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Pirates of the Caribbean closing April 23 to remove the auction scene

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  • #41
    Originally posted by NotChuck View Post
    I'm curious as to how omitting/revising this scene ruins the ride. Let's be honest, I suspect that for many people it has less to do with caring about PotC's history and heritage, and more to do with the idea that this change means that "liberal PC Culture" (whatever that is) would get a mark in the win column, and that bothers some people. They see it as an assault on them personally, and that there's some kind of cultural battle going on that they don't want to be on the losing side of.
    For me ... has everything to do with what I bolded ... and NONE of what follows in that paragraph. Has everything to do with a ride that has been perfect the way first generation imagineers crafted it.
    The 1997 alterations - 2006 Johnny Depp "PotC film" elements - and now the 2018 auction scene change are a slap in the face to the brilliant imagineers who masterfully created so many things (not just this ride).... that has gone deaf to many people these days.
    We are all intelligent creatures are we? So ... we can understand the tongue in cheek tone to the ride. RIGHT????





    MY SIGNATURE:
    Dear Peoplemover Fans, If you want to see a new attraction that at least mimics the 1967 Peoplemover in a future Tomorrowland remodel, you need to write to the powers-that-be, and let them know. If you don't - Then the next time Tomorrowland is remodeled, you will see a land barren of any "Peoplemover" type attraction.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post

      For me ... has everything to do with what I bolded ... and NONE of what follows in that paragraph. Has everything to do with a ride that has been perfect the way first generation imagineers crafted it.
      The 1997 alterations - 2006 Johnny Depp "PotC film" elements - and now the 2018 auction scene change are a slap in the face to the brilliant imagineers who masterfully created so many things (not just this ride).... that has gone deaf to many people these days.
      We are all intelligent creatures are we? So ... we can understand the tongue in cheek tone to the ride. RIGHT????

      You have to realize that what you deem as tongue in cheek and harmless might be un-funny or borderline offensive to others right? Also, and just in general, you must know that sensibilities have changed over time. Something that was funny at one time, might not play as well with new audiences.

      As an example, Friends- the iconic and massive hit show from the 90's has recently taken some heat for some of the story-lines and characters as now being deemed insensitive to current norms.

      http://www.radiotimes.com/news/on-de...thleen-turner/

      Regardless of how ridiculous WE think these new PC criticisms are of the show, it is clear that a new generation of people (or consumers) who the likes of Disney are trying to sell a product to, do not have the same sensibilities of tongue in cheek that we did in the past.








      I open a toy, review it and take mediocore pictures. Read all about it HERE!

      Originally posted by VintageMouse;n8463446

      You know best :-)

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by rockabillylaker View Post
        -long post with lots of quote boxes-
        Well, first of all, "virtue signaling" is a meaningless dog whistle. If we are to disregard any argument on the grounds that it's "virtue signaling," we might as well just throw them all out, because technically speaking, you yourself are virtue signaling by arguing in favor of anything you believe in.

        Second, I am not personally offended by the scene. I am not aghast every time I see it, nor do I wake up in a cold sweat at 3 am thinking about it. But there is not really any reason to keep it as it currently is except nostalgia. It wouldn't adversely affect the story of the ride or even really distract from it.

        Third, frankly, there are lots of goofy ways to present torture, and on the ride is no exception. You also never really get the impression that the man's life is in danger. On the flipside, there is no comedic way to present human trafficking. How many people do you know of who have had their heads dunked in a well? Because I don't know any. I would be surprised to find out that anyone currently alive in the United States has experienced that.

        Fourth, I didn't pull a damn thing "out of my rear." Human trafficking undeniably targets children and vulnerable and desperate people, both male and female. These are people who often cannot defend themselves. Yes, it is kind of almost sort of very, very loosely implied that women and children may or may not be victims of the pillaging in the song, but it's never explicitly shown, unlike the obvious human trafficking scene we're arguing about right now. Plus, frankly, you could just as easily assume that the women and children were taken to safety and are not being terrorized. And of course sex is implied in the auction scene. When you see "take a wench for a bride," what do you think the pirates are going to do when they buy the women? Put them up in their multi-million dollar pirate mansions?

        Fifth, regarding your second "uhhhhh what," I explained the standard to you in like, the second sentence of my post. Maybe go back and reread it.

        Last but not least, I don't think I'm going to engage with you much further on this if you're just going to plainly say that there's no difference at all between cannon fights and slapstick "torture" and human trafficking. You are clearly refusing to consider for one second why the other side of the argument feels the way they do.
        Last edited by LetsGoDubs; 03-14-2018, 09:03 AM. Reason: quoting mess-up
        Warriors, Giants, Sharks, Texans fan from the Bay Area.
        Annual visitor to Disneyland ('99, '04-08, '11-present)
        So so hyphy.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by rockabillylaker View Post

          My apologies. I thought we were referring to women in the US. I agree 100% that women in radical Muslim cultures are some of the most oppressed people on Earth.
          He WAS referring to women in the US. There is every sort of sexual misconduct imaginable occurring every day here, and when women come forward with their stories, they are often not believed. Plus, when it comes to matters such as finding a job, men are likelier to be considered than women in many, many cases.
          Warriors, Giants, Sharks, Texans fan from the Bay Area.
          Annual visitor to Disneyland ('99, '04-08, '11-present)
          So so hyphy.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by rockabillylaker View Post

            My apologies. I thought we were referring to women in the US. I agree 100% that women in radical Muslim cultures are some of the most oppressed people on Earth.
            And here in the US, we have an executive branch that praises and makes excuses for men who are known to be violent with their wives and there are still lots of plenty of Americans who are happy to blame the victims when they report sex crimes, think that they can tell women what they can and can't do with their bodies, shame women for not matching some body type, etc. I'm not saying that this is directly relevant to PotC, but pretending that the US is extremely enlightened, when it comes to equal treatment of women, is ludicrous.
            Dead Mice Tell No Tails!

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            • #46
              Originally posted by LetsGoDubs View Post

              He WAS referring to women in the US. There is every sort of sexual misconduct imaginable occurring every day here, and when women come forward with their stories, they are often not believed. Plus, when it comes to matters such as finding a job, men are likelier to be considered than women in many, many cases.
              Right. If someone thinks that sex slave trade isn't alive and well in the good old US of A, they need to be better informed.
              Dead Mice Tell No Tails!

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by rockabillylaker View Post

                But the majority does. And the majority is not offended by it.
                Have you asked the majority what they think about this issue? If not, don't claim to know what they think.

                [QUOTE=rockabillylaker;n8550762]
                Originally posted by LetsGoDubs View Post

                uhhh....what?! There's a torture scene in this ride. You okay with that I take it? You talk nuances but, only describe the ones that fit your virtue signaling. You can assume there are other women and children being robbed. Hell, it's stated in the lyrics. There are no victimless crimes in this ride.

                It's hard to grasp because you manage to pull all of that out of your rear when sex is not even implied in that scene.
                You chose not to see sex is implied in the scene. Do you recall that before they added Captain Jack, there was a girl hiding in a barrel and the pirate next to the barrel was holding her dress. I see that as a clear implication that the pirate had intended to get her out of those clothes.

                [QUOTE=rockabillylaker;n8550762]
                Originally posted by LetsGoDubs View Post
                And there's literal human torture with a helpless victim.
                The mayor is being dunked into the well with his head pointed up and is clearly able to resist such cobbled-together attempts to make him talk. There is even cutesy dialogue in which he refuses to tell them what they want. He's hardly portrayed as helpless. However, the women are chained together, held at gun point and aren't given any voice of their own in the scene.

                [QUOTE=rockabillylaker;n8550762]
                Originally posted by LetsGoDubs View Post
                Nope. There's no difference. It's a ride. It's entertaining and funny. You only want to pick and choose so that it conveniently fits your narrative.
                There is a difference for those that are willing to see it. I personally still see PoTC, on whole, as a caricature of bygone times with no intention of being taken even remotely literally. However, that doesn't stop me from considering how it might affect others and acknowledging that what it depicts may not be funny or cute to everybody. The real argument is between whether Disney should leave PotC the way it is and upset people sensitive to activities currently depicted and implied in the attraction or change it and upset people who like it the way it is just because that's the way it's always been. My suggestion to either party is the same: If you don't like it, you can choose not to partake.
                Dead Mice Tell No Tails!

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by LetsGoDubs View Post

                  He WAS referring to women in the US. There is every sort of sexual misconduct imaginable occurring every day here, and when women come forward with their stories, they are often not believed. Plus, when it comes to matters such as finding a job, men are likelier to be considered than women in many, many cases.
                  You have no facts to back up your claims. It's been proven that there is no systematic oppression towards women in the US. Again virtue signaling. I'm just stating facts. You're stating rhetoric. A woman doesn't get passed up for a job simply because she is a woman. There are many factors that get ignored by those who believe this hogwash.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by rockabillylaker View Post

                    You have no facts to back up your claims. It's been proven that there is no systematic oppression towards women in the US. Again virtue signaling. I'm just stating facts. You're stating rhetoric. A woman doesn't get passed up for a job simply because she is a woman. There are many factors that get ignored by those who believe this hogwash.
                    Thank goodness that you were stating the real FACTS. Thank you for finally putting this argument to rest.





                    I open a toy, review it and take mediocore pictures. Read all about it HERE!

                    Originally posted by VintageMouse;n8463446

                    You know best :-)

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by rockabillylaker View Post

                      You have no facts to back up your claims. It's been proven that there is no systematic oppression towards women in the US. Again virtue signaling. I'm just stating facts. You're stating rhetoric. A woman doesn't get passed up for a job simply because she is a woman. There are many factors that get ignored by those who believe this hogwash.
                      So what do you think of this Columbia study that suggests that gender bias in STEM is real?

                      https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/newsro...n-stem-careers

                      There are your numbers. Whether this bias is intended or occurs at a subconscious level is up for debate, but the data shows that between a woman and a man with similar qualifications, the man is likelier to get the job. And that is to say nothing of the epidemic of sexual harassment in Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Wall Street, and elsewhere. So where are YOUR facts? “It’s been proven that there is no systematic oppression?” By whom?
                      Last edited by LetsGoDubs; 03-14-2018, 12:32 PM.
                      Warriors, Giants, Sharks, Texans fan from the Bay Area.
                      Annual visitor to Disneyland ('99, '04-08, '11-present)
                      So so hyphy.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        I assume the source rhymes with "box shoes".
                        I open a toy, review it and take mediocore pictures. Read all about it HERE!

                        Originally posted by VintageMouse;n8463446

                        You know best :-)

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post

                          For me ... has everything to do with what I bolded ... and NONE of what follows in that paragraph. Has everything to do with a ride that has been perfect the way first generation imagineers crafted it.
                          The 1997 alterations - 2006 Johnny Depp "PotC film" elements - and now the 2018 auction scene change are a slap in the face to the brilliant imagineers who masterfully created so many things (not just this ride).... that has gone deaf to many people these days.
                          We are all intelligent creatures are we? So ... we can understand the tongue in cheek tone to the ride. RIGHT????
                          All of us are probably familiar with Song of the South. I'm sure a lot of animators worked very hard and put their heart and soul into it's creation. It's beautifully made and has a few jaunty little tunes that are fun to sing along to, but that film has never seen an official DVD release by Disney and most likely never will. Why? Because the stereotypes depicted within it are now deemed archaic and offensive. No one is trying to pretend those stereotypes didn't exist. No one is trying to minimize the technical achievements of anyone who worked on Song of the South. Cultures change. Attitudes change. YOU might be lucky enough to have the luxury of laughing off or ignoring racism, sexism, misogyny, and bigotry, but a lot of others don't. THAT'S the point that people are trying to make.

                          Based on all the comments, it seems like there's a few issues here.

                          Some simply wish to freeze in time an amusement park ride they've developed an emotional attachment to.
                          Some are resistant to change because it makes them feel frightened and uncomfortable.
                          Some want to dismiss any movement to address gender inequality because they believe that if they haven't personally experienced something, it doesn't exist.
                          And some just want to be free to have a giggle at the idea of women being treated like cattle.

                          None of these are valid reasons for being opposed to the altering of the PotC auction scene.

                          The more callous and cynical among us who are proud of their thick skin and how heroically unoffended they are by anything love to say things like "Suck it up, cupcake. The world is full of cruel people who don't give a crap about your feelings." That might be true, but if "PC Culture" seeks to help move us all towards a more compassionate and understanding society, I'll gladly choose that over being indifferently self-absorbed and telling everyone that other people's struggles aren't my problem.
                          Last edited by NotChuck; 03-15-2018, 08:04 AM.
                          "Hang on to them hats 'n glasses, cuz this here's the wildest ride in the wilderness!"

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by LetsGoDubs View Post

                            So what do you think of this Columbia study that suggests that gender bias in STEM is real?

                            https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/newsro...n-stem-careers

                            There are your numbers. Whether this bias is intended or occurs at a subconscious level is up for debate, but the data shows that between a woman and a man with similar qualifications, the man is likelier to get the job. And that is to say nothing of the epidemic of sexual harassment in Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Wall Street, and elsewhere. So where are YOUR facts? “It’s been proven that there is no systematic oppression?” By whom?
                            Yes because I'm really going to take a study by left leaning university from New York at face value. No thanks.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by LetsGoDubs View Post

                              So what do you think of this Columbia study that suggests that gender bias in STEM is real?

                              https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/newsro...n-stem-careers

                              There are your numbers. Whether this bias is intended or occurs at a subconscious level is up for debate, but the data shows that between a woman and a man with similar qualifications, the man is likelier to get the job. And that is to say nothing of the epidemic of sexual harassment in Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Wall Street, and elsewhere. So where are YOUR facts? “It’s been proven that there is no systematic oppression?” By whom?
                              After reading that like 500 word 'report' it is a sham of an experiment with no data actually presented. Maybe men are more likely to be in STEM field jobs, cause guess what there are more men applying for them. Having completed degrees in computer science and computer engineering, even in the first intro classes the likely hood of women even taking them is somewhere around 5%, and after getting to the like 3rd semester of classes it was surprising to see a single female in the class at all. People pushing companies to hire more women solely for having more women are doing themselves a disfavor as the people they hire will then lead the hiring managers to reinforce their ideas because they have been shown that previous women hired for token women, were unable to do the job.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by rockabillylaker View Post

                                In the end, it's funny, it's satire, it's fantasy, it's pirates it's a FRIGGIN RIDE! Get over yourselves. If you're going SJW, go all the way. Let's remove half of Jungle Cruise, all of Small World and change the whole theme of Frontier Land while we're at it.
                                the bolded text is only sensible thought that you shared in the post. The rest is intentionally inflammatory; not sure what your end game is here.
                                I open a toy, review it and take mediocore pictures. Read all about it HERE!

                                Originally posted by VintageMouse;n8463446

                                You know best :-)

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by rockabillylaker View Post

                                  Yes because I'm really going to take a study by left leaning university from New York at face value. No thanks.
                                  So you didn’t read it, and don’t care to hear anything at all that doesn’t align with your narrative. Ok, I think that about wraps up this conversation.

                                  Warriors, Giants, Sharks, Texans fan from the Bay Area.
                                  Annual visitor to Disneyland ('99, '04-08, '11-present)
                                  So so hyphy.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by bye130 View Post

                                    After reading that like 500 word 'report' it is a sham of an experiment with no data actually presented. Maybe men are more likely to be in STEM field jobs, cause guess what there are more men applying for them. Having completed degrees in computer science and computer engineering, even in the first intro classes the likely hood of women even taking them is somewhere around 5%, and after getting to the like 3rd semester of classes it was surprising to see a single female in the class at all. People pushing companies to hire more women solely for having more women are doing themselves a disfavor as the people they hire will then lead the hiring managers to reinforce their ideas because they have been shown that previous women hired for token women, were unable to do the job.
                                    Lots of anecdotal evidence here, but there is a reasonable case to be made that there are more men applying in STEM than women. But if that’s the case, do you not believe that internalized sexism plays any role whatsoever in preventing women from applying for those positions?
                                    Warriors, Giants, Sharks, Texans fan from the Bay Area.
                                    Annual visitor to Disneyland ('99, '04-08, '11-present)
                                    So so hyphy.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by rockabillylaker View Post
                                      If you're going SJW, go all the way. Let's remove half of Jungle Cruise,
                                      This but unironically. I love the animal gags on Jungle Cruise and the sardonic humor of the skippers, but the depictions of native people are inexcusably racist.

                                      Anyway, I don't have the energy to continue with this thread, but to all those in favor of the change (or merely indifferent), I thank you for being so considerate and empathetic.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Meville View Post

                                        How amazing for you to have the power to know how every guest feels about an attraction.

                                        Perhaps Disney is looking at it from a progressive view that little girls can experience an attraction without feeling like their own self worth is not determined by how attractive they are and little boys can see that women are not objects to be bought and sold.
                                        Seriously? For decades it wasn’t a problem. I suppose all of us who rode the original POTC (both male and female) were somehow warped and damged by the bad messages the ride brainwashed us with?

                                        What’s next? Getting rid of the burning town scene because it promotes arson? Heck even the NEW auction scene promotes robbery and fencing of stolen goods!

                                        You know what? Let’s just demolish POTC altogether. That attraction is bad news. Right?

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by shazang View Post

                                          This but unironically. I love the animal gags on Jungle Cruise and the sardonic humor of the skippers, but the depictions of native people are inexcusably racist.
                                          The world is a big bad place and nobody has the right to not be offended. I’m really not sure what our society is comimg to when everyone needs to live in a nice soft, delicate, safe space bubble.

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