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  • #81
    Originally posted by Beavis View Post

    I don't really believe there's such a thing as 'stuck' in one of the most expensive cities in the country. If they're there making minimum-ish wage, it would likely be a very good lifestyle choice to move somewhere where that amount of money buys more. That very kind of reordering is why price signaling exists. And without it, nothing works.

    And it's never been easier to go back to college. You can do so from your house. There are tax incentives and financing to make it happen. It makes you wonder how all these previous generations managed to move to find work and/or find the right training. I guarantee you they weren't telling themselves, "But I have the right to do what I already know how to do, wherever I want, for whatever wage is comfortable for me."

    Just a completely backwards way to look at the problem.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/20/mcdo...th-kiosks.html
    I feel like you are seeing this as an ideal rather than a reality. It's not that people are unable to go back to school for access reasons. It's more like when money is stretched so tight that people are surviving on whatever is in their pantries until payday, adding education expenses to that is a luxury they know they cannot afford. Face it, advanced education in America is a luxury. We set it up that way when we allowed colleges to profit off of sky-high tuitions, and we allowed the government to profit off of student loans. We used to believe that a college degree held the key to a successful future. Do you know how many college graduates are still working at Starbucks or bartending because they don't qualify for jobs in their fields with just their bachelor's degrees? Graduates are struggling to pay off student loans because the government charges compound interest at 6% (while Wall St. borrows at .25%). Students are defaulting on loans left and right, which means they are not buying houses and cannot get jobs where credit checks are a part of the pre-screening process. Absent very extreme circumstances, student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, so the student loan bubble will burst very soon (probably even under this administration with as many morons running "education" as there are).

    People who live on low hourly wages and work multiple jobs to make ends meet probably don't love their lives and do dream about having everything you suggest they can easily do. But until you walk the miles in their shoes that they do every day, you don't really know how much of a burden advancing their lives can mean. And honestly, as someone who had to go home and live with my parents until I was in my 30s, it effing sucks and it's demoralizing, and hearing people tell us to fix what we don't like feels like a punch in the gut, even if it is well-meaning. And then what happens when you do all of these things - get a better education, move to a better city, get roommates, etc. - and you're still unable to make ends meet because cost of living is rapidly growing all over America and salaries aren't increasing to match COL? It's a vicious cycle and so many of us are stuck in it.

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    • #82
      Originally posted by UltimateSurvivor View Post

      I feel like you are seeing this as an ideal rather than a reality. It's not that people are unable to go back to school for access reasons. It's more like when money is stretched so tight that people are surviving on whatever is in their pantries until payday, adding education expenses to that is a luxury they know they cannot afford. Face it, advanced education in America is a luxury. We set it up that way when we allowed colleges to profit off of sky-high tuitions, and we allowed the government to profit off of student loans. We used to believe that a college degree held the key to a successful future. Do you know how many college graduates are still working at Starbucks or bartending because they don't qualify for jobs in their fields with just their bachelor's degrees? Graduates are struggling to pay off student loans because the government charges compound interest at 6% (while Wall St. borrows at .25%). Students are defaulting on loans left and right, which means they are not buying houses and cannot get jobs where credit checks are a part of the pre-screening process. Absent very extreme circumstances, student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, so the student loan bubble will burst very soon (probably even under this administration with as many morons running "education" as there are).

      People who live on low hourly wages and work multiple jobs to make ends meet probably don't love their lives and do dream about having everything you suggest they can easily do. But until you walk the miles in their shoes that they do every day, you don't really know how much of a burden advancing their lives can mean. And honestly, as someone who had to go home and live with my parents until I was in my 30s, it effing sucks and it's demoralizing, and hearing people tell us to fix what we don't like feels like a punch in the gut, even if it is well-meaning. And then what happens when you do all of these things - get a better education, move to a better city, get roommates, etc. - and you're still unable to make ends meet because cost of living is rapidly growing all over America and salaries aren't increasing to match COL? It's a vicious cycle and so many of us are stuck in it.
      I started out 'professional' life moving to another city to work at Walmart in a dive apartment while my future wife borrowed money to go to state college.. But luckily I lived in a part of the country where that was an actual possibility. Because rents and other expenses were fairly affordable. Lots of Ramen and Hamburger Helper in those days.

      And then I started working on a certification which led to a job that paid a little better, which led to a resume that got me interviews elsewhere, which got me into a health care job, which got me exposed to many other opportunities.

      If there are two pieces of advice I'd give for people in that kind of situation, it's one, live somewhere affordable. And two, work somewhere where there's a ground floor and other floors of opportunity above it. I'd rather work in a hospital cafeteria than a Starbucks. The work is much less glamorous, or maybe less socially acceptable, sure. But Starbucks is and will always be Starbucks. That's all there is.

      Move in to the ground floor of a business that offers numerous opportunities. There you'll find out what other opportunities are in demand, and often your employer will even help you meet the requirements to fill those demands. But always, your mobility and flexibility is key.

      The world where you stay wherever you're at and have opportunity just handed to you never existed. Someday soon some mostly automated version of Starbucks will be reality and the people who thought they were entitled to at least a Starbucks-level job will learn otherwise. But the flexible will find a way forward, while demands for artificially higher wages will only help encourage the move to automation replacing everyone else. Like McDonalds is actively working on.

      Comment


      • #83
        Originally posted by UltimateSurvivor View Post
        I feel like you are seeing this as an ideal rather than a reality. It's not that people are unable to go back to school for access reasons. It's more like when money is stretched so tight that people are surviving on whatever is in their pantries until payday, adding education expenses to that is a luxury they know they cannot afford. Face it, advanced education in America is a luxury. We set it up that way when we allowed colleges to profit off of sky-high tuitions, and we allowed the government to profit off of student loans. We used to believe that a college degree held the key to a successful future. Do you know how many college graduates are still working at Starbucks or bartending because they don't qualify for jobs in their fields with just their bachelor's degrees? Graduates are struggling to pay off student loans because the government charges compound interest at 6% (while Wall St. borrows at .25%). Students are defaulting on loans left and right, which means they are not buying houses and cannot get jobs where credit checks are a part of the pre-screening process. Absent very extreme circumstances, student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, so the student loan bubble will burst very soon (probably even under this administration with as many morons running "education" as there are).

        People who live on low hourly wages and work multiple jobs to make ends meet probably don't love their lives and do dream about having everything you suggest they can easily do. But until you walk the miles in their shoes that they do every day, you don't really know how much of a burden advancing their lives can mean. And honestly, as someone who had to go home and live with my parents until I was in my 30s, it effing sucks and it's demoralizing, and hearing people tell us to fix what we don't like feels like a punch in the gut, even if it is well-meaning. And then what happens when you do all of these things - get a better education, move to a better city, get roommates, etc. - and you're still unable to make ends meet because cost of living is rapidly growing all over America and salaries aren't increasing to match COL? It's a vicious cycle and so many of us are stuck in it.
        Very well said. Sadly, though, it is incomprehensible to the right-wingers in this country -- their world view is notorious for its lack of empathy.

        Empathy and Political Preferences

        A Conservative Explains Why Right-Wingers Have No Compassion

        Conservatives are happier than liberals – but only because they lack empathy

        The Decline of Empathy and the Appeal of Right-Wing Politics


        "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
        Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
        imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

        - Neil Gabler

        "I didn't know the story of baby Jesus could be any better,
        until Thor told it to me."
        -
        Young girl at Disneyland's 2017 Candlelight Ceremony

        Comment


        • #84
          Originally posted by Beavis View Post

          I don't really believe there's such a thing as 'stuck' in one of the most expensive cities in the country. If they're there making minimum-ish wage, it would likely be a very good lifestyle choice to move somewhere where that amount of money buys more. That very kind of reordering is why price signaling exists. And without it, nothing works.

          And it's never been easier to go back to college. You can do so from your house. There are tax incentives and financing to make it happen. It makes you wonder how all these previous generations managed to move to find work and/or find the right training. I guarantee you they weren't telling themselves, "But I have the right to do what I already know how to do, wherever I want, for whatever wage is comfortable for me."

          Just a completely backwards way to look at the problem.

          https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/20/mcdo...th-kiosks.html
          You personally haven't been in that situation so all you can do is speculate. Yes it's easy to get "stuck" in Orange county paycheck to paycheck on a minimum wage and not enough money to even move out and away to start over again. It's the minor details beyond the conservative talking points you just don't see or are privy to.

          Easy to "go to college" sure, but in the meantime you might be working 2 jobs, so you have no study time. The wage will be $15 shortly like it or not, then greater eventually until someone checks the inflation rate and changes how the system works. It's going to take a lot of work but it's GOING to happen.

          Comment


          • #85
            Uh, again, I literally moved with with almost nothing to my name to take a job at Wal-Mart. It was a rough go.

            Sometimes you gotta take a leap.

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