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So if Avatar 2 flops...

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  • So if Avatar 2 flops...

    So Pandora is opening this Summer, around 7 years after the release of Avatar- enough so the franchise is no longer fresh in guests' minds, and Avatar 2 is not coming until 2018, which, if a hit, could save the new land. But what if Avatar 2 flops? My prediction is that Pandora will be completely rethemed to something else, ala Frozen in World Showcase at a bigger scale. I think that the obvious fit would be Polynesia/Moana, with the movie having also magical bioluminescent segments. What do you think would happen?

  • #2
    I think that Disney's so invested into the land that they'll keep it even if Avatar 2 flops or doesn't get released (since that movie's had so many setbacks already). It would be odd to have a land based on an old movie that didn't spawn a full franchise, but like I said they've invested so much into it I expect it to stay for a while. After all, Universal Studios Hollywood still has a Waterworld show.
    That said, I would like to see an area or a ride themed to that awesome bioluminescent segment of Moana.

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    • #3
      It is indeed a bit of a gamble for Disney especially considering Avatar is not a Disney-owned franchise. They have no control over how Avatar 2 (or it's possible sequels) turns out. So yes, they have made a huge investment in something that could conceivably go belly up on them while they are helpless to do anything about it.

      Having said that, in the short-term Avatar 2 will undoubtedly be a financial success. In a sense, the film is almost bulletproof. There is a vast built-in audience for the film due to the original's overwhelming popularity. Even if critics and fans savage the film more viciously than a new Pauly Shore movie, Avatar 2 will make enough money before word gets around. So in the short-term, Avatar 2 could be bad and still be a "hit", but in the long-term if it is bad further films could be canceled and Disney is stuck with Pandora.

      I do, however, agree that Disney has a way out as has been mentioned by converting Pandora into a Moana themed area...after waiting an appropriate mourning period.

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      • #4
        The success (or lack thereof) of Pandora at Animal Kingdom will have nothing to do with Avatar 2's popularity. It will be successful if the the immersion and the rides are good. Splash Mountain is based on "Song of the South" that came out decades before and then went into the vault forever. A good attraction is a good attraction....

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Figment56 View Post
          The success (or lack thereof) of Pandora at Animal Kingdom will have nothing to do with Avatar 2's popularity. It will be successful if the the immersion and the rides are good. Splash Mountain is based on "Song of the South" that came out decades before and then went into the vault forever. A good attraction is a good attraction....
          I disagree given that Splash Mountain is a single attraction which is not relied upon to push merchandise (the reason for which Pooh replaced a GREAT attraction next door was given a whole merchandise store). Pandora, on the other hand, is a huge land... and I see very few people interested in any Pandora or Avatar merchandise. Compare to the monster franchises that are Harry Potter, Star Wars, and even with the big popularity of Cars. I really hope that this land is replaced with dignity instead of seeing Jack Skellington merchandise all over the racks at the shops.

          And C. Andrew Nelson, I doubt there will be a mourning period if Pandora were to close. The only two mourning would be James Cameron and that Imagineer with the earrings (I have gained a particular antipathy against him given that he announced both Pandora and Guardians of the Galaxy).

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Figment56 View Post
            The success (or lack thereof) of Pandora at Animal Kingdom will have nothing to do with Avatar 2's popularity. It will be successful if the the immersion and the rides are good. Splash Mountain is based on "Song of the South" that came out decades before and then went into the vault forever. A good attraction is a good attraction....
            I don't think you can compare the two as Pandora is a $500 million park expansion, notable for its unique IP acquisition and with the original intent of being a "Potter killer".

            Imo, Pandora is going to be one of the great terrible mistakes in Disney Park history. The audience for Avatar no longer exists and personally I doubt it will come back upon the release of a sequel. AK could have gotten so much better.
            WDW: March 2004, August 2005, Summer 2006, March 2012, July 2013, December 2013/January 2014
            DL: April 2011, December 2011, December 2012/January 2013, June 2014, December 2016, May 2017
            HKDL: July 2016

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Commander Corn View Post

              I don't think you can compare the two as Pandora is a $500 million park expansion, notable for its unique IP acquisition and with the original intent of being a "Potter killer".

              Imo, Pandora is going to be one of the great terrible mistakes in Disney Park history. The audience for Avatar no longer AK could have gotten so much better.
              Which I see as the whole area becoming Polynesia/Hawaii, including Moana Raft Ride, lots of Lilo and Stich, and a Soarin' over the Pacific... (Redundant, but honestly how innovative is Soarin' on a Banshee?")

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mtlchuck View Post
                So Pandora is opening this Summer, around 7 years after the release of Avatar- enough so the franchise is no longer fresh in guests' minds, and Avatar 2 is not coming until 2018, which, if a hit, could save the new land. But what if Avatar 2 flops? My prediction is that Pandora will be completely rethemed to something else, ala Frozen in World Showcase at a bigger scale. I think that the obvious fit would be Polynesia/Moana, with the movie having also magical bioluminescent segments. What do you think would happen?
                I personally don't think Avatarland will need to be "saved". It appears that the focus of the land will be the world of Avatar and not the story or characters from the film, which I think will help separate if from the success or failure of the franchise. Based on what has been shown so far it looks like it's going to be an extremely impressive land. I don't think it will get the huge initial crowds like Potter did at Uni, but I think once work of mouth spreads on it, it will be a must see for a lot of guests. I think the chances if it being re-themed in the foreseeable future are almost zero.
                Last edited by danlb_2000; 01-03-2017, 02:55 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by danlb_2000 View Post

                  I personally don't think Avatarland will need to be "saved". It appears that the focus of the land will be the world of Avatar and not the story or characters from the film, which I think will help separate if from the success or failure of the franchise. Based on what has been shown so far it looks like it's going to be an extremely impressive land. I don't think it will get the huge initial crowds like Potter did at Uni, but I think once work of mouth spreads on it, it will be a must see for a lot of guests. I think the chances if it being re-themed in the foreseeable future are almost zero.


                  Then again, this is what we thought of TOT at DCA, then a more profitable franchise came along.

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                  • #10
                    If the land turns out to be as breathtaking and immersive as it has the potential to be, then I don't think it will matter whether Avatar still has a strong audience or whether Avatar 2 is a flop. The assumption that the land will fail if such conditions exist is predicated on the idea that people are incapable of enjoying something based on source material they are relatively unfamiliar with, and that's obviously untrue. Some of Disney's most successful attractions are entirely original or based on movies that flopped, obscure source material, or even on movies that the general public sees as distasteful. Yeah, positive brand recognition helps, but it's certainly not doomed without it.

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                    • #11
                      Ultimately it won't matter. If the land is awesome people will come. As others have pointed out, Splash Mountain is awesome and yet Disney denies that the movie Song of the South ever even existed.
                      Disneyland Cast Member
                      Outdoor Vending
                      1996 - 1999

                      My interview with MiceAge about working at Disneyland:

                      http://micechat.com/blogs/mouth-of-t...ding-crew.html

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                      • #12
                        It does seem like Pandora will live or die on its own at this point. I mean, the land is barely even associated with the film or futire films in the advertising. Yes, they reference the actual movie and James Cameron in their promotional material, but they don't appear to be treating Avatar like an active franchise. Which is probably for the best, honestly. The second movie is scheduled for December 2018 and they haven't even started pre-production or finalized a script (I believe). That's why many assume the Han Solo movie will take its release date. So I don't think anyone's holding their breath. If the land is successful then no one will care if they ever make another Avatar movie. It'll just be a popular Disney theme park land based off an IP that may eventually fade away.

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                        • #13
                          I personally, really dislike the Avatar movie and have no desire to see the second, but the world of that movie is incredibly interesting and beautiful to me, so based on what I saw at D23 about it, I am personally excited for it. Like Mousepool said, it seems like they are solely basing it on the world of the movie and not so much the story and to that end, I think that since Disney is offering a world you don't see anywhere else, not to mention that the bioluminescence will make it a ride with the potential to be one you want to try once in the day and once at night, I believe it will be a successful ride that no one needs to like Avatar to enjoy. It reminds me of the original Disney rides that had no source material. Pirates, and Haunted Mansion are both beloved rides because they offer you a unique experience through a fantasy world and inspire wonder, and if Pandora does that, which if the stuff we have seen so far is as awesome as they have made it seem, it looks like it will, then I think it will do great.

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                          • #14
                            I have no desire to see the movie again but I am really excited to see this land. The quality speaks for itself, all that's left is to see if the rides are amazing enough to make people want to come back again & again. People will stand by a quality attraction even if it's not technically as popular outside the park ( Mr. Toad, Splash, ToT, many will agree Cars franchise is not as beloved as the rest of Pixar's movies).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Commander Corn View Post

                              I don't think you can compare the two as Pandora is a $500 million park expansion, notable for its unique IP acquisition and with the original intent of being a "Potter killer".

                              Imo, Pandora is going to be one of the great terrible mistakes in Disney Park history. The audience for Avatar no longer exists and personally I doubt it will come back upon the release of a sequel. AK could have gotten so much better.
                              I've questioned the decision of having anything Avatar related since day one. The movie was visually interesting but I still maintain that James Cameron is a hack writer and that the movie was too gimmicky. However, I do believe that an Avatar land could survive the reputation of the original movie. The previews look amazing and the land itself is not bound to the story of the movie.

                              That being said, if Avatar 2 flops and JC decides to abandon the subsequent sequels then it might be a different story...

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