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  • TDLFAN
    replied
    Obviously I meant *nothing* to you! Hmmmm....

    Leave a comment:


  • WDW1974
    replied
    Originally posted by Labuda
    Nice to be able to read your posts again, my friend.
    And nice to have you around to keep me honest!

    Now, if you could just get old DVCer Dave over here ... and wacky Trippy ...

    Leave a comment:


  • Labuda
    replied
    Originally posted by WDW1974
    And most of all, he has been the head honcho as a once dynamic, amazing, huge park has begun to feel smaller and empty in parts that once pulsed with life.
    Nice to be able to read your posts again, my friend.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jspider
    replied
    it's interesting in that Disneyland has alot of locals and yet you arn't hearing any outcry on these recent updates they're doing

    the question is will it be a tacky update that totaly throws off the feeling of the origional or seems to mock or spite it or will it be something more modern that seems like it's been there all along *floating leota*

    it's not as hard to market these upgrades as you might think

    take the money spent on one multimillion Eticket divide it up add upgrades to HM, Pirates, Jungle Cruise and new effects to Space

    launch em off like Paris did "Space Mountain Mission II" and do a commercial with Tinkerbell using her wand on attractions to completly redo them

    tell people there is new magic and suprises awaiting them in all of their old classics

    add in a nice little decoration overlay and bam totaly new experience

    Leave a comment:


  • WDW1974
    replied
    I don't think the average WDW guest in 2005 even has a clue what a 'classic' attraction is, let alone why it got to be one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gostone
    replied
    One thing that I was thinking about after reading this and riting what I did is that Disney must wrestle with upgrading/tweaking older rides and building new rides.

    Because alot of their rides are considered "classic" it must be hard for them to adjust them without some sort of public outcry. I guess if they keep the crying down to a minimum then they no they've successfully pulled off the upgrade.

    I remember when there was talk of Madam Leotta's head being replaced with Jennifer Tilly's face after the horrible Haunted Mansion movie came out. There seemed to be a big concern overthem totally ruining the ride.

    It must be tough for imagineers not to anger the purists but still make enough changes to keep things fresh.

    -Gostone

    Leave a comment:


  • pyrone
    replied
    While good ideas and suggestions are wonderful, all of you fans who do not work in the Company do not realize that anything that makes sense or is logical or is a good idea can't happen. Management does not understand things that make sense apparently. They do understand stupid however.

    Also, making a new attraction is more cost effective for them in the long run than overhauling a current one. Sure it may cost several hundred million dollars to build something new, but that new thing will bring new interest and more guests. It is more interesting than a new coat of paint on a current attraction.

    For everyone with great observations of the poor shape of the World(of which I agree), I urge you to make official complaints while you are there. Go to City Hall or Guest Services wherever you are and inform them of the poor quality. Documented complaints are an effective way for change. That's how the anti-smoking policy(though poorly enforced) was implemented in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jspider
    replied
    Originally posted by Gostone
    Ooops, I did want to second the notion that Holiday Overlays would be great. I have been waiting for the Nightmare Before X-mas overlay to come to WDW for years. Others would be great. Are there other Overlays?

    Just build us a Halloween town somewhere in MK. What an underutilized license that is.

    I haven't been to X-mas at WDW but hopefully that'll be my next visit. Ican't wait to see the park all dressed up.

    -Gostone
    I'm thinking that WDW could at least saftly do the Small World overlay as it matches the holidays and still gives tribute to country's all over the world

    as for a Halloween Town addition I'd presently be against it I mean I think they need to go through revitalizing what they have

    Halloween town might not add too much to the workload but really they need to optimize everything first I think

    Leave a comment:


  • Gostone
    replied
    Ooops, I did want to second the notion that Holiday Overlays would be great. I have been waiting for the Nightmare Before X-mas overlay to come to WDW for years. Others would be great. Are there other Overlays?

    Just build us a Halloween town somewhere in MK. What an underutilized license that is.

    I haven't been to X-mas at WDW but hopefully that'll be my next visit. Ican't wait to see the park all dressed up.

    -Gostone

    Leave a comment:


  • Gostone
    replied
    Herc, I am with you on all 25 points. This is a passionate thing for me.

    Epcot is my favorite park and I hate to see it falling apart. I don't want it to become a thrill ride park. I really think Test Track and Mission:Space totally missed the point of the park. They are barely engaging and educational.

    I know it sounds rediculous but I love the educational aspect of the park and I want more of it. Do not dumb down this park. It's the education that makes it special.

    The idea behind innoventions is neat but let's get some new stuff in there. It should be a priority to keep innoventions up to date.

    The countries in the world showcase used to have really unique stuff but now you can go to any international market and find a more varied selection. We really need a couple new countries and to finish the pavilions that are in place already.

    So much to say ... so much frustration....Arggggg

    -Gostone

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Eggz
    replied
    Originally posted by Herc
    Hmmmm, I have to agree whole-heartedly that Epcot is going downhill...

    ...I know some of my ideas won't work or would never be considered, but we can all dream...right Dreamfinder? Oh he isn't around anymore.
    Well said, Herc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jspider
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Eggz
    I can understand being critcal of project Gemini, there are some things about it I didn't like either, but the overall idea--refurbishing all of Epcot at once so everything felt cohesive and unified and brought new life into the park--was brilliant and bold and good old-fashoned Disney thinking. Disney is rarely bold these days. Today, most Disney executives are timid little children afraid to make waves. Disneyland in '55 made waves, as did the Magic Kingdom at WDW and to a lesser extent EPCOT Center in '82 (but Walt's plan was much bolder). Disney doesn't do that anymore. Animal Kingdom came close, but budget cuts showed the timid nature that was developing whithin Disney at the time. Today Disney ideas are recycled versions of things that have not only been done before, but been done hundreds of times before.

    And it's always important to look at someone's motivations for doing something. Does anyone think Brad Rex killed Gemini because he wanted to preserve Epcot's histroy? No, the man is afraid to spend money on a long term investment which may not yield returns until after he has left his role, and therfore not get the credit.

    yeah some of Gemini was probably a good idea

    looking at Epcot it still looks to be in need of a almost total future world redo

    I really think they should try to find a better balance between learning and thrills

    yeah Epcot before was a little "too" educational and without enough emphasis on entertainment

    but now it seems like they've thrown nothing but thrills sacrificing interactivity and all you "learn" is the stuff that's painfully obvious anyways

    Leave a comment:


  • Herc
    replied
    Hmmmm, I have to agree whole-heartedly that Epcot is going downhill. Didn't WDI
    or any of the higher ups look at the orginal concept drawings of the Space Pavillion? Mission Space is
    just a "ride". Test Track is just a "ride". Bazillions of dollars on two rides. With the old World of Motion, the
    attraction was the pavillion, but it engulfed you. It took you through the world
    of motion from the very beginning in a similar way Spaceship Earth deals with
    communications. Let's all visit this fascinating place they call Epcot. Here's my top 25 (since the execs should be working on the 25th
    anniversary by now).

    1. The tombstones..er...photo images placed on granite at the entrance should be
    removed. It was a bad idea from the start.
    2. Can water play a part in the fountain at the entrance again and bring back or
    recreate the acrylic centerpiece.
    3. A general rehab for Spaceship Earth including grease for the squeek. And
    since it deals with communications, can someone talk to someone about getting a
    communications company in to help sponsor.
    4. Why couldn't World of Motion be kept and Test Track built behind it. It still
    could have gone around the outside of the building. They don't make attractions
    like this anymore and it is ashame. Those are the type of attractions I call
    "Disney".
    5. Can we please get Dreamfinder back at Imagination and try to do something
    with this pathetic redo.
    6. I need to say the same with the Living Seas. Bring back the SeaCabs. Bring
    this place back to life.
    7. Haven't seen the Land yet, but it looks like an airport terminal. What does
    it have to do with the "land" and the environment?
    8. Wonders of Life needs life support. This is a pavillion worth saving and
    spending millions. It is a place about "us". There is so much to learn (oh did
    I use that awful word--learn--what EPCOT Center was supposed to be about).
    9. Can we please knock down the Oddyssy restaurant and possibly build at new
    Future World pavillion. It is an eyesore and hasn't been used in about 15 years
    as a functioning restaurant.
    10. Bring back the restaurants and coffee bars around the old Communicore
    buildings. They should be set up like cafes to enjoy people watching and the
    fountain.
    11. As for shopping, Epcot used to have the most unique shops. Now many just sell the touristy stuff. Bring back the uniqueness of each country. If you are going to continue to use characters in the park (unlike when it first opened), please make sure that only the characters dressed in the appropriate costume are displayed for that particular country.
    12. What happened to additional countries coming onboard. I have photos of the signs for Israel, Spain, and Russia. Australia would be excellent, but I was wondering if it would ever become part of Animal Kingdom. Countries please. The area where Africa was to go is horrible. It needs something besides the Coke Outpost.
    13. What ever happened to those interesting ride concepts for Italy's gondola ride and Japan's Mt. Fuji?
    14. Stop getting rid of the entertainment. Keep the frozen statue performers. Add more musical groups. Alot more is needed in the Future World area.
    15.Add the operating hours back into the schedule. It is ridiculous that there are different hours for the two sections. Remember, the International Gateway wasn't always there until Beach/Yacht and Boardwalk happened. Alot of guests now enter at this location.
    16. Kidcot locations should never take over a shop. Build more permanent areas instead.
    17. While Illuminations is WONDERFUL, why don't you add the lights to the rest of the countries that came later. Small point, but it's consistency that I want.
    18. Please build a raft ride at Canada to block the eyesore of a building that is Soarin.
    19. Get rid of the horrible buffet in Germany and bring back the menu.
    20. general observation: general paint and maintenance is much to ask for.
    21. Some sort of parade for the afternoon/dusk that doesn't have the word Tapestry in the title.
    22. If trams are no longer going to be used around the Boardwalk/Beach/Yacht areas, then take out the tram waiting area outside of the International Gateway.
    23. Theming: what ever happened to those great symbols for each of the Future World pavillions?
    24. Get a VP of Operations that actually wants to make Epcot a fun and exciting place to go instead of one that will pinch the last penny.
    25. Like I said in my previous post, change the name back to EPCOT Center and use the original type.

    I know some of my ideas won't work or would never be considered, but we can all dream...right Dreamfinder? Oh he isn't around anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • Herc
    replied
    Originally posted by WDW1974
    No, he's worse for one big reason -- all the crap he's doing to destroy what's left of Epcot goes under the radar.
    Well somebody better do something and fast as the 25th anniversary is closing in on two years soon.
    I'm working on my 25 items to work on at Epcot, like changing the name back to EPCOT Center like it should be and to use the futuristic lettering instead of what they use now. Guess that leaves me 24.

    Leave a comment:


  • AnimatronicsGuy
    replied
    my God I'm reading these posts and some of this stuff is dead on. i used to work at WDW back in the late 80's early 90's and have been a WDW fan all my life. it's really sad to see the stuff management has done in the past decade.

    i think what really stands out is that the penny pinching and gutless risk taking is at an all-time high. back when Walt's team designed WDW they were willing to spend money for the long term. take the monorails for example. no way in hell would Eisner or any of the park execs ever put in the monorail tracks if they were designing WDW from scratch today. they absolutely refuse to spend the money for it. just look at AK and MGM. it's parking lot and park, just like all the other theme parks across the world. the monorail systems around the hotels and parks are what made DL, MK, and EC unlike any other park around.

    and to hear how management cries about not having enough money really disgusts me. Eisner got paid a billion dollars over his tenure and let's not forget the millions it took to buy out Mike Ovitz's contract. do the math and you'll find out it's like selling 20 million one-day park tickets !!!

    something that really pisses me off is the whole Stitch's Escape ride. first, they replaced Alien Encounter with a worse ride and second, they are promoting it WAYYY too much. it's pathetic to see Stitch on the monorails. i mean, if you are riding one, taht means you're probably going to the Magic Kingdom anyways, so ehy promote it to that audience. they need to be promoting it outside the park to draw people inside, not reverse.
    also, placing decals on the monorails used to be a huge taboo. no f-ing way would any exec back then put anything on the trains for advertisement. it was considered way too tacky. but not anymore. it's almost as if WDW daily operations has become such a well oiled machine that the park managers have to think of things to do to make themselves look busy. even if it's a negative effect.

    in regards to Brad Rex. i think the one poster must be a buddy or family member or something. EPCOT is slowly being destroyed. it's turning into just another theme park. it used to have it's own character and theme. they need to change it's name,because it has nothing to with the original park anymore.

    and yeah, the service at the hotels are blending together much more. that i totally agree on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Eggz
    replied
    Originally posted by Jspider
    youknow I'm not sure project Gemeni was such a good idea from what I hear

    I mean I like alot of the ideas behind these newer rides but it seems like it was right on the verge of slicing through the last remaining things from old epcot

    isn't there something to be said for salvaging a few of the classic pieces and actualy fixing them up rather then discarding them? (like I said about a combination timetravel ride that doens''t support one facit of technology in praticular in order to hype a certain product)

    what else did project Gemeni entail exactly?
    I can understand being critcal of project Gemini, there are some things about it I didn't like either, but the overall idea--refurbishing all of Epcot at once so everything felt cohesive and unified and brought new life into the park--was brilliant and bold and good old-fashoned Disney thinking. Disney is rarely bold these days. Today, most Disney executives are timid little children afraid to make waves. Disneyland in '55 made waves, as did the Magic Kingdom at WDW and to a lesser extent EPCOT Center in '82 (but Walt's plan was much bolder). Disney doesn't do that anymore. Animal Kingdom came close, but budget cuts showed the timid nature that was developing whithin Disney at the time. Today Disney ideas are recycled versions of things that have not only been done before, but been done hundreds of times before.

    And it's always important to look at someone's motivations for doing something. Does anyone think Brad Rex killed Gemini because he wanted to preserve Epcot's histroy? No, the man is afraid to spend money on a long term investment which may not yield returns until after he has left his role, and therfore not get the credit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Eggz
    replied
    Originally posted by WDW1974
    No, he's worse for one big reason -- all the crap he's doing to destroy what's left of Epcot goes under the radar. Thanks to folks like Al Lutz, everyone knew who PP was very early in his Disney tenure.

    I guaran-damn-tee you that if 10 of the biggest Disney geeks in Orlando were sitting next to Brad at America Gardens, exactly none of them would know who he is.

    He can quietly do his damage, collect his six-figure salary and stock options, and barely anyone (even in the Disney community) has a clue who he is. There's a reason why he was picked to be Epcot VP and that was to pinch pennies. And on that level, he;s been a huge success. But I really think it's time he went and became a low level exec for some company like Buick, that no one cares about.
    very true!

    Leave a comment:


  • WDW1974
    replied
    As to Project Gemini, I'm not saying I liked/or agreed with everything proposed. But at least it had a COHESIVE VISION.

    This is so lacking in so much of WDW today. Epcot is a mishmash of new thrill rides, aging AA shows, aging movies, dining options, characters being shoehorned in to places they have NO business being like Restaurant Akershus. There is little, if any, regard to theme and place when these changes are made. Like the tacky wand ... OK, it was fine for the Millennium, but now it just looks tacky and awful above the shining sphere that represents Epcot.

    It's all over WDW ... Pleasure Island has NO cohesive theme or storyline anymore, it's acheaper, tackier version of CityWalk. The MK has become character land. And if yoy aren't a six-year-old, or traveling with one, well ... Disney sez 'screw you.' The resorts are starting to blend in with services being taken away so that the line between say the All Star Music, Coronado Springs and the Poly simply isn't what it was a decade ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • WDW1974
    replied
    Originally posted by TDLFAN
    Again...concidering that all 4 WDW main parks have the highest ONE-Day admission fee of any of the Disney Parks Worldwide (yes, more expensive than heavenly TDL and TDS)..seems to me the powers that be at WDW *can and should* afford to, not only offer Xmas overlay revisions at the MK, but also offer top caliber entertainment in their parades and castle shows, *and* offer the cleanest park experience out there. But that is not the case as those of us who go to TDR regularly can attest.
    No. WDW doesn't do those things anymore. What amazes me as a Disney lover, follower and stockholder is the fact that when the company was smaller and, one could argue, in a much, much, much more tenuous spot financially, Disney did all of the things you talk about as far as entertainment, new parades, seasonal offerings, parks so clean you could eat off the pavement, shops overflowing with top mercahndise etc ... but now, when the company is a multi-billion media behemoth, suddenly all it can ... no, that's not right, all that it chooses to offer is a very watered down Disney experience.

    Who wants to bet this topic never gets discussed at the giant media whoring/eating/drinking gathering at WDW next week? :devil:

    Leave a comment:


  • WDW1974
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Eggz
    ...and he closed the Sea Cabs using the drop in attendance after 9/11 as an excuse, and when attendance came back up, he did not re-open them. He got rid of the best General Manager at WDW (Dave V.) and then picked a new GM that wouldn't fight him on ops issues...and guess what...the park hours were shortened--something Dave V. refused to do. How can any Disney fan like this guy? He's just like Pressler!!!!
    No, he's worse for one big reason -- all the crap he's doing to destroy what's left of Epcot goes under the radar. Thanks to folks like Al Lutz, everyone knew who PP was very early in his Disney tenure.

    I guaran-damn-tee you that if 10 of the biggest Disney geeks in Orlando were sitting next to Brad at America Gardens, exactly none of them would know who he is.

    He can quietly do his damage, collect his six-figure salary and stock options, and barely anyone (even in the Disney community) has a clue who he is. There's a reason why he was picked to be Epcot VP and that was to pinch pennies. And on that level, he;s been a huge success. But I really think it's time he went and became a low level exec for some company like Buick, that no one cares about.

    Leave a comment:

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