services such as pool cleaning, lawn mowing, grocery stocking, maid service everything is available for a price. There are also maintenance or membership fees.

    DVC units get used almost all of the time and worn out. Where as my house would get nothing close to the wear and last much longer.
    What's the point of paying for this when you're not there.

    DVC units may get worn, but like any timeshare resort, they get refreshed on a timetable. I haven't had a really bad room except for that one time I traded my points for a suite in Kauai and the room was just awful.

    A DVC unit is much better than a typical hotel suite. You get more space and above moderate level furnishings. Whether your home gets this wear and tear, it depends on whether you will rent your home for others to use, and if you will furnish the house to Ethan Allen quality, which is what you'll expect at DVC.
    Last edited by StevenW; 11-08-2013, 07:04 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • swampymarsh
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    At time shares, you can pay extra for mid stay linen changes or room cleanings. Yes there are maintenance fees for DVC owners.

    At Golden Oaks you can pay for services such as pool cleaning, lawn mowing, grocery stocking, maid service everything is available for a price. There are also maintenance or membership fees.

    DVC units get used almost all of the time and worn out. Where as my house would get nothing close to the wear and last much longer.

    The problem with trading points is like this example which the numbers are made up. DVC point is $100, 3 points a night in the room. Trade them for 4 points at another resort and stay 1 1/3 nights. But at that resort points are $25. Basically you trade $300 for $100. That is how you loose the value.

    Trading the points is an option but not always worth it. It can come down to if I am going to loose my points or not use them, then I trade as a last resort.

    7 years is my minimum span to use these things. I may have kids of my own to take before 7 years is up.

    Leave a comment:


  • StevenW
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    You vacation for 17 nights. It is more than 2 weeks. Timeshares are typically 1 week rentals with maintenance fees. I own a timeshare from a different company (Hilton) and I think it is a great "investment" to rent a large 1 to 2 bedroom suite (larger than a typical studios sized hotel suite). Unfortunately, the maintenance fee has jumped from $650 a year to $850 a year. Fortunately, I have a few options to stretch my timeshare points to make it worth it.

    I never stayed at my home deeded resort (in Las Vegas). I always traded the points for higher priced resorts and I always get more room by downgrading to a smaller room. For example, my home resort in Las Vegas is a 2 bedroom suite, but I always use my floating points for a 1 bedroom suite. I try to avoid the higher priced weekend rates on Fridays thru Sundays. For a longer vacation, I book between Monday to next Thursday, thus have one weekend rate only.

    Check to see if you can trade your points for a non-DVC resort. This is necessary since DVC doesn't have many resorts outside of Orlando. Many timeshare companies use RCI.com to allow their members to trade their points for other timeshare resorts. DVC is actually the top-of-the-line resort. It's properties are immediately gone when listed.

    I do not recommend buying a vacation home. It is money wasted and you really don't see an increase in value in the short term. You have to wait at least 10 years. Do you want to maintain the property on your vacation?

    Leave a comment:


  • swampymarsh
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    I'm ethical as a business owner and professional. I won't break rules to make a profit. Golden Oaks does not allow you to rent your home.

    I takes my sister's family, or part of them with me often. I buy my niece and nephew APs, they live a short drive from DL, so I often pick them up after school on Friday and spend the weekend in a hotel on Harbor. I take them to WDW, and on DCL. They won't get anything truly new.




    DVC as I see it means I would stay mainly at once resort, as the points have the most value at home, but can try other Disney Resorts with them. That is good there is built in flexibility.

    Downside is I could use the points for DCL, or some resort in Mexico, they do have tradability. But cost wise, points applied outside DVC have terrible value. I am better paying cash for those things. Still need to make reservations.

    Golden Oaks, would afford me more privacy. It's mine, I'm not sharing it. It's much more than a suite or condo, it's a full house. Private pool, garage parking. I can leave wardrobes there and fly without luggage. I can keep a car there when I want to drive to the ocean. Aspirin and wine when I need it in the cupboards. Does have perks that only owners can get. It will be available anytime I want. It should be really quiet.

    Downside is it several times more expensive. No Disney pools. I will only live there and not stay in different resorts. It will be empty most of the time.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaliforniaAdventurer
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    Originally posted by brianpinsky View Post
    DVC has more than one location.
    Personally, a vacation home close to nature sounds more appealing, I wouldn't tie up my money in a time share, DVC or otherwise or for an expensive suburban tract home near theme parks, away from where you live... Unless its gated and has full security. Even then blech. Rather stay in a new hotel every time and have a cabin somewhere remote.

    Leave a comment:


  • goofy donald
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    Originally posted by swampymarsh View Post
    I can assure everyone I donate plenty. I'm just not going to say how and to whom. It's my preference.

    I can in the future sell the house, or sell the points. They could both be investments but not make money as both require costs to purchase and use.

    The DVC points do give flexibility, but so does the house, I could keep my poncho in the closet there, not repack it or buy one over and over again.

    I can't rent the house, but could lend it to family and friend so it would get more use than three weeks a year. I could do the same with DVC points but it's limited to how many point I have which may be none after I use them.
    thats my point though when your lending to friends how is disney going to know they tossed you say half the price of a hotel room a night to stay there? it can be both a long term investment with short term income potential to cover at least some of your yearly residency costs. those fees and taxes can certainly add up over time if you don't find a way to cover them.

    Leave a comment:


  • goofy donald
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    Originally posted by mikelieman View Post
    NEITHER is an investment, so the way to think of it is 'how do I get the most bang for my entertainment dollar?"

    I don't think buying 'on-site' real-estate is worth the expense, given that you could stay in monorail concierge rooms for less, and have all those helpful castmembers hanging out to do all the things like... everything...

    Not sure how DVC points work out. Could be good. Could be bad. Really need to sit down with a spreadsheet and work the numbers...
    last time i checked buying property is a significant investment...

    Leave a comment:


  • brianpinsky
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    DVC has more than one location.

    Leave a comment:


  • jcruise86
    replied
    Re: If you were me would you rather have DVC points or a house in Golden Oaks?

    If you're going to lend it to family and friends you're going to have a surprising # of family members & friends when word gets out that you are lending out a beautiful house inside of Walt Disney World for free. (BTW, Swampy, though we've just exchanged often snippy posts on Micechat, I consider you one of my best friends, buddy!)

    I've observed that many people with beautiful houses or condos in beautiful vacation areas decide after a few years, "We might as well rent it out and earn some money from it." Then the renters :evil: :ap: :captain: always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS
    .trash the place and the owners lose their love for the whole deal.

    On the other hand, as you stated, you could keep your pancho in the closet there. I get disposable ponchos that fit comfortably into my back pocket and cost about a buck. But it would be so worth buying a million dollars house if I didn't have to go through that hell AND if I could save $5 on ponchos once a year.

    But seriously, it might be a good investment. A lot of people love Disney, but I'd feel better about it if it were about 1985 and I thought a young, competitive Michael Eisner & Frank Wells were going to try and dramatically improve Walt Disney World. I'm not feeling very optimistic about WDW's future right now with the later Eisner's spawn running the show. With more cash you could stay at a suite at Universal for part of your Orlando area vacation and get free unlimited Orlando Fastpasses ("Potter passes"?) for you and yer kinfolk.

    My brother got the DVC at Old Key West and loved if for about the first four years, then seemed to regret it after that.

    Have you been on a Disney Cruise? Treat you niece and nephew to a Disney Cruise to Alaska or the Mediterranean. Maybe give their parents a break and let "Uncy Swampy" become their favorite relative.

    Toonaspie makes a good case for DVC above, but imagine treating the kids the Wilderness Lodge, the Polynesian and the Animal Kingdom Lodge resorts on three different trips over the next three years. And then a trip to California with three or more nights at the Grand Californian--but only two or three days in the parks. (There's so much more to do here!) Then Tokyo and Hong Kong. And then London and Paris with Paris Disneyland for three nights. They'd probably appreciate this more, especially as they got older. Let the world stimulate their minds. And if you need more family members, my wife, daughter and I could all pretend to be cousins! We're all part-time actors, though what we really want to do is direct. . . your vacations.

    It's excellent that you have such pleasant options, Swampymarsh!
    Last edited by jcruise86; 11-05-2013, 11:39 PM. Reason: I'm trying to make my extremely helpful post perfect for Swampy who might lend his Golden Oaks house to friends!

    Leave a comment:

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