Filthy Kingdom/Beautiful Kingdom/Magic Kingdom

[WDW1974]

Visited the MK today for a short visit and here's some of the good, the bad and the ugly.

GOOD: Well, it's the MK. Even Phil Holmes and Al Weiss can't destroy the inate magic the place holds (not that they're not trying).

Small World has NEVER looked better. Disney did a masterful job of restoring this attraction to its old glory and then some. Adding the recreation of the DL facade inside makes it come alive and brings out all of Mary Blair's design elements ...truly wonderful. GREAT SHOW!

The Hub. I admit it, I was wrong. I thought it was going to look terrible, but the redesigned look is quite nice and retains the Partners statue, but loses all the smaller ones. With flowers in bloom all around the planters and Hub waterways, it was quite beautiful. And Disney likely won't have as many lawsuits without any curbs to deal with. Of course, anyone who sits here in about eight months of the year is going to cook.

The Castle overlay looks terrific. Not like the tacky B-Day Cake ... or the horrible hat at MGM and Wand at Epcot. This is almost classy. The characters aren't overdone and even the mirror (while large) isn't overpowering. Castle now dominates the scene now like it should, even more than ever.

Uptown Jewerlers has reopened its back third that was walled off about six months ago.

Wishes. Still incredible. And the best regular MK fireworks show ever.

CMs: Much like yesterday at Epcot, everyone was good to excellent. This seems to be a very encouraging trend. Lots are CPers too.

The BAD:

Uptown Jewerlers has reopened its back third filled with pins because as anyone will tell you, there just aren't enough places to buy the little trinkets, which now average $8-12 a pop.

Cinderellabration: I knew going in that this was just a pale shadow of the Tokyo spectacular, but while an improvement over the kiddy Cindy's Foamhead Surprise show, it just seems like a wasted effort. The costumes, especially Cindy's dress, are very nice. The music is fine. But the overall effort is quite ho-hum. Not awful, but not special or memorable in any way. Also, seems quite short (both timewise and in number of performers/characters) for something they are promoting so heavily.

Guests are PIGS, CMs are WAY understaffed to deal with it: There's no real nice way to put this. But at 9:30 the Hub area and most of Main Street looked like Dolphins Stadium after an NFL game (just minus the beer bottles). The walkways were covered in litter, everything from half-ful drink cups, to hot dogs that fell from their buns to French Fries to empty gallon bottles of Gatorade etc ... it was FILTHY. No way to soften it. No I'm not hyping this. Suffice to say, it's a picture the media won't see when they are wined and dined in a few weeks. I looked around in all directions expecting to hear those giant grabage-sucking machines they use to clean, but there weren't any ... and there were none, zero, nada CMs attempting to clean any of it until well after the 10 p.m. closing. The first machine, which used to always come out as soon as SpectroMagic ended, made its first trip around the Hub area at 10:25 p.m. Sorry, but that's unacceptable for a company that built its reputation and still puts out press releases touting its cleanliness. I've never been to a Six Flags park, but that's the way I imagine they'd be. Also, FWIW, I have NEVER seen Disneyland ever look anything like that on its busiest days like July 4th. AWFUL SHOW!

Monorails are dirty inside.

The Athletic Shop, which doesn't even stock golf shirts and ESPN merchandise anymore because you can't get Goofy tees anywhere, was also very dirty with merchandise all over. Reminded me of a T.J. Maxx store I ran in for a gift last year 3-4 days before Christmas. Stuff on the floor, drinks left on displays, carts wheeled in with coats and sweatshirts (weather is unseasonably cool, 52 tonight) blocking paths etc ... very bad show.

Tomorrowland Noodle Station: Bring back the Plaza Pavillion. Very mediocre attempt at Asian cuisine, including Costco-style inedible chicken egg rolls, bland chicken terriyaki. Saw lots of folks tossing food away. Variety is good, but you need quality too.

Strollers and ECVs are EVERYWHERE. Sorry, but this is largely due to lazy people raising lazy kids. You can barely move anywhere with them. Eight-year-old don't need strollers. Strollers aren't meant as carry-alls. ECV's should be for truly disabled folks, not obese people who are too lazy to walk for their turkey legs.

The UGLY:

Those gates they are installing at the MK monorail station. They look like they belong in a prison, not a Victorian era station. I don't understand why (well, I do, the lawyers made them do it) they were needed when things were just fine for 35 years without them. But if you install them, at least spend the money to theme the damn things.

Town Square. Take pics of DL's with tulips. Contrast with MK's -- a few saplings with the same wood chips/mulch I have in my planters at home. C'mon, Disney, you can do much better than that.

[RichardRiga]

Here, here! Well said, and concurred.

I love the part about ECVs and strollers: You hit the money there. MK has been affectionately named "Stroller Hell" since 2002 when I started getting hit by them on a regular basis.

Guests can be pigs, mainly because there is no sense of self-ownership, especially if you're not a resident. What ever happened to pick up after yourself?

Good review, and darn accurate..

[Digital Underworld]

The BAD:

Uptown Jewerlers has reopened its back third filled with pins because as anyone will tell you, there just aren't enough places to buy the little trinkets, which now average $8-12 a pop.

Cinderellabration: I knew going in that this was just a pale shadow of the Tokyo spectacular, but while an improvement over the kiddy Cindy's Foamhead Surprise show, it just seems like a wasted effort. The costumes, especially Cindy's dress, are very nice. The music is fine. But the overall effort is quite ho-hum. Not awful, but not special or memorable in any way. Also, seems quite short (both timewise and in number of performers/characters) for something they are promoting so heavily.

Guests are PIGS, CMs are WAY understaffed to deal with it: There's no real nice way to put this. But at 9:30 the Hub area and most of Main Street looked like Dolphins Stadium after an NFL game (just minus the beer bottles). The walkways were covered in litter, everything from half-ful drink cups, to hot dogs that fell from their buns to French Fries to empty gallon bottles of Gatorade etc ... it was FILTHY. No way to soften it. No I'm not hyping this. Suffice to say, it's a picture the media won't see when they are wined and dined in a few weeks. I looked around in all directions expecting to hear those giant grabage-sucking machines they use to clean, but there weren't any ... and there were none, zero, nada CMs attempting to clean any of it until well after the 10 p.m. closing. The first machine, which used to always come out as soon as SpectroMagic ended, made its first trip around the Hub area at 10:25 p.m. Sorry, but that's unacceptable for a company that built its reputation and still puts out press releases touting its cleanliness. I've never been to a Six Flags park, but that's the way I imagine they'd be. Also, FWIW, I have NEVER seen Disneyland ever look anything like that on its busiest days like July 4th. AWFUL SHOW!

Monorails are dirty inside.

The Athletic Shop, which doesn't even stock golf shirts and ESPN merchandise anymore because you can't get Goofy tees anywhere, was also very dirty with merchandise all over. Reminded me of a T.J. Maxx store I ran in for a gift last year 3-4 days before Christmas. Stuff on the floor, drinks left on displays, carts wheeled in with coats and sweatshirts (weather is unseasonably cool, 52 tonight) blocking paths etc ... very bad show.

Tomorrowland Noodle Station: Bring back the Plaza Pavillion. Very mediocre attempt at Asian cuisine, including Costco-style inedible chicken egg rolls, bland chicken terriyaki. Saw lots of folks tossing food away. Variety is good, but you need quality too.

Strollers and ECVs are EVERYWHERE. Sorry, but this is largely due to lazy people raising lazy kids. You can barely move anywhere with them. Eight-year-old don't need strollers. Strollers aren't meant as carry-alls. ECV's should be for truly disabled folks, not obese people who are too lazy to walk for their turkey legs.

The UGLY:

Those gates they are installing at the MK monorail station. They look like they belong in a prison, not a Victorian era station. I don't understand why (well, I do, the lawyers made them do it) they were needed when things were just fine for 35 years without them. But if you install them, at least spend the money to theme the damn things.

Town Square. Take pics of DL's with tulips. Contrast with MK's -- a few saplings with the same wood chips/mulch I have in my planters at home. C'mon, Disney, you can do much better than that.

Why do you even go to the parks if all you do is nitpick about how everything is going downhill? Do you even have fun? Is this all you do while there? I have never seen the parks as bad as you have described it in my 28 trips. I think you are telling tall tales. If you want to send Disney a message, don't go there. Don't spend your money at their businesses.

[BurningStroller]

Would you rather read thousands of posts that say, "had a great time at Disney", "had a great time at Disney", "had a great time at Disney"? The reason why these websites and message boards exists is for people to pick apart the Disney company. Historically, all we do on these boards are speculate over blue sky projects that never come do be. Once something does get green-lighted we harp all over that from the concept, to the ground clearing, to the soft openings, for years. Then once it's open we talk about how much better it could have been. Thats the nature of these boards. We still love the park, but get a little frustrated with it sometimes (although I dont think it's the park as much as the people in it).

[KevinYee]

Why do you even go to the parks if all you do is nitpick about how everything is going downhill?

That's a bit unfair. As noted above, this is a message board, which would quickly becoming boring if we wanted only to sing the praises of Disney. There are other message boards for that.

But beyond that, I think it's unfair to the original poster. He took pains to start with several positive things... hardly the nitpicking and complaining that EVERYTHING is going downhill.

[ti2gr]

It's true that teh guests are PIGS. There could be a trash can 5 feet away and they will drop trash on the ground. Half the time they are the ones complaining about teh meess as well. Last time I was at MK, waiting for Wishes. This fat sklo in an ECV was sitting right next to a trash can, but could he use it, no, he threw his trash on the ground. All he had to do is reach up and push the door in and drop his trash.

In regards to the trash vacuums, They usually don't come out until after Wishes now because after the parade everyone is just standing around waiting for Wishes. At least after the fireworks, there is some room to maneuver them around.

The Castmembers are doing their best trying to keep the place clean, but most of the time it's the rudeness of the guests throwing their trash wherever they want. I work in one of the hotels ( a deluxe one) and the other day was making a room delivery. Sometimes it's easier to use the stairs, outside one of the doorways was a WDW merchandise bag. A guest had changed their kids diapers and left the bag outside the staircase door rather than throwing it in the trash. How disgusting. I guess it goes to prove you can take the trash out of trailer park, but you can't take the trailer park out of the trash.

[Witches of Morva]

ORDDU: It's always good to point out the negatives as well as the positives and that's what this thread was created for. Someone needs to keep current management at Disney on their toes and the ducklings as Miceage are just the ones to do so.

[buzz lightbeer]

Historically, all we do on these boards are speculate over blue sky projects that never come do be. Once something does get green-lighted we harp all over that from the concept, to the ground clearing, to the soft openings, for years. Then once it's open we talk about how much better it could have been.

You forgot to mention, once it is gone, we all talk about how we miss it so! :lol:

Disney standards have slipped and we've all noticed. However, I don't think there is a member here that wouldn't rather be at the parks any given day. Criticising what we love is part of being a fan. Trust me, I rag on my Chicago Bears all season long, but wouldn't look at another team. Disney is the same way. When things are great, we love it. When things are bad, we miss days of old.

[TDLFAN]

I still have fun at WDW, but my many pictorials from the MK do show the reality of the state of the MK as of late. For the money they make in profits, they could do much better in maintenance issues.

[WDW1974]

Here, here! Well said, and concurred.

I love the part about ECVs and strollers: You hit the money there. MK has been affectionately named "Stroller Hell" since 2002 when I started getting hit by them on a regular basis.

Guests can be pigs, mainly because there is no sense of self-ownership, especially if you're not a resident. What ever happened to pick up after yourself?

Good review, and darn accurate..

Personal responsibility in this country has pretty much disappeared in the past 15 years.

And thanks for the kind words.

[WDW1974]

Why do you even go to the parks if all you do is nitpick about how everything is going downhill? Do you even have fun? Is this all you do while there? I have never seen the parks as bad as you have described it in my 28 trips. I think you are telling tall tales. If you want to send Disney a message, don't go there. Don't spend your money at their businesses.

I go to the parks because I love them. But I'm glad you feel you know me enough to judge me as someone who only 'nitpicks.' I almost always have fun. And, when I don't it's usually do to people -- other guests, awful CMs or even my traveling companions.

I probably shouldn't even bother responding to you because my feeling is you're just looking to bait me, but that would be rushing to judgment too. I have a very obervant and discerning eye. I know all about Disney standards for show quality, cleanliness, safety etc ... You've made 28 trips? Sounds impressive. I have made hundreds over the past 30 years. I think I got you beat. I think my perspective has a bit more weight because of that.

I don't tell 'tall tales.' And as I said before, evidentally you missed that in my post, that I don't believe you give up an old friend you love just because they may be going through some tough times. There are many ways to bring about positive change at WDW. If I keep my money from Disney, it's just a drop in the bucket. There are plenty of folks out there that don't mind Disney's lowered standards aka the WalMarting of the parks, and will spend their money instead. No, I have no intention of stop visiting parks I love just because Disney wants to see how low it can go.

[WDW1974]

That's a bit unfair. As noted above, this is a message board, which would quickly becoming boring if we wanted only to sing the praises of Disney. There are other message boards for that.

But beyond that, I think it's unfair to the original poster. He took pains to start with several positive things... hardly the nitpicking and complaining that EVERYTHING is going downhill.

Thanks, Kevin. I (obviously) agree. It gets very boring discussing why WDW is magical. Obviously it is still a wonderful place, or I wouldn't go.

But it's gone way downhill from its glory days in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. Anyone who can't see that either -- 1.) Didn't ever visit before the late 90s; 2.) Isn't a regular visitor. 3.) Doesn't have an eye for detail; 4.) Doesn't understand what sets Disney apart from other theme parks; 5.) Isn't the brightest bulb;

I enjoy Disney, but I'm not blind. I know Disney CMs used to walk thru queues (where food and beverages weren't allowed) sweeping up anything on the ground, and you would never see trash literally covering the ground like it was Friday night at the MK. I know Disney didn't use to build attractions that segregated audiences according to age. I know Disney didn't build attractions around characters belching and spitting on the audience and calling that entertainment. I know Disney used to have themed shops that weren't all pins, plush and princesses. I know Disney used to keep its parks open late because people on vacation (sane ones anyway) usually like to stay out later and sleep in later because you can get up at 5 a.m. and go to sleep at 9 p.m. any night at home etc ... etc ... I could go on further, but I have the feeling this thread will go on a while, so I'll save some points for later

[WDW1974]

It's true that teh guests are PIGS. There could be a trash can 5 feet away and they will drop trash on the ground. Half the time they are the ones complaining about teh meess as well. Last time I was at MK, waiting for Wishes. This fat sklo in an ECV was sitting right next to a trash can, but could he use it, no, he threw his trash on the ground. All he had to do is reach up and push the door in and drop his trash. .

Why? There's always someone else to clean up your mess. That's the attitude.

In regards to the trash vacuums, They usually don't come out until after Wishes now because after the parade everyone is just standing around waiting for Wishes. At least after the fireworks, there is some room to maneuver them around.

That was my thought due to crowds, also likely Disney Legal worrying about them running into a child or something. But it's stupid. If the park gets filthy, leaving it like that just encourages others to trash the place as well. Common sense about human behavior.

I work in one of the hotels ( a deluxe one) and the other day was making a room delivery. Sometimes it's easier to use the stairs, outside one of the doorways was a WDW merchandise bag. A guest had changed their kids diapers and left the bag outside the staircase door rather than throwing it in the trash. How disgusting. I guess it goes to prove you can take the trash out of trailer park, but you can't take the trailer park out of the trash.

First off, I hope you don't work at DAK Lodge because I'll be checking in there in 12 hours! But I actually witnessed the exact same thing at that resort the last time I stayed there. I had to call down to the front desk because I felt it presented a potential health risk. Took them six hours to remove it. I would had sent security up there and explained that you don't do that, polite and firm. ... Suppose it could have been worse, they could have tossed it in with the animals.

[WDW1974]

I still have fun at WDW, but my many pictorials from the MK do show the reality of the state of the MK as of late. For the money they make in profits, they could do much better in maintenance issues.

I do wish you could have been there with your camera, TDLFAN.

Pics don't lie. Take a MK trip when you get back, go at night, park yourself in the Hub or near the ice cream shop, wait for Spectro to end and you'll have plenty to photograph.

[monorail_rider]

Why do you even go to the parks if all you do is nitpick about how everything is going downhill? Do you even have fun? Is this all you do while there? I have never seen the parks as bad as you have described it in my 28 trips. I think you are telling tall tales. If you want to send Disney a message, don't go there. Don't spend your money at their businesses.

As it has been said above (but I will add my $.02also) Posting "good,bad,ugly" threads is a good thing. they are not just bashing things about the park. they are simply obversaitions about the parks. We all know that WDW is not 100% la la land, so it's good to talk about the down falls of the parks.

What you may not know is Disney people (not just CM's) read thease boards and they use it to help mold Disney to meet the needs of the public. (another reason Disney don't get mad and sue creators of such boards)


Aside from that. and not to sound like a jerk. If you don't like what another member post, simply move on to another thread. Thats another perk of a board. So many threads to choose from.

[Club 33]

BTW, we can bash Disney up one side and down the other, but let's not forget: We wouldn't be signed up for a message board called MiceChat is we didn't love Disney. His criticisms are constructive, and, in my opinion, well put. He says as many good things as bad things.

For years we all complained about the poor maintanence and management at Disneyland. Now, they're doing a great job and we're definately complimenting them over it. Credit where credit id due.

[monorail_rider]

BTW, we can bash Disney up one side and down the other, but let's not forget: We wouldn't be signed up for a message board called MiceChat is we didn't love Disney.

Good point. I love the mouse and for one to truly love something, you have to take the good withthe bad. *insert mickey smile here*

[Drince88]

The Hub. I admit it, I was wrong. I thought it was going to look terrible, but the redesigned look is quite nice and retains the Partners statue, but loses all the smaller ones. With flowers in bloom all around the planters and Hub waterways, it was quite beautiful. And Disney likely won't have as many lawsuits without any curbs to deal with. Of course, anyone who sits here in about eight months of the year is going to cook.

The Castle overlay looks terrific. Not like the tacky B-Day Cake ... or the horrible hat at MGM and Wand at Epcot. This is almost classy. The characters aren't overdone and even the mirror (while large) isn't overpowering. Castle now dominates the scene now like it should, even more than ever.

Bums me out about the little statues at the Hub - I liked those.

And I'm SO glad the Castle overlay isn't like that birthday cake!!!

[nish221]

Just got back from and I completely agree about the state of MK. IASW is very nice (and
very much nicer than before, BUT it still pales compared to the DL one, both inside and outside).

I actually had horribly low expectations of Cinderellabration (thanks to TDLFAN! :-), but I
was pleasantly surprised. It wasn't great, but it had some highlights (esp. at night). BTW.
I was surprised that the fairy godmother didn't poof off the stage!
Completely agree about the Castle overlay, from the distance, the overall effect is
nice and although I still think the mirror is large, it's not as obstrusive as I had feared.

In addition to garbage though, I was apalled at how many places needed plain old
paint. I'd seen the pics here and elsewhere, but it was almost everywhere. Is Stitch
gnawing at the paint?!? :-)

[WDW1974]

Things are getting better at WDW (in some areas of upkeep) after reaching their nadir between 2000-03 ... but a lot of things were neglected (like at DL) and the fixes won't be easy or cheap. Disney wanted to pinch pennies, so instead of investing a few grand in regular maintainance, they let things fall apart and now have huge pricetags to bring back up to standards.

I am (VERY) cautiously optimistic that things are on the upswing ... but there's no doubt that WDW is very understaffed in maintainance ... and underfunded as well.