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Pirates of the Caribbean closing April 23 to remove the auction scene

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  • Originally posted by Blue Lagoon View Post

    Who said the joke doesn’t work? Where’s the evidence of a major backlash or a ton of complaints?
    If you've read comments and posts whenever this topic comes up, you'd see plenty of people saying they didn't care for the scene. Most importantly, Disney didn't care for the scene and they kind of own it. As a comedian, I've had many a joke which killed before, but stopped resonating the way it should Does that mean the joke received complaints? Nope. Just didn't hit like it should. And as society changed, I felt grosser telling that joke. So I changed it. Same with Disney. It's their ride and their joke, and they know that the joke is from a different era when jokes about women being trophies and fat jokes were much more mainstream. They might still be funny, but they certainly are less mainstream and Disney has never tried to hide from the fact that it is decidedly mainstream. Want some edgier humor, go to Universal. I love their shows and humor they employ. Knotts also does some bluer humor, especially for Scary Farm. Disney wants G-rated.
    Women, they make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by LetsGoDubs View Post

      Joking about selling women against their will (and then making a fat joke about one of them) won't have much staying power going forward, and doesn't have the same comedic appeal that it used to. So yeah, people's changing tastes and Disney's awareness of them are indeed factors. Thanks for telling me my ideas are insipid and ridiculous despite several pages of what I feel are decent explanations of why the scene is no longer necessary. While the honesty is appreciated, I have had many an argument here on MiceChat and can honestly say I have yet to find anyone that I've disagreed with to have "insipid and ridiculous" ideas. It's odd that you spent so much time harping on colleges for supposedly suppressing diversity of thought but at the same time seem to think I'm objectively less intelligent than you because we disagree.

      EDIT: I know that you emphasized "ideas" to make your comment seem less personal, and I do appreciate that. However, I don't think it's really very easy to separate a person from their ideas. Anyways, moving on, I agree with ProfessorTango that the joke feels odd and out of place to me at times, and could reasonably be updated without adversely affecting the ride.
      I don’t think you’re less intelligent, I just think your ideas about the auction scene are totally off.

      P.S. I have never harped on colleges and universities for supressing a “diversity of ideas”. I HAVE harped on students getting upset because they might be required to read a text in English class that might “offend them”, ”make them feel uncomfortable”, or “hurt their feelings”. And then said students start pushing for “opt outs” or “trigger warmings” in a syllabus!
      Last edited by Blue Lagoon; 04-17-2018, 12:15 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Blue Lagoon View Post

        I get upset because that’s what pirates did? What? I fully support the bride auction! And no, there is nothing and there never has been anything offensive in Pirates. Anyone who thinks so has other problems. It’s utterly ludicrous. Unbelievable. Where did this warped PC culture come from?
        You misunderstood. That's my fault because I was a bit vague. What I meant was that you argue these are not real pirates and nobody should be concerned about what they do, but when people want a change in the depiction of the pirate's actions, you get upset because the pirate should be depicted doing things pirates do.

        The fact that you vehemently insist that there is something wrong with anyone who perceives something distasteful in PotC, indicates that you're unwilling to consider (or incapable of considering] any point of view other than your own. The point of discussion forums is to discuss something, not state your opinion as fact and tell anyone who disagrees with you that they are just flat wrong regardless of what evidence they offer to support their point of view.
        Last edited by BiggestDisneyFan; 04-17-2018, 01:29 PM.
        Dead Mice Tell No Tails!

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        • Originally posted by BiggestDisneyFan View Post

          You misunderstood. That's my fault because I was a bit vague. What I meant was that you argue these are not real pirates and nobody should be concerned about what they do, but when people want a change in the depiction of the pirate's actions, you get upset because the pirate should be depicted doing things pirates do.

          The fact that you vehemently insist that there is something wrong with anyone who perceives something distasteful in PotC, indicates that you're unwilling to consider (or incapable of considering] any point of view other than your own. The point of discussion forums is to discuss something, not state your opinion as fact and tell anyone who disagrees with you that they are just flat wrong regardless of what evidence they offer to support their point of view.
          Nobody, including you, is changing their mind here. At any rate, I’ve heard your ideas about the scene (and others with the same ideas) and think those ideas are ludicrous. Surprised?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Professortango View Post

            If you've read comments and posts whenever this topic comes up, you'd see plenty of people saying they didn't care for the scene. Most importantly, Disney didn't care for the scene and they kind of own it. As a comedian, I've had many a joke which killed before, but stopped resonating the way it should Does that mean the joke received complaints? Nope. Just didn't hit like it should. And as society changed, I felt grosser telling that joke. So I changed it. Same with Disney. It's their ride and their joke, and they know that the joke is from a different era when jokes about women being trophies and fat jokes were much more mainstream. They might still be funny, but they certainly are less mainstream and Disney has never tried to hide from the fact that it is decidedly mainstream. Want some edgier humor, go to Universal. I love their shows and humor they employ. Knotts also does some bluer humor, especially for Scary Farm. Disney wants G-rated.
            I’ve also seen plenty of responses from people here and elsewhere who think the change is ridiculous. So what of it?

            Hah. Fat jokes. Americans are obese anyway. They didn’t have to rebuild the boats for “It’s a Small World” for nothing you know.

            George Lucas made idiotic changes to Star Wars too (Han Solo shot first!). I guess he “owned it” as you say, but he was still an idiot, most fans agree. Same with Spielberg. He altered the movie ET during a re-release to take the guns out of the hands of the goverment agents and replaced them with walkie talkies. Guess he “owns it” too, but, it was still a stupid thing to do. Thankfully, 35mm prints with the original scene still exist. I saw one last summer.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Blue Lagoon View Post

              You just said this wasn’t about people picketing, and there was no backlash, so what’s this about “evolving tastes” or “consumer tastes in 2018”? I think there is a very shrill, minority of people who think this way. And, yes, since you asked, I do indeed find the *ideas* you have stated “insipid and ridiculous”. Otherwise, I wouldn’t be arguing this with you.
              That isn't such a small minority as it once was. The attitudes of society, in general, are becoming less tolerant of humor that depicts the abuse of women. You're right in that most people wouldn't really consider the auction scene objectionable, but Disney is a big company and so they answer to a very wide audience. The portion of their audience that is very sensitive to such things may not be very large, yet, but they espouse a point of view that more and more of modern society agrees with. Goofy pirates aside, the activity being carried out, at it's core, represents the objectification and abuse of women. Yes, this is the kind of thing that pirates did and if this was an attraction that was supposed to present a serious, realistic depiction of pirates, it would be fine. But the activity is depicted as part of something humorous and that's the problem.

              Something to consider: Lots of pirates are firing cannons and guns in PotC, but nobody ever actually gets shot. That's because while a lot of people would have no problem with seeing pirates getting shot and dying in a comedic fashion, Walt Disney decided that it would cross a line of what was appropriate for a Disney attraction. The public perception of killing had a lot to do with that. Now, the public has become more conscious of, and therefore less tolerant of, rampant abuse towards women and the selling of people. Disney is adjusting now, rather than when a larger number of people start to complain about it. Just a few years ago, if a woman was sexually harassed while working in some environments, most people would have just said that it was part of the pitfalls of working in those environments and that the women that didn't want to deal with it could find a job elsewhere. Now, that attitude has been turned on it's ear. Abuse towards women is quickly becoming a hot-button issue and Disney doesn't want to deal with negative press when it can easily be avoided.
              Last edited by BiggestDisneyFan; 04-17-2018, 02:24 PM.
              Dead Mice Tell No Tails!

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              • Originally posted by Blue Lagoon View Post

                I’ve also seen plenty of responses from people here and elsewhere who think the change is ridiculous. So what of it?

                Hah. Fat jokes. Americans are obese anyway. They didn’t have to rebuild the boats for “It’s a Small World” for nothing you know.

                George Lucas made idiotic changes to Star Wars too (Han Solo shot first!). I guess he “owned it” as you say, but he was still an idiot, most fans agree. Same with Spielberg. He altered the movie ET during a re-release to take the guns out of the hands of the goverment agents and replaced them with walkie talkies. Guess he “owns it” too, but, it was still a stupid thing to do. Thankfully, 35mm prints with the original scene still exist. I saw one last summer.
                There's a difference. Film is released to the public. Theme parks are ongoing entertainment. One is a message in a bottle and the other is a live stream. Also, no problem with Lucas updating his films, my issue is Lucas trying to rid the world of the original versions. We shouldn't erase our history, even when we want to move past it.
                Women, they make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BiggestDisneyFan View Post

                  That isn't such a small minority as it once was. The attitudes of society, in general, are becoming less tolerant of humor that depicts the abuse of women. You're right in that most people wouldn't really consider the auction scene objectionable, but Disney is a big company and so they answer to a very wide audience. The portion of their audience that is very sensitive to such things may not be very large, yet, but they espouse a point of view that more and more of modern society agrees with. Goofy pirates aside, the activity being carried out, at it's core, represents the objectification and abuse of women. Yes, this is the kind of thing that pirates did and if this was an attraction that was supposed to be educational, it would be fine, but the activity is depicted as funny, and that's the problem.
                  Well I think the scene IS funny. And so do a lot of other people.

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                  • Originally posted by Professortango View Post
                    ...my issue is Lucas trying to rid the world of the original versions.
                    EXACTLY. I agree with that.

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                    • Originally posted by Blue Lagoon View Post

                      Well I think the scene IS funny. And so do a lot of other people.
                      And a lot of other people find the scene kind of dated in terms of comedy. Including Disney. So....they are managing their material the way they see fit. Don't like it, don't go. No need for a meltdown.
                      Women, they make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Professortango View Post

                        And a lot of other people find the scene kind of dated in terms of comedy. Including Disney. So....they are managing their material the way they see fit. Don't like it, don't go. No need for a meltdown.
                        Like no need for a “meltdown” over the non-sensical “it’s human trafficking” argument?

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                        • Originally posted by Blue Lagoon View Post

                          EXACTLY. I agree with that.
                          And the Disneyland version is archived and preserved in pictures, video, and other media. The attraction itself has been updated numerous times since opening already, clearly one change to one scene isn't destroying the integrity of the attraction when there's Davey Jones and Captain Jack Sparrow in the ride.
                          Women, they make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Blue Lagoon View Post

                            Like no need for a “meltdown” over the non-sensical “it’s human trafficking” argument?
                            Nobody is melting down over the human trafficking comment but you. Most people say..."yeah, I see that and the change is probably due."
                            Women, they make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Professortango View Post

                              And the Disneyland version is archived and preserved in pictures, video, and other media. The attraction itself has been updated numerous times since opening already, clearly one change to one scene isn't destroying the integrity of the attraction when there's Davey Jones and Captain Jack Sparrow in the ride.
                              Oh, I hate that crap too. But yeah, in my opinion the ride has been dragged downhill, but that’s what Disney management is good at these days. Dragging things downhill.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Professortango View Post

                                Nobody is melting down over the human trafficking comment but you. Most people say..."yeah, I see that and the change is probably due."
                                People melting down over the Auction scene calling it “Human Trafficking”.

                                Most people? Says who? Says you? There are many, many people who think this is bull****, and agree that there was no reason to change.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Blue Lagoon View Post

                                  Nobody, including you, is changing their mind here. At any rate, I’ve heard your ideas about the scene (and others with the same ideas) and think those ideas are ludicrous. Surprised?
                                  I accept your point of view as valid and have not made a judgement of you based on it. I'm just suggesting reasons why Disney is making the changes to PotC. I'm not asking you to change your mind, but maybe just to acknowledge that others here are making valid points, even if you disagree with Disney's actions in this matter. Surprised? Hardly.
                                  Dead Mice Tell No Tails!

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Blue Lagoon View Post

                                    People melting down over the Auction scene calling it “Human Trafficking”.

                                    Most people? Says who? Says you? There are many, many people who think this is bull****, and agree that there was no reason to change.
                                    I only see one person having a melt down currently. Most melt downs online are people screaming about "ruining the attraction" and "PC Police."

                                    As for a large portion of posters being understanding of the change, I'm basing it based on what I see here on this site, other Disney forum sites, and Facebook. I see a lot of people recognizing the scene is human trafficking and no longer has the same charm it once did.

                                    And you don't need to see a reason for the change. The world doesn't revolve around you. Disney saw a reason for a change and many agreed. End of story. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it null and void.
                                    Women, they make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Blue Lagoon View Post

                                      People melting down over the Auction scene calling it “Human Trafficking”.

                                      Most people? Says who? Says you? There are many, many people who think this is bull****, and agree that there was no reason to change.
                                      Can I see your polling results?
                                      Dead Mice Tell No Tails!

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by BiggestDisneyFan View Post

                                        Can I see your polling results?
                                        Can I see yours?

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Professortango View Post

                                          I only see one person having a melt down currently. Most melt downs online are people screaming about "ruining the attraction" and "PC Police."

                                          As for a large portion of posters being understanding of the change, I'm basing it based on what I see here on this site, other Disney forum sites, and Facebook. I see a lot of people recognizing the scene is human trafficking and no longer has the same charm it once did.

                                          And you don't need to see a reason for the change. The world doesn't revolve around you. Disney saw a reason for a change and many agreed. End of story. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it null and void.
                                          I’m not the first person who has lambasted this change, or the change made back in the ‘90’s with the chase scene. Mind you also, the world doesn’t revolve around people who are “offended” by the scene either.

                                          Also, modern Disney doesn’t always make the right choices. That has been plain since the day Eisner boarded the ship, then brought on Pressler, and Harris, and Rasulo. Now we have Chapek.....

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