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  • Where's the outrage?

    Another website is reporting that a new Pooh-themed playground will appear on a portion of the site of the former 20,000 Leagues lagoon. Yep, an E-Ticket rots for 11 years and then we get (drum roll) an area for five-year old to run around and pick up germs from others their age.

    Did I miss something when Disney drags out the old interview with Walt where he speaks of building Disneyland because he wanted 'a place where parents and children could have fun TOGETHER'?

    Imust have because it seems like everthing Disney puts in its parks nowadays skews toward either very young children or thrill-riders. One might also argue that they fail more often than not on both counts.

  • #2
    Yeah, I missed this in my update today (whoops!)

    Though I have a toddler, I share your distaste. There should be places for families to have fun TOGETHER
    Kevin Yee
    MiceAge Columnist

    I am the author of several Disney books:
    Jason's Disneyland Almanac - a daily history of Disneyland
    Walt Disney World Hidden History - tributes, homages, and ride remnants at WDW
    Your Day at the Magic Kingdom
    Mouse Trap
    Tokyo Disney Made Easy
    101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland
    Magic Quizdom (The Disneyland Trivia Book)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by WDW1974
      Another website is reporting that a new Pooh-themed playground will appear on a portion of the site of the former 20,000 Leagues lagoon. Yep, an E-Ticket rots for 11 years and then we get (drum roll) an area for five-year old to run around and pick up germs from others their age.

      Did I miss something when Disney drags out the old interview with Walt where he speaks of building Disneyland because he wanted 'a place where parents and children could have fun TOGETHER'?

      Imust have because it seems like everthing Disney puts in its parks nowadays skews toward either very young children or thrill-riders. One might also argue that they fail more often than not on both counts.
      Well buddy, I am ranting thru a 200+ post thread ( elsewhere and probably 20% of the posts are mine) on this exact topic and it is me and one other against the horde of Disney apologists that are ripping me for not seeing that this is better than a rotting lagoon. Nevermind that the lagoon has been rotting for 11 years and management has chosen to ignore. I am not giving up the fight over there and refuse to put on the rose colored - Harry Caray size glasses for this. And for some reason the argument is that now that they have filled in the lagoon and will open this freakin' playground on the site... that there must be plans for more. When has management promised anything for this land-- answer - never. Heck it took them years to admit they were not going to re-open 20K....yet the apologists have rolled out every argument, from the kids need a place to take a break also ( even though Toon Town and Donalds water boat are maybe 1000 feet away... to the usually-- well they don't have an unlimited budget chatter. makes me want to yak.......all this playground is doing is giving reason for management to now say...look what we did...so call me in another 11 years. Actually had one suggestion for a picnic area and BBQ grills in the area. This on what may be one of the most valuable pieces of land per sq. ft anywhere......
      When did people start accepting this as Disney quality ? I am just confused -- and battered but still fighting....the strip malling of Main Street just got itself an extension....and yet people seem to be happy....the suits are smiling in Mouseland !
      At least here I hope to see some similar concern for the fact that MK and all of WDW deserves quality over quantity of things to do.....in an area that begs for an e-ticket -- or at the very least a dark ride ... we get a playground. And the argument that it is better than a rotting lagoon, just gives a pass to mgmt for the eyesore that should never have been allowed to sit for 11 years in that state. I would bet most of the people making excuses such as " that is all water under the bridge now" would not let something like that sit in their front yard for 11 years.
      Last edited by VBdad55; 03-29-2005, 06:06 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by KevinYee
        Yeah, I missed this in my update today (whoops!)

        Though I have a toddler, I share your distaste. There should be places for families to have fun TOGETHER
        It's OK. You're forgiven ;-)

        Enjoyed the update. Sadly, it sounds like they took a terrible attraction in Stitch and made it even worse. I already knew Cinderellabration wouldn't be good. The Tokyo version just looks incredible as it's staged at night and has lights and statues all over the Hub. TDLFAN has taken some great pics of it.
        Am looking forward to trying the TT Noodle Station in a few weeks.

        Back to the original point, though. Disney seems to be plowing full-steam ahead with segregating its audiences according to age with offerings such as this, not to mention attractions like Playhouse Disney and way too many character meals (that have ruined some great restaurants, IMHO).

        Somewhere along the line, Walt's idea for what he wanted DL (and WDW's MK) to be about morphed into what we have now. Glorified McDonald's playgrounds themed to Pooh, attractions like Mission Space (which I enjoy but realize it keeps many folks from riding), places like Pleasure Island etc ...Disney is trying to be all things to all people individually rather than craft attractions and experiences that most people will get something out of. In my opinion, they are failing miserably.

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow! VBDAD, you weren't kidding. I just checked out the other 'place' ...I hate to say it, but I find it typical. It's the old people are willing to accept anything these days argument and it doesn't fly with me. I don't shop at WalMart (you may have heard this ;-) ), I don't eat at Olive Garden, I don't buy GM cars, I don't fly SWA etc ... I want better and am willing to pay for it (although any smart shopper will tell you that you don't have to).

          I do understand the mentality at play, the dumbing down of American society. It's touchy when you bring it up because you get the 'so you think I'm stupid?' response.
          I know what WDW was like in the 70s and 80s (why am I telling you this ... oh wait, there are others here too!) ... I would give up DAK in a second to have the MK, EPCOT Center and Disney-MGM back ... back to what they were 15 years ago. I would give up any of the resorts built since 1995, to know that my WDW Resort room would be clean and well-maintained. I'd even pay more for it.

          Let's just look at all the attractions that have left the MK withOUT replacement (overlays get a pass, shops don't):
          Penny Arcade;
          Walt Disney Story;
          Firehouse;
          Main Street Cinema;
          Diamond Horseshoe Review;
          Keelboats;
          Canoes;
          Skyway;
          and 20,000 Leagues;

          That doesn't include all the shops that have been shuttered and/or replaced by plush and pins; restaurants replaced by ODV carts, and live entertainment cut back.

          Maybe Al Lutz wants to move to Orlando? Real estate is cheap (unless you live in Celebration).

          Comment


          • #6
            Something I forgot to add, people get too caught up in the sheer size of WDW. It's the bigger is better mentality. So the fact the parks are shells of what the once were doesn' matter. It's the masterful Disney PR machine. So what if CoP closes? You can experience the new stunt show at MGM. So what if there's only 2-3 attractions worth seeing at MGM? Take a boat over to Epcot and ride Soarin. And never fear, wherever you are they'll be plenty of pins, plush and princesses to get you the 'magic' Disney touts.

            I want substance, over bad style. I'm fully aware (sadly) that the great, unwashed masses just want to share a turkey leg, while waiting for a four-year-old parade.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by VBdad55
              Well buddy, I am ranting thru a 200+ post thread ( elsewhere and probably 20% of the posts are mine) on this exact topic and it is me and one other against the horde of Disney apologists that are ripping me for not seeing that this is better than a rotting lagoon. Nevermind that the lagoon has been rotting for 11 years and management has chosen to ignore. I am not giving up the fight over there and refuse to put on the rose colored - Harry Caray size glasses for this. And for some reason the argument is that now that they have filled in the lagoon and will open this freakin' playground on the site... that there must be plans for more. When has management promised anything for this land-- answer - never. Heck it took them years to admit they were not going to re-open 20K....yet the apologists have rolled out every argument, from the kids need a place to take a break also ( even though Toon Town and Donalds water boat are maybe 1000 feet away... to the usually-- well they don't have an unlimited budget chatter. makes me want to yak.......all this playground is doing is giving reason for management to now say...look what we did...so call me in another 11 years. Actually had one suggestion for a picnic area and BBQ grills in the area. This on what may be one of the most valuable pieces of land per sq. ft anywhere......
              When did people start accepting this as Disney quality ? I am just confused -- and battered but still fighting....the strip malling of Main Street just got itself an extension....and yet people seem to be happy....the suits are smiling in Mouseland !
              At least here I hope to see some similar concern for the fact that MK and all of WDW deserves quality over quantity of things to do.....in an area that begs for an e-ticket -- or at the very least a dark ride ... we get a playground. And the argument that it is better than a rotting lagoon, just gives a pass to mgmt for the eyesore that should never have been allowed to sit for 11 years in that state. I would bet most of the people making excuses such as " that is all water under the bridge now" would not let something like that sit in their front yard for 11 years.
              Can I get an AMEN! :bow:

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by AuroraRose
                Can I get an AMEN! :bow:
                Thank you Aurora Rose...I just am starting to realize the sense of realism here....btw....I am wrapping up my rant elsewhere as it took 250 posts but finally the post I expected...if you hate it so much- stop going-- that will show them ! Much like when I was approaching draft age in the late 60's / early 70's and you chose to say that maybe not everything being done by America had our best interests at heart-- the "America , love it or leave it " bunch came out...I didn't buy the all or nothing approach to opinions then, and I still dont; buy it today. A person can't criticize any single thing Disney does without being labeled a traitor somehow, or not loving Disney etc. It is so ludicrous....
                As a DVC member / stockholder I am financially invested, as a fan I am emotionally invested, but of course the suits at Disney management can do nothing wrong, and always have our best interests at heart..we just need to be patient to see the bigger plan........etc. It is not hard to see why the dumbing down of America is occuring.....people will accept anything thrown at them as long as they do not have to take a stand other than the status quo on what it is......

                I always give credit where credit is due -- but if it walks like a duck, sound like a duck and looks like a duck...it is a damn duck ! A playground is a playground..not a Disney attraction....however that approach does not seem popular everywhere , where it is blasphemy to think that the secret plans for that great e-ticket attraction on the 20K site have just been misplaced for 11 years and in secret they are working on it now....sigh !

                Comment


                • #9
                  Where is the outrage?
                  Robert Blake gets off, Our ER's are closing, jobs are leaving the country, and we are in the biggest debt in our history. Forget all that. The real issue is the Pooh playground.

                  Now I'm mad.
                  "As usual he's taken over the coolest spot in the house"- Father re: Orville 1963

                  [FONT=Arial Narrow]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think it is time for us to start up a Disney World Blues thread. Just post your pictures of Disney World's decline, and we'll feature it in the Weekly MiceChat Roundup whenever possible.

                    Now that Jay and Matt are in California, who's watching the store in Florida?
                    MiceChat 101: Be NICE! If you don't play well with others, you are in the wrong sandbox.

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                    • #11
                      Ssssshhhhh.. Don't speak to loud, we don't want Matt O. leaving for Florida.
                      1st Amendment-Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cousin Orville
                        Where is the outrage?
                        Robert Blake gets off, Our ER's are closing, jobs are leaving the country, and we are in the biggest debt in our history. Forget all that. The real issue is the Pooh playground.

                        Now I'm mad.
                        The same root cause to all of them, the acceptance of the dumbing down of our country along with lack of focus on quality.....and the largest.. a lack of leadership and direction. I agree there are way bigger issues, especially the jobs leaving our country...I have much first hand insight into this, and if people realized just how fast our children's future is being transferred offshore to save a few $$, I would hope they would be more frightened. People still are of the belief it is 'just' blue collar jobs which some view as beneath others ( unjustly) - but white collar job flight is outpacing it by a long stretch right now-- with no end in sight.
                        If you have children in school studying for any job that does not involve direct people contact on a daily basis, be very worried. Anything that can be done over the net is at risk--( ask where your xrays are being read next time you have occasion to get them-- you may be shocked )

                        So while I agree with you...the playground seems to be as good an area as any to rant on.......

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dustysage
                          I think it is time for us to start up a Disney World Blues thread. Just post your pictures of Disney World's decline, and we'll feature it in the Weekly MiceChat Roundup whenever possible.

                          Now that Jay and Matt are in California, who's watching the store in Florida?
                          Sounds like a perfect stage for a TDL quality walk to me !

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cousin Orville
                            Where is the outrage?
                            Robert Blake gets off, Our ER's are closing, jobs are leaving the country, and we are in the biggest debt in our history. Forget all that. The real issue is the Pooh playground.

                            Now I'm mad.
                            Although I agree with WDW1974's original message...

                            Thanks Orville for always keeping things in perspective. How's the weather in Bombay?
                            Last edited by RonNYC; 03-29-2005, 11:50 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              They used to have a bigger playground area in toontown fair where barnstormer is now. it had climbing nets and balls to jump in. it was only there for a short time and then they built goofy. so lets up this playground thing is temporary and that a really great attraction is coming soon-how about a villians roller coaster???

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Dustysage
                                I think it is time for us to start up a Disney World Blues thread. Just post your pictures of Disney World's decline, and we'll feature it in the Weekly MiceChat Roundup whenever possible.

                                Now that Jay and Matt are in California, who's watching the store in Florida?

                                Well Dusty..I have been doing just that for like.. years, but then people started sending me hate mail... go figure.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by VBdad55
                                  I agree there are way bigger issues, especially the jobs leaving our country...I have much first hand insight into this, and if people realized just how fast our children's future is being transferred offshore to save a few $$, I would hope they would be more frightened. People still are of the belief it is 'just' blue collar jobs which some view as beneath others ( unjustly) - but white collar job flight is outpacing it by a long stretch right now-- with no end in sight.
                                  If you have children in school studying for any job that does not involve direct people contact on a daily basis, be very worried. Anything that can be done over the net is at risk--( ask where your xrays are being read next time you have occasion to get them-- you may be shocked )
                                  I don't know what bugs me more: that most people are utterly unaware of this problem (white collar offshoring), or the bozo pundits who keep on insisting that the wholesale offshoring of jobs is somehow a "win-win".

                                  You are right that any job performed at a desk can be offshored. Graphic design work is being offshored. Medical transcription work is being offshored. Legal research work is being offshored. Supply chain management is being offshored. You name it, its going overseas. The Fortune 500 are on a hiring spree, but not in the US.

                                  Unless something happens we will be a 3rd world nation within 20-30 years.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by fkurucz
                                    I don't know what bugs me more: that most people are utterly unaware of this problem (white collar offshoring), or the bozo pundits who keep on insisting that the wholesale offshoring of jobs is somehow a "win-win".

                                    You are right that any job performed at a desk can be offshored. Graphic design work is being offshored. Medical transcription work is being offshored. Legal research work is being offshored. Supply chain management is being offshored. You name it, its going overseas. The Fortune 500 are on a hiring spree, but not in the US.

                                    Unless something happens we will be a 3rd world nation within 20-30 years.
                                    You are so on target here......I live in an area that is mainly middle management and above yet is like taboo to speak of this...and yet it escalates every day, and I am not the only one involved in the workings of this.....I am in OD management and the supply chain you speak of ( which includes finance & revenue claiming / order entry and shipping / billing / parts/ contracts etc is basically gone......and in less than a few years...and where we put most of those jobs - our competitors are right around the proverbial corner....

                                    Large tax preparation companies -- not much time left -- those jobs all going offshore....

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by karliebug
                                      that a really great attraction is coming soon-how about a villians roller coaster???

                                      I like it!


                                      That can work really well especially since it's at the border of fantasyland
                                      and tomorrowland. Can get both types in there! The problem is the
                                      story, but maybe get something like the Fantasmic story line (all gang
                                      up to torment Mickey).

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by VBdad55
                                        Large tax preparation companies -- not much time left -- those jobs all going offshore....
                                        Actually not completely true (although probably 90% correct), although the real work part of tax prep will/can go off shore, the retail aspect (local HR Block store) can't.

                                        Comment

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