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Pirates of the Caribbean closing April 23 to remove the auction scene

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  • #21
    Originally posted by skoolpsyk View Post

    I think most parents would say, "look at those bad pirates, what should we do if they came to our town like that?"
    I think most parents wouldn't say a thing, except, "That was fun! What do you guys want to ride next?"


    It's an amusement park ride--not a "teaching moment" experience. Sheesh.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by skoolpsyk View Post

      umm, that's what the BAD people are doing. Unless you're telling the kids that's the way everyone acts and is supposed act, in which case...wow.

      I think most parents would say, "look at those bad pirates, what should we do if they came to our town like that?"

      Originally posted by Professortango View Post

      But we're supposed to like the pirates. They are supposed to be fun and cartoony, not violent and scary. This has always been the case.
      Exactly. From the beginning the Pirates were never the "bad guys". They were lovable rouges whose mommies never really loved them. Disney then double downed on this premise with the new POTC movies branding the likes of Jack Sparrow as a Pirate, but a good man with some morality. Real pirates might have been terrible people, but Disney pirates are simply miss-understood scamps.



      I open a toy, review it and take mediocore pictures. Read all about it HERE!

      Originally posted by VintageMouse;n8463446

      You know best :-)

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Right Down Broadway View Post
        I think most parents wouldn't say a thing, except, "That was fun! What do you guys want to ride next?"


        It's an amusement park ride--not a "teaching moment" experience. Sheesh.
        It could be a teaching moment if the kids were as traumatized as some seem to indicate they are...

        Most parents don't say anything because they don't need to say anything..kids know these cartoony pirates are being bad and know that it's not ok to act badly..

        as many have pointed out they act bad all over the ride, why is it just this one scene that is suddenly a template on how to behave in society?


        I see this thread is being moved so I won't be following it; have fun!
        L + L = R

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        • #24
          Originally posted by skoolpsyk View Post

          It could be a teaching moment if the kids were as traumatized as some seem to indicate they are...

          Most parents don't say anything because they don't need to say anything..kids know these cartoony pirates are being bad and know that it's not ok to act badly..

          as many have pointed out they act bad all over the ride, why is it just this one scene that is suddenly a template on how to behave in society?


          I see this thread is being moved so I won't be following it; have fun!
          Because its pretty obvious to our society that drowning mayors and burning down towns is bad. However, our society seems to have confusion over treating women as objects to be won after a victory.
          Women, they make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by shazang View Post

            How dare they alter references to sexual violence against women! The only thing I liked about Pirates was the implication of !
            So, I guess you're okay with the other violence in the ride? Oh, i got it. As long as it's not towards a woman.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by rockabillylaker View Post

              So, I guess you're okay with the other violence in the ride? Oh, i got it. As long as it's not towards a woman.
              Can't speak for anyone else, but yeah, I am fine with the other violence in the ride, because I am capable of considering things from a nuanced perspective and understand that action violence between two parties capable of defending themselves (<------that right there is a critical factor in this discussion), which has been romanticized throughout history and has made for some of its most exciting stories, is not the same thing as the heinous act of human trafficking, which intentionally targets a vulnerable segment of the population to sell them for profit and for the sexual gratification of others at the expense of the victim's well-being. I don't get what is so hard to grasp about this.

              Two people firing guns at each other = Fine.
              Swordfights = Fine.
              Cannon battles = Fine.

              A scene depicting a pirate shooting a pig or dog in the back of the head execution style for fun = Not fine.
              A pirate terrorizing a child = Not fine.
              A scene featuring actual, literal human trafficking? Maybe not as egregious as the other two in the way it is actually presented on the ride itself, but I can see why it would make some people uncomfortable given the nature of human trafficking.

              If you look at each of these scenarios and tell me you don't see the difference, I can only assume it's because you don't WANT to see the difference.
              Warriors, Giants, Sharks, Texans fan from the Bay Area.
              Annual visitor to Disneyland ('99, '04-08, '11-present)
              So so hyphy.

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              • #27
                If you can't tell the difference between being sexually assaulted, something many people have experienced and do not want to re-experience, and having your town sacked by 18th century pirates, something no living person has experienced, then you've got some serious problems.

                I have to ask: can anyone here explain 1) what "PC culture" is, and 2) why it's bad?

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by LetsGoDubs View Post

                  Can't speak for anyone else, but yeah, I am fine with the other violence in the ride, because I am capable of considering things from a nuanced perspective and understand that action violence between two parties capable of defending themselves (<------that right there is a critical factor in this discussion), which has been romanticized throughout history and has made for some of its most exciting stories, is not the same thing as the heinous act of human trafficking, which intentionally targets a vulnerable segment of the population to sell them for profit and for the sexual gratification of others at the expense of the victim's well-being. I don't get what is so hard to grasp about this.

                  Two people firing guns at each other = Fine.
                  Swordfights = Fine.
                  Cannon battles = Fine.

                  A scene depicting a pirate shooting a pig or dog in the back of the head execution style for fun = Not fine.
                  A pirate terrorizing a child = Not fine.
                  A scene featuring actual, literal human trafficking? Maybe not as egregious as the other two in the way it is actually presented on the ride itself, but I can see why it would make some people uncomfortable given the nature of human trafficking.

                  If you look at each of these scenarios and tell me you don't see the difference, I can only assume it's because you don't WANT to see the difference.
                  Well said.

                  I would also add that if the women were swapped out for African Slaves, something that would have been historically accurate, would this change be as contentious?
                  I open a toy, review it and take mediocore pictures. Read all about it HERE!

                  Originally posted by VintageMouse;n8463446

                  You know best :-)

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    It's crazy that Disney by doing this is actually IGNORING something that did historically happen. IMO if this scene offends someone, removing it is even more offensive as it brushes what happened in this time aside.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      *Running away from this argument because I can see both sides, which means both sides will hate me*
                      Dead Mice Tell No Tails!

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by WaltDisney'sAlec View Post



                        How much is the MaxPass for this ride? I don't want to get on it but I'm running out of options!
                        You better get it quick rumor is they are raising the prices again soon. Hehe

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I'm curious as to how omitting/revising this scene ruins the ride. Let's be honest, I suspect that for many people it has less to do with caring about PotC's history and heritage, and more to do with the idea that this change means that "liberal PC Culture" (whatever that is) would get a mark in the win column, and that bothers some people. They see it as an assault on them personally, and that there's some kind of cultural battle going on that they don't want to be on the losing side of.

                          I see the usual hysterics over slippery slopes, many false equivalences being drawn, and plenty of soapboxing about how people are so easily offended now and they need to toughen up and nobody can take a joke anymore and blah, blah, blah....These arguments usually come from people who have never experienced any sort of objectification or discrimination ever in their lives, and if they have it's so pervasive that they've become desensitized to it. You hear similar rationalizations used to defend Confederate monuments. Sexism is sexism...Whether it's lighthearted and sanitized or not. Yes, the ride itself is a product of it's time and tries to replicate a specific period in history with a goofy cartoon veneer over it, but here in the 21st century more and more women have had enough of being placed beneath men on the ladder of social worth. Maybe it's time to either help them up, or get out of the way.

                          I find the awkward shoehorning of Johnny Depp into the ride far more offensive....from an aesthetic and artistic standpoint at least.
                          "Hang on to them hats 'n glasses, cuz this here's the wildest ride in the wilderness!"

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            [QUOTE=LetsGoDubs;n8550727]

                            Can't speak for anyone else
                            ,

                            But the majority does. And the majority is not offended by it.

                            but yeah, I am fine with the other violence in the ride, because I am capable of considering things from a nuanced perspective and understand that action violence between two parties capable of defending themselves
                            uhhh....what?! There's a torture scene in this ride. You okay with that I take it? You talk nuances but, only describe the ones that fit your virtue signaling. You can assume there are other women and children being robbed. Hell, it's stated in the lyrics. There are no victimless crimes in this ride.

                            (<------that right there is a critical factor in this discussion), which has been romanticized throughout history and has made for some of its most exciting stories, is not the same thing as the heinous act of human trafficking, which intentionally targets a vulnerable segment of the population to sell them for profit and for the sexual gratification of others at the expense of the victim's well-being. I don't get what is so hard to grasp about this.
                            It's hard to grasp because you manage to pull all of that out of your rear when sex is not even implied in that scene.

                            Two people firing guns at each other = Fine.
                            Swordfights = Fine.
                            Cannon battles = Fine.
                            Again....uhhhh what?


                            A scene featuring actual, literal human trafficking? Maybe not as egregious as the other two in the way it is actually presented on the ride itself, but I can see why it would make some people uncomfortable given the nature of human trafficking.
                            And there's literal human torture with a helpless victim.

                            If you look at each of these scenarios and tell me you don't see the difference, I can only assume it's because you don't WANT to see the difference.
                            Nope. There's no difference. It's a ride. It's entertaining and funny. You only want to pick and choose so that it conveniently fits your narrative.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by shazang View Post
                              If you can't tell the difference between being sexually assaulted, something many people have experienced and do not want to re-experience, and having your town sacked by 18th century pirates, something no living person has experienced, then you've got some serious problems.
                              no but, people have been robbed murdered and tortured. Why are we picking and choose what can be considered offensive?

                              I have to ask: can anyone here explain 1) what "PC culture" is, and 2) why it's bad?
                              Because it teaches everyone to think and believe that everything is offensive at the expense of honesty. We no longer can have conversations with each other if we're going to constantly use euphemisms in our everyday language. Those who are for it, want to believe that life is full of kittens and rainbows and there are no harsh realities.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                but here in the 21st century more and more women have had enough of being placed beneath men on the ladder of social worth. Maybe it's time to either help them up, or get out of the way.
                                Not sure what century you're living in but, women are doing just fine.


                                Comment


                                • #36


                                  Originally posted by BiggestDisneyFan View Post
                                  *Running away from this argument because I can see both sides, which means both sides will hate me*
                                  NA- I not going to hate........I am in same boat......I can see both sides !

                                  Another area . about the Pirates of the Caribbean
                                  I feel DISNEY , have been done over kill ......mostly because the movie's - and Pirates , has become a fad .....
                                  Which Now it dying out .....and the Attraction is not the same...

                                  TRUTH......I getting older and what was funny in the past , is nor longer funny to me now
                                  But one does have to ask ,what going on in Burbank........
                                  I think options has run out !
                                  Last edited by Eagleman; 03-13-2018, 03:46 PM.
                                  Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by rockabillylaker View Post

                                    Not sure what century you're living in but, women are doing just fine.

                                    Are they really?

                                    Rampant sexual misconduct, continued sexual discrimination and the report that a Saudi Woman was given 24 months in jail for removing her head scarf; yeah, no issues there...
                                    Last edited by Meville; 03-13-2018, 04:51 PM.
                                    I open a toy, review it and take mediocore pictures. Read all about it HERE!

                                    Originally posted by VintageMouse;n8463446

                                    You know best :-)

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Meville View Post

                                      Are they really?

                                      Rampant sexual misconduct, continued sexual discrimination and the repost that a Saudi Woman was given 24 months in jail for removing her head scarf; yeah, no issues there...
                                      My apologies. I thought we were referring to women in the US. I agree 100% that women in radical Muslim cultures are some of the most oppressed people on Earth.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        But women in the US are still victims of sexual assault, discrimination and objectification on a daily basis. The Saudi case is an example of terrible state sponsored discrimination, but what's worse is that many people don't realize that this kind of stuff happens under the radar in the western world all the time.

                                        Quick example: My Wife and I were crossing the street of a busy intersection one hot summer evening and a young man felt that it was ok to cat call and otherwise proposition my wife from inside his truck threw the window as we passed by. I was incensed and made a few propsistions myself, but my wife pleaded with me to let it go as it happens to her ALL THE TIME and she's just used to it.

                                        Am I suggesting that the auction scene was to blame? No. Am I suggesting that anyone who is against this change is a mysoginist? No. What I am saying is that there is a cultural norm for the objectification of women that continues to re-enforce this type behaviour and over time we need to work to change it for the well being of our daughters so they too don't need to eventually just tune it out and for our sons so they can stop doing it.
                                        I open a toy, review it and take mediocore pictures. Read all about it HERE!

                                        Originally posted by VintageMouse;n8463446

                                        You know best :-)

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Couple more things I'd like to add/remark upon:

                                          1) Though we're mostly talking about women here, I am thinking of any and all people who have had uncomfortable sexual experiences that don't want to be reminded of that by the auction scene. Everybody deserves to feel safe on a whimsical theme park ride.

                                          2) I'm very far left politically speaking, and I have a very cynical view of the world. I think everything is terrible and we're all doomed, so to me, "PC culture" isn't a big deal because being sensitive to one another and respecting people's feelings and identity and experiences doesn't cost me anything but mindfulness.

                                          3) I have only experienced backlash to this change in a few places: reddit (mostly from misogynistic boys), Facebook (mostly from rich idiots), and here (crochety dads, I guess? Not sure what the demographic is). Meanwhile, in the real world, everybody I talk about Disney with, ESPECIALLY my friends, most of whom are millennial women like myself, are beyond excited about the change. For them and for me, it's an upgrade. A massive upgrade.

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