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TRUMP....Or, How Insane (or Great) is our President?

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  • micromind
    replied
    Originally posted by laferney Road kid View Post
    one of the campaign platforms I heard was that American business owners needed to stop selling industry/ business that they owned to foreign investors. That the wealth needed to stay in the US. I am a white collar worker, but due to health reasons of my wife, I needed to work a blue collar position for awhile. I was shocked at the work conditions, the 21 days in a row and the tasks given to the workers. It Was a non-union job so nothing that the workers could do to improve their status as production workers.. I researched the company and came to find out, that massive food conglomerate is secretive in its ownership, that it thrives on buying business from American owners who want to cash in their "chips" in order to escape the poverty of owning business. I had talked to workers who had formerly worked for the company under private ownership and said that wages were good and conditions were good. But once a faceless owner had the business, every aspect of working deteriorated.

    Private ownership of the business would have kept the wages above poverty level instead of profits going to conglomerates. Improved working conditions would have increased the bottom line and morale. Private ownership would have valued that workers need to spend time with their families rather than working 10 hours a day, seven days a week. Private ownership would have given work monetary work incentives.

    This company now has a constant employee retention program, always on craigslitst looking for workers. The folks that I worked along with that year, had to stay, they were already in the struggle of keeping alive and afraid that elsewhere was just as bad. Some of them were working two jobs..I do understand that in the 50s and 60s, men did work two jobs, one 40 hours a week, the other a job in their WW2 learned skill in the evenings or weekends at their leisure, and that is how they paid for their house, car, retirement. The working man and employer were working together to provide a better nation. Now the employer is all about the profit and bonus, broached here a lot when talking about the working conditions at Disneyland
    This is pretty much true across the board. The larger the company, the worse it treats the employees. They're not people anymore, they are nothing more than numbers now.

    Leave a comment:


  • micromind
    replied
    Originally posted by VintageMouse View Post

    Well, the ACA was actually a Heritage Foundation (conservative think-tank) idea originally. It's not the best solution, but people being denied affordable health coverage due to pre-existing conditions (to name just one of the provisions) is morally and ethicallty unacceptable. If we can come up with a better plan that doesn't result in people being denied coverage and/or going bankrupt, then let's do it.

    I hear you about the rich getting richer at the expense of the working class. What do we do about it?
    I agree completely.

    I don't have the answer but I do know that what we got is about as bad as it can get.

    Perhaps a serious tax on the rich would pay for at least some of the healthcare. Trouble is that in order to get to a position of being able to make policy and tax changes, you have to be one of the rich. No one will tax his own wealth........

    Taking a good hard look at every person on some sort of government disability program and making the ones who actually are able to work pull their own weight would very likely offset the cost of health care for a LOT of productive members of society.

    Leave a comment:


  • laferney Road kid
    replied
    one of the campaign platforms I heard was that American business owners needed to stop selling industry/ business that they owned to foreign investors. That the wealth needed to stay in the US. I am a white collar worker, but due to health reasons of my wife, I needed to work a blue collar position for awhile. I was shocked at the work conditions, the 21 days in a row and the tasks given to the workers. It Was a non-union job so nothing that the workers could do to improve their status as production workers.. I researched the company and came to find out, that massive food conglomerate is secretive in its ownership, that it thrives on buying business from American owners who want to cash in their "chips" in order to escape the poverty of owning business. I had talked to workers who had formerly worked for the company under private ownership and said that wages were good and conditions were good. But once a faceless owner had the business, every aspect of working deteriorated.

    Private ownership of the business would have kept the wages above poverty level instead of profits going to conglomerates. Improved working conditions would have increased the bottom line and morale. Private ownership would have valued that workers need to spend time with their families rather than working 10 hours a day, seven days a week. Private ownership would have given work monetary work incentives.

    This company now has a constant employee retention program, always on craigslitst looking for workers. The folks that I worked along with that year, had to stay, they were already in the struggle of keeping alive and afraid that elsewhere was just as bad. Some of them were working two jobs..I do understand that in the 50s and 60s, men did work two jobs, one 40 hours a week, the other a job in their WW2 learned skill in the evenings or weekends at their leisure, and that is how they paid for their house, car, retirement. The working man and employer were working together to provide a better nation. Now the employer is all about the profit and bonus, broached here a lot when talking about the working conditions at Disneyland

    Leave a comment:


  • VintageMouse
    replied
    Originally posted by micromind View Post

    The steep rate increases were obviously part of the grand plan that Obama, Reid and associates were going to ram on us. Their legacy....... They needed to portray the insurance companies as bad guys so they could be the good guys who came in to save the day with their 'affordable' health care act.

    What they failed to realize is that the American people do not like their choices to be made for them and their rebellion was to go to the Doctor as many times as possible. 'If I have to pay for this, I'm gonna get my moneys worth'. This caused insurance payouts to far exceed income leading to massive rate increases.

    Once again, the rich got richer at the expense of the working class.
    Well, the ACA was actually a Heritage Foundation (conservative think-tank) idea originally. It's not the best solution, but people being denied affordable health coverage due to pre-existing conditions (to name just one of the provisions) is morally and ethicallty unacceptable. If we can come up with a better plan that doesn't result in people being denied coverage and/or going bankrupt, then let's do it.

    I hear you about the rich getting richer at the expense of the working class. What do we do about it?

    Leave a comment:


  • micromind
    replied
    Originally posted by PanTheMan View Post

    So your beef is with the Insurance companies jacking up prices. That's not Obamacare- It has nothing to do with what is charged on the open market. in 2000 My wife and I paid about $250 a month for our Plan. By the beginning of 2009, it was over $1000. it was up to over $1200 by 2011, but then Obamacare kicked in and it dropped to $749. So you have your years off. The largest increases across the board happened BEFORE Obamacare came.
    The steep rate increases were obviously part of the grand plan that Obama, Reid and associates were going to ram on us. Their legacy....... They needed to portray the insurance companies as bad guys so they could be the good guys who came in to save the day with their 'affordable' health care act.

    What they failed to realize is that the American people do not like their choices to be made for them and their rebellion was to go to the Doctor as many times as possible. 'If I have to pay for this, I'm gonna get my moneys worth'. This caused insurance payouts to far exceed income leading to massive rate increases.

    Once again, the rich got richer at the expense of the working class.

    Leave a comment:


  • laferney Road kid
    replied
    massacre was in 1847, memorial erected in 1897....50 years.....1865....50 years later 1905,,,,,but the south was totality destroyed.... where as white settlers were reaping the benefits off of the land not destroyed......so yeah, mid 1900's seems about right.

    Leave a comment:


  • PanTheMan
    replied
    ON THIS PAST WEEK--- Many of the Memorials being taken down weren't even put up until the early to mid 1900's. A few confederate statues in the 1920's were paid for and dedicated by chapters of the KKK. Trumps dancing around the issue of Neo-Nazi's has more than exposed his feelings on the subject. And no- They are NOT Good people. When the crowd you are marching with chants against Jews and non whites and you don't leave that march immediately? Or you begin to chant with them? You are NOT a good person. Even if Trump says you are.

    While so many people who love Trump think he just showed up as a savior a couple years ago, he has been in the public eye since the late 70's. In interview after interview on talk show after talk show, he openly makes statements that show him to be a scum sucking hateful person. In his highly publicized divorces, and affairs- his comments have never changed. This is NOT a decent human being we have in the Oval Office. Time for the Trumpkins to face that OR be likewise labeled by the company they keep and continue to support.

    Leave a comment:


  • PanTheMan
    replied
    Originally posted by micromind View Post

    When I was about 30 or so, I began to plan for my retirement. Of course, way back then, my plans were pretty loose but the older I got, the more exact and realistic they became.

    I was shooting to be able to retire at 60 or 62, and I would have except for the 'affordable' health care act. Before the ACA, my health insurance would have run 200 - 250/month, which I planned for. Now that obama and his minions have rammed their 'signature' bill on us, the cost is more like 600-800.

    I'm 60. My dreams of being able to retire before 65 have been destroyed by a self-centered egoist bent on making a name for himself at any cost.
    So your beef is with the Insurance companies jacking up prices. That's not Obamacare- It has nothing to do with what is charged on the open market. in 2000 My wife and I paid about $250 a month for our Plan. By the beginning of 2009, it was over $1000. it was up to over $1200 by 2011, but then Obamacare kicked in and it dropped to $749. So you have your years off. The largest increases across the board happened BEFORE Obamacare came.

    Leave a comment:


  • laferney Road kid
    replied
    I am moving. the contents of a four bedroom home, two car garage, two large out buildings. I am moving into one those huge massive RVs you see on the road....those Greyhound type RVs. but I am too old for the responsibility, but it is mine. But to make sure that I take my breaks, I come to the computer, write, rest, hydrate, go back to moving. The Disneyland fourm here is way over my head, the other Disneyland site is way under me, so I went to a travel internet site that looked at Oregon .....about a week....today they censored me, wrote that ...in my words......I wasn't Jack Webb Sgt Joe Friday enough...all they wanted was the facts...not my anecdotes about hiking with my father on the very trail that folks asking questions wish to explore.

    So in order to keep my sanity, I have been rolling in my mind how to keep a civil discussion with you about what is happening in the US in your post. Then the light went off....that as teacher I rewrote history for my students. It has to do with the Whitman Massacre in Washington. I taught my students that measles was the reason for the plight of the First Nation and they had no other recourse. The cayuse, they were not savages, had abandoned some form of spirit worship and practice some Anglo traditions. But what do you do when you are lost and no where else to turn to protect your history, from the measles. The word massacre in not a good word choice to fully understand the history I told my students. And as I was tossing this around in my head while moving garbage to the truck, I thought, what does wiki have to say about this selective washing of history on my part.

    Leave a comment:


  • laferney Road kid
    replied
    I didn't want to give you the state name, in case it was harder to research.....it is private property and could be the rally point in the pacific northwest....just a site to have on the radar

    glorify the sins and horrors of the past

    how does this quote align with the West Point Graveyard

    should LIttle Big Horn site be torn up and no longer a public gathering location

    why is First Nation not asking to have statues of measles carriers to be destroyed?

    Thanksgiving honors the killing of First Nation

    Robert Byrd

    I put these talking points up.....because what is happening is selective washing out history.

    Leave a comment:


  • Meville
    replied
    The only thing I can find on google is a park bearing his name in Washington that has a confederate flag? If that's not it I assume it's one of the many statues that are hastily being removed or covered up?

    It's a super difficult situation, but I thought a parallel situation would be how the Germans dealt with the Nazi imagery after the war; clearly I was not the only one as there is a recent news story on Voxx.

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.vox....harlottesville


    An interesting quote that sumerizes why this is not simply a case of washing out history:

    'But unlike in Germany, where memorials to the victims of the Holocaust are erected on the ruins of Nazi buildings as a way to teach future generations about the sins and horrors of the past, most Confederate statues were designed to glorify the sins and horrors of the past.'


    Leave a comment:


  • laferney Road kid
    replied
    Meville.....keep an eye on Ridgefield jefferson davis memorial.......as an insight into researching of your question.....it now is in the spotlight.......

    Leave a comment:


  • Meville
    replied
    Your point is taken. And while I can't say that I fully understand the plight of an average middle class American, I will say that history doesn't have a great track record for when one group is marginalized by another group facing hard times.

    Espceially worse when their ring leader (and his kind) should be the target of their blame given that their companies are the ones who oxidized the rust belt in search of a better bonus.


    Leave a comment:


  • laferney Road kid
    replied
    business in downtown Little Bieurt provide jobs, they provide an art tax, they provide for cultural growth....without jobs, art and cultural understanding....a city is destroyed. so that is the context I use to be neutral in this conversation here about the trump community around me, watching weekly the destruction on TV.

    conservative religious....that is not a culture found nation wide... .it is in the Bible Belt,,,,the same folks who defeated Mitt Rommeny.. So I cannot address the conservative religious because no one in my neighborhood goes to church. The republicans condemning the president are trying to keep their jobs.

    alt-righters, as defined by wiki, does not define MOST as you have used it for trump supporters. Alt-righters does not define my neighborhood. What my neighbors want is the choice to own a gun, everyone be responsible for their own health care program, that children become the responsibility of the church, the charity or even their parents, but not someone at the check-out stand of a grocery store asking for school supplies money. and they don't want to support a person who used food stamps and is now buying a starbucks. Though that argument is now weak because the food stamp program has been really tweaked to where now food stamp eligibility is only two months a year.

    And yes, my neighborhood is Islamophobic. We are ignorant of who is paying for their apartment housing down the street. We are ignorant of who is teaching them English in the schools down the street. We are ignorant of what we see as counterproductive dressing of woman on the streets as they walk to the grocery stores.

    All we have of Islam is what we see on television.

    CBS news had a great feature story , actually the whole broadcast is worth watching about what is happening with Trump today.

    And then.....when the pirates controversy came up about the slavery scene....and I suggested that we should remove a famous national painting of founding forefathers if we are to go on with that line of thinking...no one rose up to support ...and now.....that line of thinking about slavery is spreading all the way to George Washington.

    no one, not even I as an educator, saw Thomas Jefferson as brutal slave owner, a rapist and responsible for the demise of the First Nation people. so what is happening across the nation, as represented by today, is random revisionism of history, and it is rudderless....hence today.

    Leave a comment:


  • Meville
    replied
    Destroy cities across America? You speak of being neutral, but your verbiage suggests otherwise.

    I should have also been more clear, even the most conservative religious republican condemns racisim, these are the base I'm speaking of; his republican base. However by your statement it would seem that most Trump supporters are, at the core, alt-righters.
    Last edited by Meville; 08-15-2017, 05:56 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • laferney Road kid
    replied
    it actually encourages the trump base because he does not speak like a politician. The Trump base has been quiet for a long time, watching the other side destroy cities across america, As reported in the media, the New other side is now speaking out, no wait, they tried to speak out peacefully, but their right was taken away, when the third side, the professional anarchist became involved. My son and his mother are professional anarchist, they thrive in Little Beirut , my neighborhood is the Trump base and they are worn out from having the burden of supporting the poor, as for me, I am a high school teacher, my values have been watered down by the responsibility that I have to every new citizen, I don't take a side, I just show both sides and let the student choose.

    Leave a comment:


  • Meville
    replied
    Does today's outburst change anything for his base?

    Leave a comment:


  • micromind
    replied
    Originally posted by PanTheMan View Post

    How So?
    When I was about 30 or so, I began to plan for my retirement. Of course, way back then, my plans were pretty loose but the older I got, the more exact and realistic they became.

    I was shooting to be able to retire at 60 or 62, and I would have except for the 'affordable' health care act. Before the ACA, my health insurance would have run 200 - 250/month, which I planned for. Now that obama and his minions have rammed their 'signature' bill on us, the cost is more like 600-800.

    I'm 60. My dreams of being able to retire before 65 have been destroyed by a self-centered egoist bent on making a name for himself at any cost.

    Leave a comment:


  • PanTheMan
    replied
    Originally posted by micromind View Post
    While I realize he isn't exactly perfect, I'll give him credit for at least one thing....he hasn't done anything to hurt me.

    Can't say that about the last administration..........they hurt me a LOT.
    How So?

    Leave a comment:


  • laferney Road kid
    replied
    .....or would we have ever found out that Congress is actually a small business.....endorsed by previous legislation and oval office. I thought they were elected officials, now I know why my senator lives in new york instead of oregon,...more business in New York.

    Leave a comment:

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