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  • #61
    Re: Expect a MAJOR them park expansion in 2010.

    I have mixed reviews regarding this addition. While I welcome the addition of more hotels near the Disney property, I would rather have them be DISNEY hotels than anything else.

    As someone who finds it difficult to get a room at Disney and who would prefer staying there when we go over for the weekend I welcome the expansion. However, I want another Disney resort, not some Hojo that is going to lessen the Disney image as others have said.

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    • #62
      Re: Expect a MAJOR them park expansion in 2010.

      I think Disney probably realizes that there's a market for timeshare units that can house families with more than two kids. We have four, so when we take the whole crew we either have to get two rooms, rent a home-away-from-home unit, or stay off-site, none of which make me happy.

      Personally, I love staying in the MK area resorts, and I'd love to see an all-suites hotel built over there that can accomodate larger families. Owned by Disney, run by Disney, themed by Disney.

      Hey, a girl can dream.......
      Don't make me come in there!

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      • #63
        Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort

        Originally posted by WDW1974 View Post



        I absolutely don't believe Disney will sell the land but lease it as done with the Swan and Dolphin and Hotel Plaza properties.

        And, no, comparisons likely won't be kind to many of WDW's deluxe resorts. When I last checked, the Four Seasons didn't have thin white towels, Ivory Soap and unusable shampoo, rooms that weren't vacumed daily and weren't triple sheeted, basic Phillips TVs (except the recently renovated MK resorts, although as far as I know the GF still has TINY TVs), pools that are closed daily because of children (and adults) usng them as toilets, surly CMs who often don't have basic knowledge etc ...

        The price points will be whatever Four Seasons deems worthy, but I can't imagine why anyone would ever choose to stay at a WDW deluxe over a truly deluxe resort at WDW.

        No, this is Disney's 'answer' to Hilton placing a Waldorf Astoria at Bonnet Creek.

        The sad thing is Disney apparently has fallen so far that it doesn't believe, at least in Florida, that it can create a top-level resort.


        We'll just have to see ...

        I also agree that they likely will keep the land and collect $$ from 4S - the best of both world's - financially.

        The comparisons are going to be very rough on the delixe hotels the have --
        heck I stayed in a Hampton Inn near my daughters college one night last weekend, and I can tell you they have upgraded to the point where their pillows / duvets / mattresses are SO popular - they have a site where they sell them ! pillows $60-$75, feather duvets $130 - $150 and Mattresses $1500 range -- they were amazing ! And btw - with the local college rate - the cost was $68 a night including breakfast --

        I do believe it was a direct shot across the bow of Hilton - and on property no less.

        I do have 'some' issue with them not being Disney hotels - but heck neither are Dolphin / Swan - I have far more issue with the Western property expansion - doesn't sound exactly magical.
        " Disney Parks- far from perfect- but still a great shelter from the storm "

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        • #64
          Re: New Disney Luxury Resort Announced

          Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
          Can they just change the name of the place to "Walt Disney's World of Resort Hotels" and get it over it? The "De-Magification" of WDW continues.
          I'm not saying I like it either but I'm curious to know what you want for WDW? I see it as a normal cause of growth and expansion, granted why they couldn't keep it in the Disney way is beyond me but I would really like to know what you mean about "De-Magnification"?

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          • #65
            Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort

            Originally posted by dbm20th View Post
            Yesterday's news on both this and the Western Beltway is a dark day as far as I am concerned. Both plans are loaded with third party projects. Now I don't subscribe to Raidermatt's doomsday view, because I understand that WDW's expansion is just going to need 3rd party involvement from a cost perspective, but this is an awful lot to stomach. Personally, I don't care about either of these project, they don't appeal at all. But what I do care about is the obvious draining of funds to projects that I don't care about. That's unavoidable at this point
            the 3rd party involvement in a number of things does concern me, even something as small as the valet service being 'vendored' out is an issue. As someone who has spent all of his career in the corporate world, and the last 10 or so working through outsourcing issues for a major international corporation, I can firmly tell you that once the outsourcing starts, the bean counters wll not let it stop, and he quality and company feel etc erode fairly quickly. The major corp I work for is nowhere near the place it was 30 years ago when I started, and really nowhere near where it was a slight 10 years ago -- quality drops, lack of loyalty - etc.
            " Disney Parks- far from perfect- but still a great shelter from the storm "

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            • #66
              Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort

              Yesterday's news seems no different to me, than last year's news about acquiring Pixar. With that gesture, Disney openly admitted that "fixing" WDFA was beyond their capability, and brought in Team Pixar to do the job.

              Bringing Four Seasons onto WDW property feels about the same: "We're too screwed up to offer four-star service at WDW, so we're going to let somebody else do it."

              Oh yeah. It certainly takes an entire building of executives with six-figure compensation packages to come up with these brainstorms.

              "We make money the old-fashioned way. We outsource it."

              :sleep:
              "Dope smoking insects and reckless driving always work." -- Cousin Orville

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              • #67
                Re: Expect a MAJOR them park expansion in 2010.

                Originally posted by evilqueenrocks View Post
                But won't this cheapen the Disney image?

                Nope, because there is no Disney image to associate with the hotel. No themeing, no CM's, nothing. The only thing that makes it "Disney" is that technicaly it is on Disney property and on the back end Disney gets a cut of the cash

                Its just like when a company makes a brand name product - such as Kellogs Corn Flakes, and the same company also makes the store brand "flakes of corn". The cheap stuff does not say "made by kellogs" on it, so you dont associate the two, but the money still gets transfered

                -dave
                "I'm gonna build my own amusement park. But with gambling and hookers!" - Bender
                "You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." - Bullet Tooth Tony

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                • #68
                  Re: Expect a MAJOR them park expansion in 2010.

                  Just to clarify what I said on page 4 of this thread and to clear up some confusions:

                  1. Disney not only will have cheapo hotel rooms, they will also get the luxury 4-seasons resort. Whether the cheapo will hurt Disney's image is something we can debate for many years, but that is not the main issue I am looking at when I wrote my post on the 4th page.

                  Whether there will be cheap or luxury hotels, Disney is going to have thousands of new hotel rooms for sure. How they plan to fill up those rooms will be an interesting thing to think about.

                  2. What I said on Page 4, specifically, is that the thought of a 5th gate may be too optimistic. What will happen most likely is a MAJOR expansion to existing theme parks (such as Beastly Kingdom at DAK or others). So I am NOT saying they will definitely have a NEW park. And we should expect an announcement of an expansion by spring 2008.


                  Someone brought up a very good counter-argument that Disney is building cheap hotels in order to capture the budget travelers market which represents a portion of Disney's existing customer base. Therefore, building new cheap hotels is a response to current demand but NOT necessarily a way to generate new demand for new park offerings, so no significant expansions will follow. That sounds possible, and I think most Disney fans will pray that it won’t be the case because we will get stuck with so many hotel rooms and no new attractions.

                  However, my argument is that Disney is building both the high-end and the low end hotels which will have thousands of rooms. And to attract billionaire investors like the 4-seasons or the retail tenants to rent at Western Development, Disney most likely have thought about (and probably already presented) initial plans for a major theme park expansion to guarantee that there is demand for those hotel rooms/time share and that there is something big and new that people will definitely want to come and see.


                  I am the picture guy---A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words.

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                  • #69
                    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

                    I don't know. Reading through all the Disney stuff leads me to believe that the Burbank offices have become occupied by common real estate developers...rather than Disney visionaries.

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                    • #70
                      Re: New Disney Luxury Resort Announced

                      Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
                      Can they just change the name of the place to "Walt Disney's World of Resort Hotels" and get it over it? The "De-Magification" of WDW continues.
                      Tell me about it. You'd almost think Orlando was a tourist-driven city or something!

                      What's next on the laundry list of crazyness? Is Florida going to eliminate property tax by hitting tourists harder? Oh, wouldn't you know...

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

                        I totally agree with you Philip. I am sure we will see some announcments over the next two years or so about exciting Theme Park developents in the existing parks. Disney must have a plan on why they need all these hotel rooms and how on earth they are going to attract enough people to fill them.


                        With the recent Cruise line expansion and now this it seems to me that Disney as a company is really pushing forward, which I am sure no one can deny, even if you dont agree with it.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

                          I consider myself a budget traveler, and I usually stay at cheap motels outside of WDW, but I don't see a need for the Western expansion because what I want already exists. Disney probably won't provide it as inexpensively even if it is at a budget price compared to existing Disney resorts. I'd prefer that Disney invest money into the parks and give me a reason to visit more frequently. WDW's parks are great, but I feel I get more entertianment value out of the Disneyland Resort because WDW has downgraded its parks and entertainment so much since I first visited in the late 1980's.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

                            I find it very ironic that at the same time Disney is fighting Anaheim in Ca over low rent housing, they are building their own low rent hotels in Orlando. They don't want to cheapen Anaheim, but they don't mind doing the same in Orlando?

                            It all comes down to money. If they are the ones building it, OK. If they aren't, they don't like it.
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                            • #74
                              Re: New Disney Luxury Resort Announced

                              Originally posted by SummerInFL View Post
                              I'm not saying I like it either but I'm curious to know what you want for WDW? I see it as a normal cause of growth and expansion, granted why they couldn't keep it in the Disney way is beyond me but I would really like to know what you mean about "De-Magnification"?
                              I said "de-magification". But to answer your question...

                              Simple. I want greenery. I want what's left of the property to be replanted and regrown to what it was before the hurricanes hit it, since now a days..the greenery areas look badly kept and somewhat destroyed, with a million dead tree trunks. WDW does not need any more hotels on property, especially when they have several buildings in the Pop Century sitting there unfinished. At this point in time I would even take a DTD Part 2 just so those of us who go there and happen to be locals can enjoy something at WDW besides what's there already, since we don't use hotels to visit the resort. Plus, if they must litter the property with more hotels, then why not push the envelope and be visionaries intead of giving us the same old tired cavana concept in themed concepts??

                              And I like Mania's idea...

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

                                Isn't the point of WDW to take you away from the real world? These concepts bring more of the real world into WDW. I don't get that. Even Downtown Disney is kind of a real world environment within WDW, and the previous non-Disney hotels always felt out of place to me (the "official Disney hotels" near Downtown Disney and the Swan and Dolphin hotels). I don't mind staying off property, and it doesn't ruin the "magic" for me at all to do so, but seeing these un-Disney-like enterprises utilizing enormous pieces of property within WDW is most disheartening.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

                                  Originally posted by Opus1guy View Post
                                  I don't know. Reading through all the Disney stuff leads me to believe that the Burbank offices have become occupied by common real estate developers...rather than Disney visionaries.
                                  This has been the 'tude since the mid-90s when Eisner wanted build-out as fast as possible ... look at all the land WASTED on Celebration.

                                  Florida is just a giant real estate project. And anyone who believes WDW will be adding another theme park (or even should) is high on pixie dust! I wouldn't even count on major additions to the existing parks with the exception of DAK, which will be growing but NOT in a BK kind of fashion. There still are no solid plans for a new MK E-Ticket when the last one opened 15 years ago. That's pathetic.

                                  As to the comment about WDW starting to looks like Harbor and Katella, truer words were never spoken ... you can already see 7-11 and gas station signs from the front of DAK Lodge. You can spot the All Stars from US 192. Heck, there are low income apartments, mostly for cast, located directly behind the MK.

                                  With 30,000 acres, Disney has done a pisspoor job of managing their resources.

                                  These projects sounds like they could be a real disaster.

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                                  • #77
                                    Re: New Disney Luxury Resort Announced

                                    Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
                                    And I like Mania's idea...
                                    Which idea? The tax idea? Because they really have been looking at dumping property taxes for a sales tax boost. Or were you talking about my discussions about the Four Seasons and the lack of five-star accommodations?

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                                    • #78
                                      Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

                                      The tax one. I frankly could not care less about the 4 Seasons getting back together again. In fact, the news about this resort and possible other developments at WDW are probably the most uninteresting piece of "coming soon" news ever to come out of WDW's Team Disney offices. The project does not inspire me to look forward to WDW's future in the very least.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

                                        I'm not sure the Four Seasons are all alive ... but I hear Jersey Boys is great ... gonna see it in LA later this year!

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                                        • #80
                                          Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

                                          Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
                                          The tax one. I frankly could not care less about the 4 Seasons getting back together again. In fact, the news about this resort and possible other developments at WDW are probably the most uninteresting piece of "coming soon" news ever to come out of WDW's Team Disney offices. The project does not inspire me to look forward to WDW's future in the very least.
                                          Agreed. Only reason it's interesting is to make me nervous for the future of the resort.
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