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  • MickeyMania
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    Originally posted by BALASADA View Post
    You keep forgetting the big picture. Remember way back when Walt tried to outsource jobs in Animation he relized he neede inside people to do the job right. Also he bought in Florida to create a world away from the outside area. McDonalds at Downtown Disney and by Blizzard Beach I can see but not in EPCOT. Also more layoffs are coming .
    While it's well documented that Walt didn't like all the commercialism outside the gates of Disneyland, there was a lot of commercialism inside Disneyland he didn't have any problem with. Remember Casa de Fritos? There was a big statue of the corn chip mascot who also doubled as a vending machine for the product. That's far more blatant marketing than what's going on at the McDonalds in Epcot.

    Leave a comment:


  • BALASADA
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    Originally posted by MickeyMania View Post
    Before you say that Walt is spinning somewhere, keep in mind that almost everything in Disneyland had a corporate sponsor. Keep in mind Walt built three of his biggest attractions on third-party company funds for the Worlds Fair AND got to keep them as his own showpieces after the companies were done using them. Keep in mind Walt planned the original EPCOT as a showpiece of corporate America's emerging technology. Did you really think WED was going to build an entire domed city with their own resources?


    Walt struck plenty of deals with third parties, he just got a lot more out of them then everyone else has. Which is to be expected, since selling things was his greatest ability and how he managed to convince everyone to take his big risks.

    Walt could have sold sand to that Saudi prince if he was around.
    Also Walkt and Ray Croc knew each other well but he didn't have McDonalds in Walt Disney World.

    Leave a comment:


  • BALASADA
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    Originally posted by MickeyMania View Post
    Before you say that Walt is spinning somewhere, keep in mind that almost everything in Disneyland had a corporate sponsor. Keep in mind Walt built three of his biggest attractions on third-party company funds for the Worlds Fair AND got to keep them as his own showpieces after the companies were done using them. Keep in mind Walt planned the original EPCOT as a showpiece of corporate America's emerging technology. Did you really think WED was going to build an entire domed city with their own resources?


    Walt struck plenty of deals with third parties, he just got a lot more out of them then everyone else has. Which is to be expected, since selling things was his greatest ability and how he managed to convince everyone to take his big risks.

    Walt could have sold sand to that Saudi prince if he was around.
    You keep forgetting the big picture. Remember way back when Walt tried to outsource jobs in Animation he relized he neede inside people to do the job right. Also he bought in Florida to create a world away from the outside area. McDonalds at Downtown Disney and by Blizzard Beach I can see but not in EPCOT. Also more layoffs are coming .

    Leave a comment:


  • MickeyMania
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    Originally posted by BALASADA View Post
    You are forgetting the best part about the deals. First the 4 seasons is partly owned by the Shiek who bailed out Euro Disney twice so he was owed something in return and the best is that the other part owner is BILL GATES who If I am not mistaken has a long running feud with Steve Jobs. Wonder how he feels about RCID de-annexing land back to Orange County and selling it right to his rival. Somewhere Walt is fuming and wanting to come back and take back his WDW world he envisioned. Plus Walt is still asking who put McDonalds in EPCOT.
    Before you say that Walt is spinning somewhere, keep in mind that almost everything in Disneyland had a corporate sponsor. Keep in mind Walt built three of his biggest attractions on third-party company funds for the Worlds Fair AND got to keep them as his own showpieces after the companies were done using them. Keep in mind Walt planned the original EPCOT as a showpiece of corporate America's emerging technology. Did you really think WED was going to build an entire domed city with their own resources?


    Walt struck plenty of deals with third parties, he just got a lot more out of them then everyone else has. Which is to be expected, since selling things was his greatest ability and how he managed to convince everyone to take his big risks.

    Walt could have sold sand to that Saudi prince if he was around.

    Leave a comment:


  • BALASADA
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    You are forgetting the best part about the deals. First the 4 seasons is partly owned by the Shiek who bailed out Euro Disney twice so he was owed something in return and the best is that the other part owner is BILL GATES who If I am not mistaken has a long running feud with Steve Jobs. Wonder how he feels about RCID de-annexing land back to Orange County and selling it right to his rival. Somewhere Walt is fuming and wanting to come back and take back his WDW world he envisioned. Plus Walt is still asking who put McDonalds in EPCOT. Also the reason why they are going with 3rd party companies is they can't fill the jobs they have here right now. If anyone at WDW gets a chance drive by the Contemporary Resort and look at the gaping hole they just did by tearing down the North Wing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Opus1guy
    replied
    Re: Expect a MAJOR them park expansion in 2010.

    Originally posted by NickCharles View Post
    Exactly what Walt Disney wanted to avoid by building WDW!!!
    And when WDW was being developed, Disney took great pains to try to convince surrounding communities and municipalities to better control via zoning and building codes...development in their towns, so they wouldn't end up with the same urban blight that surrounded the immediate Disneyland area.

    Disney even flew many of the various civic leader out to California on fact-finding junkets, and pointed to Harbor and Katella and basically said, "There! Look at that. Now don't let that happen to your communities."

    It didn't help. The draw of the almighty quick and dirty dollar over any sort of controlled and long-range development plan won out almost without exception. I-192...Vineyard Ave...all around Disney, makes Harbor Blvd look pretty darn good these days.

    Leave a comment:


  • NickCharles
    replied
    Re: Expect a MAJOR them park expansion in 2010.

    Originally posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Wow. Looks like it's to start getting cramped at WDW. It won't be too long and things will start to look like Harbor and Katella...
    Exactly what Walt Disney wanted to avoid by building WDW!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • NickCharles
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort

    Originally posted by Peterwhite171 View Post
    More and more places to stay in but where are the places to play? Where are the new water Parks and a new park?

    The last thing WDW needs is a new theme park or water park. In fact, the last thing WDW need is more development. Good God, they can't even keep up with what they have now.

    Leave a comment:


  • MickeyMania
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    Dubai Land has twice as much land as WDW, but wake me up when they actually cover it all with facilities. It's easy to make something really huge when your backer is the government ruler.

    Whether things at Dubai will actually be worth your time or will simply be the world's largest carnival, the jury is still out. Whether they'll have the charm, history, and personality of Disney, unlikely.

    And the term "seven-star hotel" is simply meaningless. It's a marketing phrase started by Dubai when opening the Burj hotel. There's no denying that Burj has something special to offer, but to get a five-star rating is pretty spectacular in and of itself. It's an "ours goes up to 11" sort of thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Airamerica
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    I'm not sure if everyone posting on here is from the U.S. but outside North America and especially over in the UK (where I am most of the time) Disney World is coming under massive pressure from Dubai Land, due to open in Dubai in a couple of years.

    This park is going to be twice the size of DW in Florida and have a mix of '7 star' luxury accommodation and budget rooms.

    I accept that Dubai Land will never have the reputation or the history that accompanies the Disney brand, but Dubai itself is becoming a major tourist destination and they are going after the european market in a very big way.

    Keep in mind that Florida is the biggest long-haul tourist destination for europeans and the biggest number of those visitors are from the UK.

    Personally, I've visited DW twice or three times a year for the last 20 years, so I feel very sentimental about the entire resort, especially Eagle Pines and Osprey Ridge. I also like the the south west corner of Bay Lake, just along from the Fort Wilderness boat loading peir, which is dense forest at the moment and will likely be lost in the 4 Seasons development...

    However, unless the two new resorts are built, DW will be way behind it's international competition and with falling park attendances the entire place is likely to degenerate even more!

    I think this is the right decision but I also agree the the existing parks MUST be improved and in most cases extended - new parks are not required, just build on the ones already there.

    Leave a comment:


  • yoyoflamingo
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
    The tax one. I frankly could not care less about the 4 Seasons getting back together again. In fact, the news about this resort and possible other developments at WDW are probably the most uninteresting piece of "coming soon" news ever to come out of WDW's Team Disney offices. The project does not inspire me to look forward to WDW's future in the very least.
    Agreed. Only reason it's interesting is to make me nervous for the future of the resort.

    Leave a comment:


  • WDW1974
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    I'm not sure the Four Seasons are all alive ... but I hear Jersey Boys is great ... gonna see it in LA later this year!

    Leave a comment:


  • TDLFAN
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    The tax one. I frankly could not care less about the 4 Seasons getting back together again. In fact, the news about this resort and possible other developments at WDW are probably the most uninteresting piece of "coming soon" news ever to come out of WDW's Team Disney offices. The project does not inspire me to look forward to WDW's future in the very least.

    Leave a comment:


  • MickeyMania
    replied
    Re: New Disney Luxury Resort Announced

    Originally posted by TDLFAN View Post
    And I like Mania's idea...
    Which idea? The tax idea? Because they really have been looking at dumping property taxes for a sales tax boost. Or were you talking about my discussions about the Four Seasons and the lack of five-star accommodations?

    Leave a comment:


  • WDW1974
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    Originally posted by Opus1guy View Post
    I don't know. Reading through all the Disney stuff leads me to believe that the Burbank offices have become occupied by common real estate developers...rather than Disney visionaries.
    This has been the 'tude since the mid-90s when Eisner wanted build-out as fast as possible ... look at all the land WASTED on Celebration.

    Florida is just a giant real estate project. And anyone who believes WDW will be adding another theme park (or even should) is high on pixie dust! I wouldn't even count on major additions to the existing parks with the exception of DAK, which will be growing but NOT in a BK kind of fashion. There still are no solid plans for a new MK E-Ticket when the last one opened 15 years ago. That's pathetic.

    As to the comment about WDW starting to looks like Harbor and Katella, truer words were never spoken ... you can already see 7-11 and gas station signs from the front of DAK Lodge. You can spot the All Stars from US 192. Heck, there are low income apartments, mostly for cast, located directly behind the MK.

    With 30,000 acres, Disney has done a pisspoor job of managing their resources.

    These projects sounds like they could be a real disaster.

    Leave a comment:


  • gardener14
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    Isn't the point of WDW to take you away from the real world? These concepts bring more of the real world into WDW. I don't get that. Even Downtown Disney is kind of a real world environment within WDW, and the previous non-Disney hotels always felt out of place to me (the "official Disney hotels" near Downtown Disney and the Swan and Dolphin hotels). I don't mind staying off property, and it doesn't ruin the "magic" for me at all to do so, but seeing these un-Disney-like enterprises utilizing enormous pieces of property within WDW is most disheartening.

    Leave a comment:


  • TDLFAN
    replied
    Re: New Disney Luxury Resort Announced

    Originally posted by SummerInFL View Post
    I'm not saying I like it either but I'm curious to know what you want for WDW? I see it as a normal cause of growth and expansion, granted why they couldn't keep it in the Disney way is beyond me but I would really like to know what you mean about "De-Magnification"?
    I said "de-magification". But to answer your question...

    Simple. I want greenery. I want what's left of the property to be replanted and regrown to what it was before the hurricanes hit it, since now a days..the greenery areas look badly kept and somewhat destroyed, with a million dead tree trunks. WDW does not need any more hotels on property, especially when they have several buildings in the Pop Century sitting there unfinished. At this point in time I would even take a DTD Part 2 just so those of us who go there and happen to be locals can enjoy something at WDW besides what's there already, since we don't use hotels to visit the resort. Plus, if they must litter the property with more hotels, then why not push the envelope and be visionaries intead of giving us the same old tired cavana concept in themed concepts??

    And I like Mania's idea...

    Leave a comment:


  • Dustysage
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    I find it very ironic that at the same time Disney is fighting Anaheim in Ca over low rent housing, they are building their own low rent hotels in Orlando. They don't want to cheapen Anaheim, but they don't mind doing the same in Orlando?

    It all comes down to money. If they are the ones building it, OK. If they aren't, they don't like it.

    Leave a comment:


  • gardener14
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    I consider myself a budget traveler, and I usually stay at cheap motels outside of WDW, but I don't see a need for the Western expansion because what I want already exists. Disney probably won't provide it as inexpensively even if it is at a budget price compared to existing Disney resorts. I'd prefer that Disney invest money into the parks and give me a reason to visit more frequently. WDW's parks are great, but I feel I get more entertianment value out of the Disneyland Resort because WDW has downgraded its parks and entertainment so much since I first visited in the late 1980's.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peterwhite171
    replied
    Re: Four Seasons to Anchor New Disney Luxury Resort - (Merged Threads)

    I totally agree with you Philip. I am sure we will see some announcments over the next two years or so about exciting Theme Park developents in the existing parks. Disney must have a plan on why they need all these hotel rooms and how on earth they are going to attract enough people to fill them.


    With the recent Cruise line expansion and now this it seems to me that Disney as a company is really pushing forward, which I am sure no one can deny, even if you dont agree with it.

    Leave a comment:

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